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Camlion |
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Post subject: Poll: What are your least favorite writings from Crowley?
 Posted: Jun 12, 2008 - 05:23 PM
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Joined: Apr 23, 2004
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Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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93,
I don't see this as having been a topic before. Please correct me if it has. I am still pondering my own nominations.
93 93/93
Camlion |
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Poelzig |
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Posted: Jun 13, 2008 - 12:02 AM
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I can honestly live without most of his poetry and plays, although I have used some passages in ritual.
Of his strictly magical writings, I know this will rankle some but Liber AL is less interesting and less substantial than his straightforward expository works such as Liber Aleph, Book of Thoth, Liber IV 1-4, etc. I even prefer most of the other Holy Books to AL.
As I've stated before, I appreciate Crowley as a magician, but I am not a "Thelemite." |
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the_real_simon_iff |
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Posted: Jun 13, 2008 - 10:32 AM
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93!
I don't like Liber OZ. It's redundant and sounds awful - a one-syllable joke...
Love=Law
Lutz |
_________________
"The Resistance to Change is intellectual Death, Insanity [...] the first clause in the Oath of the Black Brothers. The Law of Thelema is the Essence of Life, because of its perfect elasticity."
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ptoner |
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Posted: Jun 13, 2008 - 10:36 AM
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93
I would tend to also agree with Simon Iff on this one also...
It sounds like it should be spoken by a Headmaster to his pupils in a resounding, commanding voice.
A touch comical to me actually.
Almost like a dig at the Christian 10 commandments. |
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PTNR27
93 93/93
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Camlion |
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Post subject: Re: Poll: What are your least favorite writings from Crowley
Posted: Jun 13, 2008 - 04:35 PM
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93,
Among Crowley's major works, I have to say that my least favorite is Eqx. of the Gods. By this I certainly do not mean Liber AL itself, but this particular presentation of it. Although it meets its mandate, All this and a book to say how thou didst come hither and a reproduction of this ink and paper for ever --, it falls oddly flat to me. I much prefer other accounts of the events in question, of the Cairo Working, such as those in the Hag. As part 4 of Book Four, the deficiencies of Eqx. of the Gods seem even more apparent, following as it does the brilliance of the presentation of Magick in MTP. If Eqx. of the Gods were not supplemented by all Crowley's subsequent commentaries and elaborations on Liber AL, if it were simply judged standing alone, it seems a pretty sad effort to me, just falling oddly and uniquely flat for a major work from Crowley.
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Camlion |
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sethur666 |
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Post subject: RE: Re: Poll: What are your least favorite writings from Cro
Posted: Jun 14, 2008 - 08:14 AM
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For those dissing Liber Oz, try reciting it in the style of Martin Luther King - or for that matter Michael Hurst in the "Thelemic" episode of Hercules The Legendary Journeys. It works, especially if the audience respond with occasional cries of "93!" or "Tell it, Reverend"!
Steve W |
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LuxOrientis |
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Post subject: RE: Re: Poll: What are your least favorite writings from Cro
Posted: Jun 14, 2008 - 04:57 PM
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Quote: ›
For those dissing Liber Oz, try reciting it in the style of Martin Luther King - or for that matter Michael Hurst in the "Thelemic" episode of Hercules The Legendary Journeys. It works, especially if the audience respond with occasional cries of "93!" or "Tell it, Reverend"!
Steve W
93
Uhhh... which episode of Hercules The Legendary Journeys is the "Thelemic" ep?
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zardoz |
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Post subject: RE: Re: Poll: What are your least favorite writings from Cro
Posted: Jun 14, 2008 - 07:27 PM
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Liber OZ wasn't intended to be a great piece of writing. From what I can tell it was intended as a magickal act of liberation and seems largely directed to the lowest common denominator of human consciousness not to students or practitioners of the arts most of whom probably already know better.
The statement: There is no god but man from this Liber seems quite profound. I don't know that this idea gets expressed quite so well in any of AC's other writings. |
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lashtal |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Poll: What are your least favorite writings from
Posted: Jun 14, 2008 - 07:34 PM
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Site Admin
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zardoz wrote: › it was intended as a magickal act of liberation
After a fashion. The point is that it was a piece of Second World War jingoism, written in 1941. Crowley originally called it "War Aims" and tried to combine an encouragement to patriotic fervour with Thelemic idealism. Unsuccessfully, in my humble opinion. |
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Paul
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Camlion |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Poll: What are your least favorite writings from
Posted: Jun 14, 2008 - 08:21 PM
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93 Zardoz,
zardoz wrote: › The statement: There is no god but man from this Liber seems quite profound. I don't know that this idea gets expressed quite so well in any of AC's other writings.
Agreed. Profound and not emphasized enough elsewhere, although there is some fine elaboration in Reguli with "I also am a Star in Space..." followed by the LAShTAL formula itself.
"There is no god but man" is very first line of Liber OZ, excluding the quotations from Liber AL, but seems to be given the least attention by readers, who focus much more on the last line, "Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights." This is ironic, as the first line sheds so much light on the last one and, without a certain degree of understanding of the first line, the last line seems quite appalling to so many people.
Liber OZ remains a perennial pick for the least favorite Crowley writing list. Always very interesting.
93 93/93
Camlion |
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IAO131 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 15, 2008 - 01:57 AM
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Iskandar |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 15, 2008 - 05:36 PM
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| Liber 888 - The Gospel According to St. Bernard Shaw. For a variety of reasons but personally for his failure to make a distinction between ancient India and Palestine. He criticizes Shaw for not understanding the manner of life in the East (as if such a thing exists) by constantly providing examples of the lifestyle of Indian yogis to support his thesis (that what Christ did would not be strange in India). The book is disorganized and the argument weak and it attacks a straw man. Very much boring. I shrink in horror at the idea that one day this might become a required reading: a Thelemic educational dystopia. |
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lashtal |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 15, 2008 - 05:55 PM
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Site Admin
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Interesting that you should nominate Liber 888, Gordan.
I've always considered it one of the finest, most under-rated Crowley works, but I do understand the basis of your disapproval.
Fascinating... |
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Iskandar |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 15, 2008 - 06:45 PM
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| I am equally surprised by people's reaction to Liber OZ, Paul. I guess we all differ. I initially liked Liber 888 a lot, but after first 20 pages I just kind of lost it and the book did not pick up its integrity, for me, ever again. Editing might be the thing needed. |
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Walterfive |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 16, 2008 - 05:31 PM
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| Yeah, I'd put the plays and much of the poetry in the nomination for "least favorite." Certainly not all of it though-- some of it, such as "Hymn To Pan" is absolutely amazing! But Collected Works Vols. I-III pretty much leave me cold. |
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 19, 2008 - 05:53 PM
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93 IAO131,
IAO131 wrote: › The Comment to Liber AL and chapter 43 of Magick Without Tears for the same reason.
Interesting selections for the least favorite list.
MWT, oft quoted nowadays and considered by many to be the best and final word from Crowley on many subjects, owing in part to its publication late in his life. However, it is targeted to a very introductory level of readership, and some of the chapters seems to reflect the 'uninitiated interpretation' of their subjects. Other chapters, however, are excellent for the depth and breadth of their exposition. I'm looking forward to the upcoming 'new and improved' republication.
As for the Comment to Liber AL, I see it as a mixed blessing. I certainly agree with each individual inquiring into the message of Thelema on behalf of him or herself, each from their own unique perspectives. I agree with Crowley's writings being a primary supplemental resource, but not with them being the exclusive resource forever. As for forbidden discussion, I think that is a matter of degree and discretion.
93 93/93
Camlion |
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the_real_simon_iff |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 19, 2008 - 06:05 PM
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93!
Another one came to mind I never liked: Liber LI - The Lost Continent. As with Liber OZ, this is not about the contents, but I do not like it as it is written, the writing style, so to say.
Love=Law
Lutz |
_________________
"The Resistance to Change is intellectual Death, Insanity [...] the first clause in the Oath of the Black Brothers. The Law of Thelema is the Essence of Life, because of its perfect elasticity."
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zardoz |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Poll: What are your least favorite writings from
Posted: Jun 20, 2008 - 02:31 AM
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Joined: Jul 16, 2004
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Location: Grass Valley, CA USA
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lashtal wrote: › zardoz wrote: › it was intended as a magickal act of liberation
After a fashion. The point is that it was a piece of Second World War jingoism, written in 1941. Crowley originally called it "War Aims" and tried to combine an encouragement to patriotic fervour with Thelemic idealism. Unsuccessfully, in my humble opinion.
Circumstantially, it's easy to paint a picture that Liber OZ was magickly effective: At a time when it looks like Europe will be completely overwhelmed by fascism, Crowley composes an anti-fascist manifesto, has it published and sent to as many prominent people as he can. Five days later the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor and the US enters the war. |
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