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Since all men from their birth employ sense prior to intellect, and are necessarily first conversant with sensible things: Some, proceeding no farther, pass through life considering these as first and last; and apprehending what is painful to be evil, what is pleasant to be good, they deem it sufficient to shun the one and pursue the other. Some pretending to greater reason than the rest, esteem this wisdom; like earth-bound birds, though they have wings are unable to fly. The secret souls of others would recall them from pleasure to worthier pursuits; but they cannot soar: they choose the lower way and strive in vain. Thirdly, there are those divine men whose eyes pierce through clouds and darkness to supernal vision, where they abide as in their own lawful country
-- Plotinus
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Aug 27, 2008 - 03:22 AM
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Joined: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 535
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: Offline
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Thanks, Ian, for sparing me having to write the very same things.  Very well put, indeed. |
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bazelek |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 27, 2008 - 06:00 AM
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Joined: Mar 22, 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Somerset, UK
Status: Offline
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ianrons wrote: › In this regard, Crowley is well ahead of his time, suggesting the diarization of results even when doing practices like dharana. It's not some quackery we need to be ashamed of -- it's science at its most practical and, therefore, paradoxical.
I thought this was the method implied, but KG also places great importance on the strict diarization of results, at least, he does if you want to be taken seriously. In fact, judging from ACs diaries, KG is more demanding of his students than AC was of himself, which is curious and quite contrary to the popular understanding...
bazelek |
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 27, 2008 - 02:53 PM
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Joined: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 535
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: Offline
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bazelek wrote: › ianrons wrote: › In this regard, Crowley is well ahead of his time, suggesting the diarization of results even when doing practices like dharana. It's not some quackery we need to be ashamed of -- it's science at its most practical and, therefore, paradoxical.
I thought this was the method implied, but KG also places great importance on the strict diarization of results, at least, he does if you want to be taken seriously. In fact, judging from ACs diaries, KG is more demanding of his students than AC was of himself, which is curious and quite contrary to the popular understanding...
bazelek
Just out of curiosity, what do your personal impressions of Crowley's diaries have to do with an analysis of the A.'.A.'. system of Attainment? Are Grant's personal diaries available to the same extent as Crowley's, for similar review? For that matter, is the Typhonian grade work available to the same extent as is the A.'.A.'. system of Attainment, for purposes of comparison? Perhaps you are able and willing to raise the level of popular understanding in this regard? Just out of curiosity, of course. |
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bazelek |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 27, 2008 - 04:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 22, 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Somerset, UK
Status: Offline
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Camlion wrote: › Just out of curiosity, what do your personal impressions of Crowley's diaries have to do with an analysis of the A.'.A.'. system of Attainment? Are Grant's personal diaries available to the same extent as Crowley's, for similar review? For that matter, is the Typhonian grade work available to the same extent as is the A.'.A.'. system of Attainment, for purposes of comparison? Perhaps you are able and willing to raise the level of popular understanding in this regard? Just out of curiosity, of course.
Hi Camlion,
I can't offer any insights into these things I'm afraid because it is outside of my area of interest. Instead I can say that in 22 years correspondence with Kenneth he refers occasionally to my 'diary' or 'record', as if he expects me to have one, which I do not. Other friends who have been closer to his work have been expected to provide a detailed (ie. daily) account of their activities. Even Crowley did not keep a regular daily account, if memory serves, despite being an excellent diary keeper.
I am not sure if these things are generally known, but given this is a thread discussing KGs methodology (and here in comparison to ACs) I didn't think it irrelevant, but perhaps it is.
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 27, 2008 - 05:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 535
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: Offline
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bazelek wrote: ›
Hi Camlion,
I can't offer any insights into these things I'm afraid because it is outside of my area of interest. Instead I can say that in 22 years correspondence with Kenneth he refers occasionally to my 'diary' or 'record', as if he expects me to have one, which I do not. Other friends who have been closer to his work have been expected to provide a detailed (ie. daily) account of their activities. Even Crowley did not keep a regular daily account, if memory serves, despite being an excellent diary keeper.
I am not sure if these things are generally known, but given this is a thread discussing KGs methodology (and here in comparison to ACs) I didn't think it irrelevant, but perhaps it is.
bazelek
Thank you. By your account, it certainly seems that Grant heeded and even exceeded the instructions given him by Crowley, as per Liber E http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib9.html |
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 27, 2008 - 06:21 PM
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Joined: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 535
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: Offline
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Camlion wrote: › bazelek wrote: ›
Hi Camlion,
I can't offer any insights into these things I'm afraid because it is outside of my area of interest. Instead I can say that in 22 years correspondence with Kenneth he refers occasionally to my 'diary' or 'record', as if he expects me to have one, which I do not. Other friends who have been closer to his work have been expected to provide a detailed (ie. daily) account of their activities. Even Crowley did not keep a regular daily account, if memory serves, despite being an excellent diary keeper.
I am not sure if these things are generally known, but given this is a thread discussing KGs methodology (and here in comparison to ACs) I didn't think it irrelevant, but perhaps it is.
bazelek
Thank you. By your account, it certainly seems that Grant heeded and even exceeded the instructions given him by Crowley, as per Liber E http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib9.html
Oh yes, I almost forgot... With our now having the benefit of your own anecdotal account, if we could just substantiate that with copies of Grant's own diaries, those of a significant number of his students and an account of the Typhonian grade work, all of which we have from Crowley and his system, we might continue the comparison and arrive at a conclusion as to the adherence to scientific method by each of them. |
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bazelek |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 27, 2008 - 09:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 22, 2004
Posts: 245
Location: Somerset, UK
Status: Offline
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Camlion wrote: › Oh yes, I almost forgot... With our now having the benefit of your own anecdotal account, if we could just substantiate that with copies of Grant's own diaries, those of a significant number of his students and an account of the Typhonian grade work, all of which we have from Crowley and his system, we might continue the comparison and arrive at a conclusion as to the adherence to scientific method by each of them.
Well, you are asking the wrong man for that Camlion!
All I can say is that when I sold Crowley's unpublished 1915-1916 manuscript diary Rex de Arte regia at Sothebys in 1996 it was available for comparison by others working closely with Grant at that time. Their comments to me formed the basis of my last post. I guess if a broader assessment is ever made possible, as you suggest, it would be quite fascinating...
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 01:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 684
Location: U.K.
Status: Offline
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It would be especially fascinating to see whether anyone recorded having seen Lam's crown during all of their astral workings. Otherwise most number of words wins?  |
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