| Author |
Message |
FraterNepios |
|
Post subject: The Circle in Liber ABA
 Posted: Jul 31, 2009 - 04:07 AM
|
|
Joined: Oct 08, 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Rome, NY
Status: Offline
|
|
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
It is 40" for the floor to my navel (being the height of the Altar) and I calculated the proportions and size of what my circle would need to be and it would need to be atleast 20 feet +in diameter! so that the Tau fits within the triangle as well as have room for the godnames and the pentacles out of the circle and to fit all the proportions correctly, has anyone else came across this stump in their construction especially when the largest I can do is half of that (10')? If so, what did you do to compensate and those who have not made a circle as in Liber ABA, any suggestions? I am sure there is much that can be done just looking for ideas as well as some reassurance on some ideas I have
-Frater Nepios
Love is the law, love under will. |
_________________
** Frater Νηπιοϛ=418 **
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
|
Zoshua |
|
|
Post subject: RE: The Circle in Liber ABA
Posted: Jul 31, 2009 - 12:55 PM
|
|
Joined: Jan 15, 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Terra Flores
Status: Offline
|
|
93
Yes indeed FraterNepios, that has been a subject of much laughter among my circle (so to speak). Your calculations at a glance seem right -- one would need a very large space to make the ABA circle to specs.
Best I can suggest is shrink it down for practical uses, keeping in mind its abstract ideal.
Now, in the astral temple... there's one place I can honestly say size doesn't matter  My own circle is to spec in that 'space' |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
uranus |
|
|
Post subject: RE: The Circle in Liber ABA
Posted: Jul 31, 2009 - 07:28 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 332
Status: Offline
|
|
| Yeah, very few people are able to construct their temples to the specs as set out by Crowley in Magick. It is, as Zoshua said, a pretty common joke. Most of the circles I have seen are between 6-12 feet depending on the temple. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
FraterNepios |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 02, 2009 - 03:09 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 08, 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Rome, NY
Status: Offline
|
|
93
Thank you and that does make much more sense.
Is there anything that you have drawn onto the floor instead of the tau or do you use less squares to fit the right proportions etc.
Another question for suggestion if you will =P I have a tile floor for my temple space and wish to draw the circle on it but I don't know what to use to draw it on the floor that can be erased whence I move from my current home. Is there a special paint or tape that can be peeled of? |
_________________
** Frater Νηπιοϛ=418 **
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
uranus |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 02, 2009 - 04:05 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 332
Status: Offline
|
|
| Don't use less squares by any means as the Tau represents the Tree of Life & with less squares you won't have a representation of the universe. Instead of using your altar as the basis of measurement use the squares themselves as the basis of measurement. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
FraterNepios |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 02, 2009 - 04:17 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 08, 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Rome, NY
Status: Offline
|
|
uranus wrote: › Don't use less squares by any means as the Tau represents the Tree of Life & with less squares you won't have a representation of the universe. Instead of using your altar as the basis of measurement use the squares themselves as the basis of measurement.
Okay but would that not make the Altar dinky? And I do notice in Liber ABA that he mentions the tau as the Rosy Cross, for obvious reasons, and then gives a list of examples then he writes and I quote "Whatever the form chosen, it is the symbol of the Great Work." Therefore I was thinking perhaps the Hexagram of the Beast on the floor (which is he Rosy Cross) but yet it is not of 10 points but 11... actually Liber ABA has 13 including the 3 points of the triangle... also an example of the form on the floor used was Fuller's Greek Cross of the Zodiac which is also of 13 squares... alot to ponder.
And can you really make paint out of Mercury and Sulphur? |
_________________
** Frater Νηπιοϛ=418 **
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
uranus |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 02, 2009 - 05:03 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 332
Status: Offline
|
|
The triangles represent the 3 veils of negative existence while the squares of the Tau are the sepheroth. Your altar doesn't have to conform to the size of your squares. Crowley writes about an ideal, if your altar is bigger that is no big. By changing the central image you are altering the symbolism of the circle, which is ok as long as you understand those changes & the implications. The Tau & Circle represent the Rosy Cross, sure, but that isn't the whole symbolism of the circle. Crowley's circle also isn't the be all, end all. There are many examples of magickal circles out there. Crowley's to me just represents the most complete symbolism.
