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Stele of Revealing: Identifying the Details  

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The HGA of a Duck
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07/06/2020 6:42 pm  

I'm gradually getting the vector art Stele, the progress is slow partly because whenever I can't quite make out what is going on in the source image, I browse images of paintings from Ancient Egypt to find the most likely way some thing should be depicted.

stele crop

(I cropped and re-saved this pic and the file size just happened to come to 1.56 MB 🙂)

I though it would be cool to make a little thread where I can post some of these findings as I go and others may have some suggestions. I'll start with Ankh-f-n-Khonsu's funny little "hat".

ankh enhance

(I made a composite image to try and bring out as much detail of his face as possible, some artistic licence used to darken the places most likely to have black lines where there was damage in the source image).

After browsing a lot of Egyptian art I now believe Ankh's "hat" is actually what is known as a "perfume cone" or "head cone".

These cones would have been lumps of fat that released perfume as they melted.

https://www.livescience.com/ancient-egypt-head-cone-burial.html

 

In the image of Ankh, I believe the cone is resting in a sort of "basket". The artist most likely painted the black outlines first and then painted it green more crudely, some of the green paint falling outside these lines. In low-res images this isn't clear and the end result looks more like a triangular "party-hat".

I haven't found one exactly like Ankh's but this example on a woman on another stele is the closest I have found:

cone example

 

Some more of these cones that I have now accumulated:

cones

 


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ignant666
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07/06/2020 7:10 pm  

It is of course very appropriate, Your Drakeness, that, on this particular bit of Egyptian art, and unlike any of your other examples, the "perfume cone" in your "close-up" version looks remarkably like the notorious "cock and balls" capital "A" in AC's signature.

And something that has become apparent only upon your meticulous restoration- no one can say that "Ol' Fakey" was not thorough.


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Shiva
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07/06/2020 7:35 pm  

With the introduction of the Conehead archetype, you are now bringing the Stele of Revealing, and all its mysteries, into the Saturday Night TV Family Live room of households everywhere.

Very nice work. We may need to keep you stuck at this pylon for a while.


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The HGA of a Duck
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08/06/2020 2:54 am  

@ignant666

Well observed.

ankh2

 

Posted by: @shiva

We may need to keep you stuck at this pylon for a while.

I'm fine with that, its quite comfy here.

 


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christibrany
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08/06/2020 10:40 pm  

@duck

 

What a dick head. 

 

😐 

 

 


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ignant666
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08/06/2020 10:54 pm  

My old bass-player's best friend in high school was called Richard; he was universally known as "Dick Head".

He answered to it (i hung out with him a good deal), and you could call his parent's house, and his mom would answer, and you'd say "Is Dick Head home?", and she'd either say "No, he's out" or yell "Richard! Phone!"

This is an example of the 93 Current at work, or, perhaps, not.


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The HGA of a Duck
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09/06/2020 8:13 pm  

After browsing Egyptian art, it now makes sense that Ankh's "belt buckle" is a leopard's head though its unclear whether its meant to be the original head that came with the pelt (looks a bit small for this) or an amulet-style fake one. You can see the two ears on each side. 

leopard

 

It has the look of this wooden head from Tut's tomb:

tut leopard

 

 

The head on this one worn by the Pharaoh Ay is quite small:

ay leopard

 

As is this one, so maybe it was just an artistic convention to depict them like this:

smallhead

 

Another example on this Ankh-lookalike:

fake ankh

 

I found a nice little site all about Egyptian priests, with lots of pics:

http://www.ancient-egypt-priests.com/AE-Life-english.htm

 

It sounds like they had to make do with imitation leopard skins when there was a shortage of the real stuff.

 

The weird little deity Bes was also fond of them. This one looks a lot like Ankh's to me:

bes leopard

 


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Shiva
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09/06/2020 8:32 pm  
Posted by: @duck

The head on this one worn by the Pharaoh Ay is quite small:

Ay. Aye!


