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Horemakhet |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 01:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 05, 2003
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Location: Montreal,Quebec
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| I also enjoyed the playoff between Ianrons & Puck. Intellectualy stimulating. I have often thought that it would be a wonderful addition if, when the argument becomes heated, the interested parties could carry over into a Chess match. Just a wish of mine. Always wanted to play chess here. . . |
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alrah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 11:13 AM
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Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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thePuck wrote: › alrah wrote: › How would you pursue anything "real" like playing an instrument?
Well - when it comes to magick, 'you'aren't playing anything. But if you'd like some practical inspiration about how to learn then I suggest you listen to this bloke:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kwjDLHX92w
...and when you're done - put your hat back on hatstand with the rest of the magick formula's you've imbibed from the occult community over the last few years.
Love under Will.
93,
So you're saying we should all be autistic savants? Clever! You really showed me up!
Tell you what: I'll keep using the methods that actually worked for anyone, ever. You keep reinventing the wheel while others are flying jets. We can compare notes later.
93, 93/93
I'm a bit dissapointed that I need to spell out the point I was trying to make to you with the example of Derek Paravicini. I had hoped you would grasp it intuitively.
Derek had to practise like every other musician, but he's using learning skills that are innate to every human being, rather than rely on artificial forms of learning taught at school. Without the former innate ability to learn naturally then formal learning techniques are pretty useless. You can send a person with no ear to music lessons until they turn grey, and perhaps you'll end up with a person who can play by rote in a mechanical manner, but they won't be musicians.
Even scientists with thier projects to some extent 'groove' with it before they get into hard and heavy scientific method. See Pirsig for more details on that!  |
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Form is the mind's abacus - Dar es Alrah.
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alrah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 11:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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ianrons wrote: › tai wrote: › Now if Crowley did not leave a record behind, we would not be able to assess his achievements in this manner.
And it would be a tragic loss to humanity if we couldn't discuss Crowley's sperm count like adults 
Lol. I wonder if Crowley was about these days he would bother with a diary. I rather think he would be a blogger.
You mentioned earlier in the thread the indirect accusation of laziness, and I'm rather interested in this theme. What can seem like laziness (ie - the person who doesn't keep a diary may also never bother revising for exams) may look incredibly lazy to someone with the usual faulty memory, but to a person endowed with a good or excellent memory, these matters are entirely redundant or perhaps even antagonistic against his work and his nature.
Early schooling insists on this type of useless 'make work' for everyone (homework is 90% memory work), ignoring whether it's appropriate or not and I believe it can form some psychological barriers and blocks for people, causing repressed resentment and (ironically) learning difficulties.
And then there are people who may think primarily in visual terms - to whom narrative is somewhat like a second language. For these people, in respect of thier own learning styles and systems, it maybe far more useful for them to keep a visual record.
In short - I completely agree with you that this matter needs a more nuanced appreciation, but I completely disagree with you that ThePuck displays any signs of autistic thinking. That's rather a shame really.
Love under Will,
Alrah. (with aspergers syndrome). |
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Form is the mind's abacus - Dar es Alrah.
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 03:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 02, 2004
Posts: 1175
Location: U.K.
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alrah wrote: › I wonder if Crowley was about these days he would bother with a diary. I rather think he would be a blogger.
I rather think his diaries were always, like little Cecily's diary, "a young [beast]’s record of [his] own thoughts and impressions, and consequently meant for publication."
alrah wrote: › Early schooling insists on this type of useless 'make work' for everyone
In AC's case, I think what we see with the A.'.A.'. syllabus is that a lot of work is required without it ever being justified in terms of the HGA retirement, of which Abraham the Jew states "no great skill, effort or intelligence are necessary" (Dehn edn., Prologue to Book Three; omitted in the Mathers edn.). I can't help but think that AC simply thought of all the most difficult practices he could, assigned them to the paths on the Tree of Life and threw them at his students as an impressive-seeming (and unnecessary) mountain to climb, without ever requiring the same of himself. In effect, this has done more to create a false barrier to attainment than it has helped anyone (so far as I can see).
