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Teachers, Disciples and Students, Friends and Enemies - A Question
DNA - Jun 10, 2008 - 01:07 PM
Post subject: A Question
Following encouragement from a member, I'd like to ask a question, as I've read this section of "Outer Gateways" many, many times, and have yet to fathom it's implication:
"This is to say, their acquisition [the keys to the Outer Gateways] depends upon the ability of the initiate to mould his astral consciousness in forms -frequently zootypical- of the magical zone he intends to penetrate.."
Does this mean, then, that in order to access the Dimension of Bast, I would morph my astral form into a feline? However, as magispiegel pointed out:
"If the experience of the Mauve Zone is empty (to degree), or is the absence of absence... then, the concept of terrific beings or entities i.e. stellar gnosis, the great old one etc. which reside in this space MUST then be only allegorical suggestions? Which...through their suggestion, represent 'some kind of experience' that is oblique and existential to everyday consciousness? "
( I hope you don't mind me quoting you Charles)

Feedback would be much appreciated.
Declan
magispiegel - Jun 10, 2008 - 01:12 PM
Post subject: RE: A Question
Hi Declan,

Great thread you have started.

BTW, you missed to quote my response in full to you;

"Declan,
Yes, when astrally aligning oneself with a fetish i.e. Bast, you would have to zoomorphically shape shift astrally. This is akin to sympathetic resonance.

However, you must not confuse what Grant is saying here... Grant is talking about the 'Outer Gateway'...and the experience of this 'Outer Gateway' is described as being like AOS's neither-neither principle, the absence of absence or emptyness. Thus, the experience of the Mauve Zone is similar to sunyata (to degree) of the Madhymaka Buddhist School. You should study his chapter on Madhymaka in 'Outer Gateways'.

This posits a very interesting question, as there is a paradox here. The question being;

If the experience of the Mauve Zone is empty (to degree), or is the absence of absence... then, what about the concept of terrific beings or entities i.e. stellar gnosis, the great old ones etc. which reside in this space?..they MUST then be only allegorical suggestions? Which...through their suggestion, flavour or psycho-sensual arousal within the cosmic imaginings of the adept, can then only, represent 'some kind of experience' that is oblique and existential to everyday consciousness?

I hope this helps.

Please be free to discuss this, and our PM's i.e. what I have said, within the open forums, as it is a very interesting question."

My very best wishes

Charles

NOTE: I have added something more to my response to Declan for the forum, as it was a spontaneous response initially between patients.
ALHA - Jun 10, 2008 - 01:43 PM
Post subject: Re: A Question
DNA wrote: › Does this mean, then, that in order to access the Dimension of Bast, I would morph my astral form into a feline?


Yes, I think it is perfectly correct. Let me share some of my thoughts on this here: The main reason why we experience the world the way we do, is because we are perceiving and experiencing everything from a particular point of view. And we are identified with that particular, very basic point of view that we call "I". This is too complex subject to go here into detail, but generally our experience of the world - our mind or 'mind stuff' - is dependant on different identifications or points of view we assume in relation to all the 'otherness' or world around us...
Now, it is also a kind of an invisible prison, because we are limited by our own identifications.
In order to access broader perspective, so to say, to transcend the limitations of our given or created "I", and plunge into spheres beyond "I", or "outside the circles of time" - as our "I" is the best defined by Time - we must give up on our given points of view and assume different points of view. The most ancient technique for doing that was by assuming identities or forms of other life forms: insects, predators, birds... these days even aliens, or 'monsters from outer space'... each form of such a peculiar lycantropy opens gateways of new areas of experience and expand our consciousness... but in my personal opinion, such workings must be "under the Will" and not performed only out of curiosity, or obsession or any other negative forms of experience might result...
In my personal magical work I mostly work with animal forms of snake, dove, spider and frog... Each one of those forms can be associated with a quarter, a color, element, spirit king etc. etc. making a basis for a form of magical grimoire of a lycantropy magician...
I would like if discussion on this tread would continue, as I am interested to hear of other people's experiences with such forms of 'astral lycantropy' workings...
Camlion - Jun 10, 2008 - 05:33 PM
Post subject: Re: A Question
93 ALHA,

ALHA wrote: › each form of such a peculiar lycantropy opens gateways of new areas of experience and expand our consciousness... but in my personal opinion, such workings must be "under the Will" and not performed only out of curiosity, or obsession or any other negative forms of experience might result...


I am interested in this selective aspect of your process, and how the selection is other than arbitrary. It seems to me that such considerations are often overlooked. How do you ascertain that such a working is "under the Will?"

