| From the Galleries |
2182 pictures in 33 albums
Members' Creations
.jpg)
Su Asti
Last Updated Picture:
ΆÏποκÏάτης
|
|
| Statistics |
Site visits since 30 September 2003:
38,003,479
Yesterday's visits:
20,791
Registrations:
Today: 3
Yesterday: 2
Overall: 7531
Newest Members:
|
|
| Donations |
Membership is and always will be free but donations are of course welcome.
Use the Subscribe button to set up a regular, monthly £5 donation that demonstrates your ongoing commitment or click on the Donate button for a one-off contribution towards the site's hosting and development costs.
All contributions are very gratefully received!
|
|
| Random Quote |
|
Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp / Or what's a heaven for?
-- Robert Browning
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
staria718 |
|
Post subject: Where Are They Now?
 Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 12:06 PM
|
|
Joined: Jan 03, 2009
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
|
|
93!
Does anyone know what the book is that is shown in the famous photograph of A.C. from the Equinox titled “The Student”? Also is the whereabouts of this book known? Also I am very curious as to where A.C.’s personal Stele of Revealing may be. I would greatly appreciate any help.
93 93/93
Anna Russo |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
|
Grutas |
|
|
Post subject: RE: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 03:02 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Posts: 17
Status: Offline
|
|
Anna/staria718,
93
From Equinox I:III:
"...evidently Crowley's magical diary. This book is bound in what looks like red Moroccan leather, chased in gold and embossed (conjectured from surviving diaries of Crowley's)
The spine of the book has "PERDURABOMAGISTER" vertically on it.
The "P" has Alpha and Omega to either side, and the last "R" has "2" to the left and "4" to the right."
93 93/93 |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject: RE: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 04:59 PM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3483
Status: Offline
|
|
| You sure about that "Equinox I:III" reference, Grutas? |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Shiva |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 05:34 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 222
Location: The Wild, Wild West
Status: Offline
|
|
staria718 wrote: › 93! Does anyone know what the book is that is shown in the famous photograph of A.C. from the Equinox titled “The Student”? Also is the whereabouts of this book known? Also I am very curious as to where A.C.’s personal Stele of Revealing may be. I would greatly appreciate any help. 93 93/93 Anna Russo
The Book you mention is Crowley's Book of Abramelin Talismans. It was liberated from the dormant library of the defunct Agape Lodge by the infamous Solar Lodge, circa 1967. I have written extensively about this book and its contents in my little expose of the life and times of Solar Lodge, "Inside Solar Lodge - Outside the Law," which was published in Dec, 2007 and was out-of-print six months later. Copies are still available from eBay and Amazon, but at somewhat increased prices. Here is a brief quote from that book:
"I eventually got around to asking Frater Kuat if the book of Crowley’s Abramelin talismans was still with the few descendants of Capricornus’ last, small group.
He replied, “As far as I know!“
And that, as far as I know, is the only remaining item of monetary or magickal value from our once extensive cache, which probably is still in existence on this planet.
It would be useless to ask me anything more about its location, for I honestly do not know who is left or even the name of the city in which any of those people reside or last resided, nor do I (or Frater Kuat) know who might be in charge of any group that still remains. Or who might be in possession of this great Book of books.
But what I do know, with absolute certainty, are the details of the book, and these I am quite happy to share."
I then go on to describe the Book and its powerful contents in great detail.
If you're trying to track down A.C.'s stele - good luck. You should understand that A.C. stated in The Confessions that someone had stolen his stele. Also it remains unclear whether he had a copy or had gotten his hands on the original. Liber AL seems to imply that he should snitch it
Chapter 3 says:
"10. Get the stele of revealing itself; set it in thy secret temple -- and that temple is already aright disposed -- & it shall be your Kiblah for ever."
"11. ... I will make easy to you the abstruction from the ill-ordered house in the Victorious City..."
Note: abstruction = "to take away." Ill-ordered house = The Cairo Museum is known to be rather messy and disorganized. The Victorious City = El Kahira [sic] = "Cairo."
