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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
25/04/2008 6:17 pm  

I would think the conversation centers around the conversation. You then subject it to your interpretation, in an attempt to individually become aware of what the conversation is about. The conversation being an object, your interpretation the subject of its meaning.

While the interpretation or perception is derived from you, is the interpretation/perception you? It seems like a confusion of the cause for the effect.

I suppose if you were fully aware of who this "me" is, you could claim the conversation is all about "me." While you are you, and I am me ; to you, you are me and I am you.

In the end making the conversation about you, about me. Vice versa, ad infinitum, nausea.

That last line was just an attempt to make me look smart. I know I was fooled...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
25/04/2008 7:01 pm  
"Uni_Verse" wrote:
I would think the conversation centers around the conversation. You then subject it to your interpretation, in an attempt to individually become aware of what the conversation is about. The conversation being an object, your interpretation the subject of its meaning.

While the interpretation or perception is derived from you, is the interpretation/perception you? It seems like a confusion of the cause for the effect.

I suppose if you were fully aware of who this "me" is, you could claim the conversation is all about "me." While you are you, and I am me ; to you, you are me and I am you.

In the end making the conversation about you, about me. Vice versa, ad infinitum, nausea.

That last line was just an attempt to make me look smart. I know I was fooled...

HELP! We have stumbled into deep waters. First of all, there is no "me" or "you." There are nexuses of memories, sense perceptions, and a network of synaptic neuronal connections more numerous than the number of the particles in the entire universe contained in every human brain. (Although I find that hard to believe about some people who appear to have almost none πŸ™‚ ) This nexus forms a "self-perception" stronger in some folks than others. That self-perception with it's "name" (or many names, with many socks, in my case) is the filter which through all discourse runs. As we converse, every word goes through our filter and rouses one's peculiar (and in my case, VERY PECULIAR) neuron path reactions, word impressions, and any thing else imaginable, all subjected to the "color" ("flavor", "taste", "feeling, "meanings", "emotions", etc.) that your particular nexus imparts. Hence while one can be firmly lodged in the Eternal, (a state of understanding, appreciation, adaptation, and response to ultimate reality) one's sense of what that means, and every attempt to "communicate" with others will be mostly inseparable from one's "self."

For instance, I have been told in moments throughout my life that I am the most "selfish", "self-centered", "all-about-me" motherfucker they've (parents, family, friends, strangers, etc.) ever met. I tended to agree with them and didn't know what to do about it. (In the long run, I decided I liked it and didn't do anything about it!) At eighteen when Lulu told me about Crowley being my grandfather, and I did a little research, I realized that I was the second most selfish, self-centered, all-about-me motherfucker that ever lived.

An example: I love to share. This would appear to contradict my selfishness. However, after analysis, (not Freudian - self) I've come to the conclusion that I love to share because it gives me a way to escape the state of different consciousness embodied by my enlodgement in the Eternal. That state is dangerous to my physical body because it tends to preclude eating, bathing, and all the mundanities of working in the "real" world. I have chosen to fulfill the life of this body in this illusionary world of subjective impressions coming through my senses. Hence I have chosen to relish the physical world of socks, women, words, music, and everything else for the 58-108 (58 years proven - the rest is guesswork) years that "I" (this body) will be around. I even take steps to preserve this body and make it last longer. (Of course, I also do lots of things to fuck it up completely, not really giving that much of a damn) πŸ™‚ So I "share" in order to keep "me" alive! (Want to buy a CD?) Hence, my total immersion in my "self" which, ironically, led me to my discovery of my enlodgement in the Eternal, where my "self" is somewhat irrelevant.

YT 93 Love & Ecstasee, Babee!

Eric


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
25/04/2008 9:25 pm  

93 Eric,

"themuhler" wrote:
For instance, I have been told in moments throughout my life that I am the most "selfish", "self-centered", "all-about-me" motherfucker they've (parents, family, friends, strangers, etc.) ever met. I tended to agree with them and didn't know what to do about it. (In the long run, I decided I liked it and didn't do anything about it!) At eighteen when Lulu told me about Crowley being my grandfather, and I did a little research, I realized that I was the second most selfish, self-centered, all-about-me motherfucker that ever lived.

