| Author |
Message |
lashtal |
|
Post subject:
 Posted: May 28, 2008 - 01:01 PM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
A long review from UK TV's Channel 4 concludes:
Let's call it what it is: a vanity project, one naturally slathered with Iron Maiden hits, unsubtly crowbarred into the action. "Your time will come!" says a prophet of doom at one point, immediately followed by 'Maiden's 'Wicker Man' lyric: "Your time will come, your time will come!" If Jimmy Page managed to alchemise his Crowley fixation into gold, lesser rockers, it seems, can produce only handfuls of tin.
http://www.channel4.com/film/reviews/film.jsp?id=166568 |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 28, 2008 - 04:37 PM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 29, 2008 - 08:45 PM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
This from the people behind the movie:
On general release tomorrow!
Come and see Chemical Wedding this weekend!
The film finally opens in the UK only on 30th May in the following cinemas:
Apollo West End (lower Regent St) 0871 220 6000
Showcase Cinemas:
Newham
Reading
Peterborough
Birmingham
Derby
Dudley
Coventry
Nottingham
Walsall
Bristol
Cardiff
Leeds
Liverpool
Manchester
Teeside
Glasgow East
Paisley
For further information check out the Showcase cinemas website http://www.showcasecinemas.co.uk or call to book tickets on 0871 220 1000 |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
sethur666 |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 30, 2008 - 09:02 AM
|
|
Joined: Jun 25, 2007
Posts: 290
Status: Offline
|
|
| The Metro, a free morning newspaper distributed in most British cities, has given it one star. I don't think they do zero stars. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 30, 2008 - 10:54 AM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
sethur666 wrote: › The Metro, a free morning newspaper distributed in most British cities, has given it one star. I don't think they do zero stars.
 |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
sethur666 |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 30, 2008 - 11:37 AM
|
|
Joined: Jun 25, 2007
Posts: 290
Status: Offline
|
|
Mind you, they describe Crowley and a 1930s drug and sex crazed Satanist. I don't get it, why do so many people outside Thelema associate Crowley so much with the 1930s, in many ways his least fertile decade? (prepares for accounts of Crowley's achievements in the 1930s).
Is it because it was in this period he became more and more dependent on collusion with the press (allegedly)? |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
sethur666 |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 30, 2008 - 01:27 PM
|
|
Joined: Jun 25, 2007
Posts: 290
Status: Offline
|
|
The Guardian, one star. Crowley? Devil worshipper, Satanist. Ho hum.
Steve W |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 30, 2008 - 02:03 PM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ianrons |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 30, 2008 - 02:49 PM
|
|
Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 1065
Location: U.K.
Status: Offline
|
|
I think what's coming through here is that journalists are now expected to have read at least one biography, since they now feel able to give a small amount of detail in order to label him "passé" (but AC still isn't so widely read that he can be regarded as serious in any way).
Previously (before last year, I suppose), hacks were expected merely to rely on recycled media reports. At least this is my impression.
I suspect the "boring", "passé" interpretation will now persist, since it saves the denizens of the Street of Shame from the embarrassment of being seen reading such an unfashionable author first-hand, but they will still be able to show off at dinner parties by regaling their fellow troughers with tales of AC's high jinks. Move over Gauss -- this is the Law of Least Journalistic Effort. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
BlueKephra |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 30, 2008 - 02:57 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 13, 2005
Posts: 333
Status: Offline
|
|
| 20 seconds ago on Radio Five live, "a terrible film" "listen to some Iron Maiden instead" |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
sethur666 |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 30, 2008 - 03:06 PM
|
|
Joined: Jun 25, 2007
Posts: 290
Status: Offline
|
|
So Crowley was a Victorian Edwardian magician of the 1930s. That's what I call magic! But how sad it is when one of the least arguable descriptions - "Notorious occult guru" - is from the Sun.
Steve W |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 30, 2008 - 03:24 PM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
sethur666 wrote: › But how sad it is when one of the least arguable descriptions - "Notorious occult guru" - is from the Sun.
All the epithets I quoted are at least moderately accurate in some sense. That's the puzzle and fascination of the man. |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2008 - 01:20 AM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
From The Observer...
Stylistically, it resembles a demented version of those Hammer Studios occult horror flicks based on black magic novels by Dennis Wheatley, a writer much influenced, in his fiction at least, by Crowley's personality and works. There are references to Einstein, L Ron Hubbard, Stephen Hawking, black holes, alchemy, quantum physics, along with much copulation, masturbation, urination, decapitation and mortification.
