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zainOffline
Post subject: Allen Greenfields comments on Caliphate OTO rituals  PostPosted: May 11, 2007 - 09:35 AM



Joined: Apr 04, 2007
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I just read an article by Allen Greenfield ( "Blood Magick"). In it he states that the leadership of the Caliphate OTO are so scared of litigation/legal action that they have removed the 'special' ingredient from their Cakes of Light. They have also changed their degree work so that there is no chance of "sexual infection". (AKA: no sexual contact).

Now if this is the case has the Caliphate OTO corrupted the work? Does the leadership see sexuality has a thing of fear and not a an act of celebration?
 
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MichaelStaleyOffline
Post subject: Allen Greenfields comments on Caliphate OTO rituals  PostPosted: May 11, 2007 - 10:16 AM



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zain wrote: › I just read an article by Allen Greenfield ( "Blood Magick"). In it he states that the leadership of the Caliphate OTO are so scared of litigation/legal action that they have removed the 'special' ingredient from their Cakes of Light. They have also changed their degree work so that there is no chance of "sexual infection". (AKA: no sexual contact).

Now if this is the case has the Caliphate OTO corrupted the work? Does the leadership see sexuality has a thing of fear and not a an act of celebration?

I don't personally see that the two things follow. It is surely sensible to take precautions of one sort or another; nobody wants to acquire or pass on an infection or worse. This is surely nothing to do with seeing sexuality per se as something to be feared.

I also don't see why there should be any problems over whether or not the Cakes of Light contain menstrual blood. After all, they are not for sale to the public, or marketted as food, are they? Their use is sacramental and in the course of a ceremony.

Whilst being no friend of the Caliphate O.T.O. leadership, these seem to me rather insubstantial grounds to suppose that they have or are corrupting the work.

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lashtalOffline
Post subject: Allen Greenfields comments on Caliphate OTO rituals  PostPosted: May 11, 2007 - 03:15 PM
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zain wrote: › Now if this is the case has the Caliphate OTO corrupted the work? Does the leadership see sexuality has a thing of fear and not a an act of celebration?

Assuming that your enquiry is genuine and that you're not just "making a point", have you considered, I don't know, asking them, perhaps?
 
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runelogixOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: May 11, 2007 - 03:52 PM



Joined: Jan 28, 2006
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Hmm, I may get flak for saying this, but from a different source I've heard rumors of a fake cOTO IX degree initiation ritual being used. I don't have any direct evidence for this and don't necessarily believe it myself.

(For the record: I'm not writing this to slander anyone just adding to the discussion.)
 
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Aum418Offline
Post subject: Allen Greenfields comments on Caliphate OTO rituals  PostPosted: May 11, 2007 - 05:54 PM



Joined: Oct 01, 2006
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zain wrote: › I just read an article by Allen Greenfield ( "Blood Magick"). In it he states that the leadership of the Caliphate OTO are so scared of litigation/legal action that they have removed the 'special' ingredient from their Cakes of Light.

Does the cOTO manufacture Cakes of Light? I am almost sure that these are made on an individual basis and therefore obviously this is a choice of individual discretion (or of the particular lodge).

Quote: › They have also changed their degree work so that there is no chance of "sexual infection". (AKA: no sexual contact).

its absolutely absurd to think that 9th and 11th degrees dont require sexual contact - thats like playing soccer without a field and a soccer ball but just kind of looking over the theoretical rules of play...

Quote: › Now if this is the case has the Caliphate OTO corrupted the work? Does the leadership see sexuality has a thing of fear and not a an act of celebration?

Corrupted 'the work'? What are you talking about? All they are 'corrupting', if anything, is their own work. How does this affect you whatsoever? You are free to ejaculate into your cakes of light any time you will.

MichaelStaley wrote: ›
Whilst being no friend of the Caliphate O.T.O. leadership, these seem to me rather insubstantial grounds to suppose that they have or are corrupting the work.

There seems to be insubstantial evidence any of this is true.

runelogix wrote: › Hmm, I may get flak for saying this, but from a different source I've heard rumors of a fake cOTO IX degree initiation ritual being used. I don't have any direct evidence for this and don't necessarily believe it myself.

(For the record: I'm not writing this to slander anyone just adding to the discussion.)


Why would you get flak for claiming something you have absolutely no proof of? It just makes you look silly.

This entire thread is based aroud fruitless speculation and hearsay.

65 & 210,
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runelogixOffline
Post subject: Allen Greenfields comments on Caliphate OTO rituals  PostPosted: May 11, 2007 - 06:14 PM



Joined: Jan 28, 2006
Posts: 168
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Aum418 wrote: › Why would you get flak for claiming something you have absolutely no proof of?


I don't have a problem with any of the OTO's, each to their own, but due to the nature of Thelemic politics, it could be construed as being written with hostile intent which isn't the case.

Quote: › It just makes you look silly.


For the record, I'm perfectly okay with that!
Quote: ›
This entire thread is based aroud fruitless speculation and hearsay.


As a high ranking OTO initiate, Allen Greenfield's isn't considered fruitless speculation. zain raises a valid and interesting question concerning the OTO praxis. I find this question worth getting to the bottom of for the sake of all the little Stars out there interested in the answer.
 
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