Notifications
Clear all

Acoustic Sigils & Jimmy Page  

Page 1 / 2
  RSS

 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/02/2009 5:55 pm  

Em hotep everyone,

Has anyone come across anything that might point towards Page's use of Acoustic Sigilism in his compositions?

Thank you,
EM


Quote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/02/2009 6:00 pm  
"Etu_Malku" wrote:
Em hotep everyone,

Has anyone come across anything that might point towards Page's use of Acoustic Sigilism in his compositions?

Thank you,
EM

LOL!


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/02/2009 8:35 pm  

What the hell is "Acoustic Sigilism"?


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1503
01/02/2009 9:17 pm  

What the hell is "Acoustic Sigilism"?

Its a seal a signet an incised emblem projected into sonic substance with reverberant echoes in aeonic band withs. Jimmy woud controll the frequencies with his hands live. ๐Ÿ˜ฎ


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/02/2009 9:17 pm  

LOLOLOL . . . what is so funny?


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/02/2009 9:19 pm  
"Tiger" wrote:

What the hell is "Acoustic Sigilism"?

Its a seal a signet an incised emblem projected into sonic substance with reverberant echoes in aeonic band withs. Jimmy woud controll the frequencies with his hands live. ๐Ÿ˜ฎ

Isn't that just Page using the Theremin?


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1503
01/02/2009 9:34 pm  

Isn't that just Page using the Theremin?

if you like


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/02/2009 9:40 pm  

ummmm ok....whatever you say...


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/02/2009 10:01 pm  

are you saying that you believe that sigilism can only work in the visual field? Mind you that everything is vibration, what you can see is vibrating frequencies. Sound would be the home of sigilism.

I have been using acoustic sigils for a while, you should not make fun of something you do not understand. How did you learn what you do know?


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/02/2009 10:07 pm  
"Tiger" wrote:
Isn't that just Page using the Theremin?

if you like

his use of the Theremin would not leave ample time to create the acoustic sigil, charge it, erase it's memory and use it.


ReplyQuote
einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 915
01/02/2009 10:14 pm  

Maybe I am an anomaly but I found it relatively easy to surmise what was meant by "acoustic sigilisim." It seemed rather clear actually. That sounds like a fascinating approach and I would suspect Jimmy Page would be creative enough to devise such an technique.

I donโ€™t see why the question has garnered such a reaction. Surely Jimmy P isn't subject to the same "if Crowley didnโ€™t do it..." rules? Have said rules now extended to "Spare never drew that..." as well? ๐Ÿ˜ˆ


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/02/2009 10:25 pm  

Thank you einDopelganger:
Do you think he might have empowered passages in Zep songs?


ReplyQuote
einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 915
01/02/2009 10:39 pm  

Cheers Etu_Malku

I really like the idea but I suspect if he did it would be quite personal and little to nothing would be known about it. Rightfully so, it allows the rest of us to feel like there is an open field for creativity ๐Ÿ™‚

Are you thinking of your own method of creating musical sigils? It seems with the wealth of information on sacred geometry, magic, and acoustics out there this would be a prime area for some experimentation. I am sure there have been some others who have worked on this approach. The only contemporary examples I can think of are more of an experimental / tape loop / industrial variety. Nothing that works with the complex intricacies of musical theory springs to mind. There has been some mention of Tool in another thread but there is no practical information yet on just how they may be applying technique. Sounds like you have a lot of room to explore ๐Ÿ™‚

S


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
01/02/2009 11:02 pm  

I have worked with the DNA repairing Sacred Solfeggios and their Chakra bending abilities along with Mantras and frequencies attributed to the Qliphoth of the Tree of Death. I have been developing this theory for a while, it is true that there is so much to research and develop that this becomes a very mind stifling path to work.

I have lived and studied with Robert Fripp who commands some of these esoteric Gurdjieff-like concepts.

Though I am far from a unified theory encompassing sigil work, High Magick & Vibration I am eager to discuss (intelligently) these ideas with anyone willing.


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1503
01/02/2009 11:43 pm  

wow did a search on youtube
The DNA Visual Healing Pattern & sound Frequency Of 528 Hz and Chladni Patterns
interesting stuff

i've heard of meditation tools that use sound also

"his use of the Theremin would not leave ample time to create the acoustic sigil, charge it, erase it's memory and use it."