Happy Hunting, Frater Shiva |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
gmugmble |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 07:48 PM
|
|
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 26
Location: Everett, WA, USA
Status: Offline
|
|
Shiva wrote: › abstruction = "to take away."
"Abstruction" is a made up word; there is no record of its use prior to Liber Legis. (The Oxford English Dictionary gives "abstruct" as an alternative spelling of "obstruct", but with no citation.) Therefore, you can't say definitively that it means "take away". The root "struct" is from a Latin verb vor "build", so "copy" seems a more likely meaning of "abstruct" than "steal".
Anyway, Crowley never possessed the original stele, which is still in the museum. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Sphynx |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 08:29 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 22, 2008
Posts: 105
Location: Giza Plateau
Status: Offline
|
|
gmugmble wrote: › Shiva wrote: › abstruction = "to take away." "Abstruction" is a made up word; there is no record of its use prior to Liber Legis. (The Oxford English Dictionary gives "abstruct" as an alternative spelling of "obstruct", but with no citation.) Therefore, you can't say definitively that it means "take away". The root "struct" is from a Latin verb vor "build", so "copy" seems a more likely meaning of "abstruct" than "steal". Anyway, Crowley never possessed the original stele, which is still in the museum.
ab (Greek) = "away from." Sounds like "removal" to me. But you can certainly be the final authority on this. Personally, I think Perdurabo had a copy of the stele made, then arranged for the copy to stay in the museum. After all, Liber AL says, "Get the stele of revealing itself."
"Anyway, Crowley never possessed the original stele, which is still in the museum." Oh? You were there at the time? This is a rather controversial subject, so I don't know if you get to be the final authority on this particular matter. I suppose a carbon-dating of the museum piece might shed some light on the issue.
Shiva |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
OKontrair |
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 09:09 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 18, 2004
Posts: 316
Status: Offline
|
|
Not all that controversial. Have a look in the galleries under Ankhenfons, page 1 and 2 for pictures of the Stele in 1872 and note areas of identical damage and brush marks etc. The Stele illustrated in the Equinox and Equinox of the Gods is rather coarse by comparison. Also in Remembering Aleister Crowley, Kenneth Grant, Skoob, 1991. p.54. Crowley’s Stele was on AC’s chest of drawers at Netherwood on Feb. 21st 1945 and was described as 'copy on wood'.
OK |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Grutas |
|
|
Post subject: Re: RE: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 18, 2009 - 09:42 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Posts: 17
Status: Offline
|
|
lashtal wrote: › You sure about that "Equinox I:III" reference, Grutas?
Oops, my mistake! The URL i posted refers to Bill Heidricks earlier commentaries on that pic/book. I will henceforth avoid combining myriads of open PDFs with sleep deprivation  |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Shiva |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 19, 2009 - 06:03 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 222
Location: The Wild, Wild West
Status: Offline
|
|
staria718 wrote: › ...Also I am very curious as to where A.C.’s personal Stele of Revealing may be. I would greatly appreciate any help. Anna Russo
Let me start this post by asking everyone to ignore my idle speculations about whether AC had the original antiquity or a copy of the stele.
Then let us assume that AC somehow reclaimed his "stolen" stele or had another copy made. The stele was "stolen" from his pack while Crowley was on one of his expeditions. This event was reported by him in The Confessions or in one of his diaries. Perhaps someone can remember where or when - I certainly can't.
And let us accept the Grant remembrance that "Crowley’s Stele was on AC’s chest of drawers at Netherwood on Feb. 21st 1945 and was described as 'copy on wood'."
And let us simply return to the original question: "…as to where A.C.’s personal Stele of Revealing may be," and take a look at some FACTS:
(1) Solar Lodge had a stele that was liberated from the Germer collection. The Germer collection was mainly Crowley's collection that was forwarded to him (Germer) by Gerald Yorke after AC's death.
