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-- Liber AL II;20
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phthah |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Sep 13, 2007 - 02:14 AM
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Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 179
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93,
Quote: › AUM418 Wrote: I dont like the idea 'superceded' here for some reason. The other states aren't 'superceded' they are just different. Crowley once said that Dreaming : Waking :: Waking : Samadhi, i.e. Waking consciousness appears to look like a deep slumber compared to the (super)consciousness of Samadhi.
Sorry to butt in! I just thought this was an interesting exchange of ideas between AUM418 and Azidonis and I wanted to add something. Of course, where Crowley once said that "Dreaming : Waking :: Waking : Samadhi is from "John-a-Dreams" in Liber 333. So I thought I would post it, as the chapter is interesting in this context. Here it is:
JOHN-A-DREAMS
Dreams are imperfections of sleep; even so is con-
sciousness the imperfection of waking.
Dreams are impurities in the circulation of the blood;
even so is consciousness a disorder of life.
Dreams are without proportion, without good
sense, without truth; so also is consciousness.
Awake from dream, the truth is known: awake
from waking, the Truth is-The Unknown.
93 93/93 |
_________________
"There is no grace: there is no guilt:
This is the Law: DO WHAT THOU WILT!"
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Uni_Verse |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 13, 2007 - 03:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Posts: 332
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Well.. there is shamanism. The ecstasy and joy of song and dance  |
_________________
You are missing the point
There is only one verse, sung in infinite ways.
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Azidonis |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 13, 2007 - 09:46 AM
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Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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Wizardiaoan wrote: › I am beginning to wonder if you are capable of saying anything useful. You can help yourself by actually retaining the content of people's posts. For in mine I critiqued that the musical form of song is unlikely to lead to total success, and that the specific form will have to change to address the paricular moment. Thus the form that will lead to success is not a song and will vary from Working to Working.
93,
Yea, I read all of that, took it in, and to be honest, I would probably be a little more serious about it if I actually believed that you reached "the ultimate attainment for 3 seconds" while playing instruments on acid after what was it, two years of work.
So instead... If what I say isn't useful to you, I could really care less. It may be useful to others, and as you have your mind set that your consciousness disolved into 0, what would you be able to use of mine anyway? There are some on these boards that know how I post, and they seem quite comfortable with it. I admit to being a bit snide to your music idea, but it was just a sarcastic way of saying that I don't agree. Oh well, I won't apologize.
I do read the posts. Yes, even yours. I've read some really wonderful posts on these boards and some extremely boring ones. I've read the funny ones, the challenging ones, and even some absurd ones. And through all of it, I still have my own opinion. I personally don't think one can pop a gel tab and play an instrument until the realization of forgetting what one was doing and who one was - 3 seconds ago - until one remembered, and call it "the ultimate attainment" or even Samadhi. For some reason, the claim (if true) seems to cheapen the idea of Samadhi entirely. As for the 'vision'... you were on acid for cryin' out loud. In order to begin to believe your claim, I would have to ask for more evidence from sober experiences. Since I really don't care that much, I'll stick to the fascinating idea of the enlightenment song... it was more entertaining to me at least. Concerning music in general, I believe it to be a tool, like any other prop one would use in order to assist the focus of consciousness.
93 93/93
P.S. phthah - Thanks for the reference to Liber 333.
P.P.S. AUM418 - Thanks for the clarification concerning Pratyahara. |
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Aum418 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 13, 2007 - 05:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 01, 2006
Posts: 812
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Kalki93 wrote: › I chant Hare Krsna and retain the Thelemic idealism as well, this works for me in attaining Samadhi. I've found it works the best. I've noticed how Thelema can be understood from many different angles. Will is our wills and the Will of God in relation one to another. We don't have to be too dogmatic to understand that , it gets boring that way anyway. Time and time again I find myself reading the Bible and getting frustrated because the time of the Antichrist has been going on ever since the Kaliyuga came about over 5000 years ago. I don't understand why most people do not understand this.
The Antichrist came 3000 years before the Christ? I think most poeple dont understand this because its completed unfounded... |
_________________
.: http://iao131.cjb.net :.
-~: The Journal of Thelemic Studies :~-
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Wizardiaoan |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2007 - 06:30 AM
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Joined: Aug 28, 2007
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Wizardiaoan wrote: › I am beginning to wonder if you are capable of saying anything useful.
I have stopped wondering. |
_________________
Wizardiaoan
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Azidonis |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 14, 2007 - 09:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 05, 2006
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Location: Ellensburg, WA
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Wizardiaoan wrote: › Wizardiaoan wrote: › I am beginning to wonder if you are capable of saying anything useful.
I have stopped wondering.
93,
Glad you have come to a viable conclusion. I see you have learned how to use the quote feature proficiently as well. You're welcome.
93 93/93 |
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Kalki93 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 16, 2007 - 09:10 PM
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Joined: Sep 11, 2007
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We are in the Age of Kaliyuga which is the Antichrist's Age! So there is no need to be hung up on Revelation or the end times and all of that nonsense. Love is the Law and not speculating.
The Antichrist manifested here 3000 years before Jesus Christ and not Christ or Christos or Krishna.
Jesus Christ just came to resolve the conflict that we have been dealing with ever since this Age came.
That is what the spiritual master does! |
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Kalki93 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 16, 2007 - 09:12 PM
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For more on Kali (and I don't meant Goddess Kali who is a wrathful manifestation of Durga who removes offenses) check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_%28Demon%29k this out
It makes things very clear about what we are dealing with in this Age, more of the Spirit of Hypocrisy than Love.
Haribol, and Do What Thou Wilt! |
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Aum418 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 17, 2007 - 12:16 AM
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Kalki93 wrote: › For more on Kali (and I don't meant Goddess Kali who is a wrathful manifestation of Durga who removes offenses) check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_%28Demon%29k this out
It makes things very clear about what we are dealing with in this Age, more of the Spirit of Hypocrisy than Love.
Haribol, and Do What Thou Wilt!