Jimmy would improv
There's a different sense of time when one does improv.

and yes

"it would be quite personal and allow all the rest of us to feel like there is an open field for creativity"

Awareness and intent, empower passages.


ReplyQuote
einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 915
01/02/2009 11:54 pm  

This is shaping into an interesting thread ๐Ÿ™‚
I would be interested in hearing some more about your experiments.

Tiger: Yeah the content on Youtube concerning this is fascinating!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2pOHgoxTZA
The user description alone on that video gave me reading material to look up for a week ๐Ÿ™‚


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
02/02/2009 1:22 am  

good point Tiger


ReplyQuote
arthuremerson
(@arthuremerson)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 157
02/02/2009 1:41 am  

This apply?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS7CZIJVxFY


ReplyQuote
Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1503
02/02/2009 2:14 am  

This apply?

Awesome !
Well put together
yeah Page and Acoustic Sigilism and Thelemic ParticleWaveNon tendrils spiraled out in that one.

But I think it would fall under richMedia Aethiric seeping ionism.


ReplyQuote
Baxian
(@baxian)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 74
02/02/2009 9:29 am  

Etu_Malku

Would you explain what you mean by acoustic sigils?

Sound being preverbal,I suppose, is kind of abstract, more aliied to altered states and other-dimentional kinds of magic, but I don't currently see how an accoustic sigil with a guitar could be created. If thats what you meant.

So I would be curious about what you had in mind here.

Cheers.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
02/02/2009 10:18 am  

i use an analogue modular synthesiser to make sounds. i can conceive perhaps, of focusing intent whilst patching my synth, reaching some kind of an auditory climax, and then stopping the sound and tearing down the patch and forgetting about it. this sounds pretty similar to a visual sigil to me. if you recorded the sigil, then it could be played back at times of peak experience in order to reinforce it.

i'm going to have to give it a try now!


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
02/02/2009 3:10 pm  

It is indeed like a visual sigil but unlike a mantra
Though when combined with a visual sigil it is quite powerful
It would be interesting if Page used any of this with the ZOSO album (or any other albums of course) . . . there would be visual sigils combined with acoustic sigils within the songs.
What I am unsure of is if this type of sigilism could affect the listener or only the creator of the sigils?


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
02/02/2009 3:33 pm  

energy, vibration, waves, heisenberg's uncertainty principle, bell's theorum, the tao of physics, dude it all affects everything else.

i believe it is the intention and focus of the sigiliser that makes it happen, what then happens, and how it happens.

there's a lot to be learned from z'ev's rhythmajik in this case, i feel.

you'd have to ask jimmy himself to get the answer to your question.


ReplyQuote
wulfram
(@wulfram)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 137
02/02/2009 5:14 pm  

It has long been a theory of mine that Page's experiments in esoteric tunings were in fact a means to matching finger positions with sigil formations thus creating a magical rite through his musical expression.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0

ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
02/02/2009 11:40 pm  

It'snot that esoteric.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sonbfcBV7oA


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
03/02/2009 12:30 am  
"arthuremerson" wrote:

I love Tool, I've been hip to their occult based compositions since they came out . . . Danny has been know to frequent some of these better forums.

Fibonacci concept has always held my interest, in its highest aspect it is the Cymatic process unfolded and can be witnessed as the symmetry of our Universe.

Thank you for the link, very cool.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
03/02/2009 12:36 am  
"BlueKephra" wrote:

Tony sounds wonderful, I liked it very much. Though his open tuned, synth'd guitar piece and Tool's very cool Laterus really is not what Acoustic Sigilism is about.


ReplyQuote
lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 5304
03/02/2009 12:47 am  
"Etu_Malku" wrote:
really is not what Acoustic Sigilism is about.

But, just to confirm, "Acoustic Sigilism" is a term you invented, right?

So how can it be discussed here meaningfully without a clear definition provided by you?

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
03/02/2009 12:56 am  

It is a relatively new term that is being thrown around by those of us interested in taking musiq / sound / vibration towards a better spiritual understanding.
As a theory in progress I thought of no better forum to drum up insights and commentary from.

