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Montvid
(@montvid)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 36
20/03/2009 9:25 am  

There're many names of people scattered in Crowley's texts that he doesn't agree with or plainly thinks they're stupid etc.
The first people that come to my mind are S. L. Mathers, A.E. Waite, P. D. Ouspensky, C. S. Jones a bit, maybe.
Anyone else would like to add someone to Crowley's hatelist? 🙂


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
20/03/2009 9:28 am  

Mr. Waistcoat (William Wynn Westcott).


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
07/05/2009 4:20 pm  

Regarding Netherwood, found this in the net
http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=1586


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
07/05/2009 7:04 pm  

I think with Achad it was more of a disappointment in the direction he went as opposed to a dislike. There were a lot of people Crowley disliked though. LOL.


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 Anonymous
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Posts: 0
07/05/2009 7:28 pm  
"micomax" wrote:
Regarding Netherwood, found this in the net
http://www.killyourpetpuppy.co.uk/news/?p=1586

Thanks for this, a very nice reminisce about a man unjustly reviled.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
07/05/2009 7:29 pm  

Yeats, though hate seems too strong a verb; more like 'dislikes.'


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 Anonymous
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Posts: 0
08/05/2009 5:51 am  
"zardoz" wrote:
Yeats, though hate seems too strong a verb; more like 'dislikes.'

No, I'd say that was a jealous hatred there. Crowley never got over that YEats was a better poet than he. If Arthur Machen is to be believed this jealousy was enough to incite Crowley to hire some thugs to kill Yeats! I don't know about the veracity of this story but a young Crowley? It's possible.


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michaelclarke18
(@michaelclarke18)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1264
08/05/2009 8:57 pm  

Jerome K Jerome.....now he didn't like his work at all!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
09/05/2009 12:06 am  

I guess, although rather unjustly, Mr Gurdjieff. There is a great paragraph on the choreography of their meeting in France in James Webb book Harmonious Circle.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
09/05/2009 2:25 am  
"uranus" wrote:
"zardoz" wrote:
Yeats, though hate seems too strong a verb; more like 'dislikes.'

No, I'd say that was a jealous hatred there. Crowley never got over that YEats was a better poet than he. If Arthur Machen is to be believed this jealousy was enough to incite Crowley to hire some thugs to kill Yeats! I don't know about the veracity of this story but a young Crowley? It's possible.

I much prefer Crowley's poetry over Yeats'. Seems rather subjective regarding who rates as a better poet.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
09/05/2009 2:30 am  
"towers_open_fire" wrote:
I guess, although rather unjustly, Mr Gurdjieff. There is a great paragraph on the choreography of their meeting in France in James Webb book Harmonious Circle.

The story appears largely or completely apocryphal, it cannot get verified. No documented accounts exist of Gurdjieff and Crowley ever meeting face to face, to my knowledge.


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Montvid
(@montvid)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 36
09/05/2009 8:49 am  

My logic is that Crowley doesn't hate Gurdjieff because he hates Ouspensky. The difference between Ouspensky and Gurdjieff is that the later practiced what he said. And Crowley clearly states in the Book of Thoth that he hates Ouspensky because he is only into theory.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
09/05/2009 4:06 pm  

Seemed like AC was at least interested in Gurdjieff's work. The Harmonious Circle account suggests that he went and stayed at G's center and when he left, G sent him away with an insult. This is a kind of hearsay account and not verified. Nonetheless, we never have any reported comments by AC about G, as far as I know.

Personality-wise both men had similarities (fondness for brandy, cigars and lechery, for instance) and I would imagine that insults, as such, may have been tongue-in-cheek.

One interesting factor to note is that, if recent books are to be credited, both AC and GG were spies, using their mystical pursuits as cover for their activities. Perhaps there was something more going on...


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IAO131
(@iao131)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 461
09/05/2009 4:49 pm  

93,

Hate is a strong word and Crowley himself often spoke of how he loved the ones he hated, even bailing out an 'enemy' at one point.

How about Annie Besant? Mathers in the laters years? John Bull journalists?

"One interesting factor to note is that, if recent books are to be credited, both AC and GG were spies, using their mystical pursuits as cover for their activities."

Is that really waht those books say? That all those mystical pursuits were only cover?

IAO131


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
09/05/2009 5:25 pm  
"IAO131" wrote:
93,

Hate is a strong word and Crowley himself often spoke of how he loved the ones he hated, even bailing out an 'enemy' at one point.

