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Seraphus |
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Post subject: Understanding the most basic of basics
 Posted: Feb 25, 2010 - 11:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 25, 2010
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What are the consequences of doing Magick and Mysticism?
This is the most basic question I can think of. And I havnt gotten a clear understanding of the consequences. |
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Sit vis tecum
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Curious |
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Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 12:14 AM
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Joined: Feb 19, 2010
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i will help you with your questions.
consequences...
sounds like symptoms.
everything you will find hear is the realization that you control your own reality.
"Make it so" would be a reflection of the basic principle or Law AC once wrote.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
it is really up to you learn how to comprehend this... it can be comprehended clearly however.
Magick can teach to alter reality as you see it
this is as best as i can explain.
and as vague as possible.
its generally accepted to do things that way.
"OoOoOOOooOOo" |
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alrah |
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Post subject: RE: understanding the most basic of basics
Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 12:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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Moderator's Note
Abusive and aggressive post deleted. |
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Form is the mind's abacus - Dar es Alrah.
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Curious |
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Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 12:28 AM
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Joined: Feb 19, 2010
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to protect myself, and my curious topic poster.
ego hmmmm
you know it exists, thats a start.
to help cleanse.. i recommend watching star wars Alrah
certainly these attacking insults...lead me to believe you may know quite a bit of information on the topic(s) in this forum
In "theory" and "practice"<---
pay attention to this one,
Curious, is my ego for this place... "HELLO"
-Love.
(Oh lashtal! can i get another lock?) |
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Los |
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Post subject: Re: understanding the most basic of basics
Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 12:40 AM
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Joined: Nov 02, 2008
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Location: NY
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Ideally, the consequences of practicing magick and mysticism are a greater insight into your own being and an ability to distinguish what you actually are from what you "fondly imagine yourself to be," to closely paraphrase Crowley.
It's not that you "control your own reality" -- it's that the optimal way to have control over the real world is to be in touch with it.
It's possible to generate certain "trance" experiences and interesting feelings and/or visions through magical and mystical practices, but all that stuff is secondary at best. |
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Lucius |
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Post subject: RE: Re: understanding the most basic of basics
Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 03:54 AM
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Los, I would add that not only are you distinguishing that which you are from what you "fondly imagine yourself to be", there is further the ability (once you have determined the reality of yourself and the illusions you have of yourself) to consciously participate in an act of creation of yourself as you Truly Will to be.
Personally, I would recommend yogic practices for someone new to Thelema, and don't be skittish about classes. We have more access to eastern methods of illumination now than we ever previously did in the west. There is a group of Theraveda Buddhists (including monks) right across town where I live: Crowley had to travel all the way to what is now Sri Lanka... |
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WSB93 |
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Post subject: RE: Re: understanding the most basic of basics
Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 06:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 04, 2010
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| Magick is governed by a naturtal law along the same lines of Newton's law of motion: "For every action there is an equal or opposite reaction." The outcome of this reaction is controlled by the Magickans Will, witch in turn makes the training and strengthening of this Will, the ultimate aim of any true Magickan. The weaker this Will is, the more unexpected the consequenses or 'reaction'. |
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Brendan831 |
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Post subject: RE: Re: understanding the most basic of basics
Posted: Feb 26, 2010 - 07:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 25, 2010
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| Do you mean "consequences" as in benefits, or risks? |
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Seraphus |
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Post subject: RE: Re: understanding the most basic of basics
Posted: Feb 27, 2010 - 09:10 PM
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Risks mostly.I understand the benefits it can bring. Im usualy the type to run in first guns blazing. But this is something I dont understand the risks (if any).
I really appreciates yalls time. (hehe I type yall, im so from Texas) |
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Sit vis tecum
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Brendan831 |
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Post subject: RE: Re: understanding the most basic of basics
Posted: Feb 27, 2010 - 11:55 PM
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Risks eh? Well, there are risks to magick & meditation, and risks to avoiding these things. Similarly, there are risks to being in a group and risks to being a solitary. Bottom line: the risks run the gamut from madness and death on one extreme, to eccentricity and extreme isolation on the other. The possible rewards are a life of meaning and purpose, knowledge and empowerment beyond what most people can conceive of and just plain happiness.
My advice is to build a solid foundation first. Are you in reasonably good health? If not, see a doctor, not an astrologer. Do you have an education? If not, go to community college, not the Masons. Can you maintain healthy social relationships? Hold down a decent job? You see where I'm going with this? Many people get involved in the occult because they can't hack modern life. Some people get involved because they CAN but want MORE. Using occult forces to help with these things can be done, but it often takes longer and is more difficult. Build your pyramid from the base up and you'll tend to avoid some of the worst pitfalls.
