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Teachers, Disciples and Students, Friends and Enemies - Outside the Circles of Time - update
MichaelStaley - Feb 21, 2008 - 12:07 PM
Post subject: Outside the Circles of Time - update
This republication has taken somewhat longer to prepare than originally envisaged, but is now almost ready to go to the printers for publication at the end of March. Once it has gone to press, we'll be sending out flyers to all on our mailing list, detailing the republication and inviting orders ahead of publication.
The text has been reset, and the section of plates has been expanded from 16 to 20 pages. Some of the artwork reproduced in the 1980 edition is now in colour, and there is in addition some previously unpublished artwork by Steffi Grant. There are also illustrated endpapers. As with all our titles, as well as the standard edition there will be a limited, deluxe edition.
Should anyone wish to be placed on our mailing list, and thus be subject to our fawning solicitations, please email us at:
starfire.books@btinternet.com
or, if you prefer putting pen to paper:
Stafire Publishing Ltd.,
BCM Starfire,
London WC1N 3XX.
Best wishes,
Michael.
ErichZann333 - Feb 21, 2008 - 02:33 PM
Post subject: RE: Outside the Circles of Time - update
Thank you for this excellent news Michael.
Been waiting a while for this one.
Some of the artwork from 80's edition in colour? Previously unpublished artwork by Steffi? Oh yeah...yummy
DNA - Feb 21, 2008 - 03:57 PM
Post subject: RE: Outside the Circles of Time - update
Excellent news.....been waiting a long time!
Camlion - Feb 23, 2008 - 01:16 AM
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93 Mick,
Congratulations on the publishing, but there goes the value of my 'rare' 1980 edition! 
93 93/93
Camlion
jack93 - Feb 24, 2008 - 07:52 PM
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Great news. Been after it since 1993. Must remember to practice that Bibliophiliac Siddhi 
Baphomet111 - Mar 01, 2008 - 09:09 PM
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great news!
Walterfive - Mar 11, 2008 - 03:50 PM
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Very cool! I've been waiting for this one!!!
Johnny - Mar 20, 2008 - 08:26 AM
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Dear Michael,
Wonderful news! I looking forward to receive the new edition of "Outside the Circles of Time", when my old Muller-copy has become quiet "yellow" from all the Qliphotic slime its seems to have attract over the years! An interesting work indeed, remembering a summer when me an my mother was traveling trough Sweden with an old broken car and the only book I had to read was Grant´s Typhonian Gnosis; I memorable journey indeed. Mr. Grants reference to Michael Bertiaux thoughts on abbé Boullan really introduce me to works as: Joanny Bricaud´s - L´abbé Boullan - sa vie, sa doctrine et ses pratiques magiques (1927).
Fraternally,
J. Jakobsson
Walterfive - Mar 20, 2008 - 04:03 PM
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Just got confirmation on my copies (one of the 1389 regular copies, and one of the 111 Limited Ed). I reccomend contacting them ASAP at starfire.books@btinternet.com to confirm that the edition you want is still avialable, and paying by Paypal, that seems to be the quickest way to guarantee you'll get one or the other (or both).
And as there's only 1500 copies of this edition available, it'll sell out quick. I doubt if it will affect the price of your 1980 first ed. much, or for long, Camlion!
uranus - Mar 23, 2008 - 04:55 PM
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What does the price come out to in American dollars?
Camlion - Mar 23, 2008 - 06:36 PM
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93 Walterfive'
Walterfive wrote: › Just got confirmation on my copies (one of the 1389 regular copies, and one of the 111 Limited Ed). I reccomend contacting them ASAP at
starfire.books@btinternet.com to confirm that the edition you want is still avialable, and paying by Paypal, that seems to be the quickest way to guarantee you'll get one or the other (or both).
And as there's only 1500 copies of this edition available, it'll sell out quick. I doubt if it will affect the price of your 1980 first ed. much, or for long, Camlion!
Good news for me! But I do wonder why so small an edition. It would seem that the demand would higher than that. Mick?
93 93/93
Camlion
MichaelStaley - Mar 23, 2008 - 08:02 PM
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It's a very good question, Camlion; thank you for asking it, and giving me the opportunity of responding.
Firstly, I think that you might be overestimating demand. Beyond the Mauve Zone and The Ninth Arch were published in an edition of 1000 each, and took several years to go out of print. Pre-publication orders of Outside the Circles of Time are healthier than either titles, but I still think that an edition of 1500 will remain in print for a few years to come. Should the edition sell out fast than envisaged, then I have the typeset files and can commission a reprint. I will lose a bit due to the economies of scale, but not a great deal.
Ours is, to be honest, a small pond in terms of demand. Were it not so, then major publishers would be competing for these titles. As it is, they are left for us small run publishers, which I personally am very glad about because I do not think that a major publisher would pay quite as much attention to detail.
Needless to say, Camlion, I would be utterly delighted to be proved wrong with the edition selling out in six months. It would, as Clint might have said, make my day.
Best wishes,
Mick.
lashtal - Mar 23, 2008 - 08:07 PM
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uranus wrote: › What does the price come out to in American dollars?
http://www.xe.com
Camlion - Mar 23, 2008 - 10:59 PM
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I certainly wish you well with it, Mick.
Walterfive - Mar 23, 2008 - 11:33 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: ›
Firstly, I think that you might be overestimating demand. Beyond the Mauve Zone and The Ninth Arch were published in an edition of 1000 each, and took several years to go out of print.
(snip)
Needless to say, Camlion, I would be utterly delighted to be proved wrong with the edition selling out in six months. It would, as Clint might have said, make my day.
Perhaps we might be overestimating demand. But I didn't find either Beyond the Mauve Zone or The Ninth Arch to be one-half (or less) the book Outside the Circles of Time is. I don't don't own either one of those titles, and I happily let my ex-wife keep Hecate's Cauldron (as not to break up her set) in our property division.
Frankly, I'd given up on Mr. Grant as a writer for over a decade precisely because of the titles you mention (along with Hecate's Cauldron), although Zos Speaks - Encounters With Austin Osman Spare and more recently Hidden Lore, Hermetic Glyphs have forced me to revise my opinion. Zos Speaks is the book we were waiting for Mr. Grant to write since the conclusion of the *first* Typhonian Trilogy, and the new edition of Hidden Lore is such an expansion of the original Carfax Monographs edition in 1989 (which I proudly own) that it scarcely can be considered a reprint, IMNSHO. My only complaint was that the illustrations were printed on the page, instead of having been tipped-in (or pasted in) plates as they were in the 1st Ed., and that the metallic golds and silvers were not as shiny and vibrant as in the 1st Ed. Small points compared the excellent paper quality, binding, and especially the expanded content.
Here's hoping your "day" is "made!" You can't reprint the next edition fast enough for me! 
MichaelStaley - Mar 24, 2008 - 01:45 PM
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It's largely a matter of taste, Walterfive. My favourite Grant is the final trilogy - Outer Gateways, Beyond the Mauve Zone, and The Ninth Arch - and I consider that Outside the Circles of Time paves the way for this final trilogy.
When Circles first came out in 1980, I didn't like it at all. At that time I considered Grant's best work to be The Magical Revival and Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God. It remained my opinion until the late 1980s, when I was asked to write a one-page introduction or forward to the Statement on Lam that was due to be published in the third issue of Starfire. Whlist following up the index entries for Lam in the various volumes, I would come across passages in Circles which I found inspirational, and made me wonder (actually, my mind boggled) at my earlier dismissal of the book. Across the intervening years, my own magical and mystical experiences meant that these passages now fell onto fertile soil. As a matter of interest, it's always great to read again a book which you last read several years ago, and understand things that were incomprehensible before. It's my experience with mystical and magical work that one's understanding or insight is constantly changing - the old Maoist notion of permanent revolution springs to mind.
The next republication will be The Magical Revival, a projected publication date of which will be set before too much longer. Thank for your good wishes, which are much appreciated.
Best wishes,
Michael.
Walterfive - Mar 24, 2008 - 04:57 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: › It's largely a matter of taste, Walterfive.
Oh, ENTIRELY a matter of taste! 
MichaelStaley wrote: › My favourite Grant is the final trilogy - Outer Gateways, Beyond the Mauve Zone, and The Ninth Arch - and I consider that Outside the Circles of Time paves the way for this final trilogy.
Yes, I can see how you might be of that opinion that it paves the way for them. I found much in them to be an elaboration on on Outside the Circles of Time but some of the matters he relates are rather more fantastic than I find credible, and if some of those workings he related as occurring in the 50's *actually* occurred, I wondered why he didn't mention them earlier somewhere in his first six books... And frankly, (tongue in cheek here) if one of *my* Priestesses' souls was devoured by a tentacled creature from the Mauve Zone, I don't think I'd call the working 'a success.' l
MichaelStaley wrote: › When Circles first came out in 1980, I didn't like it at all. At that time I considered Grant's best work to be The Magical Revival and Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God. It remained my opinion until the late 1980s, when I was asked to write a one-page introduction or forward to the Statement on Lam that was due to be published in the third issue of Starfire. Whlist following up the index entries for Lam in the various volumes, I would come across passages in Circles which I found inspirational, and made me wonder (actually, my mind boggled) at my earlier dismissal of the book.