Liber E is a good example: "Test your endurance with various gymnastic exercises, club swinging, and so on." Anyone who seriously believes this isn't just a waste of time is going to have to spend a lot of time finding that out. This is not to say that some of the practices aren't useful; however, what we see in reality is a hotch-potch of badly thought-out or inaccurate exercises, based frequently on Crowley's assumptions or embellishments, for example memorization of 777, which AC clearly did not so much write from memory ("Egyptian names of Asc. Decans", anyone?) as compile from the obvious reference books with many on-the-spot placements based on superficial knowledge. The image of Cyril Grey spending an hour each evening with Rosenroth – after saving his girlfriend from the clutches of the Black Lodge – is utter fantasy, and I believe Gershom Scholem has the last word on Perdurabo, saying that he "had an infinitesimal knowledge of Kabbalah that did not prevent [him] from drawing freely on [his] imagination instead".
Other useless parts of Liber E are the instructions on asana, which as far as I can tell, having spent many, many hours practicing (and having surveyed other opinions on this) are complete tosh. The pain which he describes was probably, in his case, simply muscle ache which he wouldn't have got if he were more flexible; and I am not aware of anyone having been able to replicate the "automatic rigidity", ten minutes of which is as restorative to the body as a night's sleep. What this means is that people (like myself) will waste a long time trying to achieve something that is, in fact, unattainable; and this, when they could be doing something much more useful.
However, articles like Liber E (and, e.g., the extraordinarily difficult exercises like Libri Had and Nu) encouraged people to believe in AC's magistry, and in the reputation of A.'.A.'. This is "cashed in" in the final part of Liber E (and frequently elsewhere), where readers are earnestly advised to purchase a number of AC's books and to "seek out and attach himself to, a master, one competent to correct him and advise him. Nor should he be discouraged by the difficulty of finding such a person." (Hint: It's Crowley.)
Crowley's glamour was intense: the Holy Books are absolutely superb, but sadly the more I find out about Crowley, the more inclined I am to think that the Holy Books were simply religious propaganda pieces, that his actions were politically motivated and that his religious instructions were recycled from other sources dishonestly and without thought. For instance, he claimed to have examined the "Enochian record" in its original form in Oxford, despite it being in London and despite showing no knowledge of it. I realise now that the worst criticisms I have of people like Kenneth Grant or David Rankine are equally if not much more forcefully applicable to Crowley, the Wizard of Oz, whose lies and deceptions are frequently written about but assumed by his followers (including until recently myself) not to extend to his accounts of his magickal practices. I don't think he invented his experiences ex nihilo – in fact I think he probably believed his own hype – but he allowed himself to exaggerate greatly, and this has created the sort of reflexive thinking which puts any deviation from the practices he set down as based on some kind of degeneracy or moral turpitude. |
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 03:46 PM
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Location: U.K.
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alrah wrote: › I wonder if Crowley was about these days he would bother with a diary. I rather think he would be a blogger.
I rather think his diaries were always, like little Cecily's diary, "simply a young man’s record of his own thoughts and impressions, and consequently meant for publication."
alrah wrote: › Early schooling insists on this type of useless 'make work' for everyone
In AC's case, I think what we see with the A.'.A.'. syllabus is that a lot of work is required without it ever being justified in terms of the HGA retirement, of which Abraham the Jew states "no great skill, effort or intelligence are necessary" (Dehn edn., Prologue to Book Three; omitted in the Mathers edn.). I can't help but think that AC simply thought of all the most difficult practices he could, assigned them to the paths on the Tree of Life and threw them at his students as an impressive-seeming (and unnecessary) mountain to climb, without ever requiring the same of himself. In effect, this has done more to create a false barrier to attainment than it has helped anyone (so far as I can see).
Liber E is a good example: "Test your endurance with various gymnastic exercises, club swinging, and so on." Anyone who seriously believes this isn't just a waste of time is going to have to spend a lot of time finding that out. This is not to say that some of the practices aren't useful; however, what we see in reality is a hotch-potch of badly thought-out or inaccurate exercises, based frequently on Crowley's assumptions or embellishments, for example memorization of 777, which AC clearly did not so much write from memory ("Egyptian names of Asc. Decans", anyone?) as compile from the obvious reference books with many on-the-spot placements based on superficial knowledge. The image of Cyril Grey spending an hour each evening with Rosenroth – after saving his girlfriend from the clutches of the Black Lodge – is utter fantasy, and I believe Gershom Scholem has the last word on Perdurabo, saying that he "had an infinitesimal knowledge of Kabbalah that did not prevent [him] from drawing freely on [his] imagination instead".