There is no clear definition as of yet.


ReplyQuote
lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 5304
03/02/2009 1:05 am  

Hmmm...

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
03/02/2009 1:41 am  

Paul: does "Hmmm ..." mean you will look into this and hopefully comment?


ReplyQuote
Baxian
(@baxian)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 74
03/02/2009 4:57 am  

I understand that sound can be used in various ways to cause trance: to bring about various brain wave states. But that does not seem to be sigil work as far as I can see.

Sigils, as far as I understand Spares methodolgy, have to do with the creation of a desire made more criptic to the conscious mind. Then "seeded" by means of various methods of Gnosis etc.

Mostly, sound for altering states is being talked of here, it seems.
Though mixing the two: sound and sigils, of course is open to much experiement. Probably a lot of fun.

I do however think that sound has more interesting uses, some of it discussed and linked to earlier, than for straight sigil work: like other dimentional experiements.
Cheers.


ReplyQuote
einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 915
03/02/2009 6:16 am  

I admit I am not at all a musician so my input is well below the technical prowess of the other posters here but I am fascinated by this idea. I don't see why the Tool song could not apply Etu_Malku. It seems to me that sigil work is intensely personal to the one creating the symbol. I donโ€™t think anyone can presume to know that the song is not more than a prog-rockers nod to the golden ratio. Who knows the artist's intent? For all we know the latest overproduced top 40 hit contains an intricate acoustic sigil to bind and maintain the status quo of evil and banality in pop culture ๐Ÿ˜› you never knowโ€ฆ
Perhaps we can all chime in with what the definition might be instead of having it "defined" for us. No offense Etu_Malku ๐Ÿ™‚
I would think that each person may have a slightly different take that could help the evolution of the idea into directions that one user may not have initially conceptualized.

I agree this is a gray area where a lot of the experimentation posted so far seems of more an "altered brainwave" variety as Baxian noted. Not many of the examples illustrate "acoustic sigils" as I originally imagined them. Personally my initial interpretation of "Acoustic Sigil" was the manipulation of frequencies, tunings, and harmonics that represented a specific aspiration to the user. Being just to the right of ignorant of music theory I was thinking in terms of tapeloops, frequencies, drones, even mantras generated with a reduction technique similar to Spare's. What if the sigil were a sonic piece generated while intently focused on the matter...
Could such an "acoustic sigil" be a track that one loops on an Ipod all day droning into the subconscious drowning its original intent? Other interesting possibilities come to mind when it comes to the packaging and distribution of your sigil/song... What power might it accumulate through the repeated playing by an untold number of uninvolved parties or if it were broadcast?
I am reminded of a record released as a "sigil" by a relatively popular "folk" band. Each song was intended to focus the intent of the record. It was essentially a big sigil on CD. I donโ€™t know if the sounds used had any meaning to the artist or if he simply made music while focusing on his desire but I imagine 1000 copies playing around the world might (depending on your belief in such things) have had an effect in charging the working. Then of course there is the work by Psychic TV in the 80s which would think constituted audio/visual sigils.

Cheers!
Scott


ReplyQuote
lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 5304
03/02/2009 8:25 am  
"Etu_Malku" wrote:
Paul: does "Hmmm ..." mean you will look into this and hopefully comment?

No, I shouldn't think so.

I suspect it's a term you've made up: I've no problem with that but, until you've provided a definition, it's all just herding cats.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
03/02/2009 9:27 am  
"Etu_Malku" wrote:
"BlueKephra" wrote:

Tony sounds wonderful, I liked it very much. Though his open tuned, synth'd guitar piece and Tool's very cool Laterus really is not what Acoustic Sigilism is about.

Yes I know, I posted that because the tuning that Tony most often uses (DADGAD) is one that Paige uses frequently too.
The closest thing to an audio sigil that I can think of is Coils album "Time Machines" which came with a set of tattwa stickers for concentrating on whilst tripping through the drones and tones. But really a sigil would have to be personally made and probably destroyed after use to be of any use.Or not recorded at all, like a mantra, sung once and forgotten forever....