That *very* subject (about LAM) is what makes it such an important book, IMNSHO. Frankly, I think that Mr. Grant's revelations concerning LAM, Enochian "Angels" and the Greys are the most important part of his Gnosis, and will have the greatest impact of all of his work to future generations. It's certainly the aspect of his work that's had the greatest impact on several friends/writers I know, and the greatest impact on me, personally.
So I'm looking forward to re-reading it. I'll certainly keep your respected opinions in mind when I do.
MichaelStaley wrote: › Across the intervening years, my own magical and mystical experiences meant that these passages now fell onto fertile soil. As a matter of interest, it's always great to read again a book which you last read several years ago, and understand things that were incomprehensible before. It's my experience with mystical and magical work that one's understanding or insight is constantly changing - the old Maoist notion of permanent revolution springs to mind.
The next republication will be The Magical Revival, a projected publication date of which will be set before too much longer. Thank for your good wishes, which are much appreciated.
Excellent! Looking forward to that one! I expect that one will sell out very quickly! My ex-wife got all of Mr. Grant's works in our divorce settlement, and that's another volume that needs replacing, I've been making "do" with a PDF File print-out of it until I could locate a copy of the reprint (in any condition) for under $70. Been looking for 4 years now, and no luck so far... so I'll be perfectly happy to purchase a couple of copies from you instead! I trust there'll be a limited edition? :drool:
And I completely agree with you that one's understanding and insight is constantly changing (or *should be* if one is to be mentally healthy). I pointed out to a friend of mine just last week that if one has the same opinions at age 40 that one had at age 20, one was probably suffering from arrested development, and stunted intellectual and emotional growth.
A real pleasure chatting with you, Mick. Keep up the Great Work!
Camlion - Mar 25, 2008 - 11:42 PM
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93 Walterfive,
When I first read 'Circles,' which was a very long time ago now, I read it all in one sitting. This was certainly exceeding the recommended dosage! It is the best of the lot, IMO.
I have never lost a valued book to a divorce settlement, I've had two, so far; sooner the other property than the books.
93 93/93
Camlion
uranus - Mar 26, 2008 - 01:16 PM
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lashtal wrote: ›
uranus wrote: › What does the price come out to in American dollars?
http://www.xe.com
Thanks Paul, I appreciate that!!!
Walterfive - Mar 26, 2008 - 02:14 PM
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Camlion wrote: › 93 Walterfive,
When I first read 'Circles,' which was a very long time ago now, I read it all in one sitting. This was certainly exceeding the recommended dosage! It is the best of the lot, IMO.
I have never lost a valued book to a divorce settlement, I've had two, so far; sooner the other property than the books.
A magician after my own heart!
Ah, but you've probably never been married to a previously widowed Scarlet Woman... the Typhonian books were her late husband's, not joint property.
Besides, he was an immensely talented Magician, not a man I'd want to piss off, even after his Greater Feast! 
You read it all in one setting? *Definitely* exceeding reccomended dosage!!
MichaelStaley - Apr 11, 2008 - 02:01 PM
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There are now no more deluxes of Outside the Circles of Time available. The last one was reserved this morning.
Demand for this new edition - both standard and deluxe - has been very brisk. You've made an old man very happy. KG's pleased as well.
Walterfive - Apr 11, 2008 - 02:22 PM
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Hah! I *knew* it!! That's GREAT news!!! I'm sure I speak for all (well, most anyway) when I wish you the heartiest of congratulations in this effort, and look forward to future reprints with equal enthusiasm. Keep 'em comin'!!!
Fr. Walter Five
Arok - Apr 11, 2008 - 03:47 PM
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I look forward to receive and read the book. I can barely wait!
Sincerely yours,
J. Elwing
bazelek - Apr 11, 2008 - 05:59 PM
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Walterfive wrote: › ...the new edition of Hidden Lore is such an expansion of the original Carfax Monographs edition in 1989 (which I proudly own) that it scarcely can be considered a reprint, IMNSHO. My only complaint was that the illustrations were printed on the page, instead of having been tipped-in (or pasted in) plates as they were in the 1st Ed., and that the metallic golds and silvers were not as shiny and vibrant as in the 1st Ed. Small points compared the excellent paper quality, binding, and especially the expanded content...
Thanks for the kind comments WalterFive.
Curiously, you might be interested to know I had protracted exchanges with Steffi over the issue of tipped-in plates for the new edition of Hidden Lore. Steffi was very keen for them, whilst I was not. The original Carfax Monographs were all tipped-in plates, due to the fact they were hand-made and the card covers were coloured and therefore did not offer the right background for printed images.
The Skoob edition kept with the tradition of tipped-in plates for another reason - it was cheaper then to print the colour seperately. I argued this is fine if you have 10 plates, but when you have 30+ illustrations it becomes a problem of another order, because we are talking about glueing (by hand!) tens of thousands of individual plates - an absolute nightmare from a production standpoint.
Rather than face this I decided to increase the budget and print the entire book in colour. Due to improvements in repro methods (and the fact I persuaded Kenneth and Steffi to allow us to shoot transparencies from the original artwork) the result is a book with plates that almost exactly match the source material. Indeed, the gold and silver you mention is in fact quite subtle on the original artwork. I think also that the Skoob edition was printed in four colours, whereas we opted for six, so that also has an impact on subtlety and accuracy of reproduction. I think it is the first time a book in this genre has been printed in six-colours, but I am happy to be corrected on this point.
Like everyone else, I am very much looking forward to the new edition of Circles...
bazelek
Walterfive - Apr 11, 2008 - 10:30 PM
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You're quite welcome, Bazelek! I'm always fascinated to learn points like this about specific editions (particularly when I own them; it gives me more to brag about! ); Not only are these points interesting to bibliophiles, but it verifies what I already knew: that you good folks at Fulgur aren't merely slapping together some "product" (speaking of "slapped together", last year's FQ Classics edition of "The Writings of Austin Osman Spare" immediately comes to mind-- they didn't even have the title printed on the spine!.)
Additionally it also tells me that you're involving the authors in the production side of the material, considering their input, and that you're not adverse to increasing your budget for better reproduction and production values. Keep up the Great Work!
Thanks for speaking up, it never ceases to amaze me who's hanging out around here.
moyal - Apr 25, 2008 - 03:21 PM
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Will the number in the deluxe be analog with the number of order of that copy...?
MichaelStaley - Apr 25, 2008 - 03:45 PM
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moyal wrote: › Will the number in the deluxe be analog with the number of order of that copy...?
By and large, yes. There are a few exceptions. Some long-standing subscribers have specific numbers reserved for them - 13, 31, 93, 111, etc; on other occasions, it might be that someone reserves a copy, changes their mind, and thus the copy goes to someone else. Otherwise, allocation reflects the order in which reservations are received.
Best wishes,
Michael.
moyal - Apr 25, 2008 - 05:48 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: › ... have specific numbers reserved for them - 13, 31, 93, 111, etc;
Schade, no chance to get a lucky catch...
But it's fair to give it away to VIPs. Better then hoarding them...
Walterfive - Apr 25, 2008 - 09:07 PM
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Right? The rest of us will have to make do with a merely signed and numbered copy.
Anxiously awaiting mine,
Walter Five
OKontrair - Apr 25, 2008 - 09:33 PM
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So anyone hoping for rarity then should try and get a blank one?
MichaelStaley - May 01, 2008 - 03:48 PM
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This book is still hovering just outside the circles of time. However, production is well advanced albeit running a little later than anticipated, and so entry into our space-time continuum is tantalisingly close. The standard is now scheduled for delivery to the gothic turrets of Starfire Publishing by mid-May. Specialist binding of the deluxes will take up to another month.
All orders for the standard will be despatched within two or three days of my receiving them.
Set the controls for the heart of the sun . . .
Best wishes,
Michael.
Walterfive - May 01, 2008 - 05:09 PM
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Thanks for that update, Micheal, I've been haunting my P.O. in anticipation... guess I'll hold off breating down the back of their necks...
lashtal - May 01, 2008 - 06:40 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: › The standard is now scheduled for delivery to the gothic turrets of Starfire Publishing by mid-May. Specialist binding of the deluxes will take up to another month.
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
-- Douglas Adams English humorist & science fiction novelist (1952 - 2001)
MichaelStaley - May 01, 2008 - 10:55 PM
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Shifting, dynamic - alivelines!
lashtal - May 01, 2008 - 11:01 PM
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I just *know* that it'll be worth the wait.
jcyn - May 02, 2008 - 03:59 AM
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Mr. Staley:
Thanks for the update, it has assuaged my anxiety ..'tis money well spent...and worth the wait.