Now this stele was painted on wood. It was about 12-14" wide, about 18-24" high, and about 1" thick. It had an identifying mark - There was a lighter "patch" of paint in front of Ankh-f-n-Khonsu.
I have seen this described as a "white patch" or "white spot" somewhere here on the forums, but the Lashtal search engine doesn't seem to help me to find the quote. In any case, this "patch" is mentioned as being seen in "some" pictures/reproductions in "some" Crowley book(s), but it (the "patch") is missing in other pictures/reproductions.
This "white patch" is not white. It is a light-yellow that was obviously used to patch-up or repair a portion of the slightly-darker-yellow background of the stele scene.
I assume this was AC's stele as it came with other AC items, including some of Crowley's diaries and (of course) the Book of Abramelin Talismans [mentioned above].
But then it could simply have been somebody else's painted wood stele from Agape Lodge, although I doubt it - but one never knows. One thing for sure: This stele possessed a very strong magickal energy. Many people sat for hours, sometimes under the influence of "wine and [or] strange drugs," as they attempted to perceive the wonders of the icon.
(2) This stele was kept in the Solar Lodge Temple in Los Angeles, and therefore (as far as I know) it survived the firestorm at Solar Ranch that destroyed virtually all of the other Crowley material.
After the firestorm, and after our cops-and-robbers episodes with the local Keystone cops and the FBI (during which we escaped to Mexico), almost everything that survived was put up for sale at one of the biggest occult garage sales in modern times.
Lo and behold, just as the sale was getting under way (at both the burned-out Solar Ranch and The Eye of Horus bookstore in Blythe), along came Grady McMurtry - conducting his investigation into Solar Lodge. He purchased a stele at this fantastic flea market, and a photo of him holding this stele along with a copy of Liber Al that he bought appears in my book "Inside Solar Lodge - Outside the Law," mentioned above (this photo, and others, were provided courtesy of the OTO from its archives). Grady thought he had fulfilled something major and quoted from Liber AL, Chapter 3: "21. Set up my image in the East: thou shalt buy thee an image which I will show thee, especial, not unlike the one thou knowest. And it shall be suddenly easy for thee to do this."
Now the question is: Was this the same painted wood stele that I have described above? Or was it one of many copies? The photo in my book is not clear enough to see whether the identifying "light patch" is present, and it must be remembered that Solar Lodge photographed a stele (in one of the books I believe) and printed full size [the size of the painted wood version] reproductions (in sepia tone), one of which was given to every one of the 75 [or so] members. Each member was expected to glue their (front and back) photos to a pre-cut, 1" board, and then to fill in the appropriate colors with paint or colored pencils. In addition, some artistic members (maybe only one or two) decided to paint their own stele directly on wood without benefit of the photographs. So you can see why I ask: "Was this the same painted wood stele that I have described above?"
This exciting episode has been described in greater detail in my book, mentioned above, and also in Jerry Cornelius's Red Flame No.13 - IN THE NAME OF THE BEAST - Vol. Two: 1962-1985, A biography of Grady Louis McMurtry, Dec. 2005.
(3) So if Grady bought the stele, then he would have (probably) have set it up [in the east] in a temple somewhere. And if it was the original (supposedly) Crowley stele, then anyone who saw it would certainly have noticed the "light patch" that was rather visible and sensitive to a "texture-change" if one ran their finger across the patch. And if it really was that stele, then (presumably) it is now in the possession of OTO - but one never knows - Things disappear and reappear in mysterious manners and in unusual places.
If Grady had this stele in a temple, then perhaps Jerry Cornelius might have seen it, because he was a close associate of Grady. I will send him a copy of this post.
Jerry - Did you ever see Grady's stele that he bought at the Solar Lodge firesale? And if so, was it painted directly on wood, and did it have a light yellow paint repair patch in front of Mr. Khonsu?
Perhaps Jerry will respond on his Blogeria ( http://cornelius93.com/Blogeria.html ), or perhaps he will respond to my email when I send this to him (and I will post the result here), or perhaps he will respond directly here on the forum ( http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-3461.phtml ),or perhaps he will say nothing (which I doubt because he is one of the greatest of the Thelemic detectives).