Perhaps it's true that the apples really don't fall that far from the tree? πŸ˜‰

93 93/93
Camlion


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
25/04/2008 10:27 pm  
"Camlion" wrote:
Perhaps it's true that the apples really don't fall that far from the tree? πŸ˜‰

Surely every post Eric has made so far demonstrates that very clearly? It is the kind of dissent towards orthodoxy that Crowley relished. If his criticisms of AC and Thelema provoke discomfort, then you can begin to grasp what it must have been like for the original proselytes... πŸ˜‰


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
26/04/2008 5:55 am  

Hi eric and 93,

It's a great honor to meet you. I thought I'd drop in and say hello after reading all your mule names. I know about Mule Variations having recorded an album of that name with Tom Waits.

Your last post where you said, " Hence, my total immersion in my "self" which, ironically, led me to my discovery of my enlodgement in the Eternal, where my "self" is somewhat irrelevant. "

strongly suggests the uniting of the microcosm with the macrocosm, what Magicians call 5=6, which was a very significant aspect of your Grandfather's occult ( as in hidden) work.

My name is Oz Fritz. Using avatars is something I picked up from online gaming. One effect that has is to help separate and see, yourself, your normal personality, as a character being played by something at another level - your deep or essential self. What John Lilly called the meta-programmer.

Warm regards,
Oz


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
26/04/2008 8:38 am  
"bazelek" wrote:
"Camlion" wrote:
Perhaps it's true that the apples really don't fall that far from the tree? πŸ˜‰

Surely every post Eric has made so far demonstrates that very clearly? It is the kind of dissent towards orthodoxy that Crowley relished. If his criticisms of AC and Thelema provoke discomfort, then you can begin to grasp what it must have been like for the original proselytes... πŸ˜‰

Sorry if I sounded critical of Thelema. I'm just not into Occultism, and hooka ma jooka, demons, astrology, tarot, and all that stuff. I have a quite personal, unstudied concept of Magick and the "do your true will" part fit me to a T since long before I ever heard of Crowley (1968) As for Crowley, it seems that most Thelemites have reconciled themselves to the basically unarguable facts that Crowley was a shit head. Just a rotten human being, basically. I have a wonderful story from my Grandmother Ninette: Wanna hear it? If not, stop reading here.

I went to France in 1974 to meet my mysterious grandmother Ninette for the first time. I was 23 years old. We met in the lobby of her Catholic retirement home, where, in total irony, due to her complete loathing of all things Catholic, she lived out her years to the age of 94. She offered to take me to her room for coffee and cookies. As we walked down the long hallway toward her room she asked me "I suppose you have come to ask me questions about your Grandfather Crowley?"
"Yes" I replied.
"He was one of the greatest human geniuses to ever live." she began.
"He was a chess master who could beat most of the master's in London. He was an extraordinary mountaineer, with hundreds of first ascents and the first climbs in the Himalaya. He was a poet, essayist, novelist, and writer of great depth and range. He was an occult magus who radiated intelligence and knowledge in everything he did. He was a God Man in the tradition of Jesus Christ, the Buddha, and Lao Tzu, and he was the rottenest son-of-a-bitch I ever met!"

During our conversation over the course of that afternoon Ninette told me many tales of the hashish and opium festivals they held at Cefalu, and that it was just a matter of time before those, (like herself) that weren't insane when they got there (most were) were all completely nuts before it all fell apart. Still, she remained convinced that The Book of the Law was a "sacred" text and that she knew it's entirety by memory throughout her life. She kept a daily Magickal Diary which she scrupulously burned every year. I begged her to save them and leave them for us to read after her death, but she refused and destroyed them all.

I spent another day with Ninette in 1988 while on my honeymoon in France. We had a marvelous auto trip to her home town of Cransac (sp?) and went to view the "decouvert" the huge coal strip mine near her town. On that trip, my Aunt Jeanette, a retired Catholic nun, was along (yet another potent irony for poor Ninette to have to swallow) (it's a separate story of how the Nazis chased poor Jeanette into a convent) so Ninette wasn't giving up any Crowley tales, as Jeanette didn't know much of anything about Cefalu, (she was only two or three when they left for France, starving, half mad, shoeless, and wild as the wind) wasn't a Crowley kid, (actually the landlord's) (yet another story) and would have freaked hard if she knew where her mother had come from. She knew it was bad, but not HOW bad!