You can project all you want onto "this Age" and say its full of hypocrisy and such, but the world is a mirror wherein who sees muck is muck. We can say were dealing with te Spirit of Hypocrisy but that will just create a self-fulfilling prophecy. There is a term in recovery programs that is 'acting like its true' where one acts as if one had already recoverd from teh problem (in this case, the problem of life being viewed as sorrowful and full of hypocrisy and demons etc.) - this helps manifest the qualities more naturally, ad the psyche takes immediate cues for things you treat as real.
65 & 210,
111-418 |
_________________
.: http://iao131.cjb.net :.
-~: The Journal of Thelemic Studies :~-
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Kalki93 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 17, 2007 - 11:56 PM
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| Not true at all. I did not make any of this up. What you are saying is in your mind and what you need to learn from and not me. |
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asclepio |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 18, 2007 - 06:04 AM
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93
Two things,
First, Aum418,
Great posts, I'm a fan, you really know you're books and that's a must sometimes. Even though I find your responses to be a little bitter and dry, but that's my perspective. I really think you're a valuable thelemite who shares what he knows (more than the "egotistical" approach you're sometimes given).
I agree with what you say to Kali about one perceiving the world to be such and such when it really is one percieving oneself (the world is man, little Heidegger comes in handy often), so I'd like your view on the following point:
Sometimes, after a little yoga and meditation, although I haven't reach anything too grand, I get the following sensations:
1.- I'm in a strange state of being comfortable anywhere while doing anything, a bit un-attached of the rest of the world. It can be a bit of an obstacle on my daily life, since I must be sharp and political at work or college. Is this state a good thing or not?
2.- I get the same feeling as it was described earlier on the same post about being a piece of a major puzzle, a sense of determination, of doing something you are "destined" to do, even if it is a mundane event and I can't imagine it's repercussions. When I get that, is it instinct?, somekind of astral instinct that "knows", or possess some intuition of my place in relation of my True Will?, or is it some psichological by-product of meditation?
Anyway, my two points, my two questions, and that's all.
93 93/93
Oh, and I almost forgot, Kalki, calm down when you write on this forum. We're all here to learn, share and expierence, not to climb up to some pedestal and go "thou must do this or that because God says so...". I bring this up because when you say stuff like "learn from life, not from books", what it sounds like (at least to me, although I'm sure I'm not alone in this) is this "learn from MY life, not from books". Well, it's just a piece of advise, nothing more. |
_________________
I:30. This is the creation of the world, that the pain of division is as nothing, and the joy of dissolution all.
http://stores.lulu.com/ohem
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Azidonis |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 18, 2007 - 07:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 05, 2006
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Location: Ellensburg, WA
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Kalki93 wrote: › We are in the Age of Kaliyuga which is the Antichrist's Age! So there is no need to be hung up on Revelation or the end times and all of that nonsense. Love is the Law and not speculating.
The Antichrist manifested here 3000 years before Jesus Christ and not Christ or Christos or Krishna.
Jesus Christ just came to resolve the conflict that we have been dealing with ever since this Age came.
That is what the spiritual master does!
93,
I agree with someone's statement above that this just make no sense what-so-ever. The "Christ" wasn't even an idea in that form under that name until "he" supposedly existed. That said, your claim is that the "anti-idea" [your words Antichrist] came 3,000 years before the idea! It makes no sense. Further, didn't it take a large number of years (like 200 or so? ..don't remember) after the so-called "death", before Cristianity actually became a religion? We can go on with this... the Jews and the idea of a Messiah, the Romans and their ideas of worship, which didn't include this "Jesus" figure at all, and if it did, it was only to make a "holy example" out of the dude by nailing him to a stick... how wonderful to die a martyr for a cause that no one has a clue about. This sound like what, a cult right? What even more sad about this, is that the Christ is sometimes equated with Dionysus, and also... Hare Krisha. Imagine that. Dead gods with dead rituals... and we have their "Ipsissimus" here preaching to us how we should view our own individul worlds...
This whole idea really popped into my head 30 years before I was born though... the Anti-Idea of it anyway.
93 93/93 |
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Azidonis |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 18, 2007 - 08:02 AM
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Location: Ellensburg, WA
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93 asclepio,
asclepio wrote: ›
Sometimes, after a little yoga and meditation, although I haven't reach anything too grand, I get the following sensations:
1.- I'm in a strange state of being comfortable anywhere while doing anything, a bit un-attached of the rest of the world. It can be a bit of an obstacle on my daily life, since I must be sharp and political at work or college. Is this state a good thing or not?
In my admittedly limited experience, I recall a run-in with this very thing a few years ago. Essentially, too much time was spent "off in the clouds" than "paying attention to reality", which essentially led to quite a few set-backs. It would seem that there is no danger in having one's head in the clouds if one's feet can also remain on the ground. The line between "dreamer" and "do-er" is essentially the question. Complacency is also something that needs mention as a general negative in this case. One should simply "not settle". Even the HGA is surpassed by subsequent attainments, as Dhyana is surpassed by Samadhi, trotting is surpassed by galloping, etc.
Quote: ›
2.- I get the same feeling as it was described earlier on the same post about being a piece of a major puzzle, a sense of determination, of doing something you are "destined" to do, even if it is a mundane event and I can't imagine it's repercussions. When I get that, is it instinct?, somekind of astral instinct that "knows", or possess some intuition of my place in relation of my True Will?, or is it some psichological by-product of meditation?
Perhaps its simple motivation that comes from Within? The awareness that one is indeed a part of this world as a whole, and that one's function within this world determines the ultimate outcome for that one and those affiliated with him or her? Therefore, rise up and awake!
Sounds cool at least. Just my two cents.
93 93/93 |
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Kalki93 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 18, 2007 - 10:52 PM
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asclepio wrote: › 93
Two things,
First, Aum418,
Great posts, I'm a fan, you really know you're books and that's a must sometimes. Even though I find your responses to be a little bitter and dry, but that's my perspective. I really think you're a valuable thelemite who shares what he knows (more than the "egotistical" approach you're sometimes given).
I agree with what you say to Kali about one perceiving the world to be such and such when it really is one percieving oneself (the world is man, little Heidegger comes in handy often), so I'd like your view on the following point:
Sometimes, after a little yoga and meditation, although I haven't reach anything too grand, I get the following sensations:
1.- I'm in a strange state of being comfortable anywhere while doing anything, a bit un-attached of the rest of the world. It can be a bit of an obstacle on my daily life, since I must be sharp and political at work or college. Is this state a good thing or not?