Other useless parts of Liber E are the instructions on asana, which as far as I can tell, having spent many, many hours practicing (and having surveyed other opinions on this) are complete tosh. The pain which he describes was probably, in his case, simply muscle ache which he wouldn't have got if he were more flexible; and I am not aware of anyone having been able to replicate the "automatic rigidity", ten minutes of which is as restorative to the body as a night's sleep. What this means is that people (like myself) will waste a long time trying to achieve something that is, in fact, unattainable; and this, when they could be doing something much more useful.
However, articles like Liber E (and, e.g., the extraordinarily difficult exercises like Libri Had and Nu, or Liber HHH) encouraged people to believe in AC's magistry and in the reputation of A.'.A.'. precisely because of the exaggerated difficulty of the practices. This is "cashed in" in the final part of Liber E (and frequently elsewhere), where readers are earnestly advised to purchase a number of AC's books and to "seek out and attach himself to, a master, one competent to correct him and advise him. Nor should he be discouraged by the difficulty of finding such a person." (Hint: It's Crowley.)
Crowley's glamour was intense: the Holy Books are absolutely superb, but sadly these days I'm inclined to think that the Holy Books were simply religious propaganda pieces, that his actions were largely motivated by his own ego and that his religious instructions were recycled from other sources dishonestly and without thought. For instance, he claimed to have examined the "Enochian record" in its original form in Oxford, despite it being in London and despite showing no knowledge of it... yet on this, as on any other subject, he always talks about himself as though he were the perfect master, setting the syllabus for others. He reminds me these days of one of the useless teachers described by Abraham the Jew, not of an Abramelin character.
So, coming back to an earlier point, I think it's a shame when criticism of the A.'.A.'. syllabus is equated with laziness, and IMO this is just a way to rationalise dissenting views. After all, chipping away at the Class 'B' publications is pretty close to questioning the A.'.A.'. itself; but the A.'.A.'. is only Crowley. |
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kidneyhawk |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 04:35 PM
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Quote: ›
He reminds me these days of one of the useless teachers described by Abraham the Jew, not of an Abramelin character.
Sounds like the unmasking of the "Demon Crowley!"  |
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 04:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 23, 2004
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Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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alrah wrote: ›
Derek had to practise like every other musician, but he's using learning skills that are innate to every human being, rather than rely on artificial forms of learning taught at school. Without the former innate ability to learn naturally then formal learning techniques are pretty useless. You can send a person with no ear to music lessons until they turn grey, and perhaps you'll end up with a person who can play by rote in a mechanical manner, but they won't be musicians.
I've always suspected that this a legitimate point, and a rather Thelemic one, as well. One wonders whether children ought to forced to learn music in school, even though they show no aptitude for or interest in it at all. The same is true of a number of other arts and sciences, the basics required to function in the world excepted. I suppose that exposure to a variety of stimuli is right but, in the absence of any positive response, is a waste of resources and is bound to stifle the child's actual Will, whatever that happens to be. What do you think, Alrah? |
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 05:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 23, 2004
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Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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ianrons wrote: › Other useless parts of Liber E are the instructions on asana, which as far as I can tell, having spent many, many hours practicing (and having surveyed other opinions on this) are complete tosh. The pain which he describes was probably, in his case, simply muscle ache which he wouldn't have got if he were more flexible; and I am not aware of anyone having been able to replicate the "automatic rigidity", ten minutes of which is as restorative to the body as a night's sleep. What this means is that people (like myself) will waste a long time trying to achieve something that is, in fact, unattainable; and this, when they could be doing something much more useful.
Interesting, Ian. Personally, what I recall (it was a long time ago now) coming away from these instructions with was that I should identify an Asana wherein I could remain upright and motionless for a prolonged period of time and then proceed to combining Pranayama with this and then move into combining the mental parts of the process. I suppose that I was just too stupid to become distracted by the rest, but the results were very impressive before very long at all. |
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alrah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 05:29 PM
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I agree with a lot of your points Ian.
It looks more like a teacher training course at times, rather than something that is specifically geared and taylor made towards the individual student. I'm sure this needs to come into the curriculum somewhere at the end, but only for those who have the will and the ability to teach. Otherwise it just results in a socialism of education that is more exoteric in it's outward form that esoteric. |
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Form is the mind's abacus - Dar es Alrah.