Anybow, as I said, sorry if I seemed like I was dissing Thelema. I consider myself an unschooled, unjoined, unconsidered, non-member of anything, Atheist Thelemite. "There is nothing of me that IS of the Gods" don't you know! I come from something much sterner; a careless, mindless, unintelligent, thoughtless, magnificently beautiful, endlessly creative Universe of Eternity. It took me a lot of hard work using all the "intelligence" I had to figure out how marvelously stupid AND ignorant I truly am. Humbling actually, but I worked at it so hard for so long, I still kind of dig my dumb-ass self!

YT 93 Love & Ecstasee, Babee!

Eric

P.S. In my case it is the nut that didn't fall far from the nut tree...


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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26/04/2008 10:55 pm  

Wonderful!

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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phthah
(@phthah)
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Posts: 210
28/04/2008 5:04 am  

93,

"themuhler" wrote:
"He was one of the greatest human geniuses to ever live." she began.
"He was a chess master who could beat most of the master's in London. He was an extraordinary mountaineer, with hundreds of first ascents and the first climbs in the Himalaya. He was a poet, essayist, novelist, and writer of great depth and range. He was an occult magus who radiated intelligence and knowledge in everything he did. He was a God Man in the tradition of Jesus Christ, the Buddha, and Lao Tzu, and he was the rottenest son-of-a-bitch I ever met!"
During our conversation over the course of that afternoon Ninette told me many tales of the hashish and opium festivals they held at Cefalu

πŸ˜€ Wow! Wonderful indeed! Hi Eric, it is a pleasure to meet you here at LAShTAL. Clearly your Grandmother was a remarkable and intelligent person. In those few sentences she was able to give you a great description of A.C. Yes, he was all those things and more, including no doubt, being a "rotton son-of-a-bitch" to some. You mention "many tales of hashish and opium" etc. Would you care to elaborate further on your conversation over the course of that afternoon with Ninnette? BTW, thank you so much for posting the photographs of Ninnette here. It is greatly appreciated.

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
28/04/2008 6:36 am  
"phthah" wrote:
93,

"themuhler" wrote:
"Would you care to elaborate further on your conversation over the course of that afternoon with Ninnette?

Actually it was one extended descriptive tale of how the regular eating of hashish "fingers" and smoking of opium during Magick rituals and ceremonies led to her own insanity and during that conversation she mentioned and gave strong impressions of "other members" who seemed to her to be nuts before they ever got there. She didn't mention names, and didn't talk about the Magick involved. My impression was that she was trying to warn me about drug use, (during those years it was pretty obvious that I had taken that taxi around that block a few times too many myself) and that the potent combination of drug use, crazy people, occult practices, starvation, abandonment and four children took a serious toll on her, resulting in her losing all her children, going to an asylum in Switzerland to recover her shattered nerves. Other than the keeping of her Diary, she never practiced another "ritual" again.

After recuperation she lived as the housekeeper and caretaker for an older brother Gustave Fraux in Brittany, France until he died. She took over the house and lived there alone until her daughter Jeanette got her into the retirement home in Montredon mentioned in a previous post. She died there in the early nineties after my second trip to meet with her in 1988.

YT 93 Love & Ecstasee, Babee!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
28/04/2008 9:50 am  
"themuhler" wrote:
Thanks! By the way, you can call me Eric. I've noticed that nobody on this lashtal thing seems to use their names. Is there a reason for that? It's sort of discombobulating to be talking to people and one has no concept of who one is talking to. I'm very new to this web site chatting thing or blogging or whatever people call it. Is one supposed to be anonymous?

93 Eric,

Never imagined I'd see you on the Thelemic internets... what, you got too much free time on your hands now? We ain't traded no emails for months now... Welcome to the Monkey House that is lashtal.com

Chillin wit you in the Cool Kids' Room was one of the high points of NOTOCON for me. You gotta come to the next one; it's rumored to be in Seattle.

I'll be in your neck of the woods this fall; we need to grab a drink or five.

Keep jammin'

93, 93/93
Zack


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
28/04/2008 4:29 pm  
"ihateswine" wrote:
what, you got too much free time on your hands now? Welcome to the Monkey House that is lashtal.com

Keep jammin'

93, 93/93
Zack

Hello Zack,

Free time is my specialty! I thought you knew that. It's what I work so hard (NOT) for! Be sure to call when in the BA. I always want to hear from the only person who frightened me at NOTOCON!

YT 93, Love & Ecstasee, Babee!
Pal Mule


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phthah
(@phthah)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 210
28/04/2008 7:19 pm  

93 Eric,

"themuhler" wrote:
Actually it was one extended descriptive tale of how the regular eating of hashish "fingers" and smoking of opium during Magick rituals and ceremonies led to her own insanity

As I said, I think she was a remarkable lady. If for no other reason than the fact that she survived Cefalu! Anyway, thanks for the follow up.

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
28/04/2008 10:58 pm  
"themuhler" wrote:
Hello Zack,

Free time is my specialty! I thought you knew that. It's what I work so hard (NOT) for! Be sure to call when in the BA. I always want to hear from the only person who frightened me at NOTOCON!

YT 93, Love & Ecstasee, Babee!
Pal Mule

LOL yeah. HB was like, "you scared the hell out of my drummer".

bwahahaha.

See ya around Bro,
Zack


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
29/04/2008 2:19 am  
"ihateswine" wrote:
. HB was like, "you scared the hell out of my drummer".

Zack

I'm a pianist. But you knew that.

Eric


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
29/04/2008 2:20 am  
"ihateswine" wrote:
. HB was like, "you scared the hell out of my drummer".

Zack

I'm a pianist. But you knew that.

Eric


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
29/04/2008 2:34 am  
"themuhler" wrote:
"ihateswine" wrote:
. HB was like, "you scared the hell out of my drummer".

Zack

I'm a pianist. But you knew that.

Eric

Now see what becomes of hashish and opium parties?

Brain on Drugs.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
04/05/2008 7:21 pm  

wonderful pictures of Ninette. She turned out to be a true survivor indeed. Thank you so much Mr. Muhler!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
05/05/2008 11:40 am  

According to John Symonds’ biography of Aleister Crowley (The Beast 666) published in 1997 Ninette Shumway died around 1930 (p.453). From the pictures uploaded by Mr Muhler, this was clearly not the case.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
05/05/2008 5:41 pm  

It also stated that Leah had died in the 50's when it has been conformed, I tihnk, that she died in 1975 in Switzerland.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
05/05/2008 9:31 pm  

Just to labour the point a little further, Martin Booth’s biography of Aleister Crowley (A Magick Life) published in 2000 also stated that Ninette died in the early 1930’s (p 414).
I wonder what evidence these biographers used when making such claims. Perhaps in this case they just relied on hearsay.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
06/05/2008 1:45 pm  

I imagine that when someone vanishs from the scene rumor says that they passed on. I guess if every Crowley biographer thoroughly researched the lives of all of Crowley's deciples it would take a lifetime.


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
Member
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Posts: 1836
06/05/2008 4:44 pm  

93!
And please don't forget: Any surviving, sane and healthy lover of Crowley would destroy the often preferred image of "all his lovers committed suicide, went insane or died as alcoholics/druggies"... so maybe some biographers were not so eager to find out more...
Love=Law
Lutz


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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06/05/2008 5:16 pm  

You know what, Lutz? I think you've got it right there. An ex-partner of Crowley living to a healthy and happy old age isn't particularly good for publicity...

Having said that, there is at least some evidence that Symonds, in particular, felt the need to protect the identity of at least one of Crowley's ladies: he disguised Leah's name behind a pseudonym in the first editions of his biography.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/05/2008 3:31 pm  
"lashtal" wrote:
You know what, Lutz? I think you've got it right there. An ex-partner of Crowley living to a healthy and happy old age isn't particularly good for publicity...

This also brings to mind Rose's "downfall," which many point to AL III:43 as a prophecy fulfilled. But isn't there evidence that she had at least a few good years of post-asylum recovery (and even remarriage)?

I think there's another thread about this somewhere, but I can't find it.

Steve


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
10/05/2008 11:21 pm  

It is quite the honor to be introduced to you, Mr. Muhler. I have heard many a wonderful thing about you from many a person here at the Sekhet-Maat Lodge here in Portland when they met you at NOTOCON. It's truly a pleasure to have you here on the board.

On this somewhat similar note, is anyone reading this thread at all familiar with a grandson by the name of Richard Blackwell? He came to a local pagan shop here in town claiming to be a grandson of Crowley's himself, and looking to sell the two owners his line of essential oils as a product that the store now regularly carries, which I've used, and are not bad in their own right. Yet, a Google search turns up nothing on him, save for information regarding a fashion critic by the same name, which is not the same Richard Blackwell I'm speaking of. According to the storekeeper, he authored at least one occult book (who's name escapes me, though I saw her personal autographed copy there in the store) before closing up the occult shop he owned for a time here in Portland, Oregon, has since converted to Buddhism, and is either in the process of moving overseas or has already done so. That, however, is all the information I have on him, and none of it truly speaks to whether he was a grandson of Crowley's or not. Can anyone on the board vouch for whether he was a grandson of Crowley's or not?

Stephanie


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
11/05/2008 12:10 am  

THE CROWLEY PERFUMES:
The beloved recursant of the Aquarian Age, and immanent scholar of tantric lore, "Saint Aleister" Crowley did dabble extensively in perfumery. Using musks and other sexually active fragrances available in his day, he created the following magickal-sexual perfumes, made from exclusive formulas handed down from Winnifred Otis-White, one of his "Scarlet Women", to Dr. Richard Blackwell, professional perfumer, and grandson of her and Crowley, and presented here:

http://www.cranemoon.com/descript.htm

----
Never heard of Winnifred Otis-White, much less Richard Blackwell.

Crowley dabbled in... perfumery?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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11/05/2008 12:32 am  

Never heard of Winnifred Otis-White, much less Richard Blackwell.

Crowley dabbled in... perfumery?

Hahaha....

Weeellll....

He dabbled (more than dabbled, really!) in art and poetry, too, two fairly romantic art forms in their own right....so why not? Then again, a great many of the oils mentioned on the site are created for the sake of having a rather great time with the gender of your choice, and he certainly was known for that! πŸ˜‰

Interestingly, the line of oils carried in the store that are made by him are a line called "Red Dragon" essential oils, not Crane Moon . All of them are simply your basic essential oils, with no claims made to get one laid or do anything else, for that matter! Still, though, I've found some rather unusual oils in the line that denote to me that he does, at least on some level, know what he's doing....I came across galangal oil the other day when I went to the store seeking ingredients for Abramelin Oil that I was making. Perhaps he carries two different lines of oils? Hard to say...

And I would be curious to learn more about Winnifred Otis-White. I'll do some searching for her, and see what I can come up with

Stephanie


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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11/05/2008 12:54 am  
"h2h" wrote:
Crowley dabbled in... perfumery?

Ruthvah.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
14/05/2008 6:16 am  

A PERFUME salesman? Now I've heard it all... Some people have (rarely) said my music stinks, but I've never sold perfume, thank nature.

YT 93, Love & Ecstasee, Babee

Eric


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
14/05/2008 4:26 pm  

93

It is perhaps worth noting that perfumery is one of many arts that grew out of alchemy, and this approach is still carried out by Black Phoenix Alchemy Labs. who include Β£hemetic alchemy" as one of their inspirations.

Please note that this is NOT a plug, all i know of them is that their perfumes are amazing and a cult on the internet, where collections of their tiny samplet bottles sell for considerable amounts on ebay!

http://www.blackphoenixalchemylab.com/

So less astoshment that Crowley dablled in perfumery, please!

93 93/93

Steve W


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
14/05/2008 5:44 pm  

Dabbing it on profusely is not the same as dabbling in perfumery.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
15/05/2008 6:00 am  
"sethur666" wrote:
So less astoshment that Crowley dablled in perfumery, please!

93 93/93

Steve W

Actually I wasn't astoshed at all that Crowley dablled, diblled, mastered or participated in perfumeration. I was astoshed that the grandson claimant was a perfume salesman.

Eric

YT 93, Love & Ecstasee, Babee! (No alchemee or perfumee, though thanks, no matter how astoshing it might be)


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
12/06/2011 8:14 am  

Hello,

sorry to intrude to a "closed" topic after all those years, but anyone has an idea if Crowley had any descendants currently living in the area of the Czech Republic? I have some valid reasons why I'm asking this right now. Anyone has some kind of pedigree or whatever available? I've stumbled upon some pages, unfortunately they give 404 error now. Thanks very much in advance! It would be greatly appreciated.

C.

P.S. Possible grand-whatever-daughter.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
13/06/2011 5:03 am  

What are your "valid reasons"? Are you claiming to possibly be his "grand-whatever-daughter"? IF you turned out to be related to A.C. would it make you feel "special", like there is some hereditary link to the Current? Well, it doesn't really work that way...

"CalypsoStarlight" wrote:
Anyone has some kind of pedigree or whatever available?

A.C. is not like some puppy with registration papers...

πŸ™„


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stanforda
(@stanforda)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 112
13/06/2011 12:02 pm  
"CalypsoStarlight" wrote:
Hello,
I've stumbled upon some pages, unfortunately they give 404 error now. Thanks very much in advance! It would be greatly appreciated.

C.

P.S. Possible grand-whatever-daughter.

Unbelievable,...
Who are these people that keep trying to infect LAShTAL?


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William Thirteen
(@williamthirteen)
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Posts: 1090
13/06/2011 12:42 pm  

centres of pestilence, no doubt...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
17/06/2011 6:13 pm  
"N.O.X" wrote:
What are your "valid reasons"? Are you claiming to possibly be his "grand-whatever-daughter"? IF you turned out to be related to A.C. would it make you feel "special", like there is some hereditary link to the Current? Well, it doesn't really work that way...

"CalypsoStarlight" wrote:
Anyone has some kind of pedigree or whatever available?

A.C. is not like some puppy with registration papers...

πŸ™„

Ok, first of all, my formulations weren't exactly the best and I am aware of that. I was not preparing anything beforehand and it was totally spontaneous. I must also say that I am not in any way involved with any order and I do not follow any code other than that of my own. I am also not familiar with this forum and its routine (and I do not plan to "infest" it, as you have nicely said to me, thank you very much). I was just searching for the answer to my question around the internet and stumbled upon this quite interesting topic. I thought that on some sites, AC's lineage could be (at least partly) found, but the sites were down when I visited them, that's what I meant about the "pedigree".
I do not see AC as some "god" or figure to be worshipped, my question was put in a plain way that I see some of you clearly understood as me trying to dehonest him/you or being rude. That was no the case. I also apologized at the beginning of the topic for this "intrusion". I knew I won't receive a warm welcome, but still didn't expect such a strong disgust. Maybe there are lots of people who ask the same questions as I do (and most of them are delusional)? I don't know, as, I have previously stated, I'm not involved.
If someone could forward me somewhere where I can read more about the subject of his lineage and children (more than that could be found in this topic), it would still be greatly appreciated. Again, I do not plan to troll, infest or bother your forum.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
17/06/2011 6:27 pm  
"N.O.X" wrote:
What are your "valid reasons"? Are you claiming to possibly be his "grand-whatever-daughter"? IF you turned out to be related to A.C. would it make you feel "special", like there is some hereditary link to the Current? Well, it doesn't really work that way...

"CalypsoStarlight" wrote:
Anyone has some kind of pedigree or whatever available?

A.C. is not like some puppy with registration papers...

πŸ™„

And to answer to you, who was the only person here who at least seemed to be slightly interested - my father's side is not known to me and I feel very strong connection with AC (that can be genetical, but it can also mean something else, I don't doubt it). If I will find that I am not related to him, my world won't crumble, I will just move on and hopefully find other answers. Currently, I was just trying to untangle this possibility.

And when I said that I don't see AC as a "god", it meant that I still respect him as a very strong being, just to be on the safe side, so nobody would attack me again of trying to dehonest him.


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 2964
17/06/2011 6:40 pm  
"CalypsoStarlight" wrote:
my father's side is not known to me and I feel very strong connection with AC

I take it your mother's side has failed to provide you with absolutely any indication or clue as to your paternal heritage?


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Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5056
17/06/2011 7:16 pm  

To simply answer the charges:

(1) Yes, many people have tried to invent stories about AC and his children.

(2) The tales have been examined, sifted, anal-yzed, and even looked at from the common-sense point of view. There are at least a couple of forum threads devoted to this very subject and the "search" function with point the way.

(3) The general consensus (that is, the consensus reality) is that all of his kids died as children without further issue except for his son Aleister Ataturk (sic?) who I believe has now also passed away.

(4) I don't think there is any further info here about any other descendants.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
17/06/2011 10:37 pm  
"Azidonis" wrote:
"CalypsoStarlight" wrote:
my father's side is not known to me and I feel very strong connection with AC

I take it your mother's side has failed to provide you with absolutely any indication or clue as to your paternal heritage?

Basically, yes, my real father's side is frowned upon in my family, among other things because of him leaving my mother when she was still pregnant. I have some basic information (e.g. surname), but I'm not in contact with him (he was never a part of my life), so I don't know much about his ancestors.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
17/06/2011 10:40 pm  
"Shiva" wrote:
To simply answer the charges:

(1) Yes, many people have tried to invent stories about AC and his children.

(2) The tales have been examined, sifted, anal-yzed, and even looked at from the common-sense point of view. There are at least a couple of forum threads devoted to this very subject and the "search" function with point the way.

(3) The general consensus (that is, the consensus reality) is that all of his kids died as children without further issue except for his son Aleister Ataturk (sic?) who I believe has now also passed away.

(4) I don't think there is any further info here about any other descendants.

Thank you for the answers, Shiva. I will look for the threads here on the forum, I didn't do it yet, good idea. Even speculations can provide interesting materials to think about πŸ™‚


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
18/06/2011 7:52 pm  
"Shiva" wrote:
(4) I don't think there is any further info here about any other descendants.

Except for AC Society member themuhler, of course, see earlier on in this very thread. CalypsoStarlight, do you play a musical instrument? Perhaps you could be featured at the next NOTOCON? πŸ™‚


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exu156
(@exu156)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 6
22/09/2011 3:52 am  

I was wondering if anyone could provide me with information regarding the little girl in this photograph. I am aware that she died very young (am I right on this?) but can not find any information on how she died. Any information would be very appreciated.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2623
22/09/2011 5:52 am  

Perhaps I am wrong but if memory serves me correctly that is Crowley's first child with Rose, also pictured, who wikipedia informs me was named Nuit Ma Ahathoor Hecate Sappho Jezebel Lilith. " On 28 July 1905, Rose gave birth to Crowley's first child, a daughter, whom he named Nuit Ma Ahathoor Hecate Sappho Jezebel Lilith, although she would commonly be referred to simply by her last name."
She died of Typhoid in Rangoon in 1907 I think.


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Markus
(@markus)
Member
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 258
22/09/2011 6:22 pm  

I thought that this is Crowley's second daughter? The picture is, if I remember correctly, taken in celebration of their divorce, and Lilith had been dead a couple of years by then.

Markus


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
23/09/2011 7:08 pm  

Markus, you are correct.


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exu156
(@exu156)
Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 6
24/09/2011 3:24 pm  

Thank you so much for your help guys. But if this is Crowley's second daughter can somebody tell me what was her fate? Did she die as a child or did she grow to adulthood. Sorry for all these questions, I am just trying to figure something out. Thank you again


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 686
24/09/2011 5:25 pm  

If you are talking about Lola Zaza, second daughter of AC and Rose you could try looking at the first page of this thread..


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 686
24/09/2011 5:42 pm  

P.S. (brain beaten by the edit facility)
You could also look at the previous thread here


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