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scrivener11 |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Apr 07, 2008 - 07:34 AM
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Joined: Mar 31, 2008
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Location: south west England
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Your post brings to mind an interesting passage from Kenneth Grant's Outside the Circles of Time:
Kenneth Grant wrote: › Crowley remarked, in The Book of Thoth, that constant meditation on the symbolic contraries embodied in the imagery of the Atus will eventually engender a new faculty of consciousness that enables the individual mind to apprehend that which is beyond human logic and understanding. But it is necessary constantly to penetrate these spaces, first mentally and then etherially, before one can grasp the extremely tenuous and evanescent wraiths of the realities they contain. These considerations apply even more emphatically to the O.T.O.-Horus-Maat-Ipsos network, wherein the candidates for initiation enter totally new spaces. Not spaces which have, until that time, been sealed off or closed like long disused galleries thick with the dust of aeons, but spaces that do not exist before the Will formulates a resolve to enter them and to align the mind and the heart with the 93 Current.
This dovetails well with the quote you itemized from the Goetia, though I would prefer to use the term "imagination" rather than "mind" - but perhaps this is merely to nibble at a quibble, so to speak.
Best wishes,
Michael.[/quote]
Yes it does relate quite well indeed. To nibble a bit more at the quibble though, I would suggest that the spirits are contained within the mind, that we are able to gain access to by the applied use of the imagination. |
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MichaelStaley |
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Posted: Apr 07, 2008 - 09:02 AM
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OKontrair wrote: › Did you notice a page reference that might help me trace the quotation?
The passage occurs on page 155 of the Muller edition.
Michael. |
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"It's all in the egg".
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OKontrair |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 07, 2008 - 10:14 AM
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Thank you Michael for looking that up and responding so quickly.
What I really wanted to know was which bit of Crowley Grant was quoting. What I should have said was 'Did Mr.Grant give a reference as to which bit of the Book of Thoth the remark could be found in?'
OK |
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MichaelStaley |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 07, 2008 - 02:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 21, 2004
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Though there is no page reference in Circles, I think I do know where it occurs, yes. I'll look for it when I get home this evening and let you know.
Best,
Michael. |
_________________
"It's all in the egg".
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przm28 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 08, 2008 - 11:25 PM
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article i came across over at technooccult.
http://www.key64.net/article/1337-the-t ... ronomicon/
"Grant may be paranoid and delusional, but one thing he is not is stupid. We are talking about a highly intelligent, deductive mind that writes texts that parallel Immanuel Kant in complexity. Why then would he so blatantly reference the fictional works of H.P. Lovecraft? Could a shady connection exist between Grant's mentor Aleister Crowley and Lovecraft himself?" |
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przm28 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 09, 2008 - 07:21 AM
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"Magic of Atlantis, Sauthenerom: The Real Source of the Necronomicon" by Frank G. Ripel
was researching came across this.....on the web came up this link http://www.necfiles.org/ripel2.htm, which goes on to shed light on "frank G. Ripel" tome. from what I understand goes against(reading through the article)kenneth grant ect ect. I wondering if 93 creactor'z worked with these words of ripel ? |
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przm28 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 09, 2008 - 07:27 AM
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| "In relation to the existing relation between Lovecraft's and Crowley's cults, we must point out an erroneous claim of Kenneth Grant (see The Magickal Revival). He states that Lovecraft did not know the works of Crowley; actually, Lovecraft's letters show exactly the opposite (well, that I know of, HPL's only mention of Crowley is as "overpublicized", showing that he had read about his scandals in the newspapers like everybody else; or is Ripel right and did HPL mention his books somewhere?)5. Besides, Lovecraft presents a comparative chart between both cults which, nonetheless, contains notorious comparative mistakes." http://www.necfiles.org/ripel2.htm,..... kinda funny been spending some moments looking into this glass about these in-stances. little engaging synchronicity has been occuring with crowley/lovecraft relatonship. quite funny. |
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the_spurious_simon_iff |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 09, 2008 - 10:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 30, 2008
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>>He states that Lovecraft did not know the works of Crowley; actually, Lovecraft's letters show exactly the opposite<<
They certainly don't. Somewhere in the Collected Letters or possibly in Supernatural Horror in Literature he makes one vague allusion to a 'cult leader' in England, which some have assumed (quite reasonably perhaps) is AC. Although he doesn't produce his name anywhere...
Either way, I think it would be correct to say he wasn't familiar with the works of AC. Even if they were available to him, (highly possible) they would have come under his 'pseudo-scientific occultism' label, so wouldn't have provided much interest, since it was this prior believe in the hidden side of things advocated by occultism that took the fear out fiction - in his opinion.
I can't immediately think of any HPL characters which resonate with AC either; probably far too much sex involved for HPL, who was rather squeamish towards this activity... |
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MichaelStaley |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 09, 2008 - 11:27 AM
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Joined: Apr 21, 2004
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przm28 quotes someone's reference to Grant's remarks that Lovecraft did not know of Crowley:
przm28 wrote: › "In relation to the existing relation between Lovecraft's and Crowley's cults, we must point out an erroneous claim of Kenneth Grant (see The Magickal Revival). He states that Lovecraft did not know the works of Crowley; actually, Lovecraft's letters show exactly the opposite . . ."
