| Author |
Message |
Cronus |
|
Post subject: Amrita, The Book of Lies & the supreme secret of the O.T
 Posted: Jul 10, 2006 - 02:02 AM
|
|
Joined: Jun 27, 2006
Posts: 26
Status: Offline
|
|
I'm not initiated to any of the magickal orders of Aleister Crowley. I don't consider myself a Thelemite, atleast not yet, and I'm rather new to reading the work of A.C., so please forgive me if my lack of knowledge makes itself present in this post.
After purchasing a copy of The Book of Lies and reading the Foreword, which quotes his book Confessions:
"[Reuss] said that since I was acquainted with the supreme secret of the Order, I must be allowed the IX° and obligated in regard to it. I protested that I knew no such secret. He said, "But you have printed it in the plainest language." I said that I could not have done so because I did not know it. He went to the bookshelves and, taking out a copy of The Book of Lies, pointed to a passage in the despised chapter. It instantly flashed upon me. The entire symbolism, not only of freemasonry but of many other traditions, blazed upon my spiritual vision. From that moment the O.T.O. assumed its proper importance in my mind. I understood that I held in my hands the key to the future progress of humanity."
I was curious, to say the least, after reading that quote and the 93 chapters of The Book of Lies (not that I completely understand this book, being so new to his work, although I'm still able to appreciate it) as to which chapter he was referring to. I first came across a bio of A.C. on the website Wikipedia, encyclopedia, so I thought I'd read up on any further info they had about The Book of Lies. This is what I got off that site regarding the possible secret chapters:
"readers have suggested various possible chapters that might contain the secret. Wilson points to Chapter 69, "The Way to Succeed—and the Way to Suck Eggs!" Crowley's book De Arte Magica names Chapter 36, "The Star Sapphire"."
I didn't do any further research regarding the secret chapter after reading that.
I recently purchased a copy of the book Amrita: Essays in Magical Rejuvenation off eBay. The very beginning of this book, before you get to the title page, there is a copy of Chapter 18, "Dewdrops." from The Book of Lies... According to the introduction to the book Amrita by Martin P. Starr (the editor of Amrita) he clearly states that Crowley's writings on Occult medicine, particularly Amrita, as being the Central Secret of the O.T.O. and he talks about Crowley becoming a member of the IX° in the Order due to this writing on Occult medicine. It doesn't specifically say so, but I'm assuming that "Dewdrops", which clearly refers to Amrita and the Elixir/Dew of Immortality, is the secret chapter from The Book of Lies which Crowley was referring to?
Since I'm so new to this I'm not sure if what I'm talking about here is common knowledge between those of you who are Thelemites and/or have been reading Crowley for a long period of time, but I thought this as the perfect place to ask. I was suprised that Wikipedia doesn't mention chapter 18 as the secret chapter, only mentioning chapter 36 and 69 as the possibilities. Even the reviews that I've read about The Book of Lies mentions chapter 69.
So, let me know what you think about this!
93 |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
|
190 |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 23, 2007 - 09:51 PM
|
|
Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Posts: 1
Status: Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
magispiegel |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 23, 2007 - 10:43 PM
|
|
Joined: Nov 21, 2005
Posts: 466
Location: London
Status: Offline
|
|
Dear Cronus
I maybe wrong (but I dont think so)...but, I dont think that anybody here that uses this site would answer this question.
Best Wishes
Charles |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 24, 2007 - 03:42 AM
|
|
Joined: Oct 22, 2006
Posts: 64
|
|
Quote: ›
"[Reuss] said that since I was acquainted with the supreme secret of the Order, I must be allowed the IX° and obligated in regard to it. I protested that I knew no such secret. He said, "But you have printed it in the plainest language." I said that I could not have done so because I did not know it. He went to the bookshelves and, taking out a copy of The Book of Lies, pointed to a passage in the despised chapter. It instantly flashed upon me. The entire symbolism, not only of freemasonry but of many other traditions, blazed upon my spiritual vision. From that moment the O.T.O. assumed its proper importance in my mind. I understood that I held in my hands the key to the future progress of humanity."
In my opinion, this entire statement is a crock of ____ (Re: sigil within Chapter 87) |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
amadan-De |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Jan 25, 2007 - 01:31 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 13, 2006
Posts: 239
Location: A House in the Borderlands
Status: Offline
|
|
Quote: ›
I dont think that anybody here that uses this site would answer this question
Even if they did that would only give information not understanding. (Actually the information is pretty easy to come by these days...) There is a 'learning curve' involved (or so I believe) that is not susceptible to extreme shortcuts.