As to temporary circles, you will find that redrawing the circle as you seem to want is a tedious and involved task. The best way is to buy a good, heavy cloth and paint the circle on it that way you can roll it up & put it away when not in use if your temple is going to be exposed to the "profane". I'd suggest using a carpet remnant or buying a carpet of the right size & flipping it over & painting the bottom white and then drive a nail through the dead center with 2 strings atttach and a marking tool of some sort. One string should be longer than the other. Use this to trace out the borders of your circle & then paint the circle etc. Leave the nail in so you know the center of your circle for drawing the Tau etc. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Azidonis |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 03, 2009 - 02:10 AM
|
|
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Status: Offline
|
|
93,
Regardie's The Golden Dawn indicates a great Altar build, namely the "double cube" approach.
It is summarized in Don Kraig's Modern Magick.
It can also be built for under $50.
93 93/93 |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
uranus |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 03, 2009 - 02:14 AM
|
|
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 332
Status: Offline
|
|
| Well under 50 with the right materials! |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
RifRaf |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 04, 2009 - 06:53 AM
|
|
Joined: May 10, 2008
Posts: 14
Status: Offline
|
|
| In the past when I had a small apartment and wans't "well off" as far as money is concerned I would use colored contruction paper for each Sephirot, and the Negative Veils. For the circle I used a large white bed sheet in which I drew the circle with the names using a sharpie. It sufficed at the time. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Azidonis |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 04, 2009 - 08:55 AM
|
|
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Status: Offline
|
|
93,
I find that some things are just better for personal use than others. When I was a young boy I found a stick, which was the perfect walking stick for me. As I grew older and used it more, it became a part of my personal effects. When I began active Magickal practices, it became the staff I used in place of a "wand" I did not have. To this day, over 20 years after finding that staff, it is still my staff. It holds a personal power that I honestly do not think I will ever find anywhere else.
And if Crowley wants me to get rid of it in favor of some expensive and elaborate design that he dreamt up and put into a book, then I suspect Crowley doesn't know as much about my "wand" as I do.
Point is, it really doesn't matter if you are performing rituals in play-like fashion in theaters as Crowley did at times, or if you are performing in the wilderness and living in a tent as Achad did, both methods will work. What works for you is more often than not going to be the more beneficial approach.
93 93/93 |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
FraterNepios |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 04, 2009 - 04:40 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 08, 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Rome, NY
Status: Offline
|
|
| I have now posted a picture into the members creations of a Circle Design (called: Circle Deisgn by Frater Nepios) based off Liber ABA's and proportionate to fit a 10'x10' space and 20"x20' base altar (40" High) but again as I have wrote inn the pictures description it has a set back of only about a 25" space between the altar and the western edge of the circle not giving much space to do the Sign of the Enterer without penetrating the edge however sufficient space to do other things. |
_________________
** Frater Νηπιοϛ=418 **
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Azidonis |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 04, 2009 - 09:07 PM
|
|
Joined: Jul 05, 2006
Posts: 383
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Status: Offline
|
|
93,
Personally, I know Crowley had this wonderful idea of the perfect circle, and came up with all sorts of things for this, but when it came down to it, he did his Abramelin Operation in his head during a walk across China. When he went through the Enochian Aethyrs he did them by Bou Saada, upon mountains and deserts alike. This hardly fits any of his descriptions.
I don't see why with all of the elaborate activities, Crowley didn't design the box to go into the center of the circle. I suppose he had a thing against crosses. I wouldn't sacrifice the space to perform parts of the ritual just because Crowley wants me to put my box "here", and I can't do that part of the ritual now.
Bottom line, make it effective for you. It's your circle man. The more time you spend on creating it, I agree it becomes enlivened by your energy so that is a good thing, but that's going to happen anyway.
When it comes to actual creation of a Circle, it's more common sense than anything. If you need more space on one side, move things towards the other side... if you cannot do that effectively, use different dimensions. You don't have to use Crowley's dimensions. Hell, you could use an 11' Circle and say the 11' is for Hadit and Nuit, and completely recreate your entire circle with different divisors of 11... You could toss four rocks down, one in each quadrant, do a Star Ruby inside of the rocks, and if you do it right the Circle will be created...
It's all just so many tools. The person with the most fancy tools doesn't always create the sturdiest house. In many parts of Crowley's instructions he uses a phrase similar to, "use your own ingenuim". This basically means figure it out.
I'm not trying to sound rude or anything, just making a point.
93 93/93 |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
FraterNepios |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 04, 2009 - 09:16 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 08, 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Rome, NY
Status: Offline
|
|
Azidonis wrote: › 93,
Personally, I know Crowley had this wonderful idea of the perfect circle, and came up with all sorts of things for this, but when it came down to it, he did his Abramelin Operation in his head during a walk across China. When he went through the Enochian Aethyrs he did them by Bou Saada, upon mountains and deserts alike. This hardly fits any of his descriptions.
I don't see why with all of the elaborate activities, Crowley didn't design the box to go into the center of the circle. I suppose he had a thing against crosses. I wouldn't sacrifice the space to perform parts of the ritual just because Crowley wants me to put my box "here", and I can't do that part of the ritual now.
Bottom line, make it effective for you. It's your circle man. The more time you spend on creating it, I agree it becomes enlivened by your energy so that is a good thing, but that's going to happen anyway.
When it comes to actual creation of a Circle, it's more common sense than anything. If you need more space on one side, move things towards the other side... if you cannot do that effectively, use different dimensions. You don't have to use Crowley's dimensions. Hell, you could use an 11' Circle and say the 11' is for Hadit and Nuit, and completely recreate your entire circle with different divisors of 11... You could toss four rocks down, one in each quadrant, do a Star Ruby inside of the rocks, and if you do it right the Circle will be created...
It's all just so many tools. The person with the most fancy tools doesn't always create the sturdiest house. In many parts of Crowley's instructions he uses a phrase similar to, "use your own ingenuim". This basically means figure it out.
I'm not trying to sound rude or anything, just making a point.
93 93/93
Yes a good point and a respected one as well. |
_________________
** Frater Νηπιοϛ=418 **
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
uranus |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 05, 2009 - 12:32 AM
|
|
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 332
Status: Offline
|
|
FraterNepios wrote: ›
Yes a good point and a respected one as well.
I agree and I think, judging by the chapter in Magick Without Tears on improvising the temple, that Crowley would have agreed as well. I think the dimensions etc. were part of the "blinds" in Crowley's work where he acted as if it was of the utmost importance that you conform to those standards and yet, he had a wand of copper and a purchased sword! |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
FraterNepios |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 05, 2009 - 01:08 AM
|
|
Joined: Oct 08, 2008
Posts: 55
Location: Rome, NY
Status: Offline
|
|
[quote="uranus"]
judging by the chapter in Magick Without Tears on improvising the temple, quote]
Which exact chapter is this? |
_________________
** Frater Νηπιοϛ=418 **
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
uranus |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 05, 2009 - 01:30 AM
|
|
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 332
Status: Offline
|
|
| Chapter 23. He doesn't necessarily discuss the circle but he discusses the way a magician by necessity, may have to compromise. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
FraterFR |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 06, 2009 - 07:44 PM
|
|
Joined: Nov 12, 2007
Posts: 39
Status: Offline
|
|
Frater Nepios -
The Tau and its significance etc is shown and explored a bit in Liber CMXIII - The Treasure House of Images. I'll send you the link if you require it. I had a look at the image you put up too, and it looks good, but I wondered if it wouldn't make more sense if your altar was only on the Malkuth square on the Tau, where the arms meet?
Light in Extension |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Uni_Verse |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Aug 07, 2009 - 07:04 AM
|
|
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Posts: 332
Status: Offline
|
|
| I place a point on a piece of paper and know that the temple is built aright and within God dwells. |
_________________
You are missing the point
There is only one verse, sung in infinite ways.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
in 1° 
: 
in 14° 
: Anno IVxviii 
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