93 93/93
Camlion
ALHA - Jun 11, 2008 - 08:55 AM
Post subject: Re: A Question
@Camlion
This is very good and important question, thanks.
English is not my native language, but I will try my best to put my thoughts on this as clear as I can Smile
I think the best guide would be personal sense of purpose. Maybe this answer doesn't sound satisfactory, but I do not see possibility to have any sort of 'objective' parameters to decide on these matters equally for everybody... it is that internal but unmistakeable feeling of personal purpose, feeling that you are doing something right, something which is needed to be done right now and right there, which I would see as a signal that working is "under the Will".
I also used this phrase as a sort of word-play, as every assumption of a 'god-form', or assumption of a different viewpoint, is a form of Love: a form of union with something different than "I". And that Love should be "Love under Will". Very Happy
Let me try to invent an example: an esotericist conducts research on mandala of elemental quarters, and discovers that besides 4 main quarters there are also spaces in-between those, which can be visualised as occupied by very specific kinds of spiritual beings. Through further meditation-research esotericist finds a number of correspondences of those in-between spaces, and wonders about ways of entry, what modes of occultwork to employ to enter and experience those spaces. Suddenly, intuition flashes in his mind and instructs him into correspondences of animal and insect forms allocated to those spaces... Esotericist knows about astral-lycantropy, and immediately understands that in his meditation he should assume those animal/insect forms to enter the appropriate spaces... He feels it is a proper way to do.
So, in this example we see that esotericist decided to employ astral lycantropy method as part of a broader esoteric exercise, and only after his intuition guided him into that direction... that intuitive feeling, silent guidance of our inner and invisible Xerux Laughing is a sign for me that working is "under the Will"... in other words, esotericist should follow impulses and guidances that come to him from inner planes, from his Higher Self, from his spirit-guide, or his HGA (whatever terminology somebody wants to use!) and not force his way through esoteric practices based on his mundane ego decisions and desires... It is tricky, and we can always ask how someone should know if impulses received are genuine, and not just our own subconscious game with ourselves... no proper answer to that really. I would say it is only matter of experience in meditation and matter of how honest one is with himself...
Camlion - Jun 11, 2008 - 07:33 PM
Post subject: Re: A Question
93 ALHA,

ALHA wrote: › @Camlion
This is very good and important question, thanks.
English is not my native language, but I will try my best to put my thoughts on this as clear as I can Smile
I think the best guide would be personal sense of purpose. Maybe this answer doesn't sound satisfactory, but I do not see possibility to have any sort of 'objective' parameters to decide on these matters equally for everybody... it is that internal but unmistakeable feeling of personal purpose, feeling that you are doing something right, something which is needed to be done right now and right there, which I would see as a signal that working is "under the Will".
I also used this phrase as a sort of word-play, as every assumption of a 'god-form', or assumption of a different viewpoint, is a form of Love: a form of union with something different than "I". And that Love should be "Love under Will". Very Happy
Let me try to invent an example: an esotericist conducts research on mandala of elemental quarters, and discovers that besides 4 main quarters there are also spaces in-between those, which can be visualised as occupied by very specific kinds of spiritual beings. Through further meditation-research esotericist finds a number of correspondences of those in-between spaces, and wonders about ways of entry, what modes of occultwork to employ to enter and experience those spaces. Suddenly, intuition flashes in his mind and instructs him into correspondences of animal and insect forms allocated to those spaces... Esotericist knows about astral-lycantropy, and immediately understands that in his meditation he should assume those animal/insect forms to enter the appropriate spaces... He feels it is a proper way to do.
So, in this example we see that esotericist decided to employ astral lycantropy method as part of a broader esoteric exercise, and only after his intuition guided him into that direction... that intuitive feeling, silent guidance of our inner and invisible Xerux Laughing is a sign for me that working is "under the Will"... in other words, esotericist should follow impulses and guidances that come to him from inner planes, from his Higher Self, from his spirit-guide, or his HGA (whatever terminology somebody wants to use!) and not force his way through esoteric practices based on his mundane ego decisions and desires... It is tricky, and we can always ask how someone should know if impulses received are genuine, and not just our own subconscious game with ourselves... no proper answer to that really. I would say it is only matter of experience in meditation and matter of how honest one is with himself...


Thank you for the very interesting reply. No worries about your English, by the way. It is better than that of many born to it. Smile

The faculty of 'intuition,' with its direct access to Will in particular and to the Universe in general, is as vital and efficacious as is the faculty of intellect, if not more so; but it is underemphasized, ignored or outright denied in many cultures, especially in the otherwise developed countries of the world. (In the less developed countries, the faculty of intellect receives similar neglect, with debilitating results of the opposite sort. Balance is always the ideal rule, IMO.)

Ironically, from my direct experience, this faculty of 'intuition' is easily developed in most young children but, if neglected during that early developmental period, is rather difficult to get a handle on later in life. Access to it becomes more and more elusive, inconsistent and unreliable. Extraordinary means are required to restore this access, such as the array of mystical and magical disciplines and practices available, for example.

The responsibility for the development of 'intuition' in children falls to parents and early caregivers and educators who, unfortunately, in so many cases, are scarcely aware of it themselves.

I certainly agree with what you say about a personal sense of purpose. Once such has been identified, understood and assimilated, this is a reliable resource to which all considerations whatsoever should be routinely referred.

93 93/93
Camlion
Proteus - Jun 11, 2008 - 10:15 PM
Post subject:
Quote: › as I've read this section of "Outer Gateways" many, many times, and have yet to fathom it's implication


Why conjecture when we could simply ask the author?

John
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