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Baphomet111 |
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Post subject: Feet
 Posted: Mar 01, 2008 - 09:44 PM
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Joined: May 16, 2007
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During meditation, if sitting upright, my feet fall asleep. I've tried MANY different asana and talked to people about this problem. The only one that works is the corpse position, of course, but it's much harder for me to keep focus. Meditation pillows (ass pads) sort of helped, but I'm still having the same problem. I have muscular legs, been told this affects it, but I would like to remedy or at least work with the situation.
Any comments, hints, or ideas?
--Adam |
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IAO131 |
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Post subject: Re: Feet
Posted: Mar 01, 2008 - 09:48 PM
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Baphomet111 wrote: › During meditation, if sitting upright, my feet fall asleep. I've tried MANY different asana and talked to people about this problem. The only one that works is the corpse position, of course, but it's much harder for me to keep focus. Meditation pillows (ass pads) sort of helped, but I'm still having the same problem. I have muscular legs, been told this affects it, but I would like to remedy or at least work with the situation.
Any comments, hints, or ideas?
--Adam
Do your feet fall asleep when you are sitting in a normal chair? If 'no,' then you should be familiar with the 'God position,' of sitting upright in a chair with your hands on your legs... If your feet fall asleep when you are sitting normally all the time, it sounds like you have a circulatory problem.
Also, your limbs falling asleep is common especially when starting a position. There is something to persisting, but persisting with caution. You should not persist to the point that your weight is a tourniquet to your limbs, obviously... and joint pain should not be persisted in, especially in the knees (although general lower back aching is common to beginners starting to sit upright for prolonged periods). In half-lotus, your thigh might initially fall asleep after about 5 minutes, then 10, then it might just go away. Its ok to take a 5 second break to stretch your legs out straight and go back into position. It is better to do this than persist in discomfort and being distracted.
IAO131 |
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sethur666 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 03, 2008 - 01:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 25, 2007
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93
Have you tried a meditation stool?
93 93/93
Steve W |
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CosmicSpice |
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Posted: Mar 03, 2008 - 12:17 PM
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Joined: Dec 27, 2006
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Location: Saskatoon
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If your feet are falling asleep, as mine do in the lotus and half lotus postures, switch to a different asana. I changed to the god posture and the problem was solved.
Bill Heidrick's comment in the Electronic Edition of Book 4:
WEH footnote: It is important to distinguish between cramp and severe chronic muscle spasm which can tear ligaments. Muscle spasm tends to result from pinching or compressing nerves, and can lead to permanent injury. Also beware of constricted circulation, which produces numbness more than it does pain. Wear loose clothing and avoid pressing on hard objects. |
Last edited by CosmicSpice on Mar 03, 2008 - 10:37 PM; edited 1 time in total
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SunkenCide |
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Post subject: 93
Posted: Mar 03, 2008 - 07:49 PM
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Location: Pasadena, TX
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93/93
The Fact is I like it.
Love = law will/love |
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KEY IS JAMMED.
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lashtal |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 03, 2008 - 07:55 PM
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CosmicSpice wrote: › From Book 4:
WEH footnote: It is important to distinguish between cramp and severe chronic muscle spasm which can tear ligaments. Muscle spasm tends to result from pinching or compressing nerves, and can lead to permanent injury. Also beware of constricted circulation, which produces numbness more than it does pain. Wear loose clothing and avoid pressing on hard objects.
Wait a minute! I can't allow that one to pass without comment. What you are quoting is not from any "Book 4" that its author, Aleister Crowley, would recognise. Or, indeed, that anyone who has read the book would recognise. Your quotation is of a footnote to the electronic text file circulating widely online. It's by Bill Heidrick.
You probably knew this, but it's worth making clear... |
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Boris |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 03, 2008 - 08:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 08, 2007
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| I`ve always thought that was a part of what one had to endure? Should one worry if feet turns blue? |
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IAO131 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 03, 2008 - 09:11 PM
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Boris wrote: › I`ve always thought that was a part of what one had to endure? Should one worry if feet turns blue?
