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Teachers, Disciples and Students, Friends and Enemies - zothyrian gnosis color
przm28 - Mar 20, 2008 - 01:42 AM
Post subject: zothyrian gnosis color
in Hecates fountain chapter titled zothyrian gnosis, goes into commentary about use of color. i was wondering if anyone has come by any other sources of typhonian/zothyrian/ect. thought pertaining to color?
also... if anyone has any thoughts about defending the temple while trafficking with the 'outside' using color, in any form? whether visual, unconscious, ect.
i was interestd to see if anyone is working color not in traditional operational standards of magick/craft if this is to simple, i could elaborate.
DCXVI - Mar 20, 2008 - 02:49 PM
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It is not Typhonian, but Alice A. Bailey & Djwahl Khul set forth color schematics that differ greatly from the traditional correspondsnces...I believe it is discussed at length in their book 'A Treatise on Cosmin Fire'.
616
MichaelStaley - Mar 23, 2008 - 03:05 PM
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I haven't experimented with any particular colour schemas to date, but do use colour when building astral images. When using the LBRP, for instance, the quarterly pentagrams are visualised in colour using the straightforward attributions of yellow at East, red at South, blue at West, and black at North. I used similar colours twenty years or so ago with Reguli too.
Most of my magical work these days is via the Lam Serpent Sadhana, where the colours corresponding to each chakra are used in conjunction with the bija-mantra.
As well as visualisations, I also find it a good idea to use the corollaries across the other senses, thus building taste, sound etc into the astral constructs.
There being a variety of colour schemes, in my view it doesn't matter so much which one is chosen, and I think we develop our own divergences in the course of our work.
Proteus - Mar 23, 2008 - 03:21 PM
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Quote: › As well as visualisations, I also find it a good idea to use the corollaries across the other senses, thus building taste, sound etc into the astral constructs.
Interesting, Michael. Do you use 777 for these corollaries, some other source, or did you develop them yourself?
John
MichaelStaley - Mar 23, 2008 - 03:39 PM
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They're the standard ones, so would come from 777 and similar sources. As an example, at the East, as well as building the pentagram in yellow, I also imagine the sound of rushing air, the sensation of it on my skin, etc. At the West it would be the sound of surf crashing on the beach, the feel of water, the taste of salt water, etc. The attributions at each chakra include the senses, so again these can be built into astral images.
Best wishes,
Michael.
Iskandar - Mar 23, 2008 - 07:57 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: › When using the LBRP, for instance, the quarterly pentagrams are visualised in colour using the straightforward attributions of yellow at East, red at South, blue at West, and black at North. I used similar colours twenty years or so ago with Reguli too.
My initial magical schooling was in former Yugoslavia and everyone there took seriously what Crowley wrote in "The Book of Thoth." Describing the Atu 'The Universe' he makes the following point: "The general colour of the traditional card is subfusc; it represents the confusion and darkness of the material world. But the New Aeon has brought fullness of Light; in the Minutum Mundum, Earth is no longer black, or of mixed colours, but is of pure bright green" (p. 119). This was also observed in the Thoth Deck, where on the reverse side of each card there is a Cross, with five elemental colours: yellow for Air, red for Fire, blue for Water, white for Spirit, and GREEN for Earth.
I was very much surprised when I noticed on numerous occasions that people in North America always paint the Earth as black (on Enochian Tablets, etc.). Therefore my equal surprise at Michael's post. It's sooo Old Aeon to represent the Earth as black, guys! 
MichaelStaley - Mar 23, 2008 - 08:14 PM
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I don't share your perspective on this, Gordan. I'm sure you would not like to be taken as suggesting that everything pre-1904 is swept into the dustbin of history, but your words could easily be interpreted as such.
I doubt that Crowley was the first person to suggest green for Earth; the thinking is obvious, after all. But you do sound a little like someone who suggests that the word of Crowley on something far outweighs one's own experience. I have been using the attribution of black for earth for a long time now, irrespective of whether it is Old Aeon or not.
Suck it and see, as the bishop said to the actress.
przm28 - Mar 24, 2008 - 03:27 AM
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thanks micheal, ill experiment and get back you
Camlion - Mar 26, 2008 - 04:58 AM
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93 Gordan,
Gordan wrote: ›
MichaelStaley wrote: › When using the LBRP, for instance, the quarterly pentagrams are visualised in colour using the straightforward attributions of yellow at East, red at South, blue at West, and black at North. I used similar colours twenty years or so ago with Reguli too.