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 05:39 PM
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Camlion wrote: › Interesting, Ian. Personally, what I recall (it was a long time ago now) coming away from these instructions with was that I should identify an Asana wherein I could remain upright and motionless for a prolonged period of time and then proceed to combining Pranayama with this and then move into combining the mental parts of the process. I suppose that I was just too stupid to become distracted by the rest, but the results were very impressive before very long at all.
Are you talking about asana, or about pranayama & dharana, in the last sentence here? |
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alrah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 05:50 PM
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| I'm all for student directed learning Camlion. It's a teachers job to learn about the student so that they can facillitate the childs innate learning styles. Exposure to stimulie is good, - even when there's no positive immediate response, it is something that the child may choose to revisit at a later date and explore more thoroughly through some impulse of his own will, (or not) however the case may be. Having respect for a childs learning styles means having respect for when he thinks it is the right time to pursue something, and results in a deeper and more detailed appreciation of the subject matter being studied. |
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Form is the mind's abacus - Dar es Alrah.
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 05:52 PM
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ianrons wrote: › Camlion wrote: › Interesting, Ian. Personally, what I recall (it was a long time ago now) coming away from these instructions with was that I should identify an Asana wherein I could remain upright and motionless for a prolonged period of time and then proceed to combining Pranayama with this and then move into combining the mental parts of the process. I suppose that I was just too stupid to become distracted by the rest, but the results were very impressive before very long at all.
Are you talking about asana, or about pranayama & dharana, in the last sentence here?
I combined them in that sequence, yes, Asana, Pranayama and then Dharana, as simply and effectively as possible, assimilating them into a single practice as soon as possible. I would certainly say from my experience that each is dependent upon the others to be effective. Did your experience differ? |
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 05:56 PM
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Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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alrah wrote: › I'm all for student directed learning Camlion. It's a teachers job to learn about the student so that they can facillitate the childs innate learning styles. Exposure to stimulie is good, - even when there's no positive immediate response, it is something that the child may choose to revisit at a later date and explore more thoroughly through some impulse of his own will, (or not) however the case may be. Having respect for a childs learning styles means having respect for when he thinks it is the right time to pursue something, and results in a deeper and more detailed appreciation of the subject matter being studied.
I agree, Alrah, and this very interesting because many of the more liberal minded among us would conclude that what we are suggesting is to "deny equal opportunity to all." |
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MichaelStaley |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 06:06 PM
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ianrons wrote: › Other useless parts of Liber E are the instructions on asana, which as far as I can tell, having spent many, many hours practicing (and having surveyed other opinions on this) are complete tosh. The pain which he describes was probably, in his case, simply muscle ache which he wouldn't have got if he were more flexible; and I am not aware of anyone having been able to replicate the "automatic rigidity", ten minutes of which is as restorative to the body as a night's sleep. What this means is that people (like myself) will waste a long time trying to achieve something that is, in fact, unattainable; and this, when they could be doing something much more useful.
I have never regarded Crowey's various instructions as some step-by-step guide that must be adhered to at pain of death, but as a framework. Over the years I have undertaken workings based on, for instance, Libers E, O, Astarte, section SSS of HHH, A'ash, Reguli, and Samekh, and have always developed my own variations based on experimentation. I've never been particularly interested in maintaining a given posture for an hour whilst balancing a saucer on my head. Similarly, I soon discovered by trial and error that pranayama is best performed with flexibility.
I do not regard Crowley as a charlatan because, for instance, his soundbite of "the method of science, the aim of religion" did not live up to the hype, or because he lied about this, that or the other. Across decades Crowley developed a diverse body of work which is inspiring, and which doesn't need to be swallowed wholesale. He had personal failings - who doesn't? - he treated people ruthlessly; he told lies - perhaps never did see the original Dee material when he said he did. Then again, I've never seen Crowley as a saint or prophet.
Best wishes,
Michael. |
_________________
"It's all in the egg".
Last edited by MichaelStaley on Feb 03, 2010 - 06:56 PM; edited 1 time in total
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alrah |
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Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 06:15 PM
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 06:22 PM
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Camlion wrote: › I combined them in that sequence, yes, Asana, Pranayama and then Dharana, as simply and effectively as possible, assimilating them into a single practice as soon as possible. I would certainly say from my experience that each is dependent upon the others to be effective. Did your experience differ?
