Aleister Crowley > Scarlet Women

Rose Kelly

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Alex_Bennett:
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

According to Crowley the dictation from 'Aiwas' came over his shoulder. So whoever was channelling was not Crowley himself, presumably it wasn't the hotel staff. When there were corrections to the script it was in Rose's handwriting. For instance, "The Five Pointed Star, with a Circle in the Middle, & the circle is Red." After "The shape of my star is", done by Aleister [Chapter 1 Verse 60 or page 19 in the script].

I think she was added not only to the Centennial Weiser Edition but in the Neptune Press limited edition, as for some time people had questioned exactly how the Cairo Working had been achieved without Rose's help. She was after all the one in communication with Horus and had set the Equinox of the Gods up under Horus's instruction. I think that the referring to Rose not being there, is merely a euphemism for her being in trance. I could be wrong perhaps but I doubt it and even if I were she still played more of a part than all of us Thelemites alive today, put together!

Alex

Love is the law, love under will.

Patriarch156:
The Neptune Press was made as far as I know under the authority of the O.T.O. and it's harmony with the Centennial Edition as far as the acknowledgement of reception goes should be thought of in light of that. I was informed by H.B. that the reason for inclusion of Rose was in recognition of her correcting the manuscript of AL as well as her work in the Cairo Working itself, not that he believes Rose was channelling Aiwaz behind Crowley's back.


--- Quote from: "Alex_Bennett" --- I think that the referring to Rose not being there, is merely a euphemism for her being in trance. I could be wrong perhaps but I doubt it and even if I were she still played more of a part than all of us Thelemites alive today, put together!.
--- End quote ---


The accounts I have read by Crowley put her in another room and Crowley himself seems to dispell any such notion of channelling. In fact he was at pains, after first noting it an interesting example of automatic writing (again not conducive to Rose being the channel), he was at pains at stressing that it was made by direct communication.

Why it is hard to believe that Aiwaz materialized (whether in his mind or person) and dictated the book to Crowley and simultanously believing the rest of the odd events that took place during the Cairo Working is beyond me.

That being said, as the first Scarlet Woman I agree that she did more than any other Thelemite alive today.

Alex_Bennett:
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I am glad that you agree with me that Rose was of the highest importance and that it is her handwriting that makes the corrections in the script of Liber AL. The purpose of this post and indeed thread is to broaden the understanding of Rose Kelly as a whole.

I find it odd that the mere suggestion that she had any part to play in the Cairo Working should stir up even slight venom though. I have looked a the diary entries for this period myself and as usual Crowley is deliberately misleading about the whole thing, to keep the mystique, as he does on many other occasions in his career. Don't get me wrong I respect him as a writer, magickian and even prophet. It's the smack addict, wife beater who abandoned all his children I have a small problem with (please don't apologise for him). By comparison Rose's dabble with alcoholism is not worth mentioning, that's all, if that is the cause of your dislike or at least lack of admiration for her.
Crowley himself gives Rose the accolade of a 'natural seer' and credits her with all that lead up to the reception of Liber AL, if not the reception itself. She is as much an author of Liber AL in my humble opinion and Crowley never claimed copyright for it.
Don't worry the Caliphate Ordo Templi Orientis (C.O.T.O.) though. If Rose did turn out to be the author (even channellers have copyright), we know she died in 1932 at the very latest and so the copyright expired last year.

Alex

Love is the law, love under will.

lashtal:

--- Quote from: "Alex_Bennett" ---It seems odd to me that Aleister, who after all didn't channel Liber AL as Rose did
--- End quote ---

As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Crowley's account is clear: Rose did not "channel" The Book Of The Law.


--- Quote from: "Alex_Bennett" ---plainly didn't even get along with the book for many years
--- End quote ---

It was actually a proud boast of his that he didn't "like" or "approve" of the Book but found himself forced to promote it as a result of experience and evidence. In any case, there's no record that I'm aware of that suggests that Rose found it an easier to "get along with it" so I'm unclear as to the point you're trying to make here.


--- Quote from: "Alex_Bennett" ---should get all the credit for it.
--- End quote ---

She's given "credit" in the Book itself, of course, and her participation in the process is acknowledged in every published account that I've read.