[I note that we have 4 chapters from "Lies" alluded to - 18, 36, 69 and 87 - any advance?] |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Parrisiastes |
|
|
Post subject: 33
Posted: Feb 01, 2008 - 11:16 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 01, 2008
Posts: 5
Status: Offline
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
barney |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 01:46 AM
|
|
Joined: May 09, 2008
Posts: 9
Status: Offline
|
|
| All of the above suggestions are incorrect....although Gold Bricks comes into play. AC is alway eager to flaunt his knowledge and share when asked. His teachings and suggested reading material give all the info necessary to carry this out. It only took me 35 years. Bon voyage |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 02:03 AM
|
|
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 77
|
|
barney wrote: › All of the above suggestions are incorrect....although Gold Bricks comes into play. AC is alway eager to flaunt his knowledge and share when asked. His teachings and suggested reading material give all the info necessary to carry this out. It only took me 35 years. Bon voyage
Barney
I would be interested to hear your opinion on Liber Legis and the Cairo Working. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Draconuit |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 02:22 AM
|
|
Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 78
Location: London U.K.
Status: Offline
|
|
Secrets? There are none. There are progressive states of unveiling, revealing further understanding of
All, as the lotus is revealed in its blossoming. |
_________________
ONE<>ALL
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
barney |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 01:22 PM
|
|
Joined: May 09, 2008
Posts: 9
Status: Offline
|
|
| AC, being imperfect, spent so much time over the edge that he lost sight of that edge and could not determine his own limits. He blurred the sharpness dulling the blade and left himself just like the rest of us. Convinced that he alone was right and unable to focus his words to convey his experience to others. There is a reason for secrets. The lotus submits to peeling but does not care to be probed. Neuberg would concure. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
newneubergOuch |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 02:14 PM
|
|
Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Posts: 69
Status: Offline
|
|
| Yes I concur the cur turned me into a camel by jove! |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
the_real_simon_iff |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 03:32 PM
|
|
Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 643
Location: Munick / Germany
Status: Offline
|
|
barney wrote: › He blurred the sharpness dulling the blade and left himself just like the rest of us. Convinced that he alone was right and unable to focus his words to convey his experience to others. There is a reason for secrets.
93!
I don't get this sentence fully - maybe it is the language barrier. It sounds like you like to say that AC was wrongly convinced that he was right (in his understanding of the "secret") - or why would you use the word "convinced"? Just for clarification.
I would not go so far to say that all the above posters were wrong.
Love=Law
Lutz |
_________________
"The Resistance to Change is intellectual Death, Insanity [...] the first clause in the Oath of the Black Brothers. The Law of Thelema is the Essence of Life, because of its perfect elasticity."
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Walterfive |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 05:38 PM
|
|
Joined: Jun 08, 2005
Posts: 201
Location: 13th Floor Elevator, Enron Hubbard Bldg. Houston, Texxas
Status: Offline
|
|
The Supreme Secret of the O.T.O., as I have come to understand it, is a divine communion that is clearly illustrated in Crowley's Gnostic Mass, and explicitly described in the Panarion of Ephiphaneus Vol. 1, orginally written in the 4th Century E.V.
The most intelligent discussion of it I have ever publically experienced is the lecture "The Gnostic Mass and the secret of the 9th Degree" conducted by Lon and Constance Duquette. I highly reccomend attending this lecture if you ever have the opportunity, it is open to all, wether one is an O.T.O. Initiate or not. I further reccomend you create the opportunity for yourself by *booking* the Duquettes to come to your town or city to conduct this lecture/class. |
Last edited by Walterfive on May 09, 2008 - 09:13 PM; edited 1 time in total
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
zardoz |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 07:13 PM
|
|
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Grass Valley, CA USA
Status: Offline
|
|
barney wrote: › and unable to focus his words to convey his experience to others.
This is the funniest statement I think I've ever seen on this site.  |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
defile959 |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 07:21 PM
|
|
Joined: Aug 09, 2007
Posts: 11
Status: Offline
|
|
Walterfive wrote: › The most intelligent discussion of it I have ever publically experienced is the lecture "The Gnostic Mass and the secret of the 9th Degree" conducted by Lon and Constance Duquette. I highly reccomend attending this lecture if you ever have the opportunity, it is open to all, wether on is an O.T.O. Initiate or not.
I concur, Walter! Getting to see that lecture in Dallas was a thought-provoking (as well as side-splitting) experience. I'd love to catch a repeat. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
barney |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 08:31 PM
|
|
Joined: May 09, 2008
Posts: 9
Status: Offline
|
|
I thouight that I chose my words carefully. Conveying information was AC's obsession. The double, triple ...meaning in his poetry is an example of his efforts to cram a great deal of info into each poem, word, slant of the letter. Every jot and tittle. The existance of this site is testimony of the fact that despite putting it in the plainest of words, and giving numerous hints, it remains hidden. That's what makes it occult. AC encourages me to reveal his meaning. But first the hints.