93s,
Brendan |
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gurugeorge |
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Post subject: Re: understanding the most basic of basics
Posted: Feb 28, 2010 - 02:32 AM
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Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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Location: London, UK
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Seraphus wrote: › What are the consequences of doing Magick and Mysticism?
This is the most basic question I can think of. And I havnt gotten a clear understanding of the consequences.
Most succinct answer I can think of (while standing on one leg):-
Mysticism - you will realise you are God.
Magick - you will realise everything else is God. |
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"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
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Horemakhet |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 28, 2010 - 06:32 AM
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Location: Montreal,Quebec
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| There are risks. The wizard plays with his own mind to create experiences that most people do not have. You could view it as athleticism of the mind. However, you do not need to do these things to appreciate, enjoy something like 'Thelema'. In the end, it is your choice. |
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Seraphus |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 08:39 PM
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Thanks, ive been sweating this answer for awhile. I takes huge burden off my shoulders.
Ill admit I have not a even a basic understanding of this yet. Im kinda studying on my own. Mustering the will power to study is difficult. But I do manage to make time. If you guys have any other advice for a bottom dweller please i would greatly appreciate it. Pull no punches. |
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Sit vis tecum
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AEternitas |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 08:46 PM
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| A problem I seem to have is that I can study and read and theorize endlessly but when it comes to regular practcie, It can be a boot strap operation. Start out with some simple rituals and excersices and get yourself some first hand experience. |
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Seraphus |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 09:17 PM
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Rituals and excersices eh? Where would you recomend me to start. I mean their so much information I dont know where to start. I work with sigil magick and im operantly good at it.
Im glad yall are so helpful. I half expected to be terrorized from the get go about this. But yall seem to be very helpful. |
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Sit vis tecum
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alrah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 09:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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Magickians always start with the LBRP, Seraphus.  |
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Form is the mind's abacus - Dar es Alrah.
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AEternitas |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 10:20 PM
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| likewise you could also start with learning the basics of relaxation and meditation. Other useful beginnings would be learning the basics of the tarot, and the art of scrying via symbols, such as the five tattwas. That would give you a good solid grounding of experience and you could pursue just about any western magical school of learning and practice with these basics under your belt. |
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AEternitas |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2010 - 10:24 PM
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| On second thought, on this forum I suppose it would be more appropriate to suggest you start with Liber E and Liber O and as well Liber Causae and Liber Librae and most importantly AL. |
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Sol2Sol |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 02, 2010 - 12:20 AM
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| If I were just beginning with the 'most basic of basics,' I'd start with doing Liber Resh for a month before moving on to something like LBRP. If you can commit to the disipline and make every adoration, you show great promise in a lifetime of learning and practicing Magick. And it is a lifetime of Work. Pitfalls and triumphs alike. Best regards. |
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Seraphus |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 02, 2010 - 09:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 25, 2010
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| Thanks for the advice. Im starting tomorrow with Liber Resh. |
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Sit vis tecum
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alrah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 02, 2010 - 09:57 PM
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gurugeorge |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 03, 2010 - 11:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| That's great advice about Liber Resh. Then you can add saying adoration to the moon (Gayatri) and "saying will" before meals and things like that. I think the advice is good to start slow and easy - enjoy yourself, there's no real burden yet, except that you MUST do those few easy things without fail. Then you gradually ratchet up the "tension", till you are doing those regular little things plus a regular regime of occasional "bigger" practices (again, without fail). |
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"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
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Seraphus |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 04, 2010 - 09:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 25, 2010
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| I understand. Can you clarify "Tension"? And what am I building by doing these rituals without fail? |
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Sit vis tecum
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gurugeorge |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 04, 2010 - 10:20 PM
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Seraphus wrote: › I understand. Can you clarify "Tension"? And what am I building by doing these rituals without fail?
It's like, things start getting a bit "hairy" - reality around you starts to appear alarmingly malleable, fluid - the more you do these practices, there's a cumulative effect that's sort of close to madness. You get apparent sychronicities, the sense that "demons" or "spirits" or "gods" are possessing people you meet and talking to you through them, that kind of thing. Now, the thing you're after isn't this mad state, but what happens after you gently but inexorably persist through the mad state. If you can just hold it together, chances are (though it's not infallible - it's still possibly you could go mad, it's just not likely, as, statistically - many have attained) that you will burst through into a state of being and understanding that you could not have previously conceived.