There is such a remark in The Magical Revival (page 114):
Kenneth Grant wrote: › Lovecraft was unaquainted both with the name and the work of Crowley, yet some of his fantasies reflect, however distortedly, the salient themes of Crolwey's Cult.
There is a similar remark in Aleister Crowley and the Hidden God, page 35. However, Grant subsequently corrected himself in the following passage from Outside the Circles of Time, page 168 (1980 edition):
Kenneth Grant wrote: › Here I should like to correct an error that crept into my book Aleister Crowley & the Hidden God. I there wrote that nowhere in Lovecraft's published or unpublished writings, including his numerous letters, did he give any sign either of having read or having heard of Aleister Crowley. At the time of writing the Hidden God, two volumes only of Lovecraft's Selected Letters had been published. In volume V., p. 120 there does occur a passing reference to Aleister Crowley . . . I had not at the time noticed the fact that Crowley is mentioned in a novel entitled The Dark Chember, by Leonard Cline, upon which Lovecraft comments in his article On the Supernatural in Literature.
I'm grateful for this being pointed out at this particular time, being about to start work on preparing The Magical Revival for republication by Starfire Publishing Ltd. |
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"It's all in the egg".
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the_spurious_simon_iff |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 09, 2008 - 02:29 PM
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He may of heard the name but this doesn't mean HPL was very familiar with AC's oeuvre or biographical infamy. The fleeting reference to a British cult leader (or however it's phrased) and the date of this collection of letters (1934-1937) with HPL then being in his forties, does suggest he wasn't aware of, shall we say, the 'purpose' of AC. The lack of further comment on AC by somebody who was otherwise very effusive in his letters on various topics and personages of the day, tends to convey this.
I'd forgotten HPL did a review of Cline's novel (a pure corker), which does indeed draw reference to "those innumerable rhapsodies of Aleister Crowley, monstrous alike in erudition and obliquity". |
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sethur666 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 - 04:24 PM
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| As I have pointed out elsewhere, the Weird Tales crowd certainly knew of Crowley, as the character of Rowley Thorne is based upon him. Moreover, Lovecraft may have had contact with Grimoire magic in his trips into rural New England. The local equivalent of cunning men/hoodoo men certainly practised with grimoires to hand in the area, one of them being Joseph Smith's father, and given that this type of magic has survived elsewhere into the modern day and that the Long Lost Friend was written in one of the original 13 States, Lovecraft may well have based his rural wizards on people he actually met. In such a case, a bibliophile like HPL cannot have resisted at least trying to read the books they had. |
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przm28 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 10, 2008 - 09:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 11, 2006
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| Smiths father? do have any links/elaborate/info on this? |
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anlala |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Justin Woodman
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 10:42 AM
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Joined: Aug 11, 2006
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FraterUraeus wrote: › Boris wrote: › The goetia is just as fake. Doesn`t mean it doesn`t work.
93,
Oh my! The only difference is the Goetia's calling forth of real spirits
93, All,
Fra. U.
Real eh?
“In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth, and the Paths, of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist.
It is immaterial whether they exist or not. By doing certain things certain results follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them. “ |
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sethur666 |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Justin Woodman
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 11:59 AM
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Joined: Jun 25, 2007
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regarding both Joseph Smith and his father, note the following, but also that the rituals they are talking about are clearly those from grimoires:
http://www.irr.org/mit/masonry.html
Steve W |
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lashtal |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Justin Woodman
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 02:46 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 2388
Location: Oxford, UK
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| Interesting site, Steve. Thanks for the link. |
_________________
Paul
Owner & Editor
LAShTAL.COM
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TauMelchizedek |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Justin Woodman
Posted: Apr 11, 2008 - 03:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 03, 2006
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In the OTOA the Necronomicon Gnosis and archetypes have been used at times. Here you can find some of Bertiaux's ideas on it: http://www.techniciansofthesacred.com/new_page_38.htm
I have also seen other papers on the N-Gnosis from the OTOA environment floating around the net.
'best
David |
_________________
"The blood-glow is an uninterrupted, profoundly disturbing access of awe. A dark atmosphere throbs and ferments within hidden hovels. Wild, raucous cries blend with the crashing of storms. Being speaks in a demonic voice out of the murky twilight; but the glowing crimson of a winter evening is encircling the world, and a blazing fire directs its light upon the pursuing powers. The flame and smoke of the hearth fire shudder in the holy night before the savage force of the winds."
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N.O.X |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 24, 2008 - 05:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2005
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93/23
I'd like you all to say hello to the newest member of the E.O.D....me. Thanks Obed and Michael!
93 93/93 |
Last edited by N.O.X on Jun 28, 2008 - 09:47 AM; edited 1 time in total
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przm28 |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 25, 2008 - 04:56 AM
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Joined: Jul 11, 2006
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| thanks, Steve. Interesting. I was born into a mormon family, grew up in the church. Gave me some perspective. |
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