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The HGA of a Duck
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09/06/2020 9:07 pm  

@shiva

"Yes?"


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ignant666
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09/06/2020 9:16 pm  

That is a very creepy and wrong thing, please make it go away. If it comes near me, i'm shooting it.

WTF is that, anyway?


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soz
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10/06/2020 1:43 am  

it might be related to what the sailors say when their captain directs them to steer the ship toward lemuria


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Shiva
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10/06/2020 1:43 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

WTF is that, anyway?

TTF is a computer-generated thing. We could take a photo of Maude and turn it into something like this ... or worse.

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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10/06/2020 2:28 am  

To explain my not very funny pun (and so kill what little humour was in it anyway):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aye-aye

Its a weird nocturnal animal, creepy but quite cute (like many of us here).


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ignant666
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10/06/2020 2:50 am  

Oh my gods, what a horrifying creature- look at its claws in the wikipedia article. They only weigh about 4 lbs though, and are solely found in Madagascar.

Note to self: Never, ever, go to Madagascar; buy another couple boxes shotgun ammo just in case they ever learn to swim.

How these Xians go around believing in a beneficent Creator in a world with these horrors, Komodo dragons, gila monsters, poison ivy, the human appendix, wisdom teeth, and income tax is beyond me.


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Jamie J Barter
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10/06/2020 3:30 am  

But a chastening thought to consider the meagre amount of millions of years it will have been, since the death of the dinosaurs, when we (humankind) and this exotic creature shared the common ancestry of a mutual mummy and daddy!

Butting away from the topic,

Norma N Joy Conquest


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Shiva
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10/06/2020 4:19 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

solely found in Madagascar.

Which happens to be a chunk of lost lemuria, after which lemurs are named, and Made-a-gas-car is full of creepy leftovers. Although its head reminds me of a Chihuahua, I also noted the claws. Things with long claws are to be suspicioned.

Posted by: @ignant666

a beneficent Creator in a world with these horrors

Just think what it was like for our ancestors. I think sabre-toothed cats were a primary adversary.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

dinosaurs, when we (humankind) and this exotic creature shared the common ancestry of a mutual mummy and daddy!

Yeah, them. We, the smart humans, have a core in our brain known as the reptilian brain: common to all lizards and snakes (and dinos). I understand we humans did not share Earth with the dinos. I guess we cam later, brobably mixed with bird DNA. The sabre-tooth and the Woolly Mammoth were supposedly co-existent with man-folk.

 


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The HGA of a Duck
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12/06/2020 1:40 pm  

Moving on from that creepy critter...

To those of you who have made your own Stele, how important (or not) was it for you to understand the symbolism of what you were depicting? Or was it mainly the connection to AC that gives the Stele its importance?

Also how important do you think it is to get the details as accurate as possible, or is a sincere act of "devotion" more important?


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Shiva
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12/06/2020 5:17 pm  
Posted by: @duck

Also how important do you think it is to get the details as accurate as possible, or is a sincere act of "devotion" more important?

Every line and every color is a detail. There is no difference. Devotees attempt to get the details right, and their sincere act will surely lead to liberation ... or not. "Only a Master of the Temple can see" which is what and how much is better.

 


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djedi
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12/06/2020 5:32 pm  
Posted by: @duck

how important (or not) was it for you to understand the symbolism of what you were depicting?

Anything written in hieroglyphic is no mere objet d'art. One portion of the soul, according to the ancient egpytians, was the šwt (or shuyet) which means 'shadow.' The shadow of a god was its image on earth. When you made the images of Nut and Re-Harakhty, and even the image of Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu, you were reifying divinity, wrestling something down from heaven and making it real. According to the ancient Egyptians, anyway. I would still take the time to reflect on what I've done, even if I were to not take it seriously.