Beyond these facts listed above, I have no further information on the subject. But there is enough information given to encourage Thelemic detectives everywhere in their search for Truth, Justice, and the Thelemic way. |
_________________
93.'.
I Am Shiva the destroyer
I destroy illusion
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy1/ ... a-monk.jpg
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
lashtal |
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 19, 2009 - 09:10 PM
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 3483
Status: Offline
|
|
Interesting.
Just a reminder that the original stele is not painted wood. It's painted stucco on wood. A significant difference, as will be seen when comparing modern reproductions with the original in the Museum at Cairo. |
_________________
Editor and Owner
LAShTAL.COM
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Shiva |
|
|
Post subject: Lost in Space?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 03:51 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 222
Location: The Wild, Wild West
Status: Offline
|
|
Jerry Cornelius was kind enough to respond to my question as to whether he had ever seen the Stele that Grady McMurtry bought at the Solar Lodge "firesale." Although he had not seen it, he does shed a little further light on the dispersal of Crowley memorabilia:
Shiva 93
No, I don't remember seeing it. Grady use to bring a smaller Stele with him when he traveled in the early years because some branches of the OTO, that he was traveling to back in 1977/78, did not have a copy of the Stele for the altar during initiations. It's been many years now but from what I remember, because I had held it, the Stele he traveled with was not painted but was decoupaged which is an art of decorating an object by gluing colored paper cutouts onto it. It had a color rendition of the stele glued upon it. Sorry, I wish that I could be of more help ... but by the time I moved to California in 1989 Grady's possessions and even part of the OTO had already suffered another major theft; this time shortly after his death and at the hands of its own local membership who stole everything they could on the pretenses of keeping it from Bill Breeze. So much has now been lost. ... I did send Bill Heidrck a question about it, hopefully he has more info. ... I'll post what I find on my blog. [ http://cornelius93.com/Blogeria.html ]
Have a great day .... 93 93/93 Jerry |
_________________
93.'.
I Am Shiva the destroyer
I destroy illusion
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy1/ ... a-monk.jpg
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Iskandar |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 04:40 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
Posts: 384
Status: Offline
|
|
Shiva wrote: ›
Solar Lodge had a stele that was liberated from the Germer collection.
 |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Camlion |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 05:47 PM
|
|
Joined: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: Offline
|
|
Shiva wrote: › Lo and behold, just as the sale was getting under way (at both the burned-out Solar Ranch and The Eye of Horus bookstore in Blythe), along came Grady McMurtry - conducting his investigation into Solar Lodge. He purchased a stele at this fantastic flea market,
93 Shiva. Can you tell me the approximate date of the 'fire sale' ? |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Shiva |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 06:05 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 222
Location: The Wild, Wild West
Status: Offline
|
|
[quote="Iskandar"]Shiva wrote: ›
Solar Lodge had a stele that was liberated from the Germer collection.
"Rolling Eyes" seems to suggest that Iskandar wishes to take issue with the statement cited.
OK, let me quote from my correspondence with Cornelius93 last year:
"Now that I have established that some of us were spiritual heroes, I should also say that if we were to be labeled Brigands and Pirates, well, that would be downright accurate. There is a little-used term for the procedure: "Seizing the Lodge."
In world politics it's called "Coup d'etat." If you get away with it, you get to be King of the Hill. If it doesn't work, you get executed (or at least people tell bad stories about you)."
... Or post "Rolling Eyes." |
_________________
93.'.