ROFL! You shouldn't worry, you should allow circulation to return.
Use common sense people. If you are having sharp pains there is something wrong; if you are losing circulation to the point of your limbs turning a different color, something is wrong. Aches aren't as problematic and they are almost guaranteed to occur, especially to beginners who havent trained their upright-sitting muscles... but even then, if an ache gets too severe, just take a break. Its better to do 5 bouts of 10 minutes than one painful one of 50 minutes. Besides, if you are feeling pains and losing circulation this much your concentration is most likely going to be aversely effected. Your body needs to be in harmony with your mind, not avoided and malnourished.
IAO131 |
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CosmicSpice |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 03, 2008 - 10:44 PM
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Joined: Dec 27, 2006
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Location: Saskatoon
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lashtal wrote: › CosmicSpice wrote: › From Book 4:
WEH footnote: It is important to distinguish between cramp and severe chronic muscle spasm which can tear ligaments. Muscle spasm tends to result from pinching or compressing nerves, and can lead to permanent injury. Also beware of constricted circulation, which produces numbness more than it does pain. Wear loose clothing and avoid pressing on hard objects.
Wait a minute! I can't allow that one to pass without comment. What you are quoting is not from any "Book 4" that its author, Aleister Crowley, would recognise. Or, indeed, that anyone who has read the book would recognise. Your quotation is of a footnote to the electronic text file circulating widely online. It's by Bill Heidrick.
You probably knew this, but it's worth making clear...
Ah yes, how bad of me! I did mean to put that in there, but in a rush to work this morning was shamefully hasty. Thanks for pointing this sloppy error out and clarifying things. |
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lashtal |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 03, 2008 - 11:05 PM
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| Pleasure. The quote was relevant and interesting, just by another source than the one some might have assumed. |
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Boris |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 05, 2008 - 07:07 PM
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| Crowley explaines you`ll have to endure pain so strong you can`t imagine it and feet going so stiff it takes 10 min to straighten it out. If I sit 40 min in the dragon position pain arrives around 30 minutes and gets quite intense around 40 but still quite far from not being undurable, my feet gets a blueish color and takes a couple of minutes to straighten out, but in a couple of more minutes are perfectly fine. I don`t get spasms. Is it really that bad? I don`t see why you`d have to laugh. I love the position so don`t want to give it up so I hope you forgive me that I want to take this seriously with you, but ofcourse if it ca cause permanent injury I`ll have to stop. And whats your qualifications for stating what you do? |
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IAO131 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 05, 2008 - 08:14 PM
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Boris wrote: › Crowley explaines you`ll have to endure pain so strong you can`t imagine it and feet going so stiff it takes 10 min to straighten it out. If I sit 40 min in the dragon position pain arrives around 30 minutes and gets quite intense around 40 but still quite far from not being undurable, my feet gets a blueish color and takes a couple of minutes to straighten out, but in a couple of more minutes are perfectly fine. I don`t get spasms. Is it really that bad? I don`t see why you`d have to laugh. I love the position so don`t want to give it up so I hope you forgive me that I want to take this seriously with you, but ofcourse if it ca cause permanent injury I`ll have to stop. And whats your qualifications for stating what you do?
I assume you are referring to me... Your feet being bluish means there is a lack of circulation. My authority on this is basic biology and medical knowledge. Feel free to check your own sources on this. This isn't 'bad,' its just a sign from your body saying 'there is not enough blood & oxygen getting here for optimal functioning.' It is possible to ignore it, it is possible to endure, but like I said above: enduring excruciating pain is more liekly to interrupt your concentration than keep it steady.
I laugh because I want to... I would say there is no reason to 'give up' your form. I would just persist very slowly. If you cannot get past 40 minutes without excruciating pain, its possible you are putting too much weight on something, etc. I personally find the God position the most natural, especially to Westerners who sit in chairs most of their lives. I like half-lotus after this one because youre not putting your whole body's weight on your thighs and ankles and feet like Dragon... and 1000s of Yogis have used it successfully. Just a few thoughts.