But that only goes for the most apprehensible 'symbolism' of the thing. We can read in Apuleius's The Golden Ass that the some of the most primitive mysteries were received via hieroglyphic texts. Lucius did not comprehend the language when he was initiated into the Isiac mysteries, but it had the same effect on him as anyone else. He "wore his shaved head with pride," if I recall correctly.

What I'm getting at is, the 'symbolism' works whether or not you understand it. You should still make the effort, though.

Posted by: @duck

is a sincere act of "devotion" more important?

Herodotus wrote that the Egyptians were the most religious of all the ancient peoples. This is because there was no seperation, to them, of religion and the other spheres of daily life. While there may have been magical realities to be considered, like the difference between being ritually clean and ritually unclean, there was no such dichotomy as sacred or profane. Every act, from playing board games to defecating, was a 'sincere act of devotion'; and having faith in a god, to them, was no different than having faith in gravity to modern man.

One of the greatest failures of the G.'.D.'. was its teaching that a modern magician must separate his magical work from daily life.

This is why AC espoused daily rituals and saying will, etc.

 


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Jamie J Barter
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12/06/2020 10:01 pm  
Posted by: @djedi

[T]here was no such dichotomy as sacred or profane. Every act, from playing board games to defecating, was a 'sincere act of devotion' ...

As in, say, every phenomenon of such being a particular dealing of 'God' with their soul?

Posted by: @djedi

One of the greatest failures of the G.'.D.'. was its teaching that a modern magician must separate his magical work from daily life.

Do you have a specific reference somewhere for this being an actual requirement (rather than say, a necessity which happened to be dictated by his/her circumstances)?

Posted by: @djedi

you were reifying divinity, wrestling something down from heaven and making it real.

"Something down"?  As opposed to from within, say?

Saying so,

Norma N Joy Conquest

 

 


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djedi
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14/06/2020 10:14 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

As in, say, every phenomenon of such being a particular dealing of 'God' with their soul?

That's a gist of it.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Do you have a specific reference somewhere for this being an actual requirement (rather than say, a necessity which happened to be dictated by his/her circumstances)?

I think it was in a flying roll. I skimmed through a few for you, but didn't find it.

When I was a little hillbilly, my parents once took me to Lambert's Café, home of the flying rolls. I thought it was stupid. My dad also thought it was stupid.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

"Something down"?  As opposed to from within, say?

Something down among the dancing quanta, where everything exists at once, or up above in transverse city, where every weekend lasts for months. Or maybe a metaphor elucidating a notion paradigmatically indescribable in literal terms.


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ignant666
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14/06/2020 10:21 pm  
Posted by: @djedi

home of the flying rolls

Just to let you know that there is one old "Show Me" boy on here who appreciated this joke. To everyone else: obscure redneck humor, ignore.


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christibrany
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16/06/2020 8:01 pm  

@ignant666

 

How 'miserable' 


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ignant666
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16/06/2020 8:20 pm  

Well, i think they got one in Tennessee too, but yes. Astonished someone else here may have gotten son's joke, but i suppose you'd be the one.

And once again kudos to @djedi for a Golden Dawn joke that could (almost) have played on Hee-Haw.


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christibrany
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16/06/2020 9:15 pm  

Golden Done (rolls) 


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ignant666
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16/06/2020 9:26 pm  

Golden and throwed.


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The HGA of a Duck
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01/07/2020 10:54 am  

If you ever wondered what Nuit looks like "the right way up", here she is with a bit of enhancement. Not a bad looking lass.

nuit enhancement

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The HGA of a Duck
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01/07/2020 5:59 pm  

I've been puzzling over how Nuit's hands are meant to be depicted. Its not clear from the photo whether the individual fingers are shown or if its left up to the imagination:

nuit hands

 

I found a few other depictions of her hands from other steles:

hands

 

None of these are in exactly the same position as in Ankh f.n.K's Stele. The Egyptians had a peculiar way of depicting hands (or feet) in which the left and right hands appear the same, this can make one of the hands look like its the wrong way round. After looking at these depictions this is my guess as to how Nuit's hands should appear:

nuit hands trace

 

I'll add these details to my vector art, they can easily be removed again. If anyone has any alternative theories on these matters I'm interested to hear them.