It's unintentionally funny and indifferently acted, except by Simon Callow, who gives a barnstorming performance that seems to be an attempt to rival Donald Wolfit and Henry Irving in The Bells. But it's never boring. |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
nemo418 |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2008 - 01:59 AM
|
|
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 10
Status: Offline
|
|
| Only 5 people were in the cinema including me and aisha. Probably not going to be a blockbuster, really funny and enjoyable! I reckon it will become a 'cult classic' like the devil rides out (similar ending), or the wicker man. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2008 - 02:03 AM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
For no reason whatsoever, I find myself gratified that you enjoyed the movie.
I agree with your "cult classic" remark... |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
sethur666 |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2008 - 09:57 AM
|
|
Joined: Jun 25, 2007
Posts: 290
Status: Offline
|
|
| Of course, Plan 9 from Outer Space is a cult classic too. Becoming one isn't necessarily good. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2008 - 11:40 AM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
Dr Dave Evans has published a review of the film on Plutonica from the perspective of an "occult historian": "I’ve written two books about AC and presented academic papers about him, so I reckon I know a little…"
He doesn't like it.
http://plutonica.net/2008/05/31/film-re ... -spoilers/ |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Camlion |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2008 - 08:20 PM
|
|
Joined: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 1277
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: Offline
|
|
Well, if it simply opens the door for future cinematic efforts, I suppose that is something. I'm sure that I will buy the DVD, watch it, and stick it on the shelf with the stuff recorded from television.
-Camlion |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
sonofthestar |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2008 - 09:10 PM
|
|
Joined: Jul 14, 2005
Posts: 357
Location: The United States of America
Status: Offline
|
|
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
I can see how an Historian on Crowley and Magick might be a tad upset, --if they go see the picture for any other reasons than being simply entertained. Better that they give the film a bad review because they regard AC higly, than giving the thumbs down just because they hate AC and anything having to do with the Occult, Thelema , or his name.
When I enter the theater, or see a DVD or video, I do not commence my viewing--- as any kind of expert, critic, or nit picker,--but only to enjoy the movie.
I was not upset at all when early monster movies referred to the creature itself as "Frankenstein" and not "The Monster". It did not trouble me at all, that Erik the Phantom was "born" looking like he did in the novel itself, but in most of the films based on that book he is that way as a result of having acid thrown in his face etc.
If someone makes a movie about WWII and cannot find the correct kind of Sherman tank used in the African Theatre of operations--and has to make do with the version that came out towards the very end of the war using an entirely different kind of suspension system, I am not going to make a big too-do over it; --not even if the Officer in command says "bring up the Shermans" and a company of Pershings roll out!
I will even overlook the abundance of errors found in most Occult thrillers!
Is one going to be so upset by what one sees as to let it interfere with the purpose of just having fun? Must a movie absolutely agree with what we know or think we know concerning the subject matter? In a serious documentary, yes----but a serious documentary is a far different thing than something that is supposed to simply entertain and amuse.
Even a movie that has as it's purpose the outright vilification of something we cherish can be enjoyable and funny if looked at from an Illuminated perspective!
Notice also how in The United States, and possibly elseware-- there seems to be a tendency to glorify criminals in film, when in reality they are most often on the whole no more than selfish thugs; how less than wholesome figures from popular myth are celebrated in films as though they were real -- in any tense--past or present.
It is no surprise then, that a true Hero and champion for human freedom so misunderstood as AC ----is, was, and will be portrayed by the popular press and film as someone bad. This is the Irony of Life! We must live with it.
It is my will only to be entertained when watching moving picture shows of any kind, and it will be the same for this one---no matter how much I might or might not know about AC and Thelema.
People have to recollect that many movies are usually unique "adaptations" of books, or whatever else they are based on, and even if those things they were derived from really happened a lot of truth can be lost in the translation.
From what has been written, someone could make a Crowley movie that is very accurate concerning AC, and Thelema---yet even then, it would only be a glimpse of the way things really were and are. As far as movies go, it is possible that an accurate and non upsetting version of things might oddly miss the essential suchness of "how it really was"---whereas a totally flawed and upsetting take on things might actually capture the "real flavor" of a subject or an era..
Perhaps the big story here, is that the movie stands as a testament to a man called Dickinson manifesting his will-- in spite of the obstacles presented to him. It seems from what I've gathered, that even with a lot of money, he still had much trouble trying to see this particular manifestation of his will come to life as a tangible reality..
So, if any of you are or will be upset by this Crowley "character" in the movie and would seek to do The Prophet of the New Aeon justice on film, get to it! Now is the time to write your screen play!
Strike whilst the iron's hot!