?42
oneiros - May 02, 2008 - 11:44 AM
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Quote: › My only complaint was that the illustrations were printed on the page, instead of having been tipped-in (or pasted in) plates as they were in the 1st Ed., and that the metallic golds and silvers were not as shiny and vibrant as in the 1st Ed.
I'm surprised you say that, because the Skoob edition colour plates were very cheap and cheerful (especially when compared with the crisply defined pics in the Fulgur version). Most likely reason they were tipped-in was not for reasons of style, but to keep costs down by not printing the whole book as a colour job.
o
MichaelStaley - May 02, 2008 - 12:21 PM
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oneiros wrote: › I'm surprised you say that, because the Skoob edition colour plates were very cheap and cheerful (especially when compared with the crisply defined pics in the Fulgur version). Most likely reason they were tipped-in was not for reasons of style, but to keep costs down by not printing the whole book as a colour job.
That's not so. When Skoob produced the book they used tipped-in plates because that's how Steffi Grant wanted them. With many more illustrations in the Fulgur expanded edition, tipped-in plates became simply less practical.
Doubtless the plates in the Skoob edition are not reproduced to the same standard as in the Fulgur edition, due in no small part to more modern printing techniques. However, I don't regard the plates in the Skoob edition as being "cheap and cheerful"; I thought they looked good and were done with care. No matter how good the Fulgur edition is, there's no need to denigrate the Skoob edition I would have thought.
Best wishes,
Michael Phineas.
moyal - May 02, 2008 - 12:51 PM
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Would You give us a list about the numbers "out of order" of the deluxes?
Just for "qabalistic interrest"?
MichaelStaley - May 02, 2008 - 01:08 PM
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moyal wrote: › Would You give us a list about the numbers "out of order" of the deluxes?
Just for "qabalistic interrest"?
No. I have other, rather more pressing things to do with my time, thanks.
Best wishes,
Michael.
moyal - May 02, 2008 - 01:26 PM
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Whould it be *THAT* hard?
I just want to "play" with my number!
But to do that, I need some "grounding"... 
Best wishes!
Michael
JohnS - May 02, 2008 - 05:14 PM
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Wot's 'tipped in ' then ? - Selotape ??
MichaelStaley - May 02, 2008 - 05:35 PM
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JohnS wrote: › Wot's 'tipped in ' then ? - Selotape ??
The illustration is printed separately and then attached to the required surface with a line of adhesive such as glue, usually to the reverse top edge.
I bought on ebay a few weeks ago a book about Blake published in 1945, with a dozen or so tipped in plates that are of amazing quality. This method of displaying plates in a book is becoming less common as the years flit by, due primarily to changes in printing technology. Tipping-in is more labour intensive, too.
Best wishes,
Michael.
JohnS - May 02, 2008 - 06:23 PM
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Michael, thanks for explanation, 'scuse my ignorance. I love books (especially our kind) but am not aware of the finer points.
Check out my photo of a LAM stone I found.Image in the Misc Galleries, if the Rotters allow me to display it ! - Anyone else also, of course - hope I was pc there !
Love,as always, is the Law.
John.
Walterfive - May 02, 2008 - 08:42 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: ›
JohnS wrote: › Wot's 'tipped in ' then ? - Selotape ??
The illustration is printed separately and then attached to the required surface with a line of adhesive such as glue, usually to the reverse top edge.
It used to be in the 40's (maybe earlier) until well into the 70's (or later) that most of the finer art reproduction books had their plates placed in this manner. That was one of the nice things about that edition, I'm fairly certain that's the last art book I ever saw that had its plates done like that.
lashtal - May 02, 2008 - 08:55 PM
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JohnS wrote: › Image in the Misc Galleries, if the Rotters allow me to display it !
The "Rotters", alas, are no more. Now it's just me, which means there's no one left for me to blame.
kidneyhawk - May 02, 2008 - 09:13 PM
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Quote: ›
it's just me
Ahem.
I'd like to see your Charter, Paul.
JohnS - May 02, 2008 - 10:04 PM
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Dear Lonely Rotter,
I do hope that you can bring yourseltf to post my picture.
I am sorry for your loss.
Shoud you care to venture, you will find rotters everywhere and anywhere. Well, such has been my experience.
I remember rotting on my own a while ago.
Then something disturbed me.
So I recalled posting the picture.
Assisst my atempt at eternity.
We have all been here before.
John.
MichaelStaley - May 02, 2008 - 10:20 PM
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JohnS wrote: › We have all been here before.
Best to whisper it . . . the partition walls between threads are paper thin around these parts . . . You don't want any hessle, do you . . .
Wizardiaoan - May 03, 2008 - 03:16 AM
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Excellent,
I'm definitely going to save up for it. This is one of the most recondite & obscure of Kenneth Grant's Works (just got the image of being it being akin to B.O.C.'s "Secret Treaties" album). I recall being plummeted into an obscure outer dimension myself upon reading it via college loan a decade ago. It is one of my favorites of his.
I myself also think it might actually be talismanic in an Advaita Vedanta sense, as the title invokes that stream of contemplation. However, I could not recommend it over Nisargadatta's "I Am That" in this regard
darkflame - May 21, 2008 - 08:23 AM
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Is there any further news on "Outside..."? Has the standard edition been dispatched yet? I'm patiently awaiting it in Yokohama!
Also, is it really the case that "Against the Light" has sold out of it's first run? Too bad if so, the recent discussion has piqued my interest!
MichaelStaley - May 21, 2008 - 11:54 AM
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The standard edition of Outside the Circles of Time has still not been delivered to me from the printers, I'm sorry to say. The printing was completed last week, and it is being bound as we speak.
I am hoping that it will be delivered later this week. Only then will the specialist bookbinders start work on the deluxes.
I'm sorry about this further delay. I will post an update when I have a solid date for delivery.
Yes, Against the Light is - after eleven years - out of print.
Best wishes,
Michael.
darkflame - May 21, 2008 - 01:21 PM
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Thanks for the update Michael. Looking forward to my copy, along with the Fulgur special edition of "The Valley of Fear", another delayed printing! Am sure they will both be worth the wait though.
Too bad about "Against the Light", had no idea it had been out so long!
MichaelStaley - May 21, 2008 - 05:57 PM
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I have had word from my printers that the standard edition will be delivered to Starfire Towers this Friday, 23rd May. Hurrah!!!
The specialist binders will start work on the deluxes shortly after. I'll be emailing all who have ordered deluxes, once I have a likely date for delivery.
In the meantime, I have more than a hundred individual orders for the standards to package up and despatch. It will take from a few days up to a week to get them all in the post. Bear with me then, as the actress said to the bishop.
Exultantly yours,
Michael.
DNA - May 21, 2008 - 06:22 PM
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Fantastic news. It'll not be long now 'till the tome lands on our doorsteps!
nashimiron - May 21, 2008 - 06:36 PM
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Excellent news. If I was a puppy I'd snap the postmans fingers off when my copy arrives.
I can't believe that it took 11 years for Against the Light to go out of print. Don't folks read books no more?
MichaelStaley - May 23, 2008 - 12:19 PM
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So, after all this time, the standard edition of Outside the Circles of Time has been delivered this very morning to Starfire Towers.
Hurrah!!
There are a lot of pre-publication orders to package and despatch - a list as long as me arm, mate - but it should be all over in the course of next week.
A launch is being arranged in central London for the evening of Saturday 31st May. Details to follow
The deluxes are being bound by a specialist binder, and are liable to take up a further month.
BlueKephra - May 23, 2008 - 02:22 PM
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Hurrah indeed. I have my suspicions that Valley Of Fear was in the queue to be printed after OTCOT. when you're done packing them up could you nip round to Robert Ansell's house and give him a hand ??
defile959 - May 29, 2008 - 01:10 PM
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I'm quite excited for this one to arrive! Thanks for the hard work, Mick - and for keeping us updated on the progress along the way!
uranus - May 30, 2008 - 01:43 AM
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Mr. Staley,
What is next on the Grant re-issues and when are we getting something from you that isn't an article in Starfire. LOL.
sethur666 - May 30, 2008 - 09:03 AM
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93
Looking forward to the launch!
93 93/93
Steve W
magispiegel - May 30, 2008 - 09:43 AM
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Congratulations for the launch Michael,
Wish I could make it, but cannot leave Aphrodites grip...as it turns into something Hecateain.
Many thanks for the 'special number' that you reserved for my deluxe edition.
Best Wishes
Charles
MichaelStaley - May 30, 2008 - 11:51 AM
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magispiegel wrote: › Wish I could make it, but cannot leave Aphrodites grip...
Who amongst us would wish to tear ourselves away from Aphrodite's grip?