I Am Shiva the destroyer
I destroy illusion
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy1/ ... a-monk.jpg
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Iskandar |
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 06:27 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
Posts: 384
Status: Offline
|
|
| Why not call a spade a spade? Even your book about the events, "Inside Solar Lodge, Outside the Law," makes it clear that the items from the Germer collection were stolen and Sascha Germer "medicated ... with the strongest stuff in [Frater Capricornus'] pharmaceutical arsenal: demerol, Seconal, Vistaril and Scopalomine. This is a standard, heavy-duty, sedative mixture ... used only for the most uncooperative patients and for major oral surgery procedures. ... And so it was that the books quietly made their way into the Solar Lodge library along with piles of other books that were bought, begged, borrowed and - it must be said - stolen from other sources. ... Other groups always felt that members of Solar Lodge plundered the library and it turns out that they were right" (pp. 156-7; emphasis added). |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Shiva |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 06:32 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 222
Location: The Wild, Wild West
Status: Offline
|
|
Camlion wrote: › Can you tell me the approximate date of the 'fire sale' ? Inside Solar Lodge - Outside the Law says:
"In 1970, not long after the dispersal of the remaining assets at Blythe had begun, a former Agape Lodge member and Crowley disciple named Grady McMurtry visited our previous addresses in Los Angeles as well as traveling to both Solar Ranch and The Eye of Horus in Blythe."
That doesn't help much for an "approximate date," does it? I imagine a better approximation could be found in Cornelius' Red Flame biography [cited above], as the details from the Caliph's point-of-view are more precise in that publication, but I don't have a copy.
It would have probably been before September, because in the Autumn of 1970, most of us moved from the "Pig Farm" in rural Baja California and took up residence in the "Ensenada Lodge," which was (of course) in the city of Ensenada. I distinctly remember Frater Vulcan coming to us at the Pig Farm, bearing a message from McMurtry, and that would have been after the fire sale and before we left for Ensenada.
If the date is important, I strongly suggest you consult a copy of Red Flame as it was extremely detailed in regard to this matter.
Perhaps some other readers have a copy of Red Flame No.13, Vol. Two: 1962-1985, A biography of Grady Louis McMurtry and would be willing to look it up for you. |
_________________
93.'.
I Am Shiva the destroyer
I destroy illusion
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy1/ ... a-monk.jpg
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
zardoz |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 06:50 PM
|
|
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 550
Location: Grass Valley, CA USA
Status: Offline
|
|
Shiva wrote: ›
If the date is important, I strongly suggest you consult a copy of Red Flame as it was extremely detailed in regard to this matter.
Perhaps some other readers have a copy of Red Flame No.13, Vol. Two: 1962-1985, A biography of Grady Louis McMurtry and would be willing to look it up for you.
I have a copy. The info on this sale is on p.49-50. Sept. 27th is the date given but the year is listed as 1969 which contradicts the Inside Solar Lodge quote above. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Shiva |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 07:00 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 222
Location: The Wild, Wild West
Status: Offline
|
|
Iskandar wrote: › Why not call a spade a spade?
OK. If you insist: You're a spade and a troublemaker, aren't you?
The word "liberated" is universally used as a term for a theft and everybody knows what it means.
I even gave you a quote where I admitted that we were Brigands and Pirates. Everybody knows what those people do. What else do you want?
Oh, I see. Perhaps you're one of those people mentioned in the Preface of Inside Solar Lodge...:
"Strange as it may seem, many authors, who were not there, have actually passed judgements about Solar Lodge, its motivations and its true place in history. To them I say: Aum. Ha!"
Iskandar wrote: › "medicated ... with the strongest stuff in [Frater Capricornus'] pharmaceutical arsenal: demerol, Seconal, Vistaril and Scopalomine. There was no "[Frater Capricornus]" - she was a Soror. The pharmaceutical arsenal belonged to Frater Shem, a licensed dentist who held a narcotics license, and the pharmaceuticals had nothing to do with Capricornus.
See? You are quoting and commenting about things of which you have no knowledge, and that's what others have done, and it has previously resulted in totally-inaccurate rumors, myths, and lies. That's the reason I wrote the book, and that's the reason I'm here on this forum: To state the facts and to help someone clear up some of the remaining mysteries.
Now if you don't like my choice of words that I use to express the Truth, then you can simply Aum. Ha!" |
_________________
93.'.
