Aleister Crowley's chart
My natal chart shares some similarities with Aleister Crowley's and I'm wondering what it means. The similarities include Leo ascendant and signs in the same houses, Uranus in the 1st and Saturn in the 7th houses.
Having said this, I'm finding there is some confusion regarding the placement of planets in houses in Crowley's chart, perhaps depending on the house system used. Does anyone know if Crowley's Moon was in his 8th or 9th house?
No. Nobody knows, because AC's birth time was approximate. Since the moon is the "fastest mover" in the chart, only a few minutes (or especially a couple hours!) can put it in different hours.
The Ascendant is also a "rapid runner" and is subject to the same fast-changing dilemma. Other "planets" are slower-moving, so just a date is usually sufficient, but for moon-ascendant deals, we need the exact time of birth.
Moon in pisces in the eighth house makes sense considering Aleister Crowley's large inheritance, use of hard drugs, interest in prostitutes and sex magick, and later bankruptcy. Also sun in Libra in the 3rd house makes sense considering his constant travelling and being a teacher and writer. Leo rising and Uranus in the first house also fit Aleister's quirky, proud, and attention getting personality.
My now deceased astologer friends Lois Rodden and Edwin Steinbrecher collected thousands of charts and have Aleister Crowley's astrological chart at this location on astro.com:
The chart is rectified slightly by Steinbrecher to 11:04 pm based on Aleister's quoted approximate birth time and compared to his personality and life choices/events.
Jim Eshelman quotes his autobiography, "Confessions of Aleister Crowley," in which he gives a time of "11:00 PM to Midnight," rectified by Eshelman. Crowley did, however, publish a chart in "Equinox of the Gods" that is set for 10:50 PM LMT. LeGros gave 10:58 PM in AA. Penfield quotes the chart in "Equinox" for 10:32 PM in Mercury Hour Ext., 1/1980. Steinbrecher rectified to 11:04 PM.
Thanks for your comments on this thread. I'm aware of the uncertainty about Crowley's time of birth. I suppose I was trusting in certain charts - such as the one published by Crowley in 'The Equinox of the Gods' and the one in the link posted by elitemachinery, because these were among the first I came across.
Nevertheless, there's a maddening divergence in the placements of key planets in versions of his chart, which I assumed may be due partly to the types of house system used. In the more traditional system in 'The Equinox of the Gods' the Moon is in the 9th house; in some others it is in the 8th (mine is in the 8th). Gregorius, who may have been following the chart published by Crowley, puts Saturn in the 8th house; in others it is in the 7th. Some of the differences may be of one house remove.
Another similarity, in addition to those I mentioned in my first post, is that in the chart in 'The Equinox of the Gods' Crowley's Ascendant begins at 0.3 degrees of Leo. Mine begins at 0.4.
My sister noticed a geometric similarity between Crowley's chart (in a modern house style) and mine. The patterns formed by the lines of the angles in both resembled a hexagon, the points of which may be joined to form a hexagram.
Naturally I've been intrigued by all this through the years, but may never know what it means. Possibly having signs falling in the same houses accounts for a lot.
I was taught that the most accurate house system is Koch house cusps so that is what I use. I believe if you use Crowley's time of 10:50 pm or Edwin's time of 11:04 pm it places Crowley's moon in 8th, sun in 3rd and Saturn in 7th. Uranus in the 1st house opposite Saturn in the 7th would make sense of Crowley's life long rebellion against the forces of established religious groups. He would be playing the role of solo revolutionary (Uranus in 1st in sign Leo) opposite Saturn (the established order) in 7th house (7th house being the other or shadow/peers) in sign Aquarius (groups.)
As the time is adjusted all the planets obviously change houses along with each other. I think moon in the 8th house Pisces, Saturn in the 7th house Aquarius, and Sun in the 3rd house Libra make the most sense considering Crowley's life pattern.
If you personally have Uranus in the first house you might feel akin to Crowley's rebel spirit. And with the same Leo ascendant as Crowley you would also have the same sign on most of the other houses.
When rectifying a chart sometimes the use of dwads can help but it is still a bit of a guessing game. Dwads divide each sign into twelve 2.5 degree sections. So a Leo ascendant at 5 degrees will have Libra dwad Leo rising and a Leo ascendant of 8 degrees will have Scorpio dwad Leo rising.
More about dwads here:
Thanks elitemachinery. I remember reading that a Moon in the 8th house is a potent placement with magical or psychic attributions.
If I understand what you're saying then, if Crowley's time of birth was 11.04 he would have a Leo ascendant of 8 degrees with Scorpio dawd Leo rising.
With a Leo ascendant at 4 degrees I would have Virgo dawd Leo rising.
After my last post, when I wrote that some versions of Crowley's chart have planet placements at one house remove, it occurred to me that one house difference would cover the roughly two hour period, from 10 to 12, in which astrologers have placed his time of birth.
I was taught that the most accurate house system is Koch house cusps so that is what I use. I believe if you use Crowley’s time of 10:50 pm or Edwin’s time of 11:04 pm it places Crowley’s moon in ...
It doesn't matter which house system one uses ... if the TIME of birth is not known.
Bodies like the Moon and the Ascendant change rapidly. So a few minutes off the actual time will reflect inaccuracies in the client's personality.
Bodies like Uranus and Saturn (etc) move so slowly that thousands of people will share the same "deep" characteristics.
Oh yeah, there are methods for working backward (using what we know about the client in order to determine the time of birth), but that's like exchanging letters in a word in order to arrive at a number that is either predetermined, or just keep exchanging 'til the Qabalah gives up an auspicious numeral.
Oh yeah, there are methods for working backward (using what we know about the client in order to determine the time of birth), but that’s like exchanging letters in a word in order to arrive at a number that is either predetermined, or just keep exchanging ’til the Qabalah gives up an auspicious numeral.
Yes ascendant and house signs move the fastest. I've seen astrologers working a completely wrong chart wrong month wrong sun sign wrong everything and were still able to make sense and explain the person's life. Which doesn't say much for astrology as an exact science. Or maybe any good bullshitter can read a person enough to make sense.
But an exact birth time can make for good insights. Just being able to differentiate between what our ego/persona is interested in vs what our solar star/sun is interested in is a huge distinction to be made.
I don't like predictive astrology because it's all just energy and each individual will use it and respond in different ways. I'd rather frame things as 'this is what is available and possible during this transit' etc.
I like say I look for reality and events to teach me about and expand my understanding of astrology rather than visa versa. But both have their use.
If it can help one find out what the heck they would be good at or find their true will or just give one the permission to go after a true interest or dream then all the better. True will would be found in the solar construct first by house and sign and any conjunct planets to the Sun.
As for Crowley's chart I think it would be safe to go with his time of 10:50pm. He may have spoken to relatives and had other reasons he didn't mention for choosing this time. He also knew himself pretty well and was a decent astrologer. So if I were going to analyze his chart I would start there.
Crowley had Leo rising and Uranus in Leo in the 1st house by most accounts. So the attention getting revolutionary quirky controversial kook satanist etc got a lot of press. But as people get to know the real Crowley they see more of his Sun in the 3rd house. He was serious about his ideas and his message and his writing. It's okay to have an "act" or "shtick" but it's good to know what is the real you and what is the act. Crowley knew this obviously.