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lashtal
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24/05/2007 12:15 am  

October 1902: Crowley visits Cairo alone, staying at Shepheards Hotel.

November 1903: Crowley and Rose visit Cairo - spend the night in the Great Pyramid.

February 1904: Crowley and Rose return to Cairo, leading to the Cairo working.

May 1905: Crowley returns alone to Cairo...

Does anyone here have more detail on this fourth visit?

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lashtal
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24/05/2007 9:49 pm  

Crowley's fourth visit to Cairo, arriving on 23 May 1905, a little more than a year after the drama of the Cairo Working, receives just a brief mention in the Confessions (p 421) and no mention at all in several of the standard biographies.

The Temple of Solomon the King for this period fails to mention the visit at all:

For on April 27, 1905, one of the old comrades of his journeys in Central Asia sought him out, and proposed a new Expedition. Fra. P. gleefully accepted, and on May 6, having got together his kit, left his home, and sailed for India
on the 12th. His diary is henceforth barren of all interest to us.

What did AC do during this visit? Can anyone point me to the relevant diary or extracts from it?

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frater_cug
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24/05/2007 10:08 pm  

I happen to be reading Martin Booth's AC Bio, and it's mentioned in passing as one of the stops one his trip to kanchenjunga.

on page 203

Leaving Boleskine on 6 May with all his personal mountaineering equipment, Crowley embarked six days later upon the P&O passenger liner Marmora. He broke his voyage in Cairo, arriving in Bombay on 9 June....

Still not much info.


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Aleisterion
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24/05/2007 10:26 pm  

The May 1905 seems to have been a visit of no significance to him whatsoever, at the time at least...he demonstrated the same contempt for Aiwass that he clearly had for Rose, the messenger.


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lashtal
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24/05/2007 11:01 pm  
"Aleisterion" wrote:
The May 1905 seems to have been a visit of no significance to him whatsoever, at the time at least...he demonstrated the same contempt for Aiwass that he clearly had for Rose, the messenger.

With respect, I think the evidence would suggest that this "contempt" for the message is somewhat overstated by Crowley. We do know that on his return to Boleskine following the Working he and Rose undertook rituals based on its revisions, made cakes of light, sent dead beetles to the Museum of Natural History, etc.

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ianrons
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24/05/2007 11:16 pm  

That reminds me, I still haven't had a reply from the Natural History Museum regarding the alleged beetle, though I confess a complete lack of surprise. Does anyone here know one of the curators?


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 Anonymous
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25/05/2007 12:56 am  

The May 1905 seems to have been a visit of no significance to him whatsoever, at the time at least...he demonstrated the same cThe May 1905 seems to have been a visit of no significance to him whatsoever, at the time at least...he demonstrated the same contempt for Aiwass that he clearly had for Rose, the messenger.

Okay I won't go into everything I think about what was said here but I will tell you quite clearly that Crowley loved both Rose & Aiwass otherwise he would not have dedicated his life to expounding their teachings to him. I know as a Thelemite I give deep gratitude & thanks for them. I pray for their guidance in all that I think & do. But you have to understand the nature of a Bodhisattva which is what Crowley is. A Bodhisattva is not going to hold your hand & tell you everything is going to be alright when he is trying to liberate your mind. There is such a thing as "Tough Love" & Crowley was a Master at giving out the Tough Love a lot of people need in order to find liberation. A Zen Master will come around with a large stick & hit his students with it. Crowley often did this type of thing to his students. You must be able to get past your Little Ego if your ever going to be a Great Magician or true Thelemite.


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tony
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25/05/2007 1:10 am  

Re: the May/05: I wonder if Cairo was perhaps simply a transportation hub in those days? Any indication he left the station, stayed at Shepheards, did the town or any avatars, etc?


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lashtal
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25/05/2007 1:11 am  

I know as a Thelemite I give deep gratitude & thanks for them. I pray for their guidance in all that I think & do.

I appreciate what you're saying here, although it seems that you've misunderstood what this thread is about. It is intended to prompt research into some activities undertaken by Aleister Crowley on a strictly biographical basis. Whether or not you "pray for their guidance" is neither here nor there, to be frank.

Welcome to the site, though!