I have not seen the movie yet; when I eventually do, my review will most likely consist of a one word either way! If it does not fail to amuse and entertain me I will give it a Yes: if it does not meet these criteria I will give it a No. What I saw on the trailer met the criteria I fancy in a movie--amusement and entertainment value. I think Dickinson set out to make an entertaining movie and I think he most likely succeeded.
If AC is who he said he was---this movie or any other movie cannot hurt him or Thelema.
All in all, the move is a good thing for those who can forget about who or what they are, and just enjoy a movie for what it is!
Love is the law, love under will. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
nemo418 |
|
|
Post subject: plan 9
Posted: Jun 02, 2008 - 03:38 AM
|
|
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 10
Status: Offline
|
|
| I like plan 9 from outerspace as well, Boris, bald headed bloke, goth type woman. Beware phlogiston abuse! |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Equinoxstudios |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 03, 2008 - 04:35 PM
|
|
Joined: Apr 20, 2008
Posts: 28
Status: Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 03, 2008 - 05:42 PM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
Ivor,
I'm beginning to wonder if your dislike of the movie is masking something perhaps a little more personal? You appeared to be involved in the early promotion of the movie - pre-release - but since then you've published your "review" in a number of places almost as if you're on some sort of crusade. I note you've also placed the trailer on YouTube, perhaps as some sort of honey trap.
You're certainly not alone in disliking the movie but I do think it would be appropriate for you to declare any personal interest. It is, after all, only a piece of humorous froth and your obsession with it is beginning to look a little odd. Did "Equinox Studios", I wonder, have some sort of commercial interest? Of course, there's no reason why you shouldn't express your own opinions far and wide: I'd just prefer it if you didn't use LAShTAL.COM to promote any personal issues you might have with the film makers... |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
achad |
|
|
Post subject: clarification- or addition
Posted: Jun 03, 2008 - 07:52 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 16, 2003
Posts: 118
Status: Offline
|
|
Paul is being a little selective in just quoting me as a historian and from that perspective only
indeed, i am one, and i hated the film as a historian - if you cast your mind back to Mel Gibson's Braveheart you might recall a stomper of a film, but it is historically miles out, and the manifold errors and wildly untruthful plot devices infuriate historians of that period. This film is not a stomper, it is just very poor, IMO. One of the things i am trying to do as a historian of occult matters is to get a better, more accurate and more sensible academic view of AC out there, and defuse some of the tabloid nonsense that prevails. This film will put that hope back by a decade... "how many times did Crowley use to crucify prostitutes and why did he shave their fannies?" is an example of a question i'm now expecting to meet regularly from academics in other areas of study who know little about the man but who are perhaps more likely to see this nonsense of a film than read a sensible book about him)
i hated the film as an occultist
i hated the film as a mere film-goer, it makes a lot of the tosh that followed Hammer Horror look professional, and i begrudge Mr Dickinson the 7 quid it cost to get in to see it
i hated the film as a vehicle for Bruce Dickinson to self-promote: i do honestly suspect some of the motives that i speculate on in my review on plutonica.net, and i further suspect that AC, had he met Bruce, would be withering
dave e |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject: Re: clarification- or addition
Posted: Jun 03, 2008 - 08:15 PM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
As you know from our previous correspondence, I have the greatest respect for your work.
achad wrote: › One of the things i am trying to do as a historian of occult matters is to get a better, more accurate and more sensible academic view of AC out there, and defuse some of the tabloid nonsense that prevails.
We share the same objectives.
Quote: › This film will put that hope back by a decade...
On this we are at variance: the movie is harmless because it is so obviously a confection. It'll do no more harm to Crowley's legacy than "Carry On Cleo" did to the pursuit of Egyptology. If it was more accurate then I might have been concerned, but it's so obviously in the tradition of English farce and so anachronistic in its details that only occultists and historians will ever take it even remotely seriously.
Quote: › "how many times did Crowley use to crucify prostitutes and why did he shave their fannies?" is an example of a question i'm now expecting to meet regularly from academics in other areas of study
Then I'm not sure they're worth being dignified by a reply.
Look, the serious work is being done in books like the rather wonderful "Secret Agent 666" by Richard Spence. It's to research like this that we need to look, not a harmless piece of whimsy like "Chemical Wedding".
Quote: › i further suspect that AC, had he met Bruce, would be withering
Really?