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Shiva
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01/07/2020 7:18 pm  
Posted by: @duck

The Egyptians had a peculiar way of depicting hands (or feet)

They were copying the hands and feet of their alien "gods," who were not quite human, and sometimes had bird heads. Well, that what some rural urban legends say.

Posted by: @duck

this is my guess

That seems pretty-well guessed. When I assume the Nuit position, which is somewhat difficult these days, I notice that my thumbs are on the opposite side ofmy hands - as compared to the stele (unless I rotate my elbows out and twist the hands "backward."

This has nothing to do with duplicating old drawings, but is merely a comment on human anatomy (versus alien depictions).

 


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christibrany
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01/07/2020 10:24 pm  

@shiva

 

 I like to think of the Nuit position as a sexual thing.

I drew a very nice picture of that.  

 

 

Not totally sexual but the beauty of a woman being the whole of sky and earth.

 

She's on top of the world. 

 

That's good.

20170711 203658 1

 

 

 


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christibrany
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01/07/2020 10:27 pm  

if you see 'my hands' you shall see its normal. 

from pushup position

who stands over the little flower, her earth, on only finger tips? 

well she is a goddess,.... so shes is infinite space with no weight. 

 

 


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Shiva
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02/07/2020 2:55 am  

Your picture is unreadable. It will not load into "View Image." It is undoubtedly embedded with alien reptile nanobots.


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christibrany
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02/07/2020 3:50 pm  

It is viewable for me even not logged-in.  Anyone else having issues?

Heres a tiny screen shot

image

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wellreadwellbred
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02/07/2020 4:38 pm  

"Duck HGA" (OP): "I'm gradually getting the vector art Stele, the progress is slow partly because whenever I can't quite make out what is going on in the source image, I browse images of paintings from Ancient Egypt to find the most likely way some thing should be depicted." 

 

[Bold in quoted text below added by me, to emphasize that the Ankhefenkhons Stela might be an example of "less quality in the workmanship; being oddly proportioned or poorly executed; ..." ]: 

""Royal and elite statuary served as intermediaries between the people and the gods. Family chapels with the statuary of a deceased forefather could serve as a sort of 'family temple.' There were festivals in honor of the dead, where the family would come and eat in the chapel, offering food for the Afterlife, flowers (symbols of rebirth), and incense (the scent of which was considered divine). Preserved letters let us know that the deceased was actively petitioned for their assistance, both in this world and the next.

What we see in museums
Generally, the works we see on display in museums were products of royal or elite workshops; these pieces fit best with our modern aesthetic and ideas of beauty. Most museum basements, however, are packed with hundreds (even thousands!) of other objects made for people of lower status—small statuary, amulets, coffins, and stelae (similar to modern tombstones) that are completely recognizable, but rarely displayed. These pieces generally show less quality in the workmanship; being oddly proportioned or poorly executed; they are less often considered ‘art’ in the modern sense. However, these objects served the exact same function of providing benefit to their owners (and to the same degree of effectiveness), as those made for the elite (source: https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/ancient-art-civilizations/egypt-art/beginners-guide-egypt/a/egyptian-art). "

With respect to "the actual image which is ON the stele", Egyptian artists in the Ancient Egypt followed "Modes of representation for two-dimensional art", where "... scenes are complex composite images that provide complete information about the various elements, rather than ones designed from a single viewpoint, which would not be as comprehensive in the data they conveyed (source: https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/ancient-art-civilizations/egypt-art/beginners-guide-egypt/a/egyptian-art) ."

[...]

"Introduction [...] Art as, defined by European standards, did not exist, the decoration of the tomb had a specific function and, as such, artistic considerations were not important. According to Aldred (1980 p15) the artist “… represented not what could be seen transiently, but what he expected to exist for perpetuity, symbols rather than images”.