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
03/02/2009 1:16 pm  

Ahhh, some people call it an "audio sigil"?

Scott: I suppose you're right, I really have no idea the intent behind any Tool song.

Baxion: As I see it, everything visual is the result of vibration anyway, so charging a visual sigil is actually charging the vibrations with intent, so wouldn't it be easier to work with sound?


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
03/02/2009 11:01 pm  
"Etu_Malku" wrote:
It is a relatively new term that is being thrown around by those of us interested in taking musiq / sound / vibration towards a better spiritual understanding.
As a theory in progress I thought of no better forum to drum up insights and commentary from.

There is no clear definition as of yet.

Given that the term 'acoustic' has been defined by Merriam-Webster et al, perhaps we might start by defining the specialist use of 'sigilism' when applied in this context? ๐Ÿ™‚

bazelek


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/02/2009 12:26 am  

Sigil is a symbol created for a specific magical purpose. A sigil is usually made up of a complex combination of several specific symbols or geometric figures each with a specific meaning or intent.

Acoustics or music acoustics is the branch of acoustics concerned with researching and describing the physics of music โ€” how sounds employed as music work. Examples of areas of study are the function of musical instruments, the human voice (the physics of speech and singing), computer analysis of melody.

An Acoustic Sigil is a sound creation that is charged with a statement of desire and would work upon the subconscious when heard.
Though what separates it from a mantra or anything like that, is that it is created by the same process that all sigils are created.

The combination of both aural and visual sigils would greatly affect the outcome.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/02/2009 12:32 am  

here's a great 'acoustic sigil'

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ULUxsor9G8o


ReplyQuote
Baxian
(@baxian)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 74
04/02/2009 3:58 am  

Etu_Malku

Sigil is a symbol created for a specific magical purpose. A sigil is usually made up of a complex combination of several specific symbols or geometric figures each with a specific meaning or intent.

OK, going from this definition of a sigil, I take it that you are employing visual elements in the music in some way: not only using sound.

An Acoustic Sigil is a sound creation that is charged with a statement of desire and would work upon the subconscious when heard.

Firstly, how would one charge the sound creation with a statement of intent?

You could make music to represent what you want. This would be the same as making any music, accept you begin with your conscious desire and right a song to it. The next thing following Spares ideas, would be to make it criptic to your conscious mind. You could use a cut up method.
Doing this on a computer might be easiest: you cant cut and past and stretch and change pitch of sounds and all sorts of things of course.

This could be parrellel to writing out the desire on paper.

Secondly, you would want to employ some kind of Gnosis: this is where you might employ some back ground music designed to alter consciousness into the theta or Delta brainwave states. The Soleggio scale may be useful, or some light and sound machine kind of thing.

The end part would be the forgetting.
Do something else straight after: get involved in another activity that takes your mind of of what you have been doing.
This is a ruff idea, thats all.

Cheers


ReplyQuote
Baxian
(@baxian)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 74
04/02/2009 4:03 am  

you cant cut and past...

I was mean to say you can cut and paste.
Obviously the Archons were trying to get in the way : / haha


ReplyQuote
einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 915
04/02/2009 4:35 am  

Baxian : obviously that wasnt a typo but the Third Mind ๐Ÿ˜‰


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/02/2009 9:37 am  
"Etu_Malku" wrote:
Sigil is a symbol created for a specific magical purpose. A sigil is usually made up of a complex combination of several specific symbols or geometric figures each with a specific meaning or intent.

Forgive me, but this isn't Spare's definition, yet we are suggesting using his methodology here. He is actually quite specific.

'Sigils are monograms of thought, for the government of energy' BoP p.50

and also

'Sigils are made by combining the letters of the alphabet simplified' BoP p.50

So far as I can see, the largest hurdle you have to overcome in constructing 'acoustic sigils' is making the leap from the raw material of letters (Spare's method) to the raw material of notes. After all, words have specific meaning, chords do not.

If you could attribute musical notes to graphic letters, you might have something... otherwise the intent you give the 'acoustic sigil' would need to be 'bolted on' afterwards - and this is a very different process from 'charging' I would say.

bazelek


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/02/2009 6:51 pm  
"bazelek" wrote:
"Etu_Malku" wrote:
Sigil is a symbol created for a specific magical purpose. A sigil is usually made up of a complex combination of several specific symbols or geometric figures each with a specific meaning or intent.