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Aleisterion
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25/05/2007 1:13 am  

Okay...well, "horus_crow_pan", thanks for "straightening me out". Surely I am a sinner and am in need of penitence. Sorry, I just don't consider Crowley to have been perfect, and certainly, his treatment of women was by no means "tough love" -- in fact it was downright negligent. Facts speak for themselves and Crowley was "ill" not only in Aiwass' stated opinion but in fact. This does not in any way detract from the importance or grandeur of The Book of the Law, any more than it would if the book were a colossal Crowleyan joke: the book stands on its own merits, in all kinds of ways. But I shall try very hard to be a "true Thelemite" in spite of my blasphemy. 🙂


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Aleisterion
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25/05/2007 1:15 am  

Sorry for drifting somewhat off-topic here...


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lashtal
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25/05/2007 1:17 am  
"tony" wrote:
Re: the May/05: I wonder if Cairo was perhaps simply a transportation hub in those days? Any indication he left the station, stayed at Shepheards, did the town or any avatars, etc?

The Confessions quote shows that it was more than that - and Symonds surmises that Crowley spent time in the "Fish Market", red light district.

My own suspicion is that he did rather more than the Confessions suggests, but I'm looking for some facts here.

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amadan-De
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25/05/2007 6:44 am  

That reminds me, I still haven't had a reply from the Natural History Museum regarding the alleged beetle, though I confess a complete lack of surprise. Does anyone here know one of the curators?

I know a couple - not Insects but I may be able to make a connection. What is the specific question? PM me with it and I'll see what I can do.


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ianrons
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25/05/2007 2:27 pm  

Thanks! PM sent.


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 Anonymous
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25/05/2007 8:10 pm  

I could find nothing referencing this fourth stop in Laurence Sultin's biography either ?


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lashtal
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25/05/2007 8:26 pm  

Exactly!

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 Anonymous
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25/05/2007 9:07 pm  

What do you expect he did on this visit? Isnt it possible he did nothing interesting at all?


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lashtal
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25/05/2007 9:25 pm  

That's certainly a possibility. I have my suspicions, but was hoping someone might be able to fill in the gaps in my knowledge regarding this brief period of Crowley's life...

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OKontrair
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21/07/2007 11:58 pm  

The poem Said (Works III, p94) commemorates 'my week in Cairo' and as he was there for more than a week previously then this is the occasion we're talking about here. He seems to be floating down the Nile with a lover referred to as 'he'. It was very hot (which he also remarks on when crossing the Red Sea when he slept on deck and was impressed by the planet Jupiter.)

Not much to go on but many a mickle mak's a muckle.

All this from Confessions which I'm rereading at present looking for other stuff.

OK


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 Anonymous
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19/11/2007 8:49 pm  

Crowley seems to have continued with a different ship to Bombay. His week in Cairo gave him cold feet, he realized that he had embarked on the Kangchenjunga expedition in a hasty manner and sent a letter from Port Said to Jacot-Guillarmod pleading sickness and asking for the expedition to be postponed until the following year. Guillarmod refused, stating that he had already spent too much money (Cf. Guillarmod's private diary)
Apart from this I do not know what he was up to.


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the_real_simon_iff
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23/09/2009 3:42 pm  

93!

A fifth Cairo visit?

I am just typing in the Augeoides Workings for 1906 into the Timeline and stumble across this entry for June 8, 1906 (he had just arrived on June 2nd in Liverpool from his trip through Asia and the Aiwass Workings with Elaine Simpson which told him to go to Egypt with the Scarlet Woman - Rose at this time) when he was in Plymouth, where he had arrived the day before: "June 8th. Joined Rose on the S.S.Himalaya. As I supposed I broke down a good deal." What was he doing on that boat? Rose had already arrived on May 3rd from Asia, so he probably did not pick her up. The S.S.Himalaya to my knowledge went to India or Australia via the Suez Channel, making Port Said of course a possible place to disembark. For the next weeks the only diary entries are the very short descriptions of his Augeoides Rituals. The next location given is London on July 30. The next persons mentioned are Frater V.N. (George Cecil Jones) on the 23rd of June (15 days later) and one Mr. Jenner-Fust on July 11th. Anybody has more information what he was doing on the S.S.Himalaya?