This does not mean the tombs are devoid of beauty but rather should be viewed with an unprejudiced eye. The tomb craftsman used two dimensional art to fully represent what he was trying to show. It was ‘fit for purpose’; indeed it was more than that as some of the small vignettes are testimony to skill to the largely unknown craftsman. Indeed “to represent was, in a way, to create” (Robins 1997 p12) so they needed to represent the clearest picture of the object or figure, so it was instantly recognisable. [...] Groups of Figures [...] Adults are always shown in their prime, women are slim, and men are muscular. “The owner could be displayed either as a young man with a short kilt or a mature man with a calf length kilt. The wife was always displayed young as maturity might indicate lack of fertility.” (Robins 1997 p76). “The elite have no disease, deformity or old age…identity was established by the inscriptions” (Robins 1997 p75). [...] The Tomb [...] The central figure was usually male, accompanied by wives, parents and offspring. His titles and name would be constantly repeated and a biography would be included. There would be a false door connecting the dead with the living. The deceased would be shown before a table of offerings and there could be a procession of offering bearers. "

Source: Describe the conventions of representation used in Egyptian two-dimensional art. Demonstrate this with reference to the wall scenes in ONE non-royal tomb of the later Old Kingdom. Jane Akshar 01 Mar, 16 - - - https://www.sailthenile.com/river-nile-cruises-what-to-see-and-do/describe-the-conventions-of-representation-used-in-egyptian-two-dimensional-art-demonstrate-this-with-reference-to-the-wall-scenes-in-one-non-royal-tomb-of-the-later-old-kingdom/ "

(Quotes from Page 2 in the thread "My quotes from, & comment to, download Timothy Moss: “Case of the Cairo Working" - - - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/thelema/my-quotes-from-comment-to-download-timothy-moss-squaring-the-circle/paged/2/  )

 

 


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ignant666
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02/07/2020 5:20 pm  

We can always count on you for these very useful posts, wrwb.


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Shiva
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02/07/2020 5:57 pm  
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

(Quotes from Page 2 in the thread "My quotes from, & comment to, download Timothy Moss: “Case of the Cairo Working"

Quotes ... more quotes ... and more comments. It would be spectacular if you were to simply write your own thoughts in your own words. That is, the Guidelines do not prohibit your style, but it's sort of like reading the news; news that has references and exhibits, but no headlines and no summary blurb.

You see, it's so very hard to get your point if you don't make it.

 


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wellreadwellbred
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02/07/2020 6:02 pm  

The HGA of a Duck (OP): "... whenever I can't quite make out what is going on in the source image, I browse images of paintings from Ancient Egypt to find the most likely way some thing should be depicted."

"... However, these objects [of less quality] served the exact same function of providing benefit to their owners (and to the same degree of effectiveness), as those made for the elite." (Source:  https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/ancient-art-civilizations/egypt-art/beginners-guide-egypt/a/egyptian-art).  "

[Words in square brackets have been added by me, to a direct quotation avove.]

 

In the funerary art in Ancient Egypt, the most likely way some thing should be depicted, is in the highest quality.


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christibrany
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02/07/2020 8:54 pm  

@ignant666

 

I just scroll past said posts and ignore said quotes. 


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christibrany
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02/07/2020 8:55 pm  

To paraphrase John Lennon on top of the pops back in the early 60s when they were playing skiffle 

 

'what bout my picture then?!' 

 

 


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dom
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02/07/2020 10:37 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

(Quotes from Page 2 in the thread "My quotes from, & comment to, download Timothy Moss: “Case of the Cairo Working"

Quotes ... more quotes ... and more comments. It would be spectacular if you were to simply write your own thoughts in your own words. That is, the Guidelines do not prohibit your style, but it's sort of like reading the news; news that has references and exhibits, but no headlines and no summary blurb.

You see, it's so very hard to get your point if you don't make it.