My experience differs in that I worked extensively with pranayama when I was using the (normal) method of hatha yoga, as taught by everyone else but Crowley; it was only later that I tried Crowley's method. Pranayama works absolutely fine with relaxed muscles.
With Crowley's asana, the only effect I noticed was that as I was developing it, for some reason -- I believe due to the tension in one's body -- I would react to stimuli (like noise from the plumbing, or a car horn outside) a couple of seconds *before* I heard it, which isn't something useful and much less interesting than the effects from pranayama. |
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 06:40 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: › I have never regarded Crowey's various instructions as some step-by-step guide that must be adhered to at pain of death, but as a framework.
Yes, neither have I; but it seems pretty clear that the syllabus (as based on the G.D. grades) is structured so as to be done in sequence.
MichaelStaley wrote: › I do not regard Crowley as a charlatan because, for instance, his soundbite of "the method of science, the aim of religion" did not live up to the hype, or because he lied about this, that or the other. Across decades Crowley developed a diverse body of work which is inspiring, and which doesn't need to be swallowed wholesale. He had personal failings - who doesn't? - he treated people ruthlessly; he told lies - perhaps never did see the original Dee material when he said he did. Then again, I've never seen Crowley as a saint or prophet.
He will always be a highly interesting and intriguing character, and his works serve as a good compilation of magickal practice and (oddly) cultural views at the end of the 19th century. As to whether or not he was a charlatan, I don't think he was, in the sense that he didn't (actually) misrepresent himself, generally speaking... |
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 06:42 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: › I have never regarded Crowey's various instructions as some step-by-step guide that must be adhered to at pain of death, but as a framework.
Yes, in fact, the person who introduced this material to me when I was but seventeen years old advised to the effect that I should do "what seemth right to me," as Crowley put it, and record the results. It is logical that as long as the essential elements are accounted for, one has to rely a bit more upon one's own "ingenium" (another Crowley pointer) and a bit less upon the recipe as written. I believe that it is in keeping with the spirit of Crowley's teachings, certainly, not to always blindly follow the letter of them. |
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MichaelStaley |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 06:55 PM
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ianrons wrote: › My experience differs in that I worked extensively with pranayama when I was using the (normal) method of hatha yoga, as taught by everyone else but Crowley; it was only later that I tried Crowley's method. Pranayama works absolutely fine with relaxed muscles.
I too found pranayama a very different kettle of fish when practised after thirty minutes or so of hatha yoga. I also measured the rhythms of pranayama with my heartbeat rather than the second-hand of a watch, which was a lot better.
Best wishes,
Michael. |
_________________
"It's all in the egg".
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 07:04 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: › ianrons wrote: › My experience differs in that I worked extensively with pranayama when I was using the (normal) method of hatha yoga, as taught by everyone else but Crowley; it was only later that I tried Crowley's method. Pranayama works absolutely fine with relaxed muscles.
I too found pranayama a very different kettle of fish when practised after thirty minutes or so of hatha yoga. I also measured the rhythms of pranayama with my heartbeat rather than the second-hand of a watch, which was a lot better.
Best wishes,
Michael.
And when engaged in Dharana, Ian and Michael, what becomes of your Pranayama? |
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 07:04 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: › I also measured the rhythms of pranayama with my heartbeat rather than the second-hand of a watch, which was a lot better.
I used to use mantras to dictate rhythm, but eventually dropped that in favour of a stopwatch. Recently I wrote a bit of software to give me audio cues for pranayama, which frees the mind to concentrate a lot more, and is I think a better solution, though I haven't used it extensively.
Pranayama is such a simple and excellent practice that I would say it should be compulsory in schools if I weren't a libertarian. |
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MichaelStaley |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 07:24 PM
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Camlion wrote: › And when engaged in Dharana, Ian and Michael, what becomes of your Pranayama?
I never used to follow pranayama with dharana, so can't answer that I'm afraid.
Best wishes,
Michael. |
_________________
"It's all in the egg".
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 07:34 PM
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Camlion wrote: › And when engaged in Dharana, Ian and Michael, what becomes of your Pranayama?
I'm not sure I understand this question. Could you please elaborate? I mean really specifically... |
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 07:48 PM
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Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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ianrons wrote: › Camlion wrote: › And when engaged in Dharana, Ian and Michael, what becomes of your Pranayama?
