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Magick - Gematria for Latin?
hawthornrussell - Feb 01, 2008 - 09:56 PM
Post subject: Gematria for Latin?
Can anyone answer whether Crowley ever worked out a Gematria system for Latin? And has any modern writer presented a gematria that could work with Latin? A google search doesnt seem to turn up much.
SteveCranmer - Feb 02, 2008 - 01:59 AM
Post subject: Re: Gematria for Latin?
hawthornrussell wrote: › Can anyone answer whether Crowley ever worked out a Gematria system for Latin? And has any modern writer presented a gematria that could work with Latin?

Jim Eshelman (and possibly Phyllis Seckler before him) worked out something called "Latin Simplex Qabalah" (or "Latin Qabalah Simplex?")

A=1, B=2, C=K=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=J=9, L=10, M=11, N=12, O=13, P=14, Q=15, R=16, S=17, T=18, U=V=W=19, X=20, Y=21, Z=22.

Note the fact that there are 22 unique values. I remember that DEUS=HOMO (see Liber OZ) and ADEPTUS=LIBERTAS=78 (I think), and that there were some interesting phrases that numbered to 93. In Jim's Mystical and Magical System of the AA, many striking correspondences for (mainly) the Latin Rosicrucian grade names (Practicus, Dominus Liminis, etc.) were given. There's more in those out-of-print COT/TOT periodicals, I think...

There's a decimal system out there, too (1-9, 10-90, 100-500) named after "Beatus of Liebana" and worked out by John Opsopaus (the latter not being a Thelemite, but a Greek/Roman paganism revivalist).

There should be some Google fodder in the above. (Try some targeted searches with site:heruraha.net in your query)

Steve

Edit: Just noticed that, as of right now, you've got 333 posts and I've got 44. Choronzon, meet Horus! Smile
hawthornrussell - Feb 02, 2008 - 06:19 PM
Post subject:
Thanks for your info Steve.
suti - Feb 02, 2008 - 08:29 PM
Post subject: Re: Gematria for Latin?
That actually came from Paul Foster Case (the source for Jim). It has some interesting correspondences and is well worth looking into.

SteveCranmer wrote: ›
hawthornrussell wrote: › Can anyone answer whether Crowley ever worked out a Gematria system for Latin? And has any modern writer presented a gematria that could work with Latin?

Jim Eshelman (and possibly Phyllis Seckler before him) worked out something called "Latin Simplex Qabalah" (or "Latin Qabalah Simplex?")

A=1, B=2, C=K=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=J=9, L=10, M=11, N=12, O=13, P=14, Q=15, R=16, S=17, T=18, U=V=W=19, X=20, Y=21, Z=22.

Note the fact that there are 22 unique values. I remember that DEUS=HOMO (see Liber OZ) and ADEPTUS=LIBERTAS=78 (I think), and that there were some interesting phrases that numbered to 93. In Jim's Mystical and Magical System of the AA, many striking correspondences for (mainly) the Latin Rosicrucian grade names (Practicus, Dominus Liminis, etc.) were given. There's more in those out-of-print COT/TOT periodicals, I think...

There's a decimal system out there, too (1-9, 10-90, 100-500) named after "Beatus of Liebana" and worked out by John Opsopaus (the latter not being a Thelemite, but a Greek/Roman paganism revivalist).

There should be some Google fodder in the above. (Try some targeted searches with site:heruraha.net in your query)

Steve

Edit: Just noticed that, as of right now, you've got 333 posts and I've got 44. Choronzon, meet Horus! Smile
CosmicSpice - Feb 02, 2008 - 09:33 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: Gematria for Latin?
I don't recall Crowley mentioning anything about Latin Gematria, or any modern author. But Agrippa has a Latin gematria code in his Three Books of Occult Philosophy, Book II: chapter xx.

http://www.masoncode.com/Latin%20Gematria.htm

But since the Latin alphabet resembles closely to our English alphabet, I prefer to use the new English gematria created by David Cherubim, especially to record my own important words of English and words that have popped up in our Language since Crowley's day of age.
Wizardiaoan - May 03, 2008 - 01:32 AM
Post subject:
Hi All,

444

I've been trying to crack the Latin code off & on for perhaps a decade--and having just seemed to have arrived at "It", I figured I could try to write a briefing. This for the correct Key to Latin is of a power hitherto unknown in reality: for many do not know the True Power of Alchemy, & thus its Latin Philosophical terminology. I am in vast awe of Latin myself. ALCHIMIA EST QVINTESSENTIA VITAE!

Anyway here is the short of it: yes, Cabala Simplex looks pretty cool at first, but quickly creates the "chaos confusio" upon use. This for the number letter string I--P, or 10-17, is absolutely left pristine & unchanged from Hebrew, through Greek, & into Latin, except for 15, which is S or X. So to assume that Latin now begins to number K as 10 as Virgo skews that whole chain of correspondence up.

I realized that Latin was far too strongly Greek (or Etruscan) based to have the Simplex Code as the dominant one. I liked my 1-22 Greek based Latin code, which kept the pristine historic attributions, best:

~1-22 straight Greek-based Latin~

1. A
2. B
3. G
4. D
5. E
6. F
7. Z
8. H
9. --
10. I
11-20. K
12-30. L
13-40. M
14-50. N
15-60. X
16-70. O
17-80. P
18-90. Q
19-100. R
20-200. S
21-300. T
22-400. V

This is pretty powerful, & what I was using until recently. One weakness in this is I had to put X as 15, when it is said that the Latin X was actually modelled on Chi rather than Xi.