I Am Shiva the destroyer
I destroy illusion
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy1/ ... a-monk.jpg
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Iskandar |
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 07:21 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 14, 2005
Posts: 384
Status: Offline
|
|
Apologies for typo: yes, Frater Shem was meant not Capricornus. My mistake.
As for 'liberated' being universally used as a term for theft' that is debatable, because 'liberated' can mean more than one thing and 'theft' is not its universal meaning. English is not my first language but even aside from that, an impression that the term 'liberated' may imply could be that, for example, in this case, Germer library was 'liberated' from unlawful possession by Sascha. At least, that's how I understood the way you used the term.
What I don't understand is why do you seem to have an issue with the term 'theft' when you yourself admit it both in the book and in this thread? Similarly, you seem to be saying that the purpose of both your book and your presence on this forum is to tell the truth. The truth being, among other things, that the library is stolen, which you admit and which I also mention in my post. So, are you then saying that when I use the word theft, and when you use the word theft, there is a problem with my using that word because it is not true, and you want to present the truth, and the truth is that there was a theft?
In either case, the intention was not to stir a trouble: my perception was that the term 'liberated' was more ambiguous and sugar-coated then the term 'theft.' If my perception was incorrect and if for a native speaker of English the term 'liberated' used in every context mean 'stolen,' I do apologize. Otherwise, I'd stick to the suggestion to call a spade a spade. Aum. Ha! |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
zardoz |
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 07:25 PM
|
|
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 550
Location: Grass Valley, CA USA
Status: Offline
|
|
| "Liberated" in the context of theft implies theft that was justified. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Camlion |
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 07:46 PM
|
|
Joined: Apr 23, 2004
Posts: 1579
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: Offline
|
|
| Thank you Shiva and zardoz for the info on the date of Grady's shopping trip, although the year is now unclear. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Shiva |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 07:52 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 222
Location: The Wild, Wild West
Status: Offline
|
|
| [quote="zardoz"] Shiva wrote: › The info on this sale is on p.49-50. Sept. 27th is the date given but the year is listed as 1969 which contradicts the Inside Solar Lodge quote above. Aha! Let it be known that in the writing of the book, I constantly had date confusion and did my best to provide accurate information - even to the extent of consulting a borrowed copy of Red Flame. But these events were 38 to 43 years in the past. So now I probably need to make a correction, here, and in the book (which tentatively is scheduled for a second edition, revised, paperback sometime in the future).
September 27, 1969 is probably correct. Solar Ranch was invaded on July 26, 1969, so it makes sense that the firesale would be about 2 months later. After all, we "officers" were in Prescott, AZ around that time, and the Ranch and Bookstore would have been under the control of several "un-wanted" members and certainly in the process of liquidation and shutting-down. Also, my memory of the McMurtry tale is that he arrived just after we split (like within a month or two) - and thus he narrowly [more or less] missed being able to confront Capricornus directly. But, it was even closer in Ensenada when we got out of town just hours ahead of the Federales (who had been incited to capture us for "sacrificing babies" by the FBI). By the way, it turned out that McMurtry is the one that tipped off the FBI to our being in Mexico, and I only learned that by reading Red Flame in 2007.
Then, McMurtry would have sent his message for Capricornus by mail to Solar Lodge (Los Angeles) at some time after his visit - and that would have been during the "Pig Farm" residence days of 1970. Frater Sol [the sometimes moronic husband of Capricornus] responded to the McMurtry letter (using a Mexican return address), and shortly thereafter the FBI was alerted. We bailed out of Mexico early in 1971.
If there is a second edition of the book, I will see that the date(s) are examined and corrected. Thanks for pointing this out. |
_________________
93.'.
I Am Shiva the destroyer
I destroy illusion
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy1/ ... a-monk.jpg
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Shiva |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 08:04 PM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 222
Location: The Wild, Wild West
Status: Offline
|
|
zardoz wrote: › "Liberated" in the context of theft implies theft that was justified. You should read the large number of emails I have received regarding Inside Solar Lodge ...
