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faustian |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 02:04 AM
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Not to veer this topic off its usual tangent, but what is everyone’s opinion as to the resemblance of Crowley’s LAM and our classical pop culture’s rendition of the Alien Gray? Which came first and are they related?
Which then begs the question: Is Liber Al of alien origin? If so, what is the purpose? |
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priestofal |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 07:53 AM
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OKontrair --
I hadn't read of those instructions from Crowley to Grant before. You appear to be paraphrasing, but those words fit my thought that Lam is a woman's clitoris (and other bits) personified -- that "it" is a woman, basically. This idea is especially suggested by the reference to 'a girl's head'. The "crown of hearts" would seem to be a reference to the singular function of a clitoris, the transmittal and retrieval of love... If I am correct, then it is amusing (at least from this man's perspective) that a depiction of a woman's genitals and the concept of what is alien have become bound together in people's minds.... (Ahh, note the expression on Lam, too! Perhaps "his" head took a little co(a)xing out.) |
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the_real_simon_iff |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 09:07 AM
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OKontrair wrote: › 1. it was drawn from life.
2. ...not an apt fancy... a description accurate and recognisable by any person familiar with the subject.
3. you would not do this with other pictures....you would say 'a girl's head'.....etc.
93!
For clarity I attach the part from "Remembering AC", because I never realized that the part with the girl's head might be a hint, as priestofal suggested.
Letter from AC to Grant:
[...] The drawing which you covet.
The drawing has a title. I do not mean an apt fancy, but a description accurate & recognisable by any person familiar with the subject, like "The Tower Bridge by Moonlight" or "Portrait of Mr. Ernest Bevin" or "Barnham Beeches".
You are allowed 3 days and 3 guesses. If correct the drawing is yours; if not; the test can be repeated at the Autumn Equinox.[...]
AC's replay to Grant's effort:
I thought I had explained carefully that I wanted an answer, not a sermon! If I point to a tea-pot, and ask "What is that?" You don't say "The refreshing beverage which we owe to the Chinese calms the mind, and induces a state of feeling whhich is conducive to carrying on one's work" etc., etc.
This is a terrible defect in your outlook on life; you cannot be content with the simplicity of reality and fact; you have to go off into a pipe-dream.
Yet you wouldn't do this with the other pictures on the walls; you would say rightly "a girl's head" or "Boy from Martinique" or "Snow-peak beyond foothills" & so on, as the case may be. Idealism is the way to falsehood.
Grant goes on:
[...] Crowley was being difficult. My description was concise, considering that at that time I had not seen the portrait of Lam reproduced in the Blue Equinox in 1919. Crowley reconsidered his assessment and, a few days later, he handed me the picture with a dorsal inscription {To my very dear Frater Aussik 400 [...] "a very present help in time of trouble" (Trouble="Victory")} He had suffered grave bouts of asthma, and on May 8, 1945, he wrote in his diary: "Aussik helped a whole lot; gave him 'The Lama'". Crowley told me that the portrait had been drawn from life. [...]
For those who do not have the book present. I hope the quoting is still what is called "fair use".
Love=Law
Lutz |
_________________
"The Resistance to Change is intellectual Death, Insanity [...] the first clause in the Oath of the Black Brothers. The Law of Thelema is the Essence of Life, because of its perfect elasticity."
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OKontrair |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 09:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 18, 2004
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Yes, I was paraphrasing and I must have expressed myself poorly. I was wrong to assume everybody would just go get the book and look it up. Sorry.
I'll paraphrase again.
Crowley wrote to Grant and the subject of the letter was : 'The drawing which you covet.'