Moving on, my breakthrough came when I finally accepted that Latin must have 24 letters with Z as its 24th to make AZOTh = 1225. I had had success with the Order above, & was willing to sacrifice this ancient alchemic Formula. But in the last I found they could both be united!

So here I posit:


~THE TRUE CODE OF LATIN~

1. A
2. B
3. C
4. D
5. E
6. F
7. G
8. H
9. --
10. I (J)
11-20. K
12-30. L
13-40. M
14-50. N
15-60. --
16-70. O
17-80. P
18-90. Q
19-100. R
20-200. S
21-300. T
22-400. V (Y, W)
23-500. X
24-600. Z

Disregarding all other Grammatometric correspondences, the esoteric proof that was let known to me is that the word PHOENIX = 93 when transferred in both Latin & Greek:

PHOENIX = 93 in Latin (17 + 8 + 16 + 5 + 14 + 10 + 23)
PhOENIX = 93 in Greek (23 + 26 + 5 + 14 + 10 + 15).

A few results are MVSTERIVM CONIVNCTIONIS = 318 = ThHTA. One of the most Potent Words in Alchemy is HVDRARGVRVM = 156 & 1560. Focusing on the Vesica Pisces in Binah, perhaps taking a bath or other absolvtio, & focusing on the Water Mysteries of the entire Piscean Dove Christ Peace Current of the last aeon is amazing. PAX REGIS!

49 as Venus is well defined as FEMINA, LVNA, & CALIX; also LVX is here (implied as the ray jetting from the womb). LVX as Light = 930, Light here being seen as the manifestation of the Magickal 93 Current into manifestation.

93 = both GNOSIS & SVNALLAGH in Serial Greek, the latter meaning change, notably intercourse. That 93 = PHOENIX, there is a general Mystery of the Reddening of the PHOENIX with this, & thus the last stage.

P.S. This code unlocks all Latin. It will not unlock number harmonies put into a text by an alchemist intentionally using Simplex obviously however...

323

TVRANNIS REX
4774
SteveCranmer - May 04, 2008 - 01:01 AM
Post subject:
Interesting, but...
Wizardiaoan wrote: › PhOENIX = 93 in Greek (23 + 26 + 5 + 14 + 10 + 15).

This isn't standard Greek gematria/isopsephia. You mentioned "serial Greek," though, which I think I can figure out from your Latin table: i.e., just keep counting by ones when the decimal system increments by 10s or 100s.

But is there any evidence of Greeks ever using a serial system?

Steve
Anticredos - May 04, 2008 - 10:24 AM
Post subject:
No idea about Crowley, but Latin numerological systems are quite common, especially among some of the European cabalists and alchemists of the Renaissance. Off the top of my head:

Pantheus uses A=1...Z=23 in his Voarchadumia (and also has Thelima [sic] as an epithet of Sulphur!).

Agrippa, Occ. Phil. II.xx has the Roman alphabet A=1...Z=500.

Dee may also have done some work in this area, but his concern with the Latin alphabet seems more to do with the shape of the letters than the numbers (see Monas XVI).

Also in the popular fortune telling books of the 16th/17th centuries the "Wheel of Pythagoras" often occurs - a divinatory device that uses seemingly random number assignations to to the Roman alphabet (values between 2 and 28, IIRC)
Wizardiaoan - May 04, 2008 - 07:59 PM
Post subject:
Hi Steve,

There is some evidence of Homeric Greek, but I don't like it in that it is only 24 based, & it really skews the 26-fold order the Metric (1-800) standard code Greek is based on.

There is a tendency of some to use a 1-24 Serial Greek & a 1-800 Metric Greek, which is inconsistent, as 24 does not equal 800, 26 = 800.

To use only the Metric code is really only to know half the glory of those languages, the Serial & Metric being the 2 most potent. You would never know GNOSIS itself = 93 for instance.


4774
revealer - May 05, 2008 - 05:11 PM
Post subject: Re: Gematria for Latin?
suti wrote: › That actually came from Paul Foster Case (the source for Jim). It has some interesting correspondences and is well worth looking into.


93 all,

For those who are interested, the table of Latin correspondences appears in Chapter IV of Case's, "The True and Invisible Rosicrucian Order." I agree, it's very worthy of investigation.

93 93/93

David Shoemaker
Walterfive - May 06, 2008 - 02:25 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: Gematria for Latin?
Fascinating topic here folks!!! These are the kinds of discussions I came here for!

I'll be printing out that 2nd Table for future reference, Wizardiaoan!

Just a fly on the wall for this one,

Walter Five
SteveCranmer - May 08, 2008 - 02:19 PM
Post subject: Re: Gematria for Latin?
revealer wrote: › For those who are interested, the table of Latin correspondences appears in Chapter IV of Case's, "The True and Invisible Rosicrucian Order." I agree, it's very worthy of investigation.

Thanks, David. I've only had that book for, what, 18 years now?, and I always seemed to skip over that table and its attendant text. Embarassed

Glad you're here. Coincidentally, I just had a TCTC podcast with your interview about the Psychology Guild in my CD player yesterday.

Steve
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