MichaelStaley - May 30, 2008 - 09:53 PM
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uranus wrote: › What is next on the Grant re-issues . . .
The next one will be The Magical Revival, possibly later this year but more likely early next year.
uranus wrote: › . . . and when are we getting something from you that isn't an article in Starfire . . .
Within the next year or two.
Best wishes,
Michael.
JohnS - May 30, 2008 - 11:40 PM
Post subject: Time and Other things
Michael, you tease us !!!
So, the next burning question is ..........
When can we expect, Starfire ???
Most beautiful, most exalted, journal of the living current.
It has been a long time.
You've got 'till 23/12/12
Or so the Olmec told the Maya.
The hole in my shoe is letting in water.
John.
adonia444 - May 31, 2008 - 11:50 PM
Post subject: RE: Time and Other things
I wonder if anyone here might want to give those of us unable to attend the launch tonight a bit of an overview? I'm sure it went well and all had a great time but you know....details are fun, pictures are even better.
K
sethur666 - Jun 01, 2008 - 09:17 AM
Post subject: RE: Time and Other things
I think it all went rather well, the wine was reasonably priced and there were various Kenneth Grant first editions on display. People prominent in all of the 3 OTOs that are active in the capital were there along with Psychic Questers and other denizens of the London occult scene - some of the Questers had travelled a long way for it. Cuvalwen and I, along with Andy Collins, got trapped in the smoking alley during the talk and possibly some sort of meditation, and got blamed for noise coming from people outside Sofra upstairs, but it was perfectly civilised, no-one was running around waving charters at people and a good time was had by all. Well done Starfire.
Camlion - Jun 01, 2008 - 08:23 PM
Post subject: RE: Time and Other things
How much time did it take KG to write Outside the Circles of Time, from start finish? Mick? Anyone? -Camlion
MichaelStaley - Jun 01, 2008 - 11:54 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: Time and Other things
Camlion wrote: › How much time did it take KG to write Outside the Circles of Time, from start finish? Mick? Anyone? -Camlion
I don't know; this isn't something I have discussed with him. There was a three-year gap between the publication of Nightside of Eden in 1977 and that of Outside the Circles of Time in 1980. There are some references in Nightside which seem precursory of some of the themes in Circles. However - and it is my uninformed opinion - the majority of the book would have been written in a short period of time - a few months, probably.
Grant has always struck me as an inspirational writer, in the sense that a book arises from a current of inspiration rather than him thinking "What on earth can I write about in my next book?". There's probably a short time, therefore, between inspiration and execution.
Best wishes,
Michael.
MichaelStaley - Jun 02, 2008 - 09:47 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Time and Other things
adonia444 wrote: › I wonder if anyone here might want to give those of us unable to attend the launch tonight a bit of an overview? I'm sure it went well and all had a great time but you know....details are fun, pictures are even better.
Unaccustomed though I am to blowing my own trumpet - as the bishop said to the actress - I thought the evening went very well. Unfortunately, Caroline forgot her digital camera, and I didn't notice any other paparazzi there, so there may be no pictures.
Caroline spoke about how she first came to publish Kenneth Grant whilst at Skoob. I read out a couple of short appreciations of Kenneth Grant, one from Margaret Ingalls (Andahadna/Nema), the other from Henrik Bogdan, and then read out the closing paragraphs of the Introduction to Circles as capturing the essence of Grant's style as a writer:
Kenneth Grant wrote: › One final point is here relevant, and I state it without apology. It is not my purpose to try to prove anything; my aim is to construct a magical mirror capable of expressing some of the less elusive images seen as shadows of a future aeon. This I do by means of suggestion, evocation, and by those oblique and ‘inbetweenness concepts’ that Austin Spare defined as ‘Neither-Neither’. When this is understood, the reader’s mind becomes receptive to the influx of certain concepts that can, if received undistortedly, fertilize the unknown dimensions of his consciousness. In order to achieve this aim a new manner of communication has to be evolved; language itself has to be reborn, revivified, and given a new direction and a new momentum. The truly creative image is born of creative imagining, and this is - ultimately - an irrational process that transcends the grasp of human logic.
It is well known that scientists and mathematicians have evolved a cryptic language, a language so elusive, so fugitive, and yet so essentially cosmic that it forms an almost qabalistic mode of communication, often misinterpreted by its own initiates! Our position is not quite as desperate, for we are dealing primarily with the body-mind complex in its relation to the universe, and the body-aspect is deeply rooted in the soil of sentiency. Our minds may not understand, but in the deeper layers of subconsciousness where humanity shares a common bed, there is instant recognition. Similarly, a magician devises his ceremony in harmony with the forces he wills to invoke, so an author must pay considerable attention to the creation of an atmosphere that is suitable for his operations. Words are his magical instruments, and their vibrations must produce not a merely arbitrary noise, but an elaborate symphony of tonal reverberations that trigger a series of increasingly profound echoes in the consciousness of his readers. One cannot over-emphasize or over-estimate the importance of this subtle form of alchemy, for it is in the nuances, and not necessarily in the rational meanings of the words and numbers employed, that the magick resides. Furthermore, it is very often in the suggestion of certain words not used, yet indicated or employed by other words having no direct relation to them, that produce the most precise definitions. The edifice of a reality-construct may sometimes be reared only by an architecture of absence, whereby the real building is at one and the same time revealed and concealed by an alien structure haunted by probabilities. These are legion, and it is the creative faculty of the reader - awake and active - that can people the house with souls. So then, this book may mean many things to many readers, and different things to all; but to none can it mean nothing at all, for the house is constructed in such a manner that no echo can be lost.
Then Caroline spoke again about Grant's work, and led a toast to Kenneth and Steffi Grant and the republication of this book. She had bought along a cake decorated for the occasion with a spider's web similar to that on the jacket of the book, and many of us helped ourselves to a sliver, albeit with a shiver.
The whole evening was great. Many thanks to Christina at Treadwells for hosting it, to Julia and Paul for their help over the course of the evening, to Ben Fernee for transporting us and our stock of books to and fro, to Lashtal for publicising the occasion, and to all who attended and made it such a success.
Best wishes,
Michael.
darkflame - Jun 02, 2008 - 10:13 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Time and Other things
I wish I could have been at the event! But receieving my copy in Yokohama today makes me anything but a dull boy... Of course the printing is up to the usual high standard and I look forward to reading the text. Congratulations once again Starfire, I can't wait for the next issue of the magazine and the next Grant reprint.
DNA - Jun 02, 2008 - 02:12 PM
Post subject:
Sounds like it was a great night. I really want to see that cake.
darkflame, have you received your book? I'm so jealous! Can't wait for mine to arrive at the door.
MichaelStaley - Jun 02, 2008 - 02:25 PM
Post subject:
It will only be a few more days. There was a huge number of pre-publication orders that have to be packaged and despatched. I'm working through them, but since I have a full-time job they are going out a few at a time. As it is, my dreams are filled with jiffy bags and cardboard packaging - just part of the glamour of being a publisher, I'm told.
As ever, I understand the desire to have these books as soon as possible after such a long wait. All remaining orders should be shipped in the course of this week.
Best wishes,
Michael.
DNA - Jun 02, 2008 - 03:00 PM
Post subject:
Michael:
I totally sympathise with you and your situation and I don't think anyone would be able to complete this shipment as efficiently as you.
Thanks again.
kidneyhawk - Jun 04, 2008 - 05:44 PM
Post subject:
I just received my copy of Circles and, from the second I opened the cover and saw "new" art by Steffi Grant (Block prints at that! Personal prejudice perhaps but glorious to see her work in this medium!), was astounded at what a truly wonderful and amazing job was done with the "redux." I couldn't believe how WHITE the pages were (just got used to the old edition's yellow-brown, I suppose...). That and the new typesetting made even old familiar passages read with a new feel. The interior artwork is redone with some of the old images enhanced and in color as well as spotlighting yet MORE previously unseen art by Steffi Grant (exploring the theme of nymph and faun in blockprint, and pen and ink). Really wonderful stuff to have included in this edition.
Of course, the original text of Circles is worthy of read after read and like a true work of art continues to yield up new vision with each visit. In my opinion, a truly significant contribution to the field of Magick in general and Thelema in particular.
Kudos to Starfire for a superb job in bringing this tome back to the fore!
Kyle
defile959 - Jun 04, 2008 - 06:24 PM
Post subject:
My copy arrived today as well. I've only just been able to give it a quick glance, as the demands of work and family have (as of yet) prevented from having more than just a few minutes to peruse it, but I look forward to delving deeper this evening.
It looks great, Michael!
MichaelStaley - Jun 04, 2008 - 06:28 PM
Post subject:
defile959 and Kyle,
Thanks for your appreciative remarks.