My initial magical schooling was in former Yugoslavia and everyone there took seriously what Crowley wrote in "The Book of Thoth." Describing the Atu 'The Universe' he makes the following point: "The general colour of the traditional card is subfusc; it represents the confusion and darkness of the material world. But the New Aeon has brought fullness of Light; in the Minutum Mundum, Earth is no longer black, or of mixed colours, but is of pure bright green" (p. 119). This was also observed in the Thoth Deck, where on the reverse side of each card there is a Cross, with five elemental colours: yellow for Air, red for Fire, blue for Water, white for Spirit, and GREEN for Earth.
I was very much surprised when I noticed on numerous occasions that people in North America always paint the Earth as black (on Enochian Tablets, etc.). Therefore my equal surprise at Michael's post. It's sooo Old Aeon to represent the Earth as black, guys!
I prefer the old GD four-color attribution for Earth [777:xv:32 bis], for now. It represents the lack of cohesion in Earth under the reign of Man, thus far. Green represents the ideal, the origin and, hopefully, the future, but the four-color attribution represents Earth with Man fully in the mulch, err, mix. Even black is optimistic. The four-color attribution represents Man's sense of separation from the Earth and, moreover, from Himself. It also represents Man's vain attempt to analyze and simplify rather than to endeavor to integrate with Natural Law, as it best applies to Him, by way of Thelema. It represents the often subtle conflict between Thelema and Reason. The temporary dominance of Reason over Nature and Thelema.
It is the better 'poster child' for Earth.
93 93/93
Camlion
Iskandar - Mar 26, 2008 - 05:47 AM
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93 Camlion and Michael,
I was pretty sure that the smily will make it apparent that I was joking a bit with my earlier post - especially when labeling the use of the black colour for Earth as 'sooo Old Aeon.' But seriously, given that people are of course free to experiment and make choices of their own - particularly if and when these choices work - or maybe even the other way round - my point is essentially twofold. First I do find this an interesting overlook - a Freudian slip if you want - that this particular attribution of elemental colours, as referenced in The Book of Thoth and as represented on the reverse side of each Thoth Deck card, which has green as the colour of Earth, very often seems to be neglected. Or simply overlooked. Now I don't mean to suggest that we should all do as Crowley said - far from it, really - but the Old Man did have something of importance to say on these subjects, as witnessed by our common presence on this site. Thus I find his note on the use of the colour for Earth in the New Aeon illuminating and interesting. That's all. We can all of course either take it or leave it. Second: we all witness a very much needed and urgent rise of the awareness about ecological issues and more and more people are realizing that this is one of the crucial areas of possible communal and political action. So for example we have the Green Egg, a neo-pagan magazine, hugely influential. And we have the green parties in many countries. There seems to be a global association between the colour green and the image of Earth and / or Nature in general. I am certain you catch my meaning: green is cool and important and sexy and fun and we would probably all like to have our Earth more and more green. Why not then reinforce this will, this intention, this hope - among other means - by also projecting into astral images this beautiful green as the symbolic colour of Earth? That's all I mean. It boils down to a simple law of attraction.
93 93/93
Gordan
Camlion - Mar 26, 2008 - 06:28 AM
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93 Gordon,
Gordan wrote: › 93 Camlion and Michael,
I was pretty sure that the smily will make it apparent that I was joking a bit with my earlier post - especially when labeling the use of the black colour for Earth as 'sooo Old Aeon.' But seriously, given that people are of course free to experiment and make choices of their own - particularly if and when these choices work - or maybe even the other way round - my point is essentially twofold. First I do find this an interesting overlook - a Freudian slip if you want - that this particular attribution of elemental colours, as referenced in The Book of Thoth and as represented on the reverse side of each Thoth Deck card, which has green as the colour of Earth, very often seems to be neglected. Or simply overlooked. Now I don't mean to suggest that we should all do as Crowley said - far from it, really - but the Old Man did have something of importance to say on these subjects, as witnessed by our common presence on this site. Thus I find his note on the use of the colour for Earth in the New Aeon illuminating and interesting. That's all. We can all of course either take it or leave it. Second: we all witness a very much needed and urgent rise of the awareness about ecological issues and more and more people are realizing that this is one of the crucial areas of possible communal and political action. So for example we have the Green Egg, a neo-pagan magazine, hugely influential. And we have the green parties in many countries. There seems to be a global association between the colour green and the image of Earth and / or Nature in general. I am certain you catch my meaning: green is cool and important and sexy and fun and we would probably all like to have our Earth more and more green. Why not then reinforce this will, this intention, this hope - among other means - by also projecting into astral images this beautiful green as the symbolic colour of Earth? That's all I mean. It boils down to a simple law of attraction.