"The drawing has a title. I do not mean an apt fancy, but a description accurate and recognisable by any person familiar with the subject, like 'The Tower Bridge by Moonlight' or 'Portrait of Mr. Ernest Bevin' or 'Barsham Beeches'. "
Then Crowley gives Grant 3 days and 3 guesses. If correct the drawing would be his but even if not Grant could try again at the Autumn Equinox. Grant made his response which must have been off-target because Crowley then responded:
"I thought I had explained carefully that I wanted an answer, not a sermon! If I point to a teapot and say "What is that?" You don't say........(ridiculous long description of a teapot follows) etc.
Then a few disparaging remarks I'm to lazy to type out.
Then:
'You wouldn't do this with the other pictures on the walls, you would say rightly "a girl's head" or "Boy from Martinique" or "Snow peak beyond foothills" & so on, as the case may be. ........'
I have done a picture to illustrate what I mean and sent it to the gallery. If I knew how I would put it here but I never even got the hang of quotes.
As for the alien business, well I have never turned my mind in that direction. What do the gods/aliens, if any, want of us? These are the rabid nightmares of early farmers. All that sheep and lamb imagery inclines me to think that god wants us for food. If we behave one way we taste nicer, if not we need more time in the oven.
OK |
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the_real_simon_iff |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 09:23 AM
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93, OK!
I see we had the same idea.
OKontrair wrote: › I have done a picture to illustrate what I mean and sent it to the gallery. If I knew how I would put it here but I never even got the hang of quotes.
You need an url for the picture (afaik), you cannot attach it from your computer. If you want to, you can send it to me and I can put it on my website and give you the url.
Love=Law
Lutz |
_________________
"The Resistance to Change is intellectual Death, Insanity [...] the first clause in the Oath of the Black Brothers. The Law of Thelema is the Essence of Life, because of its perfect elasticity."
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OKontrair |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 09:38 AM
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Thanks Lutz,
I should have waited a few minutes. It's not easy typing when you're 120 years old.
I have already sent it to 'Members Creations' because there was not a section called 'Members members'.
I'll send you one anyway, and the other one will turn up here later.
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the_real_simon_iff |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 10:19 AM
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93!
Here is OK's picture:
Love=LAw
Lutz |
_________________
"The Resistance to Change is intellectual Death, Insanity [...] the first clause in the Oath of the Black Brothers. The Law of Thelema is the Essence of Life, because of its perfect elasticity."
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BlueKephra |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 01:20 PM
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nashimiron |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 01:29 PM
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Perhaps it's supposed to show the entire proccess of conception and birth in a single glyph.
Oh wait a minute, what if Lam is a secret agent? Maybe he's still alive and working for CSI or whatever they're called.  |
_________________
I fell off the Qliphothic tree and hit every branch on the way down...
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ptoner |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 01:36 PM
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It reminds me more of the sperm fertilizing the egg in this image above.
I have my own idea of what i think it represents but i would need to highlight sections of the image to clearly indicate how i see it.
To me i see the tree of life starting with malkuth as the earthly cloak. All the way up to kether which on the "crown" of Lams head has been isolated and obtains absolute compassion and so the unconditional universal love flows from the crown.
If you notice there are spheres down both sides of Lams face indicating the Pillar of Mercy and the Pillar of Severity on his left and right side. The middle pillar is indicated as the route to traverse indicated by the line encompassing the middle seperoiths.
The eyes form the veil below the first triad.
I am sure the more knowledgeable amongst us can develop this further... or possibly ridicule my comments.
In my opinion that's what i see. |
_________________
PTNR27
93 93/93
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 01:41 PM
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| I'm sorry but I can't buy the phallus idea, Andrew. Clearly when AC says it was "drawn from life" he meant to say this is representational art, expressing "the simplicity of reality and fact". And although the new scan is great and better not being "gray", I don't understand why it has to be upside-down. |
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ptoner |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 01:54 PM
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I agree Ian, the image was drawn and meant to be viewed the in its intended portrait position.
Why does it need to be turned up-side-down?
The fact you mention "Drawn from life" and "the simplicity of reality and fact" echoes my comments in relation to the "tree of life" contained within the drawing. |
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PTNR27
93 93/93
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OKontrair |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 02:02 PM
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Hi Ianrons
Did you just use the word 'clearly'? You bold brave fellow.