Forgive me, but this isn't Spare's definition, yet we are suggesting using his methodology here. He is actually quite specific.

'Sigils are monograms of thought, for the government of energy' BoP p.50

and also

'Sigils are made by combining the letters of the alphabet simplified' BoP p.50

So far as I can see, the largest hurdle you have to overcome in constructing 'acoustic sigils' is making the leap from the raw material of letters (Spare's method) to the raw material of notes. After all, words have specific meaning, chords do not.

If you could attribute musical notes to graphic letters, you might have something... otherwise the intent you give the 'acoustic sigil' would need to be 'bolted on' afterwards - and this is a very different process from 'charging' I would say.

bazelek

Spare's certainly isn't the only methodology. But in any case, I wonder to whom the sigil (of whatever form it takes) must have meaning? To the 'operator'? To the 'energy'? Or, is there a difference?


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/02/2009 10:07 pm  
"Camlion" wrote:
Spare's certainly isn't the only methodology. But in any case, I wonder to whom the sigil (of whatever form it takes) must have meaning? To the 'operator'? To the 'energy'? Or, is there a difference?

Noted, but Spare's method illuminates much. Surely anything created with 'specific intent' must have meaning to the 'operator'? Unless you can think of an exception? And if you are going to communicate a 'specific intent' words are jolly useful. In fact, it's fairly tricky to do it without using them, given they are the basis for articulated thought...

Anyway, I was simply responding to the request for workable ideas.

bazelek


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/02/2009 11:44 pm  

Again, the most obvious solution to this slight puzzle, seems to be the mantra. But the home made mantra. But maybe I'm just thick and am not "getting it".


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
05/02/2009 12:49 am  

I would say that audio sigils are much different than matram
I don't write a song with my desired intent, but rather small molecules of sound created by various methods and charged with my intention.
Fortunately, I find it easy to forget things quickly. . . LOL, but that aside, I play these on guitar and the sigils created and forgotten have become ostinato trancelike patterns that I would play.

This would be getting back to my original question concerning Page, I find certain harmonic groupings to be of such a strange feeling it made me thing that he may have done something similar.

Vibration has been magickally charged for aeons, Spare just brought it to the Western mind's attention. Ancient Egypt, the Middle East and certainly Hindustani culture has known this for a while.

Keep in mind that as Cymatics shows us clearly, vibration is the key to the Golden Mean, it is filtered down to our plane from the Primordial Vibration.
By combining the correct frequencies, scale temperment, the use of rhythmic trance and acoustic sigils, extremely powerful Chakra bending sounds can be created.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
05/02/2009 3:44 pm  
"bazelek" wrote:
Surely anything created with 'specific intent' must have meaning to the 'operator'? Unless you can think of an exception? And if you are going to communicate a 'specific intent' words are jolly useful. In fact, it's fairly tricky to do it without using them, given they are the basis for articulated thought...

Agreed. I suppose that a 'sigil' might take any sensory-received form capable of being 'read' or recognized or identified by the operator, including the olfactory, provided it expressed the idea/s intended. I'm still not certain why there ultimately need be more than one sigil per operator, from a Thelemic perspective, as I mentioned in another thread a while back, I think, but that's just me.


ReplyQuote
 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
05/02/2009 7:28 pm  

I'm not too learned in the area, but I've watched the videos of sand forming into various geometries on a plate upon intonement of various frequencies of vibration. Are you trying to classify these?

As far as Page's use of them during music, it is highly likely that at times his mind would dwell upon a certain sigil or symbol. This because it is a fairly common form of concentration. As to the question who does one's willed vibrations effect, the answer is the self, the other, and the entire universe.

What have been some of your experiments? I would think for instance the Hebrew alphabet would be a good place to start. Perhaps try to constantly imagine Tau for instance during an entire piece of music, and then see the way your playing changed, and what it sounded like.

As far as 3-D sigilism, I would point to the Cube of Space as a possible way to create standardized sigils in this regard.


ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 2
Share: