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paperroute50 |
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Post subject: C.F. Russel
 Posted: Oct 04, 2008 - 03:45 PM
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Seemingly a renegade from the very start he eventually formed his own splinter group and fell out with Crowley.
Is he looked upon in Thelema as a heretic or is he admired as smeone who did his will?
He's a curious figure to me since he never seems to get the kind of airplay that Grant,. Mc Murtey and other diciples got down the line. |
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Nataraj418 |
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Post subject: Re: C.F. Russel
Posted: Oct 04, 2008 - 09:59 PM
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paperroute50 wrote: › He's a curious figure to me since he never seems to get the kind of airplay that Grant,. Mc Murtey [McMurtry] and other diciples [disciples] got down the line. Probably because he (indeed) formed his own group and didn't claim to be the head of the OTO or Crowley's successor. |
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Nataraj418
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Aleisterion |
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Post subject: RE: Re: C.F. Russel
Posted: Oct 04, 2008 - 11:02 PM
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I've been told that this reference in One Star in Sight refers to him and his followers:
"The Name of The Order and those of its three divisions are not disclosed to the profane. Certain swindlers have recently stolen the initials A.'.A.'. in order to profit by its reputation." |
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lashtal |
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Post subject: Re: C.F. Russel
Posted: Oct 05, 2008 - 06:04 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Location: Oxford, UK
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paperroute50 wrote: › Seemingly a renegade from the very start he eventually formed his own splinter group and fell out with Crowley.
Is he looked upon in Thelema as a heretic or is he admired as smeone who did his will?
He's a curious figure to me since he never seems to get the kind of airplay that Grant,. Mc Murtey and other diciples got down the line.
It's "C F Russell", not "C F Russel"; "someone", not "smeone"; "McMurtry", not "Mc Murtey"; and "disciples", not "diciples". |
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Paul
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Nataraj418 |
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Post subject: Re: Russell
Posted: Oct 05, 2008 - 06:27 PM
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Aleisterion wrote: › "Certain swindlers have recently stolen the initials A.'.A.'. in order to profit by its reputation." Yes, that may have been aimed at Russell, but he is mainly remembered today not for any use of A.'.A.'., but of his own offering, the G.'.B.'.G.'.. |
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Nataraj418
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Aleisterion |
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Post subject: RE: Re: Russell
Posted: Oct 05, 2008 - 08:17 PM
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Nataraj418 wrote: "Yes, that may have been aimed at Russell, but he is mainly remembered today not for any use of A.'.A.'., but of his own offering, the G.'.B.'.G.'....."
There is also the Choronzon Club...but anyway, Genesthai's A.'.A.'. line of students is ongoing, as I'm sure is well-known. |
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uranus |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: C.F. Russel
Posted: Oct 09, 2008 - 03:15 AM
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Aleisterion wrote: › I've been told that this reference in One Star in Sight refers to him and his followers:
"The Name of The Order and those of its three divisions are not disclosed to the profane. Certain swindlers have recently stolen the initials A.'.A.'. in order to profit by its reputation."
Yes and I would say no. It was a reference to Russel but also a reference to his students that didn't report to Crowley but continued the A.'.A.'. work under that name. His lineage does continue to this day though, thanks in part to the Ordo Templi Astarte.
I personally am not an admirer, nor a detractor of Russel. I don't think he deserves to be observed in the same breath as Grant (nor does McMurtry) as far as his contributions to occult thought. That isn't detracting from what Grady did either, he simply didn't contribute to the evolution of the current on the same scale as Grant or even Motta. His was a different calling and his contributions to Thelema are just as important, just not in the same manner. Just wanted to be clear on McMurtry before people started flaming me. LOL. Russel was a genius, but sometimes genius doesn't produce to it's potential. |
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In case you can't figure it out, my comments are based on my experiences or learned from various teachers either right or wrong. I am not to be taken as an authority, if you assume such, that is you, not me.
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HeliosMegistos |
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Post subject: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 10, 2008 - 12:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 22, 2008
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paperroute50 wrote: › ...he eventually formed his own splinter group and fell out with Crowley... Llewellyn (the encyclo) says:
"G.'.B.'.G.'. - Great Brotherhood of God. An occult order whose objective existence dates from 1931 to 1938 inclusive. Its founder, C. F. Russell (Frater Genesthai), had been a student of Aleister Crowley. Crowley gave Russell permission to found his own Order based on Crowley’s famous Book of the Law, the concept of doing your Will, and the idea that we were now in the age of Horus."
There may well be other versions of the story.
I wonder if we could name (as many as) five people who did NOT "fall out" with Crowley. |
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Helios Megistos
Trustee, Arcania Online
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uranus |
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Post subject: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 11, 2008 - 03:11 AM
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| Yes we can, Frieda Harris, Kenneth Grant, Louis Wilkinson, John Symonds, Ataturk's mother, Grady McMurtry, Phyllis Seckler, Jane Wolfe, Krumm-heller, etc. LOL |
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In case you can't figure it out, my comments are based on my experiences or learned from various teachers either right or wrong. I am not to be taken as an authority, if you assume such, that is you, not me.
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HeliosMegistos |
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Post subject: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 11, 2008 - 03:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 22, 2008
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uranus wrote: › ... Harris, Grant, Wilkinson, Symonds, A's mother, McMurtry, Seckler, Wolfe, Krumm-heller, etc. I suppose we could even add G. Yorke (?). That would make a short list of 10, which exceeds my orignal requirement.
Congratulations! You have won an all-expense paid vacation into Cosmic Consciousness. Please send your name, address, ID numbers, bank account number, passwords, and mother's maiden name to receive your 3-day prize.
The people on the list do seem to be associated with the last decade of the prophet's life, and there are at least a couple about whom I might argue - but I won't, because you have clearly demonstrated that he didn't alienate everyone.
Thanks, HM |
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Helios Megistos
Trustee, Arcania Online
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lashtal |
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Post subject: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 11, 2008 - 05:43 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 2387
Location: Oxford, UK
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| And Oscar Eckenstein, cousin Gregor, various chess tutors and, of course, Rose, whose descent into alcoholism seems to have caused Crowley genuine distress. |
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gurugeorge |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 12, 2008 - 09:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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lashtal wrote: › And Oscar Eckenstein, cousin Gregor, various chess tutors and, of course, Rose, whose descent into alcoholism seems to have caused Crowley genuine distress.
And don't forget Karl Germer, a fine, upstanding gentleman if there ever was one.
I love that GBG book, btw - there are some wonderful photographs in there that are deliciously kitsch in a 50s Hollywood way. |
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"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
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uranus |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 13, 2008 - 03:14 AM
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| Actually Germer and Crowley DID have a falling out in the 1930s. It was Germer's experiences in the concentration camp that brought him back to Crowley. He was one of the few people that Crowley let BACK into his life after a falling out. I can't remember what it was over but it did occur. |
_________________
In case you can't figure it out, my comments are based on my experiences or learned from various teachers either right or wrong. I am not to be taken as an authority, if you assume such, that is you, not me.
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Patriarch156 |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 13, 2008 - 03:48 PM
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uranus wrote: › I can't remember what it was over but it did occur.
They fell out because of the usual reasons, Crowley wanted too much money which pput a stress on his relationship with his wife Cora who disaproved of Germer's dealings with A.C.. It also probably didn't help of course that he showed Germer's diaries around and discussed his "insanity" with other people, apparently being exasparated over Germer masturbating in front of his Scarlet Woman.
It should be noted that though there are claimants of aspirants under C.F. Russel, I have never seen any evidence for this as C.F.R. seemed more content in spreading his own organization G.B.G. (which the Choronzon Club is identical with). There certainly survives no such "lineage" or otherwise in the O.T.A. from him in A.'.A.'. matters since their only "contact" with C.F.R. would be through Louis Culling who were received as Frater Aequila by Max Schneider as introducing neophyte.
It is also true as noted elsewhere in this discussion that the reference to certain swindlers in One Star in Sight was a reference to C.F.R. whom Crowley was constantly worried about during the period of writing it, since he regularly presented himself as their representative and the structure of his Order, with some distinct changes, were very similar to that of the A.'.A.'.
As should be evident from the above it should also be noted that what Culling presented in his book on the subject bears little semblance to the actual structure and methods of the G.B.G. At best it is a highly edited, selective and embellished version of the writings of C.F.R. He even gave the name erroneously in the book, presumably to keep his oaths. |
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uranus |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 13, 2008 - 04:45 PM
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| I was wondering if you could provide the direction for someone to learn more about the GBG/CC outside of Culling's book. They are an interesting development of the Thelemic movement, while not as out and out fascinating as the FS, I have always been kind of intrigued by them. I've read Culling's book on the subject but found myself not satisfied that it was the whole contraption or even an adequate presentation of the topic. |
_________________
In case you can't figure it out, my comments are based on my experiences or learned from various teachers either right or wrong. I am not to be taken as an authority, if you assume such, that is you, not me.
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Patriarch156 |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 13, 2008 - 05:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 03, 2005
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uranus wrote: › I was wondering if you could provide the direction for someone to learn more about the GBG/CC outside of Culling's book. They are an interesting development of the Thelemic movement, while not as out and out fascinating as the FS, I have always been kind of intrigued by them. I've read Culling's book on the subject but found myself not satisfied that it was the whole contraption or even an adequate presentation of the topic.
You can always ask for access to the bapho.net archives as they have several of his writings scanned. You can also find excerpts from his writings here: http://cfrussell.homestead.com/
Other than that Martin P. Starr gives a fair overview in his wonderfull study The Unknown God, and a lot of their instructions are housed at the Warburg. |
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uranus |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 14, 2008 - 01:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 12, 2005
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| Thanks for the information Patriarch, much appreciated... I'm headed to Bapho.net right now. |
_________________
In case you can't figure it out, my comments are based on my experiences or learned from various teachers either right or wrong. I am not to be taken as an authority, if you assume such, that is you, not me.
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Patriarch156 |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 14, 2008 - 02:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 03, 2005
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uranus wrote: › Thanks for the information Patriarch, much appreciated... I'm headed to Bapho.net right now.
You should also check out the other site, going over it I see they now offer CFR's autobiography and a host of other things as well. Not sure if it is up your alley though, on the face of it I would guess not, but one never knows until one has checked it out. |
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uranus |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 14, 2008 - 07:15 PM
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Joined: Oct 12, 2005
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| That is true Patriarch, it is more a curiousity of Thelemic history than an interest in Russel's work per se but it is always interesting to see where someone's work took them and possibly find inspiration in the work itself, even if it goes in another totally different direction. |
_________________
In case you can't figure it out, my comments are based on my experiences or learned from various teachers either right or wrong. I am not to be taken as an authority, if you assume such, that is you, not me.
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bubbafett4hire |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 15, 2008 - 05:36 AM
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Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 17
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| On the topic of C.F Russell asking for a quick clarification, Crowley's poem "The Wizard Way" I remember hearing was dedicated to Russell and I'm assuming was written after Russell left Crowley it's contents. If i am wrong in this assumption please correct me so i have my facts straight. |
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thiebes |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: C.F. Russel(l)
Posted: Oct 15, 2008 - 07:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 17, 2004
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Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
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