2.- I get the same feeling as it was described earlier on the same post about being a piece of a major puzzle, a sense of determination, of doing something you are "destined" to do, even if it is a mundane event and I can't imagine it's repercussions. When I get that, is it instinct?, somekind of astral instinct that "knows", or possess some intuition of my place in relation of my True Will?, or is it some psichological by-product of meditation?
Anyway, my two points, my two questions, and that's all.
93 93/93
Oh, and I almost forgot, Kalki, calm down when you write on this forum. We're all here to learn, share and expierence, not to climb up to some pedestal and go "thou must do this or that because God says so...". I bring this up because when you say stuff like "learn from life, not from books", what it sounds like (at least to me, although I'm sure I'm not alone in this) is this "learn from MY life, not from books". Well, it's just a piece of advise, nothing more.
Asclepio, you are talking about the same thing I was saying about the Supersoul.
Just suppose Aleister Crowley knew this as well but related it in a more in an atheistic mindstate to relate to the atheists because they could not even conceive of being devoted to anyone but themselves.
I'm not saying to do something because God says so, that is your illusion and your fear because anytime I mention God I get a reaction.
I'm not saying learn from My life, not from books, learn from your own which includes everything and everyone you relate to and then rely on spiritual common-sense.
That's just good advice, if I know something I will not keep it to myself. Whatever has been revealed to me I will tell others to help them. I'm not here to tear apart Thelemic understanding.
I am a Thelemite as well as a Hare Krsna but I am also Myself.
Why do I need to calm down, you don't believe in Energized Enthusiasm?
That is the best.
[quote="Azidonis"]
93,
I agree with someone's statement above that this just make no sense what-so-ever. The "Christ" wasn't even an idea in that form under that name until "he" supposedly existed. That said, your claim is that the "anti-idea" [your words Antichrist] came 3,000 years before the idea! It makes no sense. Further, didn't it take a large number of years (like 200 or so? ..don't remember) after the so-called "death", before Cristianity actually became a religion? We can go on with this... the Jews and the idea of a Messiah, the Romans and their ideas of worship, which didn't include this "Jesus" figure at all, and if it did, it was only to make a "holy example" out of the dude by nailing him to a stick... how wonderful to die a martyr for a cause that no one has a clue about. This sound like what, a cult right? What even more sad about this, is that the Christ is sometimes equated with Dionysus, and also... Hare Krisha. Imagine that. Dead gods with dead rituals... and we have their "Ipsissimus" here preaching to us how we should view our own individul worlds...
This whole idea really popped into my head 30 years before I was born though... the Anti-Idea of it anyway.
93 93/93
Christ is not an Idea it is Krsna who is God and He is also listed in the Thelemic Saints! I was not talking about Christianity and their view of the antichrist in Revelation, I was talking how the antichrist of vedic understanding Kali is already reigning in this Age and that is a better understand than to suppose that the antichrist might come via Christian understanding which is inaccurate. Many other antichrists have also come over and over again and that is the way it has been, I'm sure there are already more.
Christianity is not a cult, since when does "Love your enemies, and Love others as yourself." denote a cult.
A cult reacts to things they don't understand and tries to promote their own lies for the sake of manipulating others.
When I perceive the world I don't perceive myself, I see others who are lost and caught up in their false sense of reality. That is not my projection.
Awareness from within involves knowing the Paratmatma in the Heart. In other words study Liber Samekh and then it is much more clear.
If I am wrong then why does this work for me? So I should say nothing because I don't agree with everyone else here?
I am simply on another level which is one of transcendence and not just arriving there, Magick is about arriving, the transcendence comes later when one is free from words or any other material chains.
If one is truly into Thelema they will learn the value of Devotion.
I tried to create Thelema in my life in my own way but it was all Destroyed as it was meant to be and nothing is more Merciful than that.
Yes, deem me a preacher, that is such naivety. Labels. Calling other names, so that is magick these days I suppose.
Don't expect me to fit whatever pigeon-holing you do with others that should fit the paradigm of what you arrive at via your own ego-centered understanding of Thelema.
False Ego is dead.
R.I.P. |
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Azidonis |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 19, 2007 - 10:06 AM
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Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Status: Offline
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93,
Kalki93 wrote: ›
Christ is not an Idea it is Krsna who is God and He is also listed in the Thelemic Saints!
Well then, you must forgive me! Incidentally, my experience with Hare Krishna is walking around Hong Kong getting offered these little gold-wrapped cards by people in robes saying "Here this will bring you good luck, from Krishna". And if you let them, they will continue on with their little spiel they tell you all of this garbage about Krishna and how he is so great and that he is somehow locked away into this little item. After they finish their little skit, and if they get you to accept their item, they promptly ask you to pay $20 HKD for it as a donation to their society. The funniest thing is watching the locals... they will all look at you and shake their heads no, or even try to take the item out of your hand in order to make you get rid of it!
Personally, I don't give a damn about the list of "Saints", or Hare Krishna... just not my cup of tea. I don't go galavanting around about it though.
Quote: ›
I was not talking about Christianity and their view of the antichrist in Revelation, I was talking how the antichrist of vedic understanding Kali is already reigning in this Age and that is a better understand than to suppose that the antichrist might come via Christian understanding which is inaccurate. Many other antichrists have also come over and over again and that is the way it has been, I'm sure there are already more.
What I don't understand is what place Christ, or Krishna, or any other of these dead gods have any place on this forum.
Quote: ›
Christianity is not a cult, since when does "Love your enemies, and Love others as yourself." denote a cult.
A cult reacts to things they don't understand and tries to promote their own lies for the sake of manipulating others.
Are you f$#%ing serious? Christianity is not a cult? I won't even debate this one...
Quote: ›
When I perceive the world I don't perceive myself, I see others who are lost and caught up in their false sense of reality. That is not my projection.
Wrong. That IS your projection. This is what some of the others here have been telling you for the past week. Who are you to judge anyone at all? And who are you to do this and still call yourself a Thelemite?
Quote: ›
Awareness from within involves knowing the Paratmatma in the Heart. In other words study Liber Samekh and then it is much more clear.
I won't... this should be better left for someone else to criticize.
Quote: ›
If I am wrong then why does this work for me?
It may work for you if you live in a world where you are not challenged on a daily basis, a world where your beliefs and your goals are not met with constant ordeals. You've made many claims in your short stay here. You made the claim of a very lofty Grade. You've made the claim that almost everyone here has a distorted view of their own versions of reality, and others. You've made the claim that you "don't percieve the world myself, I see others who are caught up in their own false sense of reality", and so on. You've been challenged over these and other accusations that you have made constantly since you arrived. Yet, you continually state that it is not your projection.
Well again, I have to contend, whether I be proven right or wrong, that it is definitely your projection. One thing that must be understood is that there is no "group consciousness" or "group anything" here on Lashtal. It is an online community and these forums are used in order for people to share ideas. Members consist of various people from all over the world. There are some here who practice magick, some who only study it. Everyone here is in their own individual stage of evolution. For you to say that everyone's thinking and etc. is messed up just because you don't agree is obiously a bold move, and could be a complete self projection.
Quote: ›
So I should say nothing because I don't agree with everyone else here?
You should say what you Will. However, keep in mind that you aren't speaking to one person when the language used is collective.
Quote: ›
I am simply on another level which is one of transcendence and not just arriving there, Magick is about arriving, the transcendence comes later when one is free from words or any other material chains.
How about this? Very simply, no one cares what level you are on. As stated above, there are thousands of member on Lashtal. They range from "nobodys" like myself, to some very prominent people. What always has interested me most is watching people similar to myself share ideas and interact, while the "more prominent" people remain virtually silent here. As it should be. Don't asusme that there isn't work going on behind the scenes, and don't assume that everything you see is everything you are going to get. And please don't try and perform the awful idea of trying to take the varying evolutionary states of each individual here into your own hands by writing as though we are all a collective. If you truly are on the level you claim to be, then you should know all of this. No one comes out from behind the curtains without being introduced, begins to tell everyone how wrong and narrow they are, and expects a hearty welcome, or any kind of acceptance. This is common courtesy here, and if you do have the connection to the love you say you do, perhaps you will see this. You don't walk into a party and begin trying to slap people in the face for no good reason other than you feel they aren't dresed for the occasion. It's simple ethics.
Quote: ›
If one is truly into Thelema they will learn the value of Devotion.
Each Star will learn the value of Devotion in Its proper Orbit. Again, who are you to decide which of us knows and doesn't know the value of Devotion? Just because we don't run around chanting Hare Krishna all day?
Quote: ›
I tried to create Thelema in my life in my own way but it was all Destroyed as it was meant to be and nothing is more Merciful than that.
Good for you.
Quote: ›
Yes, deem me a preacher, that is such naivety. Labels. Calling other names, so that is magick these days I suppose.
Far from it. You initiated the idea, by "preaching to the choir." Might as well become ordained, along with your list of Saints.
Quote: ›
Don't expect me to fit whatever pigeon-holing you do with others that should fit the paradigm of what you arrive at via your own ego-centered understanding of Thelema.
It's not pigeon-holding. It's common sense and simple ethics as said above. As for the "Ego-centered" remark... if this post were ego-centered, it would've went a completely different direction. That's all there is to it.
Quote: ›
False Ego is dead.
R.I.P.
Good for you. Prove it. Show it.
93 93/93,
Az |
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asclepio |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 19, 2007 - 01:21 PM
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Posts: 164
Status: Offline
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93
Azidonis,
Thanks for the comments, there's something I don't understand, probably because english is not my first language, what do you mean by this?:
Quote: › The line between "dreamer" and "do-er" is essentially the question. Complacency is also something that needs mention as a general negative in this case. One should simply "not settle". Even the HGA is surpassed by subsequent attainments, as Dhyana is surpassed by Samadhi, trotting is surpassed by galloping, etc.
What do you mean by complacency?, You mean I should try and not stay for too long in that state of my head in the clouds? I guess what you say about balance, about having the head in the sky, the feet on the ground makes perfect sense.
And also,
Quote: › The awareness that one is indeed a part of this world as a whole, and that one's function within this world determines the ultimate outcome for that one and those affiliated with him or her? Therefore, rise up and awake!
That's exactly what I meant. Here's an example, sometimes I feel, I have the intuiton that I "must" talk to a person, get close to him (or her), I don't know why, so I wouldn't call it motivation, it isn't obsesion either. At the same time I "felt" like getting close to that person I felt like reading Thot's Tarot, eventually both intuitons lead to a wonderful expierence where my experience with that person and the knowledge of the tarot helped me grow a lot as a person. Is this normal? I don't think it's a bad thing, then again I have no idea what it is at all.
Kalki,
Quote: › Asclepio, you are talking about the same thing I was saying about the Supersoul.
Just suppose Aleister Crowley knew this as well but related it in a more in an atheistic mindstate to relate to the atheists because they could not even conceive of being devoted to anyone but themselves.
This is what I mean Kalki, when I said "calm down", I didn't mean the enthusiasm, it's a spanish way of saying "take it easy". As general advise, don't tell a thelemite that they're not devoted, since thelema is individualistic, we just can't "guess" what the other is thinking.
And the whole atheist approach is wrong, atheism is senseless, I'm talking about it in a philosophical sense (after all, that's what I study), Thelema truly is beyond the separation of "theistic versus atheist". I can understand this, perhaps you should try it.
And the devotion issue... You're just wrong about that. Maybe it is true that there are some egotistical thelemites out there, but there is devotion, the ritual is always unto Nuit, I'm particularly devoted as a matter of fact. Maybe too devoted, but I've done some wonderful life-changing magick through devotion to Nuit. As a matter of fact I'm a bit of a "puritan" or "conservative" when it comes to black magick, anything that is not done to achieve the sacred goal is black magick, I take that stuff very seriously in every aspect of my life.
That's what I mean with "calm down", take it easy and remember this, you don't know everything (no one does), and you don't know what other people feel and think, like when you say:
Quote: › I'm not saying to do something because God says so, that is your illusion and your fear because anytime I mention God I get a reaction.