Nothing has to be upside down but generally I find the world so topsy turvey that nearly everything benefits from being looked at back to front and round the other way.
If it's a test piece or used as one then it brings to my mind the Rohrschach test. One of the considerations in that test is No.4 "Turning of the card with failure to turn being labelled a possible sign of depressive psychoses."
I do not really hold with the idea of things meaning other things. What then do those things mean?
Anybody's guess is as good as mine. My first two guesses by the way were:
1. Turnip without its leaves.
2. The Mekon of Mekonta.
3. - and current temporary opinion - a doodle of Crowley's dick.
I can't find it in me to take this picture seriously. Still, at least Prof. Rohrschach thinks I'm not a depressive psychotic.
OK |
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the_real_simon_iff |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 02:39 PM
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ptoner wrote: › If you notice there are spheres down both sides of Lams face indicating the Pillar of Mercy and the Pillar of Severity on his left and right side.
93!
I agree that there can be perceived spheres on the face. How about colouring them?
Love=Law
Lutz |
_________________
"The Resistance to Change is intellectual Death, Insanity [...] the first clause in the Oath of the Black Brothers. The Law of Thelema is the Essence of Life, because of its perfect elasticity."
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 02:55 PM
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Well, I see the familiar vulva-sipping AAlian that was commonly observed on the peyote trading routes in the American southwest* during the seventies. Yep, that's it!
* Hence the UFO conotation, perhaps?
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ptoner |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 03:05 PM
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the_real_simon_iff wrote: ›
I agree that there can be perceived spheres on the face. How about colouring them?
Thanks for the quick draft... good start, you left out the first triad tho! 
I intend to use Photoshop and the image once i get a bit of time and show the extent of the tree of life reflected in Lam's face how i envision it.
You certainly have made a great start for me, much appreciated Lutz. |
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PTNR27
93 93/93
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the_real_simon_iff |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 03:16 PM
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ptoner wrote: › you left out the first triad tho!
93!
It is hard to see in white, black and grey on a black and white drawing, but it is there 
Ain, Ain Soph and Ain Soph Aur would then be formed by the three rows of hearts?
Love=Law
Lutz |
_________________
"The Resistance to Change is intellectual Death, Insanity [...] the first clause in the Oath of the Black Brothers. The Law of Thelema is the Essence of Life, because of its perfect elasticity."
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ptoner |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 03:36 PM
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Now your talking my language.
I think all the factors are there, on show for us to see.
You also almost can make out the cross pattern that joins tiphereth, netzach, yesod & hod via the lips of lam. |
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ptoner |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 04:03 PM
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So within the "Egg" is the Tree of Life is how i imagine it overall.
Brings me back to the name Lam
Lam, (whose name derives from the Tibetan word for "way" or "path")
Does this not fit so nicely into the title of the image? |
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PTNR27
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michaelclarke18 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 07:53 PM
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the_real_simon_iff wrote:-
''So it seems pretty sure to me that the "crown" was once there''
To me, it looks a bit like the ''crown'' is something coming through from the other side of the paper. Maybe a drawing on the verso side? |
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 08:43 PM
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| The only trouble with the Tree idea is that it has Daath but not Tiphareth. Oh wait, that's perfect for Grant Maybe that's the answer? |
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jack93 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 28, 2008 - 11:54 PM
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Thanks for the upside down view that's quite a revelation.
In the upside down perspective is seems to me a drawing from life of coitus. That being Aleisters favourite pastime it would be disingenuous to consider otherwise.
Maybe after drawing it he turned it upside down and then drew the face, possibly from another inspiration.
After a time he prefers the face side up and does away with the crown. As he was always one for the subtle paradox he probably chuckled at the duality
My 2d anyway |
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ptoner |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 - 12:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 10, 2006
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