1 a passage from a chapter
2 something to insult his readers.
3 less structered than others...scribbled
post responses please
As a note, several years ago while reading the BOL for the umpteenth time, I read the despised chapter and the word "flashed" seems to have been very well chosen becauce that is exactly how I would describe it. aha |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Walterfive |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2008 - 09:12 PM
|
|
Joined: Jun 08, 2005
Posts: 201
Location: 13th Floor Elevator, Enron Hubbard Bldg. Houston, Texxas
Status: Offline
|
|
defile959 wrote: › Walterfive wrote: › The most intelligent discussion of it I have ever publically experienced is the lecture "The Gnostic Mass and the secret of the 9th Degree" conducted by Lon and Constance Duquette. I highly reccomend attending this lecture if you ever have the opportunity, it is open to all, wether on is an O.T.O. Initiate or not.
I concur, Walter! Getting to see that lecture in Dallas was a thought-provoking (as well as side-splitting) experience. I'd love to catch a repeat.
You and me both... tape it, or something... Lon & Constance go through so much, you just want to say "slow down! I can't parse all of this! The information rate is hitting critical mass! (You should pardon the pun!)"
"Whatever it is, it's NOT an Apple Pie!"  |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 10, 2008 - 11:35 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 77
|
|
barney wrote: › I thouight that I chose my words carefully. Conveying information was AC's obsession. The double, triple ...meaning in his poetry is an example of his efforts to cram a great deal of info into each poem, word, slant of the letter. Every jot and tittle. The existance of this site is testimony of the fact that despite putting it in the plainest of words, and giving numerous hints, it remains hidden. That's what makes it occult. AC encourages me to reveal his meaning. But first the hints.
1 a passage from a chapter
2 something to insult his readers.
3 less structered than others...scribbled
post responses please
As a note, several years ago while reading the BOL for the umpteenth time, I read the despised chapter and the word "flashed" seems to have been very well chosen becauce that is exactly how I would describe it. aha
The way to succeed and the way to suck eggs? A sucker is born every minute??
Your point is defeated if you pull a "Crowley" on us.. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
barney |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 11, 2008 - 03:31 PM
|
|
Joined: May 09, 2008
Posts: 9
Status: Offline
|
|
Only one guess allowed. maybe we should work backwords.
Premise...The Great Work is evident in human history.
Those who we know shaped humanity practiced the secret.
Which one passage was practiced by: Da vinci Bacon
. Newton ..need I name those you have studied?
If this is the secret of the art, why would it not be filed under
art |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 11, 2008 - 04:22 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 77
|
|
Barney,
You are being exceedingly cryptic but I think we agree that the 9th degree/sex magic answer is a red herring for the kids.
To give the historical answer, the supreme secret of the OTO is traced back to the Knights Templars and from there to the Order of the Assassins, the founder of which was in possession of it, and no doubt Sufi influence.
We dance around in a circle and suppose, but Baphomet sits in the center and knows |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
zardoz |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 11, 2008 - 06:50 PM
|
|
Joined: Jul 16, 2004
Posts: 167
Location: Grass Valley, CA USA
Status: Offline
|
|
Baphomet deifies one (so-called) secret that dates back to at least the early Christian gnostics as far as I know. Took me about 35 or 36 years ( slow learner) to divine that secret but couldn't say for sure that it is THE secret Crowley refers to or to what others here think it is.
Quote: › Barney,
You are being exceedingly cryptic
Quote: › Convinced that he alone was right and unable to focus his words to convey his experience to others.
Who is referenced in the last quote, Crowley? When I first read it and thought AC I found it quite amusing. Now I suspect it to be self-revealing.
My take on this is along the lines of the lotus blooming. The only real secret appears to be that there are no secrets. Unless you want to call not understanding something until the light dawns a secret.
I suspect the Reuss story to be a ruse. Would love to see evidence to the contrary. The Reuss ruse allowed AC to rightfully advertise and point out the Book of Lies for what it is ( on one level) - a very advanced set of instructions for practicing sexual alchemy. Gold Bricks indeed. The search for the mysterious secret also generates this kind of interest and attention, obviously.
The 11th degree/ homosexual working also seems a pink herring as far as secrets go.
Nice riddling Barney and h2h and AC. I love a good puzzle. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Uni_Verse |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 12, 2008 - 01:27 AM
|
|
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Posts: 329
Status: Offline
|
|
Quote: ›
From that moment the O.T.O. assumed its proper importance in my mind. I understood that I held in my hands the key to the future progress of humanity.
Why do you think the OTO suddenly became so important?
What service were they to provide? |
_________________
You are missing the point
There is only one verse, sung in infinite ways.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: May 12, 2008 - 05:35 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 77
|
|
|
in 28° 
: 
in 4° 
: Anno IVxvi 
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