All of a sudden you know I feel something, fear in this case. It's not advisable to pretend to know what others feel, specially in an internet forum. And I learn from my own life, that's precisely why I'm a thelemite, not a Hare Krishna, but it if works for you that's great. Let others be, that's what I say.
Oh, and if by "energized enthusiasm" you mean taking drugs, be careful, it's dangerous, then again it's your life and you decide (and I'm not saying you're on drugs, it was an advice that's all).
93 93/93 |
_________________
I:30. This is the creation of the world, that the pain of division is as nothing, and the joy of dissolution all.
http://stores.lulu.com/ohem
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 19, 2007 - 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 01, 2007
Posts: 56
Location: Rainy Maine
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Kalki93 wrote: › Aleister Crowley knew this as well but related it in a more in an atheistic mindstate to relate to the atheists because they could not even conceive of being devoted to anyone but themselves.
On a similar note, could a rabid theist conceive of that devotion of secular humanists for their fellow humans in the absence of god(s)?
Kalki93 wrote: › If I am wrong then why does this work for me?
Perception and reality are not necessarily the same.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/20 ... rain.shtml
If what you're doing works for you, that's great. But don't expect people to gasp in awe when you jump out of your hermit cave and claim to be transcendent of everyone and their "false sense of reality". It's naive on your part to not expect to be shown directly to the House of Mirrors. I'm sure you will disagree (enthusiastically), but to me your posts have offered little more than the same "me me me" false egoism you criticize.
asclepio wrote: › As general advise, don't tell a thelemite that they're not devoted, since thelema is individualistic, we just can't "guess" what the other is thinking.
And the whole atheist approach is wrong, atheism is senseless
Atheism is no more or less senseless than theism - it is a matter of perspective. I'm sure you understand this as your follow-up statement embraces Thelema as beyond the separation. So I'm wondering why you'd even make that comment? As you said we can't guess what the other is thinking.
asclepio wrote: › Thelema truly is beyond the separation of "theistic versus atheist". I can understand this, perhaps you should try it. |
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Azidonis |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 05:40 AM
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93 asclepio,
asclepio wrote: › 93
Azidonis,
Thanks for the comments, there's something I don't understand, probably because english is not my first language, what do you mean by this?:
Azidonis wrote: › ]The line between "dreamer" and "do-er" is essentially the question. Complacency is also something that needs mention as a general negative in this case. One should simply "not settle". Even the HGA is surpassed by subsequent attainments, as Dhyana is surpassed by Samadhi, trotting is surpassed by galloping, etc.
What do you mean by complacency?, You mean I should try and not stay for too long in that state of my head in the clouds? I guess what you say about balance, about having the head in the sky, the feet on the ground makes perfect sense.
Perhaps I cannot do much better than to offer the following, from Liber Tzaddi, " 40. My adepts stand upright; their head above the heavens, their feet below the hells." This wonderful Class A verse naturally can be interpreted in many different ways and applied to many different situations. One thing that helped me out, and it may seem kind of silly, was the phrase "As a god goes, I go". Keeping simple humility in mind, I used this phrase, along with the idea that "gods" are essentially "goers", I made a sort of pneumonic, which also corresponded nicely with the Ankh, or sandle strap. Basically, I told myself that I could sit around dreaming of things all day, or I could spend my time doing them. Which is the more effective use of energy? Which is more productive to the Great Work? So every morning when I woke up and got ready for work, the last thing I did was put my shoes or boots on (since they were by the door). Putting all of that together helped me to influence my own mind that Doing is a very large part of "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law." It's easy to get carried off in a dream, but much more fulfilling to be able to visualize the dream and remain focused, thereby realizing the potential in the dream.
In short, I think you got the idea just fine.
asclepio wrote: › And also,
Azidonis wrote: › The awareness that one is indeed a part of this world as a whole, and that one's function within this world determines the ultimate outcome for that one and those affiliated with him or her? Therefore, rise up and awake!
That's exactly what I meant. Here's an example, sometimes I feel, I have the intuiton that I "must" talk to a person, get close to him (or her), I don't know why, so I wouldn't call it motivation, it isn't obsesion either. At the same time I "felt" like getting close to that person I felt like reading Thot's Tarot, eventually both intuitons lead to a wonderful expierence where my experience with that person and the knowledge of the tarot helped me grow a lot as a person. Is this normal? I don't think it's a bad thing, then again I have no idea what it is at all. 93 93/93
It may sound cliche', and probably is to an extent, but when usually when I am speaking with friends about the idea of 'True Will' I give the example of it being "that little voice inside of your head that always speaks to you, but for some reason you don't like to listen!" The voice seems to be right almost all of the time though, and almost everyone can relate to the analogy. They usually have very many ideas which relate to it, and when put in perspective with the idea of the Holy Guardian Angel, it begins to make much more sense.
Also keep in mind that as you are allowing yourself to be more receptive and thereby sensitive to subtler forces and experiences, your intuition also will become more prominent in some cases, and can be of great assistance. It has always been helpful for me to keep a noticable distinction between "the Voice" and "intuition". Anyway, this is just stuff that I have personally found useful thus far, and I am in no way an authority on the subject (save that for the Angel), so I'll be shutting up now.
Help this helps.
93 93/93 |
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asclepio |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 07:50 PM
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93
Azidonis,
Thanks for the reply. It's a good point, doing is essential to "do what thou...". Funny how we can live our lifes with little or no intuition at all, or not listening to "the little voice", and when we start, the world itself looks different. Thanks for the help.
93 93/93 |
_________________
I:30. This is the creation of the world, that the pain of division is as nothing, and the joy of dissolution all.
http://stores.lulu.com/ohem
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Kalki93 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 20, 2007 - 09:47 PM
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Azidonis wrote: › 93,
Kalki93 wrote: ›
Christ is not an Idea it is Krsna who is God and He is also listed in the Thelemic Saints!
Well then, you must forgive me! Incidentally, my experience with Hare Krishna is walking around Hong Kong getting offered these little gold-wrapped cards by people in robes saying "Here this will bring you good luck, from Krishna". And if you let them, they will continue on with their little spiel they tell you all of this garbage about Krishna and how he is so great and that he is somehow locked away into this little item. After they finish their little skit, and if they get you to accept their item, they promptly ask you to pay $20 HKD for it as a donation to their society. The funniest thing is watching the locals... they will all look at you and shake their heads no, or even try to take the item out of your hand in order to make you get rid of it!