Michael.
lashtal - Jun 04, 2008 - 06:48 PM
Post subject:
Great to hear from you Kyle.
kidneyhawk wrote: › I couldn't believe how WHITE the pages were (just got used to the old edition's yellow-brown, I suppose...)
If ever a book was famous for its poor choice of paper, that was the one!
My copy's arrived and I agree: it's a strikingly attractive book and the plates are extraordinary. And it is very white.
A review will follow, but it's in a queue...
daimonos - Jun 04, 2008 - 07:04 PM
Post subject:
What's it behind, Paul?
[queries the review queue]
lashtal - Jun 04, 2008 - 07:08 PM
Post subject:
There's Richard Spence's Secret Agent 666, then Richard McNeff's Sybarite Among The Shadows, then, ah, I'm not sure I can mention the next one yet!
noxlux - Jun 04, 2008 - 09:55 PM
Post subject:
lashtal wrote: ›
If ever a book was famous for its poor choice of paper, that was the one!
I have to admit I sort of liked the quality of the paper. This is sort of childish, but it made the tome seem more ... well ... tomelike ... like a very rare and old book ...
nevertheless I am looking forward to the new edition
Walterfive - Jun 05, 2008 - 05:17 PM
Post subject:
It will be very rare! That high acid content is destroying the paper's pulp base, that's what causing the yellowing, which will soon become crumbling.. just like the "pulp" magazines of the 20's and 30's... I've got a lot of cheaper books from the war-era 30's & 40's with the same problems...
Eagerly anticipating the new edition here in Texas... can't wait to see those new illustrations! Cool!
uranus - Jun 06, 2008 - 02:48 AM
Post subject:
Want to talk about cheap ass paper? FIre & Ice from Llewellyn, my copy is already browning at the edges. Thank the stars that another edition is available.
JohnS - Jun 06, 2008 - 09:31 PM
Post subject:
Michael,
Got the book today, many thanks.
It is very fine.
Top notch quality.
Wish you were doing 'Hecate's Fountain' or 'Beyond the Mauve Zone' next (I got the 'MR' many moons ago). Never mind , choosers are all beggars !
Massively looking forward to Starfire.
Any news ?
John.
noxlux - Jun 07, 2008 - 09:51 AM
Post subject:
JohnS wrote: › Michael,
Wish you were doing 'Hecate's Fountain' or 'Beyond the Mauve Zone' next .
Hear hear!
BtMZ is difficult to even find even if you are willing to shell out loads and loads of monetas.
MichaelStaley - Jun 07, 2008 - 10:05 AM
Post subject:
noxlux wrote: › BtMZ is difficult to even find even if you are willing to shell out loads and loads of monetas.
Yes, even for those of us with wallets the size of an elephant's scrotum, Beyond the Mauve Zone is still difficult to get hold of. It will be republished, perhaps towards the end of next year.
Best wishes,
Michael.
MichaelStaley - Jun 08, 2008 - 02:57 PM
Post subject:
My attention has been drawn to a flaw on page 176 of the new edition of Outside the Circles of Time. A truncation of text starts half-way through line 17 and continues as far as the beginning of the footnote text. This error came about at a very late stage of production, when preparing the final PDF of the text for despatch to the printers. The text had been intact on all generations of the PDF until then.
Naturally I regret this error - which mars an otherwise attractive and profound book - very much indeed. An errata sheet will be prepared and distributed, once I have ensured that this is an isolated occurrence. In the meantime, my sincere apologies to all.
In contrition,
Michael.
DNA - Jun 09, 2008 - 04:38 PM
Post subject:
I received my copy of OTCOT this afternoon and I think that Starfire publishing has done this grimoire wonderful justice.
The artwork in colour is simply stunning, and I love the iridescence of the pages. Just splendid. Can't wait to tuck in!
N.O.X - Jun 13, 2008 - 03:47 AM
Post subject:
93/23
Well, I still haven't don't have my copy. So, I ordered mine from JD Holmes but since Kyle (who also lives in the U.S) already has his, I assume that ordering from Starfire is faster. I'll remember that next time. Impatiently waiting.....
93 93/93
Walterfive - Jun 13, 2008 - 01:46 PM
Post subject:
Sorry to hear it, N.O.X. My non-limited edition arrived last Friday. I'd guess it will take about that amount of time to have gotten to Holmes, and then what his turn-around time would be, I can only imagine a few days, you should get yours soon.
Worth the wait. It's beautiful.
Can't wait for the next one!!!
MichaelStaley - Jun 14, 2008 - 04:16 PM
Post subject:
A sizeable shipment of the books is en route to Holmes, and is due to arrive shortly at some neighbouring port in the USA I believe. It has gone by surface rather than air, I would have thought, in order to prevent the dollar price of the book being unacceptably high. Whilst there are some who will buy this book almost irrespective of the price, for many others the price is a determining factor.
I referred above to a flaw only recently detected in this book, whereby some text has been blanked out. I'm still considering options with my printers, but for the standard edition it looks as if an errata slip will have to suffice. However, it is likely that for the deluxes there will be a print rerun. This is likely to cause further delay in the deluxes becoming available, but will be worth it.
Many thanks to the many people who on receipt of the book have emailed me, or posted to this thread, to say how much they like this new edition. It is truly heartwarming.
Best wishes,
Michael.
lashtal - Jun 14, 2008 - 04:45 PM
Post subject:
MichaelStaley wrote: › However, it is likely that for the deluxes there will be a print rerun.
That's good news - thanks for the update, Michael.
jcyn - Jul 01, 2008 - 01:39 AM
Post subject:
Well received on Saturday from JD Holmes; in Death Valley, USA. Errata slip intact. Thank You Starfire. Footnotes be dammed, Onward through the Fog. A fine production, I find pleasure in sniffing the pages. Thank You Again!
Walterfive - Jul 01, 2008 - 03:26 PM
Post subject:
MichaelStaley wrote: › However, it is likely that for the deluxes there will be a print rerun.
Ow! That's gotta cut into your production expenses!!!
Are you *sure* a tipped-in errata slip won't suffice? Personally, I don't mind one if it gets my copy out quicker, and if it helps *your* bottom line, *and* gets the next Typhonian reprint out quicker, so much the better!
As a former Army Journalist, proof-reader and paste-pot layout newspaperman, I deeply sympathize with the exorcizing of these these sort of devils. Thank the Saints I'm no longer in that line of work!!!
lashtal - Jul 01, 2008 - 04:07 PM
Post subject:
Makes me realize how fortunate I am to be working in the far more ephemeral world of the web, where adjustments can be made in the blink of an eye using nothing more than this iPhone!
N.O.X - Jul 07, 2008 - 01:21 AM
Post subject:
Also received mine on Sat. I kinda dig the errata slip....its sparkley and makes for a good bookmark.
darkflame - Jul 07, 2008 - 10:04 AM
Post subject:
michael, will you be sending out errata slips to those of us who ordered before the error was noted?
MichaelStaley - Jul 07, 2008 - 12:07 PM
Post subject:
JD Holmes is sending out his own errata slips to the customers he supplied. All who bought directly from me will be receiving an errata slip in due course. My apologies for the delay.
Best wishes,
Michael.
nashimiron - Jul 07, 2008 - 01:26 PM
Post subject:
MichaelStaley wrote: › it is likely that for the deluxes there will be a print rerun.
Michael,
Any news on how long this is going to take?
Also, if you have all the unused pages from the misprints, why not produce a cheaply bound libraries edition and give them to remote rural libraries, or perhaps Christian Aid have a project that sends books to the third world? 
MichaelStaley - Jul 07, 2008 - 01:37 PM
Post subject:
The rerun for the deluxes has taken place, and the materials are with the specialist bookbinders. I am meeting with them tomorrow to pass over some other items, after which work will commence. The specialist bookbinders are likely to take a month or so; once there is an estimated delivery date I will be updating all subscribers to the deluxe edition.
Best wishes,
Michael.
Johnny - Jul 07, 2008 - 04:27 PM
Post subject:
Dear Mr. Staley,
Good news, I'm looking forward to have the deluxe edition (...the one with extra tentacles..) in my hands. To make a rerun, to correct the error, seems to be an excellent choice. A(L)ll my warm wishes to the Starfire!
Fraternally,
J. Jakobsson
darkflame - Jul 08, 2008 - 06:59 AM
Post subject:
MichaelStaley wrote: › JD Holmes is sending out his own errata slips to the customers he supplied. All who bought directly from me will be receiving an errata slip in due course. My apologies for the delay.
Best wishes,
Michael.
thanks, looking forward to it!
MichaelStaley - Jul 11, 2008 - 05:09 PM
Post subject:
Just an update on the deluxes.
The reprint for the deluxes was completed and all materials placed with the specialist binders, who have started work. They are likely to deliver the finished books to me in the second half of August.