So "tension" is a sort of catch-all word for this (it's a more benign way of looking at it).
The regularity of the rituals and meditation also builds up a feeling of power and confidence (if you've been rigid in doing all the little things you say you will do, you start to feel a divine afflatus - inspiration - the inner conviction that your word will become reality). Whether the success sought is more to the magickal side of things (e.g. success at invocation, rewarding and informative astral work, inspiration from the Muses) or to the mystical side (attainment of anything from "glimpses" all the way up to full and permanent moksha) is up to the work you're doing - the kind of work you've chosen, that inspires you. (Once you've had a wee go at everything, and settled on something you like.) |
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"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
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Seraphus |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 05, 2010 - 05:31 PM
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I understand. Are these signs for Liber Resh important? Im weary to start until I know im either doing right or until I understand thats its all relative. Last thing I want to do is piss off something from next dimension.
lol Sorry I have to keep my sense of humor intact. |
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gurugeorge |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 05, 2010 - 09:45 PM
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Seraphus wrote: › I understand. Are these signs for Liber Resh important? Im weary to start until I know im either doing right or until I understand thats its all relative. Last thing I want to do is piss off something from next dimension.
lol Sorry I have to keep my sense of humor intact.
It's important to do rituals as prescribed. The Signs are important, every detail is important, and it's wise to strive for perfection and precision as much as possible and feasible given your relative (worldly) condition (no point in being silly about it, and you need to keep things in proportion - just remember the main effect you're after is a build-up of willpower and concentration, everything else is subordinate to that - cf. in Little Essays Toward Truth, where AC talks about building up Energy in itself being sufficient, for when the energy is enough, the dam will burst, willy-nilly).
When you're dealing with gods, they're pretty forgiving - after all, they're gods, why should they care about some trifling detail of a faux pas on your part? With demons, maybe it's different - perhaps they're more whimsical. (i.e. they don't really care either, but they might want to make you think they care, just to upset you when you get it wrong  ) OTOH, there are supposed to be some proper bureacrats in the astral too, so best to prepare as well as you can.
Keep your sense of humour! Sense of humour usually betokens a sense of proportion (cf. Liber Librae). What gods and demons respect and fall in love with is a balanced human being; they will disdain or torture the fanatic. Perhaps spirits perceive balance as comeliness!
Mystical and magickal practices ideally go hand-in-hand. Magick will prevent you from dozing off in ecstasy, mysticism will ground you in reality (the reality of your true being) no matter how weird the magick stuff (i.e. life) gets.
All the above FWIW, from someone who himself only practices imperfectly, but this is what I've gleaned from my teachers. I sincerely wish you the best of luck in your practices - may you attain!  |
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"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
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Seraphus |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2010 - 07:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 25, 2010
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| Interesting... do these gods have anything to do with what David Icke talks about with extra dimensional beings? |
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Sit vis tecum
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michaelclarke18 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2010 - 08:26 PM
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| Everybody has a different view of what magick is, how they wish to use it and how it may actually be utilized. Each has to find their own way through. |
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''The serpent, SATAN, is not the enemy of Man, but He who made Gods of our race, knowing Good and Evil''
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gurugeorge |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2010 - 10:32 PM
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Seraphus wrote: › Interesting... do these gods have anything to do with what David Icke talks about with extra dimensional beings?
I don't know what David Icke says about extra dimensional beings, but judging from the bits of Icke I've browsed, I doubt it.
I have a rationalist sort of take on it, so I'm probably not the best person to ask |
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"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
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HelDiem |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 06, 2010 - 10:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 31, 2010
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Seraphus wrote: › Interesting... do these gods have anything to do with what David Icke talks about with extra dimensional beings?
I don't think the gods correspond to Icke's 4th dimensional entities.
David Icke claims that initiation is when you allow your vibrational frequency to become the vibrational frequency of a demon entity from the 4th dimension so that it can possess you more easily, iirc.
Crowley spoke of one of the dangers of being a new magician is that some entity could knock out the Magician's ego and replace it. That's a paraphrase and I don't really remember in which Crowley work I read that, but I guess the theories are similar. If I am wrong on that point, I am sure I will be corrected shortly.
David Icke is a fun read because he's not afraid to just go with his theories, and he really just runs with it. |
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