Then they are doing things wrong, I give Krsna literature free to New Age stores. Hare Krsna is free, it takes no money only interest and surrender.
At least you said or thought "Hare Krsna", so now you are purified.
Is it something to be afraid of and what are you so afraid of?
I heard someone say "What are you so afraid of" as a Challenge to me.
It was valuable.
Personally, I don't give a damn about the list of "Saints", or Hare Krishna... just not my cup of tea. I don't go galavanting around about it though.
Then you don't care much about the Great Work. We are supposed to care about all Saints and Devils and to also read books that are recommended in Magick in Theory and Practice so that we do not become dilettantes that shun others. Magick is about a Revealing and not an opposition, that's why Hitler messed up because he was stupid.
There is supposed to be a sense of community in Magick and not an "every man for himself attitude". If I am so wrong in knowing this why have I dealt with this all of my life? I have known magicians who think they are so powerful but they still live in their apartments and they are aging and would not know Eternity if it even knocked them on the head.
They know blood but not Eternity. Quite boring really.
Quote: ›
I was not talking about Christianity and their view of the antichrist in Revelation, I was talking how the antichrist of vedic understanding Kali is already reigning in this Age and that is a better understand than to suppose that the antichrist might come via Christian understanding which is inaccurate. Many other antichrists have also come over and over again and that is the way it has been, I'm sure there are already more.
What I don't understand is what place Christ, or Krishna, or any other of these dead gods have any place on this forum.
Why whould they not have place on this forum, Samadhi involves Christ or Krishna, Samadhi is about focusing on Him for spiritual understanding and not just some Effulgence.
They are not Dead Gods, and you obviously don't know what the concept of Dead Gods are, how would you know and how would I know?
Can you determine if Gods are dead or not? Or if God is dead.
Others have tried to do the same and they died and accomplished hardly anything unlike the Gods that you presume are dead.
Quote: ›
Christianity is not a cult, since when does "Love your enemies, and Love others as yourself." denote a cult.
A cult reacts to things they don't understand and tries to promote their own lies for the sake of manipulating others.
Are you f$#%ing serious? Christianity is not a cult? I won't even debate this one...
That's your judgment and not mine. You won't even touch Christianity I suppose. What's the bother? Love is not a cult, stupidity is.
Quote: ›
When I perceive the world I don't perceive myself, I see others who are lost and caught up in their false sense of reality. That is not my projection.
Wrong. That IS your projection. This is what some of the others here have been telling you for the past week. Who are you to judge anyone at all? And who are you to do this and still call yourself a Thelemite?
That is not my projection, you reacted to me so that is your projection.
People are mostly in the modes of Passion and Ignorance these days and that is an absolute fact.
I'm not judging anyone, but if someone says it's all right to kill will I will react to that , that is why I got mad in the first place.
This gives Magicians/Rishis, a bad reputation. That is not kosher!
Quote: ›
Awareness from within involves knowing the Paratmatma in the Heart. In other words study Liber Samekh and then it is much more clear.
I won't... this should be better left for someone else to criticize.
Are you telling me that you have never even looked at Liber Samekh!?
That is the most revealing liber next to Liber Al Vel Legis, in fact they go together.
Quote: ›
If I am wrong then why does this work for me?
It may work for you if you live in a world where you are not challenged on a daily basis, a world where your beliefs and your goals are not met with constant ordeals. You've made many claims in your short stay here. You made the claim of a very lofty Grade. You've made the claim that almost everyone here has a distorted view of their own versions of reality, and others. You've made the claim that you "don't percieve the world myself, I see others who are caught up in their own false sense of reality", and so on. You've been challenged over these and other accusations that you have made constantly since you arrived. Yet, you continually state that it is not your projection.
Well again, I have to contend, whether I be proven right or wrong, that it is definitely your projection. One thing that must be understood is that there is no "group consciousness" or "group anything" here on Lashtal. It is an online community and these forums are used in order for people to share ideas. Members consist of various people from all over the world. There are some here who practice magick, some who only study it. Everyone here is in their own individual stage of evolution. For you to say that everyone's thinking and etc. is messed up just because you don't agree is obiously a bold move, and could be a complete self projection.
So do you determine what goes on here on Lashtal?
That does go against Thelemic understanding. Where does the concept of freedom or democracy come in here?
If you were a guru or highly enlightened soul I would begin to trust what you say. I'm not bothered at all by what you are saying, you are really just coming off to me as a bully. You were nice to me in my intro though, I guess you have some kind of schizotypal symptoms going on.
Have a sense of humor dammit! You take religion way too seriously and you are reacting to things you don't understand.
No one into Magick should ever be that way, all it does is make one into a typical jerk that cares about themself only and they die alone.
There is a sense of community in Magick, and there always has been and there always will be otherwise there would be no need for any discussion like this on the internet.
Quote: ›
So I should say nothing because I don't agree with everyone else here?
You should say what you Will. However, keep in mind that you aren't speaking to one person when the language used is collective.
That's exactly what I did! And now you feel the need to chastise everything I say because I bring up religion. So should I be talking like a Satanist or something? Is'nt that old? What progression is there in cynicism. Why did Aleister Crowley recommend to read Holy Books and not just Thelemic Books, can you tell me the reason for that?
So now I'm poisoned for being intoxicated with Love of God are'nt I?
That's exactly what Magick is!
Quote: ›
I am simply on another level which is one of transcendence and not just arriving there, Magick is about arriving, the transcendence comes later when one is free from words or any other material chains.