 

Do we have a nutter in our midst?  Just incessant splurges of italicised paragraphs and links and quotes as a way of expressing ...what?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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christibrany
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02/07/2020 10:49 pm  

@dom

 

Hes not a nutter, he's not a he. 

He's a bot, man. 


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ignant666
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02/07/2020 10:56 pm  

I think said person is a disillusioned ex-Thelemite, who has become a Xian or a Scientologist, and is trying to show us the error of said ways.

Said bot would probably make more interesting posts than said wrwb.


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djedi
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02/07/2020 11:16 pm  

I believe @wellreadwellbred 's point is that @duck would do better to interpolate clearer or superior examples of the artwork the original painter of the stele imitated, rather than copy the (supposedly) inferior version outright, into the digital stele of revealing.

For example, instead of copying the stele's depiction of Nuit, he would find a better depiction of Nuit from some other source and use that for the digital version.

I am of no opinion on the matter.

Posted by: @christibrany

'what bout my picture then?!' 

It loaded in fine for me, even when you first posted it.


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dom
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02/07/2020 11:31 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

I think said person is a disillusioned ex-Thelemite, who has become a Xian or a Scientologist, and is trying to show us the error of said ways.

Said bot would probably make more interesting posts than said wrwb.

Ah Jesus I keep forgetting that wbrw is the guy who pushes Scientology.  Yep but isn't that trolling?  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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wellreadwellbred
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02/07/2020 11:41 pm  

djedi: "I believe @wellreadwellbred 's point is that @duck would do better to interpolate clearer or superior examples of the artwork the original painter of the stele imitated, rather than copy the (supposedly) inferior version outright, into the digital stele of revealing."

Yes, that is my point, and The HGA of a Duck is open to using artistic licence to bring out as much detail as possible in the source image:  

The HGA of a Duck: "(I made a composite image to try and bring out as much detail of his face as possible, some artistic licence used to darken the places most likely to have black lines where there was damage in the source image)."


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Shiva
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03/07/2020 12:06 am  
Posted by: @djedi

It loaded in fine for me, even when you first posted it.

The first one was unreadable on both a new Linux and an old XP. Both were running Firefox. When I clicked to view the image, the app started loading all of Duck's recent pic posts, down at the bottom, in a neat row. But the first pic never booted up.

The second picture (a screen shot) was just barely outlined. The "view image" function worked well, and I finally got to see the pic.

 


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 3110
03/07/2020 12:15 am  

Yeah, i just had that happen with an image on an old Mac running Firefox in Ubuntu Linux- what was displayed was the first image on the page, with all the others in order as thumbnails on the bottom. Clicking on the last thumbnail will produce the last image posted. Some sort of Firefox quirk i suspect.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2581
03/07/2020 12:30 am  

*warning egoic calls for attention*

(Hey at least I realise how my brain works now. I think that's progress)

Some humans saw my image but didn't comment on its graphical artistry and beauty.

OK I'll take off my RTC hat now

 

Haha 🙂

 

I just like naked women.well and all beauty.   I also drew Ra, Apophis and Ahathoor. 

 


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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1553
03/07/2020 3:01 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

Some humans saw my image but didn't comment on its graphical artistry and beauty.

Possibly because they didn't see any such evidence in place of either?

Haha, Hoho & a Heeheehee,

Z Joy

 


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4944
03/07/2020 6:02 am  

This thread is reserved for comments on The Race to Conquer SteleLGMOR.

Chris, thank you for showing your drawing. It was very androgynous.

Can someone send Linux and Firefox back to the Borg for fine-tuning or revision?

So now Duck is revealing his techniques under the microcosm microscope, and we begin to see that the stele is more like a photo (which his "hires" is) than a coloring book. I believe this thread, and this project, is an exercise in the refinement of linear art. I do it all the time, but not at this level of anality analysis with resulting pixelogogy. Here's how one (modern) artist handled it, with a different int ...

image

 


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