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Teachers, Disciples and Students, Friends and Enemies - Qliphoth Music Keys
Baphomet111 - Aug 21, 2008 - 06:12 AM
Post subject: Qliphoth Music Keys
I'm working with the Nightside and am researching all avenues to get a good feeling for each. If you've read Nightside of Eden by Grant, you would know he prescribes musical keys of which the invocations should at least start to be sounded. The problem: B# is used. There is no B#. The next note up from B is C. Does anyone have any information on this? --Fr. A.P.O.
Tiger - Aug 21, 2008 - 01:35 PM
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Could possibly be a B# Locrian modality involved. (7th note of C# scale)
sharps go forward, flats go backwards
OKontrair - Aug 21, 2008 - 01:41 PM
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Nah! He's just warning you to Be Sharp.
OK
kidneyhawk - Aug 21, 2008 - 02:26 PM
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Quote: ›
Be Sharp
Now THAT is funny! 
Anticredos - Aug 21, 2008 - 07:57 PM
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The 'keys' of the Qliphoth have always been confusing to me. To go to basics - what does Grant even mean by 'key'? The word 'key' suggests notions of tonality rather than a specific musical notes, for example the 'key' of C (major) = C D E F G A B. It seems from the footnote to Amprodias that by 'key' he means 'note', although personally I find the idea of 'notes' less symbolically appealing, since what consitutes, for example, an 'A' has changed throughout history (for example A=410hz and the modern standard of 440). I think that notions of key or modality are far more profound since it is all about the actual symbolism of the intervals that stem from a selected point in the frequency continuum.
This digression aside, B# is found in scores on occasion - you are correct - it is essentailly C. In some circumstances of musical notation it is used as the enharmonic spelling for C, for example in complex tonal writing where you might also find double sharps and double flats. However, I don't think this makes sense in the context of Grant's work - I think maybe Grant actually meant to put B flat here.
Anticredos - Aug 21, 2008 - 07:57 PM
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kidneyhawk wrote: ›
Quote: ›
Be Sharp
Now THAT is funny!
Wasn't that the joke in the episode of the Simpsons when Homer forms a barbershop quartet?!
Anticredos - Aug 21, 2008 - 08:50 PM
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Anticredos wrote: › In some circumstances of musical notation it is used as the enharmonic spelling for C, for example in complex tonal writing where you might also find double sharps and double flats.
- or, as previously mentioned in the key of C# major, where a B# is used to preserve the shape of the scale, so that you're not always switching between C nat and C#. So I guess he could be talking about the a key beginning on the VII step of C# major, but if so: why doesn't he mention major or minor in relation to the 'keys' in his text? Or are we to assume they are all major?
Kevin_Ikari - Aug 21, 2008 - 10:40 PM
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Anticredos wrote: › It seems from the footnote to Amprodias that by 'key' he means 'note', although personally I find the idea of 'notes' less symbolically appealing, since what consitutes, for example, an 'A' has changed throughout history (for example A=410hz and the modern standard of 440). I think that notions of key or modality are far more profound since it is all about the actual symbolism of the intervals that stem from a selected point in the frequency continuum.
Oh man! Time to bust out some gematria!
Baphomet111 - Aug 22, 2008 - 05:37 AM
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Thanks everyone -- I did forget that Homer's barbershop quartette was name The Be Sharps. Their hit was 'Baby on Board'. It also ended with a Beatles-esque show on top of Moe's Tavern.
You know, I didn't think about it in relation to different keys and the necessity to write notes like E# or B#. But this is a interesting thing: what does Grant mean by these? In The Middle Pillar by Regardie there is a section on musical Qabalah where he equates words and letters with musical notes. Either way, I have my own ideas on how to go about all this, but now have some new direction. Thanks everyone!
Walterfive - Aug 22, 2008 - 03:10 PM
Post subject: Re: Qliphoth Music Keys
Baphomet111 wrote: › I'm working with the Nightside and am researching all avenues to get a good feeling for each. If you've read Nightside of Eden by Grant, you would know he prescribes musical keys of which the invocations should at least start to be sounded. The problem: B# is used. There is no B#. The next note up from B is C.
Precisely. Purest supposition on my behalf, but I always figured he's alluding to the legendary "Lost Chord." The natural seventh. Some people think these chords (there are several on the scale) are on the wavelength of the Chakras. (Spirit tells me you might find that helpful?)
Grant's work seems full of these sort of "impossibles". It's as if he's referring to a sidereal reality where Cthulu and the Necronomicon are real & actual instead of invented literary devices, and there's actually a key of B#.
Uni_Verse - Aug 22, 2008 - 04:25 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: Qliphoth Music Keys
B# is of a higher pitch.
Tones which are in 'agreement' after the octave have frequencies in a ratio of 3:2 (or 1.5).
However, to create the 'circle' of semi-tones a factor of 1.4983 is used.
Were you to use the actual ratio of 1.5, you would come upon your B#.
Creating a spiral instead of a circle.
Baphomet111 - Sep 02, 2008 - 02:27 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Qliphoth Music Keys
Uni_Verse wrote: › B# is of a higher pitch.
Tones which are in 'agreement' after the octave have frequencies in a ratio of 3:2 (or 1.5).
However, to create the 'circle' of semi-tones a factor of 1.4983 is used.
Were you to use the actual ratio of 1.5, you would come upon your B#.
Creating a spiral instead of a circle.
very very interesting concept. enlightenment and understanding comes from a spiral path-- in some teachings.
Walterfive - Sep 02, 2008 - 01:55 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Qliphoth Music Keys
Baphomet111 wrote: ›
Uni_Verse wrote: › B# is of a higher pitch.
Tones which are in 'agreement' after the octave have frequencies in a ratio of 3:2 (or 1.5).
However, to create the 'circle' of semi-tones a factor of 1.4983 is used.
Were you to use the actual ratio of 1.5, you would come upon your B#.
Creating a spiral instead of a circle.
very very interesting concept. enlightenment and understanding comes from a spiral path-- in some teachings.
That is because space itself is curved. My Minerval Sister OzTech claimed that it wasn't a spiral, it was a double-helix. As above, so below... she could be right...
Etu_Malku - Sep 14, 2008 - 09:30 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: Qliphoth Music Keys
If you're not using equal temperament or 12 note scales then there are B#'s
I play fretless guitar and study Middle Eastern music, we have B#'s
Though I don't think that is what Grant is getting at.
I haven't read Nightside (I should now), does Grant explain how he arrived at these musical associations?
Ford goes into associations between the Qliphoth and musical frequencies
Maybe you might find some answers here . . . http://www.musicofkabbalah.com/
Uni_Verse - Sep 15, 2008 - 02:50 AM
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Walterfive wrote: ›
That is because space itself is curved. My Minerval Sister OzTech claimed that it wasn't a spiral, it was a double-helix. As above, so below... she could be right...
Space-time is curved 
Each "space" marks a different "time" and vice versa.
Though the idea of a double-helix is interesting, I tend to think of it as hyperbolic (ie, a hyperbola).