How about this? Very simply, no one cares what level you are on. As stated above, there are thousands of member on Lashtal. They range from "nobodys" like myself, to some very prominent people. What always has interested me most is watching people similar to myself share ideas and interact, while the "more prominent" people remain virtually silent here. As it should be. Don't asusme that there isn't work going on behind the scenes, and don't assume that everything you see is everything you are going to get. And please don't try and perform the awful idea of trying to take the varying evolutionary states of each individual here into your own hands by writing as though we are all a collective. If you truly are on the level you claim to be, then you should know all of this. No one comes out from behind the curtains without being introduced, begins to tell everyone how wrong and narrow they are, and expects a hearty welcome, or any kind of acceptance. This is common courtesy here, and if you do have the connection to the love you say you do, perhaps you will see this. You don't walk into a party and begin trying to slap people in the face for no good reason other than you feel they aren't dresed for the occasion. It's simple ethics.
Why are you in this group then if you don't care about what level I'm on.
There is a discussion about whether Aleister Crowley is an Ipssisimus, so that is a lie! I'm sure if the Great Beast Himself came on here to discuss this with you you would care. Not that I am saying that that is who I am.
Quote: ›
If one is truly into Thelema they will learn the value of Devotion.
Each Star will learn the value of Devotion in Its proper Orbit. Again, who are you to decide which of us knows and doesn't know the value of Devotion? Just because we don't run around chanting Hare Krishna all day?
Chanting Hare Krsna is the best, nothing ever is and that is a fact and I dare you to disprove it! Give it a try, see how worthless it is. See how it does nothing for no one. See how no lives are protected when Hare Krsna is chanted. Once again you are insulting a Thelemic Saint, who is none other than God Himself!
Quote: ›
I tried to create Thelema in my life in my own way but it was all Destroyed as it was meant to be and nothing is more Merciful than that.
Good for you.
Yes, very very very very very Voice of God wonderful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Om Namah Shivaya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote: ›
Yes, deem me a preacher, that is such naivety. Labels. Calling other names, so that is magick these days I suppose.
Far from it. You initiated the idea, by "preaching to the choir." Might as well become ordained, along with your list of Saints.
My list of Saints, funny how you call it My list of Saints. You know this is a very important part of a Thelemic Ritual which is to acknowledge the Saints. Even Friedrich Nietsche is a Saint!
Quote: ›
Don't expect me to fit whatever pigeon-holing you do with others that should fit the paradigm of what you arrive at via your own ego-centered understanding of Thelema.
It's not pigeon-holding. It's common sense and simple ethics as said above. As for the "Ego-centered" remark... if this post were ego-centered, it would've went a completely different direction. That's all there is to it.
It is ego-centred, you just don't realize that because you are not aware of it.
Quote: ›
False Ego is dead.
R.I.P.
Good for you. Prove it. Show it.
I already did as I always have done. It's nothing new to me at all. I'm just here to help people and that is all.
93 93/93,
93/108 ad infinitum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Az |
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Azidonis |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 21, 2007 - 04:16 AM
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Posts: 383
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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93,
Was the above supposed to be a post?
If is was, did it concern the topic, which is "Attaining Dhyana and Samadhi"?
Will the Emperor EVER remove his clothes?!?!?
Find out next time, on Lashtal! Same usual time, same url.
93 93/93
P.S. I will no longer be responding to the off-topic mess which has ensued. |
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Uni_Verse |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 27, 2007 - 04:27 PM
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Posts: 332
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An interesting tid bit from The Stone Edition of The Chumash (essentially the Torah):
Accompanying note to Exodus verse 15 (The Song by the Sea):
"In the Torah's definition a 'song' is a profound and unusual spiritual phenomenon... the condition in which all the apparantly unrealated and contradictory phenomena do indeed meld into a coherent, merciful, comprehensible whole."
"...because they believed... they could sing"
"Only when Creation became one harmoniios whole in their minds and hearts could the people translate it into a human song" |
_________________
You are missing the point
There is only one verse, sung in infinite ways.
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Wizardiaoan |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 07, 2008 - 05:27 AM
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Joined: Aug 28, 2007
Posts: 54
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Hi All,
444
I posted a spiritual experience earlier in this thread some months ago that caused a slight stir (as it included sacramental psychedelic usage, its method of free jamming music was untraditional, and its claim was a little much). Upon reading more Ramana Maharshi, I am pretty confident that it was Nirvikalpa Samadhi, but that I did not sustain it, its real magick was gone within a week. I read that Ramana says this may occur, and am thinking that is what happened. Anyway, I wish to take back that it was ultimate enlightenment, it was a taste of Void Consciousness for ~10sec., its discontinuity betrays it I see now. I can write clearly about it now, and follows is the new understanding I have developed coinciding with my second great spiritual experience of my Anahata chakra opening. This is excerpted from a letter I wrote David Allen Hulse (I am frank in revealing this, as the personal plays a certain important part in the relaying):
My heart chakra has opened this past month, as a definite spiritual unfolding, the second of my life. Won't get into details, but to say that it was unexpected, I wasn't doing any specific Anahata work, its pronouncement is partly why I can see the Truth of it. To share a little more, over some days I suddenly began realizing my heart chakra shining with such stunning beauty, but when I would try to intuit the color/geometric scheme, it would diminish. It is still shining, but I cannot describe it really, other than having the primary colors shimmering in the astral, with sky blue, with the first 12 Tarot Keys around it, etc., with the blue of Jupiter as its bindu, around which are 11 little white petals. Not important, its opening is. I think yours has opened in the past is why I wish to be brief, because words distract me from the experience (I am working hard to stabilize its new flowering through infinite devotion).
I have been making visual studies of the chakra scheme, and some days ago I became inspired to paint another Sri, just as I painted you, for me, before my birthday of 4/7, while I am still 33 = LiLa, LaLiTa, etc., to magickally unite with that symbolism deeply, and give my Self a present. I actually considered it as a pretty powerful visual inside the Anahata chakra, and I am knowing the upcoming visual work will facilitate my balancing and stabilization of my Anahata, for I feel as a young sprout--there is deep, continuous true balance there, but it is vulnerable.
May I also say that my views towards drugs has changed, I have grown too subtle for them. They just obsess no matter how small the dose now. I am glad to be out of their influence. I do not think them of any real use even in workings that require, or rather are able to equilibrate, tons of energy, like music jams or intercourse. At age 20 I used 2 tabs of LSD to play keyboard with friends and attained Nirvikalpa Samadhi for ~10 seconds. That was fun, a pretty high magickal working, and gave me confidence in my genius; that is, my ability to reach a naturally high orgiastic balance. It was actually a young man's natural orgasm in "love under will", but I was not spiritual at the time too much, and the whole thing still has an egoic success quality to it that is discontinuous--within days to a week I sunk back into a normal state (with only some certain gnosis of the possibility of attaining void consciousness, which both gave me balance and imbalance).
