Crowley's work toward the 9º=2º degree and Jupiter

[Shiva]

Shiva quoted : "The so called self-realization is the discovery for yourself and by yourself that there is no self to discover. That will be a very shocking thing because it's going to blast every nerve, every cell, even the cells in the marrow of your bones.” 

By this do you think he means that because we are all small atmans of the brahman , that there is no self? or is there no self for a different reason?

Although it's very simple ("there is no self"), UGK's description needs a bit of reading by one's self (that ultimately is not). Basically, he denies the existence of an Atman - after it, in it's turn, is destroyed. Nothing is nothing, and as soon as one compares Atman to Brahma, then there is something.

He gives us only one "grace," and that is that the knower has been destroyed, and it gives a sense of "peace" and that there is the perception of a "guiding intelligence" that one can never know. He also describes how he functions in that state, in detail, and his entire, ongoing dialog matches Crowley's description of an Ipsissimus.

You can get an overview at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U._G._Krishnamurti

And a link to http://the-natural-state.blogspot.com/2010/07/whatever-you-do-in-pursuit-of-truth-or.html was posted a while ago by Azidonis, which is 5 webpages long. Just read the first 1/3 of the first webpage and you'll have a good overview. I have a copy of that first 1/3 - it is 23 pages (more or less) of large (14 pt) type with a few comments by myself (which don't ultimately existum). After I review my comments, you (Chris) will get a copy because you're on my list. Maybe the US Govt allows you the use of a printer and some paper? Then you can decide for yourself what UGK means.

Why this emphasis on UGK within the Aleister Crowley Society? Because AC said, "There is also an account in a certain secret document to be published when propriety permits. Here it is only said this: The Ipsissimus is wholly free from all limitations soever, existing in the nature of all things without discriminations of quantity or quality between them. He has identified Being and not-Being and Becoming, action and non-action and tendency to action, with all other such triplicities, not distinguishing between them in respect of any conditions, or between any one thing and any other thing as to whether it is with or without conditions..." in One Star in Sight.

Well, this secret document to be published when propriety permits doesn't seem to have materialized. But it does seem like UGK has presented an account of that state.

Crowley also let us down when he didn't explain his comment about Jupiter and the Magus. At least there's no evidence that he did ... thus the topic of this thread.

[Swamiji]

Like I said before - knowing it intellectually, seeing it in trance (or during astral travels or whatever), and actually living it are all different things. Knowing who the Pope is, fantasizing about what the Pope is like in person, meeting the Pope in person, and actually being the Pope are all very different things.

I happen to feel fairly certain that Crowley didn't just have an intellectual idea of the Magister grade, but that his experience of it was in fact genuine. And that experience is the experience of having the entire self annihilated, every drop of blood poured into Babalon's cup, etc.  Which is, I feel fairly certain, akin to at least the Theraveda concept of enlightenment.

Thus, the "grades" of Magus (and Ipsissimus) correspond to stages of what Osho used to call "Beyond Enlightenment".

93

[Azidonis]

Like I said before - knowing it intellectually, seeing it in trance (or during astral travels or whatever), and actually living it are all different things. Knowing who the Pope is, fantasizing about what the Pope is like in person, meeting the Pope in person, and actually being the Pope are all very different things.

I happen to feel fairly certain that Crowley didn't just have an intellectual idea of the Magister grade, but that his experience of it was in fact genuine. And that experience is the experience of having the entire self annihilated, every drop of blood poured into Babalon's cup, etc.  Which is, I feel fairly certain, akin to at least the Theraveda concept of enlightenment.

You are mistaking the annihilation of the ego with the annihilation of the Atman. Remember, even in Liber 418 the "HGA comes back".

The self is annihilated on the way from Chokmah to Kether (the path of Aleph, the Fool).

Don't mistake the Path for the Way. The Magus is the Path. The Ipsissimus is the Way.