Walter did suggest above that he would have been happier with a tipped-in errata slip in order to speed the completion of the deluxes. If emails to the diamond geezers who man the keyboards in the vicinity of starfire.books @btinternet.com are anything to go by, most subscribers to the limited edition are grateful that the text is being corrected. I'm glad to have embarked on that path, therefore.
Best wishes,
Michael.
kidneyhawk - Jul 11, 2008 - 06:04 PM
Post subject:
Quote: ›
most subscribers to the limited edition are grateful that the text is being corrected
Whereas this is absolutely understandable, I have to add that the "error" in the standard edition is VERY minor and hardly impacts the text. It will be evident to the astute reader who has traveled thus far in the book that a small portion of Gematria got "blipped out" but one who has gone that distance already will not find extending their study into an errata sheet to be a terrible effort. The overall "package" is simply glorious and much more radiant than its first appearance.
Just sayin'....
Kyle
nashimiron - Jul 11, 2008 - 06:55 PM
Post subject:
Seeing as how I've ordered a deluxe edition I'm quite pleased that Michael and Starfire have put in the extra effort and had them reprinted. It shows that they care about how they turn out. They could have just said it was too late for a reprint and left them with an errata slip.
I'm happy to wait, though if I spend much more time in Watkins drooling over the standard editions they have on their shelves they might think I'm some kind of a prevert and have me barred. 
lashtal - Jul 11, 2008 - 07:22 PM
Post subject:
MichaelStaley wrote: › They are likely to deliver the finished books to me in the second half of August.
Excellent, Michael. That gives me a chance at least of finishing a decent review before they're published!
the_real_simon_iff - Jul 17, 2008 - 07:58 PM
Post subject:
Hi Michael...
I guess it is too late for that, but I spotted another VERY TINY flaw, which I am sure you would have liked to correct in the Deluxes: In Chapter 14 - The Watcher in the Tower, the footnotes at the bottom get a little ahead (one number ahead to be precise) of the footnote numbers in the text, which is nothing more than a little inconvenient by having to browse back to the footnote. Anyway, probably too late - and, I repeat, unimportant anyhow.
After reading it on the beach in Greece (yes, packed in my handmade sand-, sweat-, water- and oil-proof dustjacket, I read the book on a beach just across from Mount Olymp in between saving my son again and again from the Typhonian currents of the Gulf of Salonika which seemed irresistible to him) I wanted to congratulate you once again for your efforts in republishing it. I regret I never read it before I had to sell my first edition.
Thanks again
Love=Law
Lutz
N.O.X - Jul 18, 2008 - 03:37 AM
Post subject:
I too noticed the footnote error, also without ever reading the first edition. A minor and unimportant error it is indeed. In fact, I like how it makes me turn back the page so I can read it all over again. I'm on my second read through this Tome, and I just want to say this book gets better and better with each read. I love it! Damn, I can hardly stand the waiting......how much longer until Monolith is published, Michael?
MichaelStaley - Jul 18, 2008 - 03:22 PM
Post subject:
NOX, many thanks for your appreciative remarks. Concerning Monolith, Kenneth hasn't finished this yet and I don't know how imminent is its completion. When I do know, there'll be an announcement. In the meantime, I'm continuing to work on the republication of the out-of-print Trilogies volumes, and hope to publish the next one by the end of the year.
Ever the busy bee (of Maat),
Michael.
DNA - Jul 18, 2008 - 07:19 PM
Post subject:
MichaelStaley wrote: › In the meantime, I'm continuing to work on the republication of the out-of-print Trilogies volumes, and hope to publish the next one by the end of the year.
Ever the busy bee (of Maat),
Michael.
Fantastic news. If you don't mind me asking, which Typhonian Tome do you plan on embellishing, Michael?
Declan.
MichaelStaley - Jul 18, 2008 - 10:48 PM
Post subject:
The Magical Revival is the next one.
Te23 - Jul 24, 2008 - 07:43 AM
Post subject:
93.
I just received my copy of Outside the Circle of Time from JD Holmes and I just wanted say, "wow." It's a beautiful edition and am really happy to have received a copy. I have been wanting to read Grant's books for a while now but they have mostly been out of my price range. I am stoked to see these new editions coming out. I will surely be a consistent customer.
Thanks.
93 93/93
-Te23
N.O.X - Jul 25, 2008 - 05:43 AM
Post subject:
Throughout the book Grant mentions some of Achad's unpublished correspondence. Well, I was wondering if this has been published as of now? If not, when will it be? If never, then why not?
lashtal - Jul 29, 2008 - 01:13 PM
Post subject:
Michael Staley has canceled his membership of LAShTAL.COM, so you're better off contacting him by email.
the_real_simon_iff - Jul 29, 2008 - 02:09 PM
Post subject:
lashtal wrote: › Michael Staley has canceled his membership of LAShTAL.COM, so you're better off contacting him by email.
Off topic, but that is quite sad...
Love=Law
Lutz
DNA - Jul 29, 2008 - 02:21 PM
Post subject:
That's a shame. I greatly admired his insightful, knowledgeable posts.
nuhad418 - Jul 29, 2008 - 06:54 PM
Post subject:
That is highly unfortunate...I enjoyed his contributions very much. I'm sure it was for a good reason though. Thanks for mentioning this Paul.
Camlion - Jul 29, 2008 - 08:09 PM
Post subject:
Agreed. Hopefully he will return soon. His contribution is of great ongoing value.
kidneyhawk - Jul 31, 2008 - 02:53 PM
Post subject:
Quote: ›
a shame. I greatly admired his insightful, knowledgeable posts
I would like to express the same sentiment. During my 2 some years with Lashtal.com, Mr. Staley has always been a regular contributor and shared a tremendous amount of insight, challenge and good humor with the site.
The place won't be the same with him gone.
Kyle
Iskandar - Jul 31, 2008 - 04:37 PM
Post subject:
I agree with the above. Michael's eloquence and great knowledge - and humour - were always such a treat. I sincerely hope he will be back.
kidneyhawk - Jul 31, 2008 - 05:36 PM
Post subject:
Perhaps as a return to the general theme of this thread, may I inquire as to the state of the anticipated review by our Webmaster? A quick scan over that dept. of the site didn't show it...
...I though Mogg Morgan's review of the 9th Arch was wonderful and places it in a context whereby a reader newly arriving into that text might not feel so befuddled by its complexities. Outside The Circles Of Time had long been one of those "white whales," nigh impossible for the average reader to locate in the years after its publishing. I was fortunate to get a very battered copy for study ere the re-release and found it astounding. In fact, its nature is such that it continues to generate new insights with every read, more like a brilliant poem or piece of music than a work of mere didactic content.
It also brings together many crucial elements relative to the development of Thelema in its rolling rhythms. The reader is brought into Grant's firsthand experiences with Crowley, a fascinating chapter. The reader also is introduced to the ideas behind the sometimes controversial "Aeon of Maat" and how it relates to the generally understood concept of "Aeons," familiar to every reader of Liber AL.
As Mogg Morgan pointed out in his words on Ninth Arch, there ARE aspects to the work which belong particulaly to the parlance of the "Typhonian Tradition" and may evoke a few scratches on the head-but (again, to refer to Mogg's review), these elements tend towards the evocative as much as the "baffling."
I personally found OTCOT to be one of Grant's most immediately "accessible" books and a fine place to begin penetration of the 9 volume "Magnum Opus."
With "evocative" being a key word, I think the sundry perspectives on this tome will reflect its "living" quality. I'm looking forward to the review and another viewpoint of the text with its own unique insights into this unique book.
93,
Kyle
the_real_simon_iff - Jul 31, 2008 - 07:20 PM
Post subject:
93!
As a beginner with Kenneth Grant's works, I have a question: He repeatedly says in OTCOT that Crowley failed to utter a word for "his" aeon, but wasn't THELEMA supposed to be that word? What am I mixing up here?
Love=Law
Lutz
kidneyhawk - Jul 31, 2008 - 07:51 PM
Post subject:
93, RSI-!
The gist is that Thelema is the Word of the LAW as opposed to the "Word of the Aeon." Other "words" have been suggested as fitting the bill but all require definition and seem to point to something particular within the Aeon and not to the Aeon Itself. For example, some have read ABRAHADABRA as the real "Word of the Aeon." But this is defined as the Key to the Rituals etc. The Introduction of the idea of the Wordless Aeon also invokes a mandala of Aeonic Patterns existing (forgive me) "Outside the Circles of Time" in a simultaneity as opposed to a strict linear progression marked by approximately 2,000 of measured time. The idea is similar to that in certain Buddhist Schools which outline the various "Realms" (Hell, Hungry Ghost Realm, Atsura Realm etc) as modes of consciousness which each contain the others. As there is postulated a highest realm (The World of the Buddha) and this realm is also present even in the lowest realm, ones interface with these zones of activity is not limited to following a flowchart of linear sequence. That a particular field of energy may be dominant is not in question-that this may be observed in a general sense is also given. But the magician who is actively participating in the unfolding work is not bound to operate or measure his own unfoldment according to the defining characterisitcs of the Zeitgeist.