This heart opening is so much deeper, it is the continuous "love under will" of Anahata, the fruit of me trying to balance myself from that initial spiritual opening at age 20 for 13 years haha. There is even some fear that I may diminish it too far and lose it by even speaking of it. It is fearlessness itself, absolute certainty, the epitome of balance, ever now. This may demarcate becoming the Atman, the True Self. I have no desire to much consider the higher chakras now, it is funny, the balance of Anahata is so important to maintain to me. It is the all-important thing to do.
Also I realize I took the perceived heart opening or enlightenment that I believed and could sense you had (you were my prime example)--I imagined you ever as basically an enlightened, deeply knowledgeable, man buddha, and I could see the shimmering colors of Creation, of the Tree of Life, and yes deeply the Anahata astral primary colors--actually I imagined you as the epitome of enlightenment, a perfect object of adoration--and then I willed through the Force of Truth and Virtue that infinite Beauty and Sacredness upon me, cutting out all falsity from my Soul, annihilating it all with infinite ferocity, meeting poison with greater poison. When all was crushed sufficiently to ashen skull dust I suppose it happened, and I am so infinitely grateful that is has! Aum. Ha. Spiritual Maturity finally!
But moreover I had to relate this stunning observation I just made today, I find it remarkable:
I always remembered you saying the esoteric planetary order may be the true one for the chakras. I always thought so too, though I entertained several models. It is hard to esoterically accept that the Golden Dawn Tarot order, with its assignment of the planets, is somehow the true vibrations of the chakras--this really means that this order was implicit in Hebrew, and that the chakra gnosis is to be looked at as some lost intact pristine gnosis from Egypt or something!
I had entertained the various models, but over the last 2 weeks I have realized and become certain that the Mercury-Moon-Venus-Jupiter-Mars-Sun-Saturn correpsondences are indeed the true esoteric correlations for the 7 chakras. Each chakra has these bindu vibrations as their essence.
What I wanted to relate was that today, upon considering my Anahata opening as an universal spiritual attainment to be undergone by all, and thinking to see if it could correspond to any of Crowley's A.A. Grades (and the Tree of Life Supremely!), I found they do absolutely! Here they are:
1. Sahasrara = Kether = Ipsissimus (2 Mercury = Orange)
2. Ajna = Chockmah = Magus (3 Moon = Purple)
3. Vishuddha = Binah = Magister Templi (4 Venus = Green)
4. Anahata = Chesed = Adeptus Exemptus (11 Jupiter = Blue)
5. Manipura = Geburah = Adeptus Major (17 Mars = Red)
6. Swadhisthana = Tiphareth = Adeptus Minor (20 Sun = Yellow)
7. Muladhara = Netzach (and perhaps the rest) = Philosophus = (22 Saturn = Indigo)
This is the ancient gnosis that was in full bloom in Egypt is my esoteric speculation, since it is the natural universal blooming of spiritual consciousness (The Pharaoh was Magus, the Uraeus serpent was Ajna activated). My initial Aha moment was realizing that it seemed true that I had attained Exempt Adept, from the color vibrations of the Beautific Vision of Jupiter, with my Heart opening--and then I found that Vishuddha as Venus went excellently with Binah as Goddess. When I saw Ajna as the Big Will (as opposed to the little Will of Jupiter), I realized I had completely underestimated this chakra. This came as a Vision of Neptune, a Mature God, arising from a wavy sea in my brain head or skull and in the astral in front of me, where the horizon line was important, with His Supreme Trident of Will, the outer two prongs of which are designed so that they gently seem to converge upon the center spear's point. The Trident of Will arising above the sea may be the big symbol of Ajna/Chokmah, imagined in the casing of the skull and the astral imagination at the same time. Finally, I have intentionally stayed away from Sahasrara (and Ajna and Vishuddha); I did see some colored Orange flowers on a Ganesha statue that vibrated beautifully, letting me know the correlations of Orange to Sahasrara, which is so largely white, was correct. Upon this, I realized that it is the seat of high transmission and communication in some sense, and immediately realized that over-spiritualized people left the balance of the heart chakra too soon via ego temptation, or etc., and that an over-activity in the Sahasrara is the cause for all those crazy alien transmissions (I see Dr. George King as a prime example of this).
One thing I noted is that when the solar gnosis of Tiphareth is only second from the bottom, you know you're in for a hell of a ride! Note also how 4, 5, 6 (the primary colors) are completely and directly correlated to each other, Tree of Life Sphere color and planet to Chakra color and planet. I realize most people will go for the normal attribution of Tiphareth to Anahata, and Yesod to Muladhara I suppose, but I think the above are the pristine correspondences.
This unites the 2 great cosmological diagrams, and models of spiritual consciousness's evolution, together perfectly. At least I think so... feel free to respond honestly, where you think I might be in err--in this matter or any other.
Thanks for listening, I am reaching greater clarity by writing, I have been doing a fair bit of it recently. Hope you enjoyed reading this.
Here is me waiting to hear you play the Sacred Vibrations in Your Sacred Presence in Infinite Space,
Here is me crying tears of joy,
P.S. Seeing your Heart magickal name I.A.M. (initials only given out of respect) = 186 has begun to cause me to rethink that Latin Simplex may be the truest inner heart Latin code in some magickal way, all by force of your truth! [I am of the usual mindset that Latin is a Greek-based Order]. (edited minorly)
323
Fraternally Yours,
4774
*Lashtal members apply to my heart opening here if you wish, I am going to duplicate the Tree of Life/Chakra correspondences and create a new thread, seeing as they are basically off topic, and this thread is very long. I'll call it Chakra/Tree of Life Correspondences, where various models may be brought up, and commented upon.
**Also, if the brief mention of substance use makes the moderators unhappy I will gladly edit my post upon notification. |
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Wizardiaoan
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in 1° 
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in 10° 
: Anno IVxviii 
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