The "self" and the Dweller on the threshold

[Karlir_Johanarnt]

correction:... copyright?

[lashtal]

It can't be that much text, and with reference, would it then be subject to copyright

For goodness sake, Karlir! Do you really not "get it"?

You solicited the provision of copyright-infringing material because you believe it to be too expensive - http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=56901#56901 - and I published a very clear warning:

This site must not be used to solicit copies of copyright material. Please read the Guidelines. There will be no further warnings.

You followed this up with a message to me and my reply made the situation even clearer:

---

K_J: Are you sure this matter will be subject to the copyright if the letters are shown with brief explanations?

LAShTAL: You requested the publication of material that you knew to be covered by copyright: that might be okay on some sites, but it's not okay on LAShTAL.COM.

K_J: It should be available to everyone.

LAShTAL: It is: you hand over some money and the owner provides you with the item you've paid for.

---

Within twenty minutes you've posted on the site two more times: once to lecture probably the country's foremost expert on AOS about … AOS (priceless, that was!) and again to remind everyone that you're looking for copyright infringing material.

Take a deep breath and think carefully about how foolish you're looking here. Give it a couple of days before posting on this site again. You'll be glad you did, honest…

[Karlir_Johanarnt]

I belive in the power of arguments, not authorities ...
This is my last letters on this forum
Hasta la vista

[bazelek]

And there was me thinking the 'power of argument' was the very definition of authority... :roll:

Thanks for the support Paul. It never ceases to amaze me, given all the Zos material that I have tried to make available over the years, that some individuals think they are still owed something and that I am dragging my feet... jeez.

[lashtal]

Respect to you, Bazelek, for all that you've done to promote the work of AOS.

[christibrany]

If you value something you will pay for it. Nough said.
Much love to all at Fulgur for their beautiful works which are a bibliophiles dream.

[einDoppelganger]

I think Robert raises some very valid problems with Karlir's interpretations. For example he points out the unlikeliness of Spare referencing Tantra when at the time there was precious little on the topic in English.

It seems to me Robert is going to great lengths to say Spare is open to interpretation which is why its tricky to try an apply set meanings to all his works or to try and conform it to a quantifiable system which can be "decoded" as it were.
I don't think Robert is being an elitist at all, he is merely engaging someone in a discussion on Spare.

S

PS Hi Karlir / Wellreadwellbred / FRSOLIS, nice to have you back...

[oneiros]

Why don't
you guys get the press running?

They did, back in 1998.

Where were you, bro' ?

o

[Noctifer]

For my two cents, Fr Solis, I can see what you mean regarding the tone of the 'welcome', and I'm glad someone said so. It is unnecessarily haughty and pretentious and leaves me slightly bewildered. Firstly, Robert Ansell is far from being the "foremost authority on Spare in the country"; Kenneth Grant (the only author alive who knew and worked with Spare personally, and who wrote the books re-published and published by Robert's company; there are also perhaps other contenders) is. Secondly, even if he was the "foremost expert", the account which he uses here is entitled "bazelek", not Robert Ansell, or Fulgur, so there is no way - unless you are part of a particular clique, or unless you have bothered with this forum for long enough, which obviously newcomers haven't, to learn as much. There is no reason why a "newcomer" to any forum needs to a) be discouraged from posting two posts in twenty minutes (that is a very slow rate of posting if you're trying to have a conversation with people in real time, and is actually a slow rate of posting, full-stop, where I come from, forum-wise); or b) be 'made a fool of' for not knowing something which there was in fact hardly any way for him to know.

On the other hand, I also think it is reasonable and perhaps even necessary for the webmaster to discourage solicitation of original copyrighted material by living authors, such as with the excellent and desirable book "Zos Speaks", which although expensive-ish, it isn't really, not if you really truly want it, it's under $200! I'm one of the least fiscally-endowed people I know and I have still coughed up positively indecent multiples of this figure for things I simply couldn't live without....

Best regards to all,
N.

[the_real_simon_iff]

93!

To me it always seemed that Karlir was highly enthusiastic - probably even fanatic - about his personal findings of an alleged code in Spare's art - to an extent that mirrored the insane fanatism of some of the "final" solutions to Liber ALs riddle. Most "patterns" and "symbols" and "mudras" and what not were not as clearly visible to other forum members as they were to him and when challenged about it it was mostly "to me it is clear" or "this is proof enough for me" and the like. Much like FRLSOLIS' "I'm sure Spare could have come across this material somehow- he must have been clever enough, or perhaps he 'intuited' some of it." or "For all I know, there may be something to decode." In short, these are - possibly interesting - speculations about the "AOS Code", nothing more. Bazelek - probably the foremost authority on Spare that indulges in public appearance - tried to point out why Karlir's position might not be as convincing as he thought it was. I myself wasn't convinced either and my own understanding of Spare tells me that a consistently and consciously designed code is the exact opposite of Spare's approach to art. But yep, Karlir is probably very clever about maths ... but for all I know he could also be a speed freak (I am not saying that he is).

As far as Karlir making a fool out of himself: He did so by his poor understanding of the "copyright case" and not because he did not know who was behind bazelek (although it was funny to read for those who knew). Karlir shares a university computer with wellreadwellbred, he should log in, check out the inter-library loaning system and search for a university library that holds the book. I can find quite a few (in Germany alone), why, they even have some of the original Carfax monographs in their holdings. It is really not that complicated to get this book. In fact, if you would try to expose the "AOS Code" convincingly you should be familiar with as much Spare material as possible, imho.

When I read through all those threads I feel Karlir was treated quite friendly on his numerous "lectures" about the "AOS code", and so I think FRLSOLIS' tirade against elitist behaviour of some members is inappropriate. There is no reason to defend Karlir here, because he wasn't attacked...

Love=Law
Lutz

[einDoppelganger]

If you read the forum before posting... especially in the Spare subforum the identity of "Bazelek" should be pretty obvious. I figured it out in a post or two when I joined. The problem is you need to be bothered to *read* the forums before jumping in the conversation.

In any case his identity didnt matter, Paul is the one who noted he was lecturing "the foremost authority." Robert was gracious and a little bewildered when it was implied he was unfamiliar with all Spare's work.

Anyway, the general irritation with the original poster extended beyond this thread. It was cumulative and as Lutz noted he did seem to be a sock puppet account.

Personally, I dont care if someone knows a Grant from an ant from a Hymenaeus or a pissant. My ill will toward the fellow didn't come from forum elitism, it was the fact he talked at length but never seemed to listen. I really find that irritating..

Welcome FRLSOLIS! It is good to have you round these parts.

[AEternitas]

I wouldn't mind seeing some more affordable editions of these books hitting the shelves, and quite frankly if the book has been out of print for more than five years on a limited run I'm going to swipe it off the internet before I pay an inflated collectors price. But that isn't the ppoint here is it?
 So far as concerns Spare, it may be possible to make some comparisons to other traditions, even ones that probably didn't have any influencce on Spare directly, but for the most part I think it is best to interpret the works of Zos in terms of Zos.

[lashtal]

FRLSOLIS:

1 - Please try to focus on the topics of the threads you're contributing to.

2 - Take a deep breath, calm down, and try not to see everyone here as either friend or enemy.

3 - If you want to continue posting here, don't send me emails accusing me of arrogance and of failing to recognise just how like Spare you are, if I could only see it.