I'm not sure I understand this question. Could you please elaborate? I mean really specifically...
You and Michael were discussing ways of consciously measuring your breathing during Pranayama. I asked how you monitor your breathing while engaged in Dharana. |
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alrah |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 07:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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Camlion wrote: ›
And when engaged in Dharana, Ian and Michael, what becomes of your Pranayama?
If it's the same as dhyana then that's really very funny! |
_________________
Form is the mind's abacus - Dar es Alrah.
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 07:59 PM
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And while you’re pondering your answer to Camlion please provide sources or examples to back up the following claim:
ianrons wrote: › the Holy Books are absolutely superb, but sadly these days I'm inclined to think that the Holy Books were simply religious propaganda pieces, that his actions were largely motivated by his own ego and that his religious instructions were recycled from other sources dishonestly and without thought.
Thanks. |
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 08:02 PM
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MichaelStaley wrote: › Camlion wrote: › And when engaged in Dharana, Ian and Michael, what becomes of your Pranayama?
I never used to follow pranayama with dharana, so can't answer that I'm afraid.
Best wishes,
Michael.
I'm sure that individual practices do vary so much that we are unlikely to be comparing apples with apples much of the time. |
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 08:08 PM
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Camlion wrote: › You and Michael were discussing ways of consciously measuring your breathing during Pranayama. I asked how you monitor your breathing while engaged in Dharana.
After practicing pranayama for a while, I came to the conclusion that the practice was (really) just intended to exercise the diaphragm and other muscles (the "threefold breath" of which AC was unaware) so as to make breathing easier during concentration (although it leads on its own to important results). The effect of it is that, through exercising the breathing musculature and (I suppose) removing muscle tension, one's awareness of breath simply decreases a great deal. At least, this is the effect I have observed, though I have always regarded the immediate effects of pranayama as more important than these "secondary" considerations. |
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Camlion |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 08:19 PM
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ianrons wrote: › Camlion wrote: › You and Michael were discussing ways of consciously measuring your breathing during Pranayama. I asked how you monitor your breathing while engaged in Dharana.
After practicing pranayama for a while, I came to the conclusion that the practice was (really) just intended to exercise the diaphragm and other muscles (the "threefold breath" of which AC was unaware) so as to make breathing easier during concentration (although it leads on its own to important results). The effect of it is that, through exercising the breathing musculature and (I suppose) removing muscle tension, one's awareness of breath simply decreases. At least, this is the effect I have observed, though I have always regarded the immediate effects of pranayama as more important than these "secondary" considerations.
I see. My own emphasis was the opposite. I wanted the Asana and Pranayama to be 'trained' to the point where they could look after themselves, remaining steady and regularized, respectively, so that I could focus the mind and they would aid in that effort, hopefully, or at least not distract from it. |
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ianrons |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 03, 2010 - 08:37 PM
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tai wrote: › And while you’re pondering your answer to Camlion please provide sources or examples to back up the following claim:
ianrons wrote: › the Holy Books are absolutely superb, but sadly these days I'm inclined to think that the Holy Books were simply religious propaganda pieces, that his actions were largely motivated by his own ego and that his religious instructions were recycled from other sources dishonestly and without thought.
Thanks.
Well, how about this instruction (by an Exempt Adept no less!):
"The fourth position: (The Thunderbolt). Sit; left heel pressing up anus, right foot poised on its toes, the heel covering the phallus; arms stretched out over the knees; head and back straight." (Liber E, Cap. III v.6)
(see also http://hermetic.com/crowley/equinox/i/i/images/101_029.jpg)
then compare with this (the original):
"Press firmly the heel of the left foot against the perineum, and the right heel above the male organ." (Hathayoga Pradipika, v.37)
Obviously Crowley was *mistaken*, in a way that Woodroffe was *not* (at least in the Dover edition). Crowley was a tourist, yet he had the nerve to take photographs of himself illustrating this position!
Secondly, how about the Enochian "system", as I previously mentioned in this context? He repeated what he had learned from Mathers (after Westcott, apparently with some corrections by Mathers) without any serious attempt to get to the bottom of it (despite dishonestly claiming otherwise, as already noted). He even went as far as to invent new "Angelic" words (in the Goetia)...
I suppose I might as well offer up the G.D. ritual corpus as a third example, though obviously Crowley did make some (very minor) contributions to that corpus later on. |
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