Returning to the topic of the Word, it is a debatable one. I personally find Grant's examination of the possiblity that Crowley "failed" in this regard to open up an infinitude of possibilites which may be worked with actively and creatively. Nor do I think it is odds with the nature of the Dual-Horus as given expression in Liber AL.
93,
Kyle
ianrons - Jul 31, 2008 - 07:52 PM
Post subject:
What, so the Word of the Aeon can't at the same time be the Key to the Rituals? Seems unlikely to me. These are very loosely defined concepts, but it would seem to me that the ultimate magick word for each Aeon is in fact the key to the ritualistic practices therein.
kidneyhawk - Jul 31, 2008 - 07:54 PM
Post subject:
Quote: ›
it would seem to me that the ultimate magick word for each Aeon is in fact the key to the ritualistic practices therein
What word would that be?
ianrons - Jul 31, 2008 - 08:03 PM
Post subject:
Well, since we're talking Crowley, the "ultimate magick word" is the key of the rituals. This is the word of the Great Work complete: Abrahadabra.
But also apparently the Word of the Aeon is Makhashanah in the "Enochian" angelic language used by Crowley, which I suppose is a more exalted way of looking at the word Abrahadabra. It is a different layer, as it were. Qabalah is very much like this: there are different God names to be pronounced in different spheres. So the word doesn't always sound the same down here, as it were.
kidneyhawk - Jul 31, 2008 - 08:03 PM
Post subject:
Quote: ›
it would seem to me that the ultimate magick word for each Aeon is in fact the key to the ritualistic practices therein
Quote: ›
This is the word of the Great Work complete: Abrahadabra
So, am I correct in understanding that you see ABRAHADABRA as the "Word of the Aeon?" (which is not necessarily problematic but MOST Thelemites are quick to give Thelema as that word and this will take us back to both Lutz's inquiry and also some of the ideas around Aeonics which KG presents in OTCOT).
Kyle
kidneyhawk - Jul 31, 2008 - 08:05 PM
Post subject:
Quote: ›
am I correct in understanding that you see ABRAHADABRA is the "Word of the Aeon?"
And by "Aeon," I mean "Aeon of Horus" (just to avoid confusion!)
Walterfive - Jul 31, 2008 - 08:11 PM
Post subject:
Whoa!!!
Check out the big brain on Kyle! 
VERY concise explanation of a very difficult subject, sir! I bow to your ability to elucidate!
I must admit, my gut reaction to OTCOT when I first read it 20 years ago was that Grant had been sipping on Uncle Al's Wormwood Absinthe recipie for too long... How could the Magus of the Aeon have failed to utter the Word of the Aeon?
But Grant was not the first person to suppose this, the first was (IIRC) Frater Achad.
I'm still not convinced that we're in the Aeon of Maat, but I'm no longer convinced that we are not.... and uncertainty is a much better place to allow a plethora of possibilities.
amadan-De - Jul 31, 2008 - 08:22 PM
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One of the entries for 418 in Sepher Sephiroth states pretty clearly that it is "The Word of the Aeon" - it is not Thelema (which would be 93). Which would make most Thelemites wrong (and possibly Grant too, though I'd want to read what he says 'in context' before stating that). The entry is on p.43 - and just to be confusing might extend onto p.44. (page numbers as given in the Weiser '777, etc.' - each section is numbered separately)
kidneyhawk - Jul 31, 2008 - 08:28 PM
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Walterfive, cheers...I believe on one of our threads here, Mr. Staley himself confessed to not quite "vibing" with OTCOT when he first read it-and then years later, it opened in all sorts of new ways. My own experience of KG has been similar. When I began, I found him obtuse, twisted. Alluring yet dark and convoluted. It wouldn't be until years later when my experience caught up that I would revisit his books and find my jaw dropping at the burning insights therein.
Re: Achad. He is generally regarded as a big "crash and burn" with AC's dismissal of him at the end. But when he had his AL (ALLALA) revelation(s), AC was more than impressed. He felt Achad was, in fact, the prophesied child who came through with the "Key" to open the "Palace." Fall from grace, tree of life on its head or not, AC saw his contribution as significant.
I do not think we are in the Aeon of Maat, by the way. I think the Aeon of Maat runs simultaneously with the Aeon of Horus, which, not unlike the Zodiac, contains "creative" and "destructive" modes of manifesting, something AC said was "up to us" to determine. I see Maat as something which can be accessed, just as Horus can be accessed (and it is arguable that many amongst the masses have not tapped and opened up into the liberating nature within themselves, expressed in Horus...). Likewise, I don't have a "pre-1904=defunct" attitude and see elements of what we regard as the Osirean Aeon and the Aeon of Isis of value to the present work and energy flux (and I think Ian does, too, as he references the Enochiana of D and K).
Furthermore, Horus as a Dual-God forms something a crossroads or centerpiece to this "Mandala" of Aeons rising and falling at various levels within both individuals and the planetary inhabitants as a whole. I think Achad got off track by wanting to "force a birth" and hop-skip through Horus as he hop-skipped all the Grades AC warned him to return to and complete. Grant offers a much different view of the role of Maat and the sooner people stop conceiving of it as an Aeon which is meant to SUPPLANT something they cherish ("this great wonderful AEON OF HORUS which is the Aeon of our chosen god, not those OTHER gods!") the sooner the subtleties-but also immediacy-of the Maatian ideas will become clearer.
As usual, this is just my perspective but one which I've personally found of great value, one which has tightened my committment to Thelema and one to which I owe a certain Englishman who drank ether with the Beast an enduring debt of gratitude.
93,
Kyle
the_real_simon_iff - Jul 31, 2008 - 08:35 PM
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93!
Thanks for all the answers. Maybe I should have checked before about the word. I forgot where I read/heard about THELEMA being it. Anyway. But the question remains: Why does Grant not acknowledge ABRAHADABRA as "Crowley's" word of the aeon? He obviously knew of all the instances Crowley wrote that.
Another thing after reading the book was: There seems to be a huge amount of unpublished Frater Achad material. Hopefully there are plans of publishing it some time not too far away...
Love=Law
Lutz
Iskandar - Jul 31, 2008 - 08:50 PM
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"But I read clearly the Word of the Aeon, that is ABRAHADABRA wherein is the whole Mystery of the Great Work, as thou knowest. And ... the Word of the Law is THELEMA." (Aleister Crowley,Liber Aleph, Ch. 75: "On the Great Beast Himself, the Logos of the Aeon, whose Word is Thelema.")
Camlion - Jul 31, 2008 - 08:52 PM
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the_real_simon_iff wrote: › 93!
Thanks for all the answers. Maybe I should have checked before about the word. I forgot where I read/heard about THELEMA being it. Anyway. But the question remains: Why does Grant not acknowledge ABRAHADABRA as "Crowley's" word of the aeon? He obviously knew of all the instances Crowley wrote that.
Another thing after reading the book was: There seems to be a huge amount of unpublished Frater Achad material. Hopefully there are plans of publishing it some time not too far away...
Love=Law
Lutz
93 Lutz,
I've always concluded that The word of the Law is THELEMA. AL:I,39
I am also very intersted in the replies to your questions regarding ABRAHADABRA.
93 93/93
Cam
ianrons - Jul 31, 2008 - 10:20 PM
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the_real_simon_iff wrote: › Why does Grant not acknowledge ABRAHADABRA as "Crowley's" word of the aeon? He obviously knew of all the instances Crowley wrote that.
Am also interested in the reply to this one.
magispiegel - Jul 31, 2008 - 10:47 PM
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the_real_simon_iff wrote: › Why does Grant not acknowledge ABRAHADABRA as "Crowley's" word of the aeon? He obviously knew of all the instances Crowley wrote that.
Because, according to Grant, the word of the aeon is SILENCE. Zain being a formula of access. As an experience, it refers to Blavatsky's 'Voice of the Silence' and this magickal state can be aroused during sexual ritual. This 'wordless' aeon is represented or uttered within the physical vehicle by the convulsions of the yoni (AIN/61) of the priestess - being the entrance into other dimensions.
kidneyhawk - Aug 01, 2008 - 12:38 AM
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Quote: ›
Am also interested in the reply to this one.
Ian and Lutz-
The passage in OTCOT which I was thinking of earlier reads as follows:
"...Achad maintained that Crowley did not as a Magus-and therefore as a true mouthpiece of the Aeon of Horus-utter a word. 'Thelema' is the 'Word of the Law' of 'Do What Thou Wilt'; Abrahadabra is the 'Key of the Rituals' (of the New Aeon), the Key which 'is in the secret word which I have given unto him.' (AL 1:20). The 'secret word' is, then, secret-ion. As we are bound to admit, neither Thelema nor Abrahadabra are the Words of the Aeon. In consequence of this omission, Achad claimed that the word Allala, which he vibrated in 1926, 'is the only one reverberating, wherever it came from.'"