IAO131 |
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Boris |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 05, 2008 - 10:33 PM
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IAO131 wrote: ›
I assume you are referring to me... Your feet being bluish means there is a lack of circulation. My authority on this is basic biology and medical knowledge. Feel free to check your own sources on this. This isn't 'bad,' its just a sign from your body saying 'there is not enough blood & oxygen getting here for optimal functioning.' It is possible to ignore it, it is possible to endure, but like I said above: enduring excruciating pain is more liekly to interrupt your concentration than keep it steady.
Much apreciated reply, thank you.
I was objecting to you laghter cause I didn`t see why I was weing silly. Medical knowledge isn`t common knowledge. But sure 93 and thanks again |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2008 - 12:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 02, 2006
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Location: New York
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Quote: › What you are quoting is not from any "Book 4"
It doesn't take an XI° to realize that this entire thread is nothing more than blasphemous commentary on the mysteries of 'Leah Sublime'.
I won't even get in to sethur666's comment...is nothing sacred ?!
Cheers,
John |
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empiricus |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2008 - 01:05 AM
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Joined: Feb 18, 2006
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93,
'Blasphemous'?! Excuse me.....what exactly does this mean in this context. There is no 'blasphemy' where I am!! Criticise, take the piss, do what thou wilt, but 'Blasphemy'?!
All the best.....
93 93/93 |
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Baphomet111 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2008 - 07:46 AM
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Joined: May 16, 2007
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thanks for the replies....most anyway!
93 |
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anpi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 08, 2008 - 09:14 PM
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Joined: May 26, 2007
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Location: Helsinki, Finland
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My feet often fall asleep if I sit in a Lotus posture for a long time, such as 30 minutes or more. I don't notice it at all while sitting except if I touch the feet with my hands. When I'm finished, I start to notice in few seconds the tingling and this certain somewhat annoying numb feeling in the feet, no pain though. It passes on after a short while and I'm not overly worried about that. However, I wonder if this type of numbness and tingling has more to do with the nerves or the circulation..
As an aside, reading a book called "Phantoms in the Brain" from a famous neuroscientist Ramachandran made we wonder if this leg numbing issue could somehow assist in getting to the mystic states of consciousness. Ramachandran describes a patient who had her leg amputated. Later on she noted that she had started to feel orgasms in the place where her foot was! Ramachandran said this may be because the brain has a map of the body called Penfield map and in this map has the genital areas next to the foot areas, and the neurons in the genital areas had started to invade the now inactive leg areas. It's in principle possible that something like this in a milder form takes place if you sit with your legs numb for a long enough time, though I must remind that this is just some light-hearted speculation. |
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enjoy93 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 17, 2008 - 08:43 AM
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It is FAQ, as I see. It was a topic called "Dragon asana" here.
5 cents on everything: "feet fall asleep" is normal, and leg numbing too. I don't know anyone who really did asana (i.e. got effect on his mind) without any pain. Read Book 4 Part I and 8 Lectures again - the whole mode of practice is described thoroughly. Maybe it's better to do this without any comments (including mine)  I think Crowley knew much better what to write in his books.
I may add that concentration on pain is not the point of practice, and just to sit with or without pain for many minutes is not the point too. The point is concentration on restricting movements of body, that extends your awareness about it, and if you aware - you can control. Sit and concentrate, and more concentrate. If you feel you can't concentrate - stop immediately and relax, this is not a practice at all to sit and feel pain and sustain it - you miss the point completely. (Just to sit and feel good is not the point too.)
IMO "Liber E" mode is the most effective and quick, but, if one doesn't like it, different mode of practice can be used too - beginning with breath concentration like in Buddhist yoga, for example, but in my experience it requires a bit more skill and time. Anyway, if you like your practice, it will be easy to persist and to continue it. |
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