Thus, the "grades" of Magus (and Ipsissimus) correspond to stages of what Osho used to call "Beyond Enlightenment".

The Three Veils of Negative Existence - Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur.

The Theravada concept of enlightenment is the Arhant, which has no ties to samsara and will enter into parinirvana upon death. That is, totally free of self, and any conditions whatsoever.

Nirvana means "blowing out". Don't confuse this with "Nemo" (No-Man), for "Nemo comes forth from the Abyss", just as the Magus [in Crowley's case] was "cast into Jupiter". These things mean nothing to the Ipssisimus, or Tathagata (thus gone). Remember what the Buddha said to Ananda in the Surangama Sutra, "For the Buddhas, there is no Nirvana".

[Swamiji]

I'll just have to say that I don't agree, and I doubt Crowley would have either.  The problem stems from an idea that is very much a pre-enlightenment way of imagining things, that enlightenment is the end point.
What my own experience has shown me is that Enlightenment is in many ways the beginning of work (or work at an entirely different level, where, pardon the play on words, its "not about you" anymore), and that within what could be categorized as the A.'.A.'. system (which is after all, like the tree of life itself, just a kind of abstract roadmap or filing system), all three of the supernals and Ain/soph/aur represent stages of post-enlightenment work.

93

[Azidonis]

I'll just have to say that I don't agree, and I doubt Crowley would have either.  The problem stems from an idea that is very much a pre-enlightenment way of imagining things, that enlightenment is the end point.
What my own experience has shown me is that Enlightenment is in many ways the beginning of work (or work at an entirely different level, where, pardon the play on words, its "not about you" anymore), and that within what could be categorized as the A.'.A.'. system (which is after all, like the tree of life itself, just a kind of abstract roadmap or filing system), all three of the supernals and Ain/soph/aur represent stages of post-enlightenment work.

93

"The Ipsissimus is pre-eminently the Master of all modes of existence; that is, his being is entirely free from internal or external necessity. His work is to destroy all tendencies to construct or to cancel such necessities. He is the Master of the Law of Unsubstantiality (Anatta).

The Ipsissimus has no relation as such with any Being: He has no will in any direction, and no Consciousness of any kind involving duality, for in Him all is accomplished; as it is written "beyond the Word and the Fool, yea, beyond the Word and the Fool"."

- One Star in Sight

Anatta - "In Buddhism, the term anattā (Pāli) or anātman (Sanskrit: अनात्मन्) refers to the notion of "not-self" or the illusion of "self"."

Self, in this case, refers not to the "Higher Self" or HGA, but rather one's very Individuality. Remember, the formula of the Magister, to be used when the "HGA returns", is solve et coagula - solve and coagulate.

Of Nirvana - "The Pāli Canon also contains other perspectives on nirvāna; for one, it is linked to seeing the empty nature of all phenomena. It is also presented as a radical reordering of consciousness and unleashing of awareness. Scholar Herbert Guenther speculates that with nirvāṇa "the ideal personality, the true human being" becomes reality.

[This is the "Natural State" described by U.G. Krishnamurti.]

A liberated (enlightened) individual performs neutral actions (Pali: kiriya kamma) producing no fruit (vipaka) but nonetheless preserves a particular individual personality which is the result of the traces of his or her karmic heritage. The very fact that there is a psycho-physical substrate during the remainder of an arahant's lifetime shows the continuing effect of karma."

[...]

"When a person who has realized nirvāṇa dies, his death is referred as parinirvāṇa (Pali: parinibbana), his fully passing away, as his life was his last link to the cycle of death and rebirth (samsāra), and he will not be reborn again." - Consider pratityasamutpada, and how every moment contains a birth and death. Also consider what U.G. said about what is actually "alive". [Feel free to look it up.]

[ApeOfTheApeOfThot]

Crowley's mistake was going to the shunyata store on Jupiter. 
What a drag.
A little bit down the road is a gravity bordello you don't want to miss.
Real new-aeon e-ticket ride