93 93/93
Gordan
I respectfully disagree. If you show the ideal, 'green,' people will likely remain complacent. If you show the real, as in the ecological terror of an environment divided against itself, as in the four-color attribution, as in man vs his own nature, it is like a skull-and-crossed-bones, in effect, the 'law of repulsion.' I'm afraid that this attracts more attention. 
93 93/93
Camlion
FraterIxaxaar - Apr 11, 2008 - 09:46 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: › I haven't experimented with any particular colour schemas to date, but do use colour when building astral images. When using the LBRP, for instance, the quarterly pentagrams are visualised in colour using the straightforward attributions of yellow at East, red at South, blue at West, and black at North. I used similar colours twenty years or so ago with Reguli too.
Greetings,
Michael: Have you found that your astral images occassionally assume different colours after you've Worked with them for a longer period? This was the case for me with Reguli. The standard colours sometimes "dissolved" during conjuration and were replaced by seemingly unrelated shades. (White for water, for example, or yellow for Earth.) This phenomenon enriched my daily Work.
~93~
Ixaxaar
magispiegel - Apr 11, 2008 - 10:33 PM
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Hello,
The impressions of the use of the word 'colour' (kala, time etc.) in my personal understanding of magickal work, is that it is a word used to 'metaphysically suggest' a particular essence of transcendental experience. Colours can be viewed as signatures of 'outside' impressions e.g. praeter-human intelligence, crystallising itself upon the astral light. In yogacarya idealism, an aspect of their presence are given labels, like 'suchness' or 'thatness' e.g. tattwas, which describes a qualitative state of mobile consciousness experience. Vasubandhu describes these qualitative principles as the aggregates.
Ultimately, I see that the use of the word 'colour' in the Western Tradition is there to suggest the qualitative experiences which the adept sensually observes within the astral light i.e. colour is the substance or landscape of a successful magickal operation.
Best Wishes
Charles
Iskandar - Apr 11, 2008 - 11:54 PM
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Just a small correction: the word 'kala' does not mean colour; it may mean 'black' but not colour in general.
scrivener11 - Apr 12, 2008 - 10:09 AM
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I always use colour in my workings, I find it a very useful tool to help project the purpose I will, to create the desired effect.
As magick is a very personal affair, I believe each person will find their own colour correspondences that work for them
ALHA - Jun 04, 2008 - 09:15 AM
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DCXVI wrote: › It is not Typhonian, but Alice A. Bailey & Djwahl Khul set forth color schematics that differ greatly from the traditional correspondsnces...I believe it is discussed at length in their book 'A Treatise on Cosmin Fire'.
In Michael Bertiaux's system there are two color schemes mostly used, one called "Voodoo colors" (Earth=yellow, Water=blue, Air=green, Fire=red) and another one called "Zothyrian colors" where Earth=brown, Water=bluegreen, Air=blue and Fire=grey. As I am not familiar with the above mentioned work by Bailey, let me ask you 616 is this the color scheme discussed in the book? Or diferent one? Bertiaux's mother was Theosophist, and he lectured extensively in Theosophical Society in USA during 1960s, so he could be familiar with such a color scheme...
magispiegel - Jun 04, 2008 - 10:52 AM
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Whether one views this stream of consciousness as arising or like Michael Staley has mentioned, 'upsurging from cosmic depths'. Whether such impressions are 'outside' i.e. stellar or praeter-human, or lie 'within' the human experience i.e. cthnothic or atavistic (cerebellum), the eastern esoteric doctrines view it (consciousness) as but a stain or shadow upon the astral light.
The labelling of such observances as being a colour, flavour, tattwa, rupa, kala or aggregation etc. is only done to arouse or suggest in the aspiring adept the dependent nature of causative factors that make up an event i.e. the appearance or glamour, anchored upon the stage of emptyness.
According to the Middle Way of Buddhism, such aggregations or 'colours' are used to orientate the adept for seeing the nature of things. Hence, they go on to say that such things are relatively empty i.e. not nihilistic by nature, and at the same time, relatively absolute or phenomenal (real)....a bit like Shrodinger's Cat.
Best Wishes
Charles