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belmurru
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11/03/2014 5:04 pm  
"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
A fifth Cairo visit?

I am just typing in the Augeoides Workings for 1906 into the Timeline and stumble across this entry for June 8, 1906 (he had just arrived on June 2nd in Liverpool from his trip through Asia and the Aiwass Workings with Elaine Simpson which told him to go to Egypt with the Scarlet Woman - Rose at this time) when he was in Plymouth, where he had arrived the day before: "June 8th. Joined Rose on the S.S.Himalaya. As I supposed I broke down a good deal." What was he doing on that boat? Rose had already arrived on May 3rd from Asia, so he probably did not pick her up. The S.S.Himalaya to my knowledge went to India or Australia via the Suez Channel, making Port Said of course a possible place to disembark. For the next weeks the only diary entries are the very short descriptions of his Augeoides Rituals. The next location given is London on July 30. The next persons mentioned are Frater V.N. (George Cecil Jones) on the 23rd of June (15 days later) and one Mr. Jenner-Fust on July 11th. Anybody has more information what he was doing on the S.S.Himalaya?

I don't know what he might have been doing on the ship, but it is listed as at (Port of) London (Royal Albert Docks) on June 9 of that year (from the report of the Medical Officer of Health for the Port of London, cases of measles) -


http://wellcomelibrary.org/moh/report/b19884254/46#?asi=0&ai=46&z=-0.0465%2C0.0115%2C1.11%2C0.4765

I can'f find the exact schedule for that ship; perhaps it was docked at Plymouth and they had dinner on board? Or we could take Motta's interpretation that it was a metaphor for the Kanchenjunga disaster as Lilith disaster.

Baedeker's guide to Egypt for 1902 says that P&O steamers (Himalaya a P&O ship http://www.poheritage.com/Content/Mimsy/Media/factsheet/93308HIMALAYA-1892pdf.pdf ) leave London "every Thursday, Friday or Saturday, via Gibraltar (or Malta) and Marseilles, in 12 days to Port Sa'id"; the 1908 edition mentions only Friday, and the journey is now 11 days (there were no other Baedeker's for Egypt between the 1902 and 1908 editions). In 1906, June 8 was a Friday, but if the ship were in London on June 9, and if it left on the same day (hardly likely, given that it had to be decontaminated, but let's go with the tighest scenario), then that would put Port Sa'id on about the 20th of June at the earliest.

Can we really believe that he (and Rose) rushed off to Egypt in that emotional state, or that Crowley rushed off alone? The diary, in either version, doesn't seem to support it. And he couldn't have been back in Plymouth or London by the 23rd of June if he were in Egypt, so we'd have to assume that Jones was on the same boat, since if he left a week later (by the schedule), he couldn't have been there on time. If he took boat across the channel, then a train, and then a boat from Marseille, it would still be at least 8 days (1 day plus 3 days train plus 4 days from Marseille to Port Sa'id, then 5 hours by train to Cairo...). And the entry for the 24th still has him contemplating the possibility of a Great Magical Retirement - which would be odd if he were on one!

It seems a bit of a dodgy scenario to be toying with, all around.

Update -

Here's the proof that Himalaya WAS docked at Plymouth on Friday, 8 June -

From the Sydney Morning Herald for June 12, 1906, shipping notices (page 8)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/14778524

If that link doesn't work, I googled keywords "sydney himalaya 1906 london june" (not in quotation marks, just the bare words). I added "sydney" because the Australian papers are often online, and because that is the destination/departure point of the ship.


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belmurru
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11/03/2014 7:23 pm  
"belmurru" wrote:
From the Sydney Morning Herald for June 12, 1906, shipping notices (page 8)

Apologies for the sunglasses. I meant "(page 8 )" - obviously taken as a smiley code without a space between the 8 and parenthesis.


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jamie barter
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12/03/2014 12:11 pm  
"belmurru" wrote:
"belmurru" wrote:
From the Sydney Morning Herald for June 12, 1906, shipping notices (page 8)

Apologies for the sunglasses. I meant "(page 8 )" - obviously taken as a smiley code without a space between the 8 and parenthesis.