Many people know exactly what we did and why we did it, and they congratulate us on our efforts in preserving the Thelemic thread during the darkest hours of its lineage.
If you wish to become morally righteous and indignant, then that is your choice. But remember: You were not there and are not in a position to make judgement.
I have only told the Tale as it happened. I never said that we were in the "right" or "justified." But other people have. I have simply avoided that, and will continue to do so.
This is a thread about where AC's Book and Stele are today. If a few people wish to make it a (gasp) moral indignation display, then the participation of one Brigand will simply cease. |
_________________
93.'.
I Am Shiva the destroyer
I destroy illusion
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy1/ ... a-monk.jpg
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 08:10 PM
|
|
Joined: Mar 17, 2009
Posts: 482
|
|
Iskandar wrote: › Why not call a spade a spade? Even your book about the events, "Inside Solar Lodge, Outside the Law," makes it clear that the items from the Germer collection were stolen and Sascha Germer "medicated ... with the strongest stuff in [Frater Capricornus'] pharmaceutical arsenal: demerol, Seconal, Vistaril and Scopalomine. This is a standard, heavy-duty, sedative mixture ... used only for the most uncooperative patients and for major oral surgery procedures. ... And so it was that the books quietly made their way into the Solar Lodge library along with piles of other books that were bought, begged, borrowed and - it must be said - stolen from other sources. ... Other groups always felt that members of Solar Lodge plundered the library and it turns out that they were right" (pp. 156-7; emphasis added).
This sounds rather sinister. Scopalomine is used in parts of the world as a truth serum for interrogations. Is it possible Sascha was secretly drugged to find out information on the OTO that Karl neglected to deal with before dying? The location of important documents etc? |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
zardoz |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 20, 2009 - 09:01 PM
|
|
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 550
Location: Grass Valley, CA USA
Status: Offline
|
|
Shiva wrote: › zardoz wrote: › "Liberated" in the context of theft implies theft that was justified. You should read the large number of emails I have received regarding Inside Solar Lodge ...
Many people know exactly what we did and why we did it, and they congratulate us on our efforts in preserving the Thelemic thread during the darkest hours of its lineage.
If you wish to become morally righteous and indignant, then that is your choice. But remember: You were not there and are not in a position to make judgement.
I have only told the Tale as it happened. I never said that we were in the "right" or "justified." But other people have. I have simply avoided that, and will continue to do so.
This is a thread about where AC's Book and Stele are today. If a few people wish to make it a (gasp) moral indignation display, then the participation of one Brigand will simply cease.
Sorry to get your dander up, I was only stating an obvious usage of English for Iskander which you failed to mention. Absolutely no judgement was made, you mistakenly saw one. I know absolutely nothing about the situation except what I've read and could care less about Thelemic related political battles. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Shiva |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 21, 2009 - 01:03 AM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 222
Location: The Wild, Wild West
Status: Offline
|
|
tai wrote: › This sounds rather sinister. Perhaps you neglected to peruse earlier comments on other threads where I tried to make it quite clear that Solar Lodge was very sinister, and (as someone else put it) "capable of anything!"
tai wrote: › Scopalomine is used in parts of the world as a truth serum for interrogations. Thank you for your input. This is exactly what I said in the book. However, it is also routinely used in dentistry along with the other drugs mentioned in order to produce a profound stupor. If it was to be used as a "truth serum," the demerol and seconal would not be used.
tai wrote: › Is it possible Sascha was secretly drugged to find out information on the OTO that Karl neglected to deal with before dying? You certainly have a vivid imagination. I believe Sascha was openly (not "secretly") drugged in order to keep her quiet and away from further harm. Plus Frater Shem liked to administer powerful drugs - see that aspect detailed in the book.
tai wrote: › The location of important documents etc? As I understand it, all the documents were already in one place. In fact they were in packing crates, ready to be shipped to Switzerland (according to Sascha). Perhaps that knowledge will make some people think twice about what was going on. This is all described in the book. |
_________________
93.'.
I Am Shiva the destroyer
I destroy illusion
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy1/ ... a-monk.jpg
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Shiva |
|
|
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 21, 2009 - 02:09 AM
|
|
Joined: Dec 02, 2007
Posts: 222
Location: The Wild, Wild West
Status: Offline
|
|
zardoz wrote: › Liberated" in the context of theft implies theft that was justified.
zardoz wrote: › I was only stating an obvious usage of English for Iskander which you failed to mention. Absolutely no judgement was made, you mistakenly saw one. Yes, I can see that. "Definition," not "Judgement" as interpreted by my touchy self. I was actually reacting more to other comments than your simple definition.
This all makes me wonder if perhaps a deeper examination of the circumstances of the time would be appropriate for a second edition, if and when it comes to be, in terms of "justification."
But then that's a concept to be discussed with the editor.
Thanks, |
_________________
93.'.
I Am Shiva the destroyer
I destroy illusion
http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy1/ ... a-monk.jpg
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
newneubergOuch |
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 21, 2009 - 03:01 AM
|
|
Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Posts: 107
Status: Offline
|
|
| This is fascinating Shiva, keep the stories coming tnx |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
zardoz |
|
|
Post subject: RE: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 21, 2009 - 03:15 AM
|
|
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 550
Location: Grass Valley, CA USA
Status: Offline
|
|
| I would look forward to reading a new edition. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Post subject: Re: Where Are They Now?
Posted: Mar 21, 2009 - 03:06 PM
|
|
Joined: Mar 17, 2009
Posts: 482
|
|
Shiva wrote: › Let me start this post by asking everyone to ignore my idle speculations about whether AC had the original antiquity or a copy of the stele.
Then let us assume that AC somehow reclaimed his "stolen" stele or had another copy made. The stele was "stolen" from his pack while Crowley was on one of his expeditions. This event was reported by him in The Confessions or in one of his diaries. Perhaps someone can remember where or when - I certainly can't.
And let us accept the Grant remembrance that "Crowley’s Stele was on AC’s chest of drawers at Netherwood on Feb. 21st 1945 and was described as 'copy on wood'."
And let us simply return to the original question: "…as to where A.C.’s personal Stele of Revealing may be," and take a look at some FACTS:
(1) Solar Lodge had a stele that was liberated from the Germer collection. The Germer collection was mainly Crowley's collection that was forwarded to him (Germer) by Gerald Yorke after AC's death.
Now this stele was painted on wood. It was about 12-14" wide, about 18-24" high, and about 1" thick. It had an identifying mark - There was a lighter "patch" of paint in front of Ankh-f-n-Khonsu.
I have seen this described as a "white patch" or "white spot" somewhere here on the forums, but the Lashtal search engine doesn't seem to help me to find the quote. In any case, this "patch" is mentioned as being seen in "some" pictures/reproductions in "some" Crowley book(s), but it (the "patch") is missing in other pictures/reproductions.
This "white patch" is not white. It is a light-yellow that was obviously used to patch-up or repair a portion of the slightly-darker-yellow background of the stele scene.
I assume this was AC's stele as it came with other AC items, including some of Crowley's diaries and (of course) the Book of Abramelin Talismans [mentioned above]...Now the question is: Was this the same painted wood stele that I have described above? Or was it one of many copies? The photo in my book is not clear enough to see whether the identifying "light patch" is present, and it must be remembered that Solar Lodge photographed a stele (in one of the books I believe) and printed full size [the size of the painted wood version] reproductions (in sepia tone), one of which was given to every one of the 75 [or so] members...
93 Shiva,
Your book sounds exciting. I have a photo of the original stele from the Cairo Museum. You can see a white patch to the left of the priest's groin and right above his head looks like it was repainted - a sort of dirty whitish yellow. The logical conclusion is either 1) this original stele is a copy or 2) Liber Al is wrong, correct? |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
in 10° 
: 
in 22° 
: Anno IVxviii 
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