This was Achad's take on the matter. As indicated in a post above, AC (if deferred to as an authority, which he certainly has claim to be) clearly states (in Aleph) that ABRAHADABRA is, in fact, the Word of the Aeon. Achad's "end" didn't really help his credibility in the matter, although, as I stated above, at the time AC held his initial revelation(s) in the highest possible regard.
When KG begins OTCOT, he writes:
"Frater Achad produced cogent, but not entirely conclusive evidence to show that Crowley failed to fulfill the function of a Magus because of his inability to utter the Word of the Aeon of Horus (the present aeon), and that therefore the present aeon is itself the Wordless Aeon, the advent of which has been dreaded and abhorred by the prophets of the past."
Please note that Grant is not regarding Achad's take as "entirely conclusive." Indeed, in the paragraph previous to this, he writes:
"...man stands-at the present moment-upon the threshold of a Wordless Aeon...he must pass through the deserts of Set...and emerge in the clear light of the Aeon of Maat."
Again, Grant's commentaries and Achad's beliefs should not be confused here. Liber AL declares ABRAHADABRA to be the "reward of Ra Hoor Khuit." If the reward of RHK is the Word of the Aeon, then what, might we ask, is the reward of that other SILENT portion of Horus, Hoor Par Kraat? It may very well be the Wordless Aeon, appropriately assigned to the God of Silence.
Later on in OTCOT, Grant will examine the initial work of Nema with regards to influx from the Aeon of Maat. During these commentaries, Grant sees Abrahadabra as pertinent not only as a formulaic key to the Aeon of Horus but a formulaic key to the Aeon of Maat, also. Hence, "Son" (Horus) and "Daughter" (Maat) run in a double current, a reflex of the "Mother" (Isis) and the "Father" (Osiris).
It is very interesting in this context to observe that the "Mark of the Beast" is an "X" in a circle. It not only expresses the Masonic "Point in the Circle" (which may readily be associated with Nuit and Hadit) but with the 4 Aeons (4 bars of the cross) in the above tetragrammatical schema. It is also interesting that in Masonic Lodgerooms that point in a circle is embordered by two lines (which may readily enter the circle to form the X).
If the Aeons are our bars on this glyph, there is the center point, the matrix from which the patterning arises. This may be seen as Buddhism's "Luminous Void" or the Germanic Cosmological "Ginnungagap." Before a word-or WORDS-comes forth, it formulates in the Silence.
AL, of course, ends with further comment on ABRAHADABRA, calling it "the ending of the words." Yet it is also defined in the same sentence as a word itself. Beyond it (esp. if we see it, like KG, as relative to both Aeons of Horus and Maat) "words end" and we approach the Silence, the God of whom Aiwass claimed to be minister.
As I indicated previously, I see these "Aeons" as going beyond mere religious dispensationalism. KG himself is in agreement that (from one perspective) we are in the "Aeon of Horus" (which is not a set of fixed qualities but mutable characterisitcs which the human race is given charge to mould). Never the less, this pertains to the general scenario rather than the work of those who are inclined to unlock the "wheels within wheels."
Crowley himself expresses this in metamorphic beauty in Liber Aleph when he observes:
"Maat, Truth, the Vulture, the All-Mother (is) an Image of Our Lady Nuit, but also it is called The Fool, who is Parsifal...and so referreth to him that walketh in the Way of the Tao. Also, he is Harpocrates, the Child Horus...he is Unity with his own Secret Nature, as I have shewn thee in my Word concerning the Sphinx."
So my contest is not with Abrahadabra as the "Word" of the Aeon per se but I observe that there is much more than a simple lock, stock and barrel summation of the energies therein with singular expressions. For those who are interested in how this may unfold into "Unity," I think OTCOT is a perfect place to start.
93,
Kyle
adonia444 - Aug 01, 2008 - 01:31 AM
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Okay, well then let's also consider:
In Liber A'Ash Vel Capricorni Pneumatici, Crowley mentions both Maat and The Word (which seems more in accord with what Charles was talking about):
"Horus leaps up thrice armed from the womb of his mother. Harpocrates his twin is hidden within him. Set is his holy covenant, that he shall display in the great day of M.A.A.T..."
Also "let him sway the force of him to and fro like a satyr in silence until The Word burst from this throat".
Without commenting on what should be pretty obvious here I thought it was really interesting that this account of The Supreme Secret should evoke the forumla of both Horus/Harpocrates and Maat as well as make allusion to The Word "bursting" in the "flaming gash in the sky" when this gash is also associated with the symbolism of the mouth (Ipsos, the word of the aeon of Maat).
The silent mouth receives and then gives forth The Word. This is kind of interesting, no? Nice little consideration anyway.
Interesting thread!
All the Best,
Kym
* In lieu of the allusion to the satyr (in a formula involving Horus and Maat) it may be doubly interesting that the new addition of OTCOT includes three previously unincluded images of that theme created by Steffi Grant which I personally find glorious.
the_real_simon_iff - Aug 01, 2008 - 07:38 AM
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OTCOT wrote: › Achad maintained that Crowley did not as a Magus-and therefore as a true mouthpiece of the Aeon of Horus-utter a word.
Thanks, Kyle. Why wait for Paul's review? You should write one yourself!
Since I am not too familiar with Achad, when exactly did he claim the grade of Magus? I know of course that he took Magister Templi (somewhat conveniently for AC), but I am not aware of his later A.A. career. (Hopefully that's not a too newby question)
This should probably become a thread of its own.
adonia444 wrote: › In lieu of the allusion to the satyr (in a formula involving Horus and Maat) it may be doubly interesting that the new addition of OTCOT includes three previously unincluded images of that theme created by Steffi Grant which I personally find glorious.
To become on-topic again: I second that! Great artwork!
Love=Law
Lutz
ianrons - Aug 01, 2008 - 10:11 AM
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Thanks for your comments. Kyle. This is just Grant v. Crowley. And Grant doesn't seem to have much of a clue about what he's talking about, if he isn't aware that AC said Abrahadabra was the Word of the Aeon. But AC says often enough what the word is and that he did "declare" it, e.g. at the end of Samekh in Book Four:
Quote: › Also He made me a Magus, speaking through His Law, the Word of the new Aeon, the Aeon of the Crowned and Conquering Child. Thus he fulfilled my will to bring full freedom to the race of Men.
So basically if you follow or want to believe Grant then you have to dismiss what Crowley says here, saying he's confused or a liar.
There is a footnote: "For the account of these matters see The Equinox, Vol. I, "The Temple of Solomon the King", Liber 418, Liber Aleph, "John St. John", "The Urn", and Book 4, Part IV."
Although the Urn is yet unpublished, I recommend you review these books in the light of this discussion.
kidneyhawk - Aug 01, 2008 - 01:20 PM
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Ian-
Your response is a little surprising.
Quote: ›
This is just Grant v. Crowley
I don't see it this way at ALL. As is evident from my many posts on the site, I (obviously) hold both of these men in high regard-and yet I goosestep to neither. In this particular instance, I am weighing what BOTH have contributed here and find that Grant DEVELOPS themes which emerged with Crowley. If you go back and reread the quote I cited from OTCOT, Grant approaches the issue speculatively and has a somewhat different slant than Achad...hence, he observes that Achad's view has explorative potential but he doesn't fold and become an "Achadian." In OTCOT, ABRAHADABRA is examined as a word pertinent to TWO Aeons, that of Horus and that of Maat. This is something which Crowley didn't develop. If all those who "come after" can do is parrot the Beast, we'd be in a pretty awful state of stagnation. Grant certainly can not be accused of this!
Quote: ›
basically if you follow or want to believe Grant then you have to dismiss what Crowley says here, saying he's confused or a liar.
Not in this instance. I am very clear on what Crowley understood the Word of the Aeon to be. Quite simply: ABRAHADABRA. And Grant also knows this. He examines those who were critical of this to unlock new depths of insight into both the Word and the work of Crowley as a whole. The result is a much more subtle and sophisticated view of Aeonics. If anything, he leaps away from the strictly linear neo-Christian dispensationalism that some in this field seem to embrace. It should be remembered that Grant is a Thelemite, was a direct disciple of AC and developed this Current in his own unique way. With regards to these developments, he clearly states in OTCOT that he is not trying to convince anyone of anything, he is not assembling an "argument" but rather creating a "magickal machine" of service to unlocking and revealing depths and layers of the 93 Current.
93,
Kyle
ianrons - Aug 01, 2008 - 01:46 PM
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Quote: › If you go back and reread the quote I cited from OTCOT, Grant approaches the issue speculatively
THe statement "man stands-at the present moment-upon the threshold of a Wordless Aeon" doesn't seem to "speculative" to me.
Quote: ›