--- Quote from: "Alex_Bennett" ---At this years International Thelemic Symposium there was a call to revive Rose's profile along with many of the scarlet women and restore them as thelemic heroines.
--- End quote ---

Now, I'm very impressed that Rose tolerated Crowley for as long as she did but exactly what do you think she did that was "heroic"? What we do know of her life suggests that she was at least moderately foolish with her affections, met Crowley and married him on a whim, pointed out a stele in a museum and then drank herself into Colney Hatch. To "restore" her as a "thelemic heroine" would surely require far more information about her role in subsequent years than we actually possess.


--- Quote from: "Alex_Bennett" ---we actually know what happened to them and give them credit for what they achieved.
--- End quote ---

Agreed absolutely, and Hymenaeus Beta's editions of Crowley's works have tended to provide that information, as have recent biographies of AC, including that by Richard Kaczynski.


--- Quote from: "Alex_Bennett" ---According to Crowley the dictation from 'Aiwas' came over his shoulder. So whoever was channelling was not Crowley himself, presumably it wasn't the hotel staff.
--- End quote ---

The dictation by Aiwass (or Aiwaz, not "Aiwas") was in a voice described as "a rich tenor or baritone." Why choose to believe some parts of the account and not others? There's no real evidence for any of it, after all.


--- Quote from: "Alex_Bennett" ---I think that the referring to Rose not being there, is merely a euphemism for her being in trance. I could be wrong perhaps but I doubt it
--- End quote ---

But on what evidence do you base that assumption?

One thing we can say about Rose, who was committed by her family as the result of her alcoholism quite some time after her separation from Crowley, is that she inspired the rather beautiful "Rosa Decidua". For that and her involvement in the Cairo Working she deserves - and receives - due credit amongst Thelemites.

Horemakhet:

--- Quote from: "Patriarch156" ---The accounts I have read by Crowley put her in another room and Crowley himself seems to dispel any such notion of channelling. In fact he was at pains, after first noting it an interesting example of automatic writing (again not conducive to Rose being the channel), he was at pains at stressing that it was made by direct communication.
--- End quote ---


 ..indeed he was. AC returned to his memories of this Event in a clear & concise account on a few occasions afterwards, once his acknowledgment of the Book's importance became clear. My copy of ' The Equinox of the Gods' is thousands of miles away from me, at the moment, but I recall that the fullest account of it's "Reception", was given here.

 AC seems to have made a habit out of conferring the title of 'Scarlet Woman' & then stripping it away, sometimes as suddenly as it was given. It is probably no coincidence that the book itself, seems at first glance, to maybe even encouragethis behaviour. In the case of Leah Hirsig, this was to have a severely damaging effect. Cries of "What a Monster!", have been frequently heard, but I suppose that it could be said in his defence that he was 'working with a magickal formulae', & perhaps often found his own behaviour detestable.

 In the case of Rose, it seems certain that his account of those key days would have been altered had her subsequent downfall not coloured his view of Her. In retrospect, he viewed her as a weak, & sometimes pathetic human being. He also, in a backhanded way, blamed her for the death of their first child. (or at least did when writing the 'Hag', with LH as a scribe!)
All of this, obviously, under the weight of a heavy Grief, & perhaps a (gulp) secret Guilt.

 Now, I think that there is a wide difference between " Channelling", "Receiving", & being the 'Source', yet all 3 of these seem to have been necessary to allow this Book to manifest. - AC states that Rose was the one who "Channelled" the "Source" at it's inception. If Crowley was not 'in Love' with Rose, this would not have been possible. She was his original 'Scarlet Woman', & the Book itself alludes to this Formula : "Love is the law, love under Will" - It was AC's "Will" to be the Prophet of the New Age, & once the preliminary contact with those Forces, the "Source" of the transmission was established, then Crowley's HGA Aiwass was the Channel & the Voice that was necessary in this case.

 AC & Rose ( "Rose of the World!"), worked together to achieve this, though they did not really know what they were doing, at the time!(although they did in the bed, apparently :))
Sure, AC was a brilliant Magickian, but Rose was a natural Medium.

Beautiful!

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