Anyway, I stand by my review, which acknowledged the movie's many faults, and which I know for a fact has resulted in the arrival of many at this site in search of more information about the real Crowley. I suspect that AC would have been really rather pleased. |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
achad |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 03, 2008 - 08:31 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 16, 2003
Posts: 118
Status: Offline
|
|
thanks Paul
one of the problems of cultural reception is that cinema and visual media have a dominance... while good numbers of people read books, a LOT of people watch TV and go to the flicks - i point out in my research that the definitions and perceptions of the Left-Hand Path in common consciousness (if they are there at all) come not from writings by Crowley or Kenneth Grant or even Mme Blavatsky, but from nonsense in Indiana Jones and Dennis Wheatley films, and this Chem Wedding film is going to be taken in and perhaps taken as gospel by far more people than would ever read me, the mighty Ron Hutton or the new secret agent book (which looks fabulous by the way).... including a lot of folk who may have not known much if anything about AC before... it is in much the same way that Braveheart annoys Scots historians, or Jurassic Park irritates the crap out of paleontologists...
if i had the time and a silly amount of money i'd bankroll an anti Spinal Tap-esque film about Iron Maiden tours that had them drinking nothing but chamomile tea, growing orchids and founding the museum of needlepoint in Bishop's Stortford, in order to donate their own efforts, which had been painstakingly embroidered in those long evenings after gigs on a world tour, when there was nothing else to do... and see how Bruce liked it
Yes, as an aside, i think apart from all else, AC would have hated Bruce D's books, the Iffy Boatrace material : ) |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 03, 2008 - 08:40 PM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3192
Status: Offline
|
|
achad wrote: › i think apart from all else, AC would have hated Bruce D's books, the Iffy Boatrace material : )
That's something on which we agree! |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
MichaelStaley |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 03, 2008 - 10:19 PM
|
|
Joined: Apr 21, 2004
Posts: 1305
Status: Offline
|
|
Dave,
In my opinion you are taking this way too seriously. It IS only a fictional film, not a documentary. It's like complaining that 2001: A Space Odyssey gave a distorted view of space travel, or that gunfighters in the Wild West were not really like the Man With No name in A Fistful of Dollars, or that Bladerunner gave androids a bad press. It was created as entertainment, and is taken as such.
There are some fictional films which are regarded as bordering on the factual, but I doubt if this film is one of those, just as Herbert West: Reanimator was not confused with advances in cryogenics.
Best wishes,
Michael. |
_________________
"It's all in the egg".
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
bubbafett4hire |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 04, 2008 - 02:53 AM
|
|
Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 17
Status: Offline
|
|
| I have not yet seen the movie as i live in America and probably won't get to see it until someone loads it on a torrent file or i order it when it come out to DVD, but from what i have read from the pre release information and reviews here on this site and from the movie page its self as i am a huge fan of Iron Maiden and Bruce Dickerson. i can tell that this movie is not going to be historically incorrect in a lot of ways, but that Simon Collow does capture the spirit of Crowley with his use of tone and mannerisms one person who had seen the movie had wrote. But to my point in the tradition of Iron Maiden and if you have ever been to one of there concerts there all about showmanship you can't blame Bruce for making more of it then what need to be, after all isn't true to a point that if we took 200 random people and said who was Lee Harvey Oswald and what did he do about 150 would tell us if we asked the same 200 people who was Crowley and what did he do about 100 would say Crowley who? 75 would say the Ozzy Song? 20 would say oh he was that guy who practiced black magic and satanism (thanks to bad press) and the other 5 would probably be members of this board and try to set them right, so in short to have this film make inaccurate account of Crowley should be expected after all the majority wants fantasy when sells so much better and that all its about with almost any movie is making a buck off of it, but theres always that person or persons who go "WOW i wonder if all this is true" then they spend the next few days on Google looking up about Crowley and learn the truth for them selfs while the others go unenlightened and oblivious to the truth |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
sethur666 |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 04, 2008 - 09:10 AM
|
|
Joined: Jun 25, 2007
Posts: 290
Status: Offline
|
|
Hmm, you reckon 5 out of every 200 people is a member of Lashtal? I think the real point is that public perceptions are more affected by mass culture than academic work, and this film sets things back considerably from the point where Crowley was described as an English philosopher on (I think) Criminal Minds, or got into the top 100 most influential Britons of all times poll.
However, it doesn't seem as if that many people are going to see it. I doubt that Crowley's reputation will change very much, any more than Lovecraft's was changed by a scene in an obscure Australian film called Outback Vampires:
Newly arisen vampire to bloke who has unwittingly awoken her:
"Are you an ascended master, an acolyte of the Great Old Ones, a magus armed with all the power of the pantheon of mighty Yog-Sothoth himself? Or are you just some kind of jerk?" |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
bubbafett4hire |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jun 04, 2008 - 02:06 PM
|
|
Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 17
Status: Offline
|
|
sethur666 wrote: › Hmm, you reckon 5 out of every 200 people is a member of Lashtal? "
Ok maybe not five out of 200 but you can always hope |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
in 0° 
: 
in 27° 
: Anno IVxviii 
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