I’ve also noticed that happening whenever I type an 8 followed by a close brackets – and we can’t be the only ones to have found that phenomenon occurring.  Is there no way that the techno boffins would be able to rectify this from always taking place?!

I’ve nothing to add on your impeccable scholarship re the historical matters of the Cairo dockings, etc, incidentally; the nearest I’ve come to Egyptian shipping forecasts would be listening to a weather report about the “Faeroes” on Radio 4!

[groan :-[ ; terrible pun I know…]
Norma N Joy Conquest


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lashtal
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12/03/2014 12:35 pm  
"jamie barter" wrote:
I’ve also noticed that happening whenever I type an 8 followed by a close brackets – and we can’t be the only ones to have found that phenomenon occurring.  Is there no way that the techno boffins would be able to rectify this from always taking place?!

Only by switching off the smilies. Easily done...

"jamie barter" wrote:
[groan :-[ ; terrible pun I know…]

... but I sense you wouldn't want that!

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belmurru
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13/03/2014 3:35 pm  
"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
Anybody has more information what he was doing on the S.S.Himalaya?

Having thought about and researched the question as much as a I can up to this point, I would theorize that he and Rose took Himalaya on to London, where Crowley had probably booked a hotel. 

I reason from the following:

Crowley was staying in London from 2 to 7 June, and saw Tristan and Isolde on Wednesday, June 6. When we look for when this was performed in London in that year, we find that it was performed as part of the regular repertory at the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, and around the corner at Drury Lane.

See Stewart Spencer, “Tristan und Isolde in Great Britain”, in wagnerspectrum (Würzburg; Verlag Königshausen & Neumann GmbH, 2005), pp. 145-163:

“By the early 1890s Tristan und Isolde had established itself as a staple of the repertory and there were few seasons between now and the outbreak of war in 1914 when it was not performed.” (p. 153)

http://books.google.fr/books?id=PJ2A_0LNP1YC&printsec=frontcover&hl=fr#v=onepage&q&f=false

After the opera, Crowley also reports doing the Augoeides invocation “in the streets”, which might suggest he was staying nearby, within walking distance of the theatre.

The Himalaya was coming to port in London after departing Sydney on 25 April, arrived in Plymouth on 8 June, and seems to have arrived in London on 9 June, (the distance between the Plymouth and London ports is 350 nautical miles, so the trip would take about 23 hours at average speed of 15 knots (P&O’s sheet gives 18 knots (cruising? or top?) in 1892)).

The main question that remains for me is that, since they obviously preferred the boat to the train, where was Rose staying that he met her in Plymouth? She must have been nearby, or it would not have made sense for him to take the 5 ½ hour train ride from London to Plymouth to meet her. If she were in Scotland, it would have been just as easy for her, or easier, to come straight to London. She could not have already been on Himalaya, since Plymouth was its first British port.


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belmurru
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13/03/2014 7:00 pm  
"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
Rose had already arrived on May 3rd from Asia, so he probably did not pick her up.

I didn't take note of my ignorance before, but how do we know this arrival date for Rose (and where?).

If we don't know, is it possible that she had been delayed, in Rangoon presumably, and had to take a different itinerary home than that planned, one that ended up with her on Himalaya in Plymouth on 8 June?

But if so, why didn't Aleister just wait for her to arrive in London?


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belmurru
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14/03/2014 9:46 am  

Churton (p. 121) says "Little Lilith, less than two years old, had died of typhoid at Rangoon on May Day."

Since May Day is 1 May, and assuming Rose was in Rangoon with her when she died, it is absolutely impossible that she arrived in the UK on 3 May.

Is Churton wrong?

This timeline suggests that Rose was in Rangoon for at least two weeks (journey from Hong Kong to Rangoon about 12 days). After Lilith's death, she had to go on to Calcutta, and then on to London. If so, then she could well have joined the Himalaya on May 18 in Colombo, which is why Aleister had to meet her on this ship in Plymouth. He didn't wait for her to arrive in London, because he wanted to be there for her the minute she arrived in port in the UK.


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the_real_simon_iff
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14/03/2014 1:19 pm  

93, belmurru!

I can't remember where I found the information so I cannot check if I am wrong. But I assume I am wrong. Hope to join the thread next week, it's quite stressy here currently...

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