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Joseph486 |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Jun 30, 2008 - 11:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 30, 2008
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| hehehe what did i walk into? I think what really is important here is establishing how Aleister Crowley felt about these things. In this way we will know the traditional teachings. ALso, I wanted to say that the guidelines of scientific experimentation given above would be of excellent use to the magician in his practice, infact I saved them. Thank you. |
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Joseph j. Eisner
The Last Christian
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גמל |
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Posted: Jul 01, 2008 - 11:44 AM
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Joined: Jun 25, 2008
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93!
Quote: › I think what really is important here is establishing how Aleister Crowley felt about these things. In this way we will know the traditional teachings.
Although I consider myself a more or less traditional crowleyan Thelemite I think we should also go beyond the prophets understanding of the current 93 because isn't Thelema more about evolving and dynamics than traditional dogmatism (although sometimes conservatism has its good purpose)? On the basis of the holy books which should never be changed? A firm, solid traditional fundament that is stable and deep enough to support a modern house of Thelema 
@Nehushtan:
Quote: › I'd still end with a conclusion which stated that the scientific method should be used as far as possible when forming magical theories
You are totally right with this point. 100% Ack.
93 93/93
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"Lovely chap, if dreadfully misinterpreted, and a bit too fond of the old laudanum"
Doctor Who, Timelord and british legend, about Aleister Crowley in the BBC Novel "Heart of Tardis"
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BaronSamedhi |
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Posted: Jul 03, 2008 - 02:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 06, 2006
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Firstly, I agree with Nehushtan, Iskandar et al who have shown some understanding for the scientific method: No (and I must qualify this) Magick is not a science...YET. The present state of popular Magickal practice does not come near to meeting the requirements of a bone fide science.
Now before I go on I must say that I in no way see this as a threat to the value or integrity of Magick or its practitioners. There have been a few defensive posts who obviously thought this question to be some sort of attack on the system of magick. Not so. In fact I believe that this sort of debate can only further our appreciation of this most wonderfull and mysterious Art.
The failure (or unwillingness) of Magicians of past and present to back up their assertions of scientific validity with credible studies stems, as I see it, from a few reasons.
1. Basic lack of resources. Scientific studies generally take a great deal of time and money and as there are very few professional magickians/magickal institutions out there nothing of significance can ever really get off the ground.
2. The fundamental difficulty inherent in such a subjective process. As the magickian is both the subject and object of most magickal experiments and is himself changed by the operation, accurate and meaningfull measurements of results is very difficult. This is not to say that it is impossible. The 'social sciences' have done much work in this area and could perhaps inform further studies of magick. This is the stickiest part in the argument of science and magick and if it can't be resolved then Magick will forever rest in the realms of Philosophy (not such a bad thing).
3. Limitations on our present understanding of natural (physical) laws. Because Magick uses natural laws (however poorly defined) in order to achieve a result it follows that eventually naturally sciences (particularly physics in my opinion) will be able to explain and accruately predict Magickal outcomes.
So don't write magick off as a science just yet. It may be a loooong time before science and Magick meet but I sure hope that I'm around to see it.
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