How about Annie Besant? Mathers in the laters years? John Bull journalists?

"One interesting factor to note is that, if recent books are to be credited, both AC and GG were spies, using their mystical pursuits as cover for their activities."

Is that really waht those books say? That all those mystical pursuits were only cover?

IAO131

No, nor did I use the word "only."


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
09/05/2009 11:02 pm  

There's a brief account of AC and Gurdjieff's "meeting" in Perdurabo. Didn't go very well by the sounds of it........


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 Anonymous
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Posts: 0
09/05/2009 11:33 pm  
"BlueKephra" wrote:
ThereIf I remember correctly, the source for the Perdurabo inclusion was the anecdote quoted in The Harmonious Circle.

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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/05/2009 12:17 am  

Ahh, ok. I hadn't heard of this Harmonious Circle before. I shall don my Sherlock Holmes deerstalker......


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alysa
(@alysa)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 648
10/05/2009 12:25 am  

The Harmonious Circle by James Webb, seems interesting.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/05/2009 12:36 am  

Not at that price !


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/05/2009 2:03 am  
"alysa" wrote:
The Harmonious Circle by James Webb, seems interesting.

It is a good book though the Crowley story has me questioning Webb's research. Webb had a tragic ending.

http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/264/the_damned_the_strange_death_of_james_webb.htm l"> http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/264/the_damned_the_strange_death_of_james_webb.html


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/05/2009 9:19 am  
"Montvid" wrote:
There're many names of people scattered in Crowley's texts that he doesn't agree with or plainly thinks they're stupid etc.
The first people that come to my mind are S. L. Mathers, A.E. Waite, P. D. Ouspensky, C. S. Jones a bit, maybe.
Anyone else would like to add someone to Crowley's hatelist? 🙂

You want lists? AC provided an answer-of-the-moment in MWT, even with a few specific culprits-of-the-moment named. I would say, otherwise, any of his rivals for world's greatest poetry or prose, or greatest thinker and revealer of hitherto unrealized Truth (his major skill-sets) and, way above all, for the next great 'World Teacher' (his Will), along with several lessor categories (his minor skill-sets).

To put the matter in a nutshell, tersely, concisely, succinctly, the world is being corrupted by all this ---

Asthmatic Thinking Torpid Thinking Nauseous Thinking
Bovine T Uncertain T. Old-maidish T.
Chawbacon T. Venomous T. Purgative T.
Diffuse T. Whelp T. Querulous T.
Excretory T Yahoo T. Rat-riddled T.
Fog-bound T. Zig-zag T. Superficial T.
Gossiping T. Ambivalent T. Tinsel T.
Higgledy-piggledy T. Broken T. Unbalanced T.
Ill-mannered T. Corked T. Viscous T.
Jibbing T. Disjointed T. Windy T.
Kneeling T. Eight-anna T. Yapping T.
Leaden T. Flibberty-gibbet T. Zymotic T.
Moulting T. Glum T. Addled T.
Neurotic T. High-falutin' T. Blear-eyed T.
Orphan T. Invertebrate T. Capsized T.
Peccable T. Jazzy T. Down-at-heel T.
Queasy T. Knavish T. Evasive T.
Rococo T. Leucorrhoeic T. Formless T.
Slavish T. Motheaten T. Guilty T.
Hypocritical T. Unsystematic T. Lachrymose T.
Ignorant T. Void T. Maudlin T.
Jerry-built T. Waggly T. Neighing T.
Knock-kneed T. Atrophied T. Odious T.
Lazy T. Bloated T. Pedestrian T.
Messy T. Cancerous T. Quavering T.
Nasty T. Dull T. Ragbag T.
Oleaginous T. Eurasian T. Sappy T.
Purulent T. Futile T. Tuberculous T.
Slattern T. Immature T. Veneered T.
Unkempt T. Beige T. Woolly T.
Over-civilized T. Emaciated T. Flat T.
Gluey T. Dislocated T. Emetic T.
Crippled T. Slushy T. Insanitary T.
Foggy T. Teaparty T. Gloomy T.
Wordy T. Negroid T. Jaundiced T.
Opportunish T. Babbling T. Pedantic T.
Muddy T. Onanistic T. Flatulent T.
Unclean T. Hybrid T. Sluttish T.
Flabby T. Nebulous T. Stale T.
Unsorted T. Hurried T. Mangy T.
Prim T. Empty T. Portentous T.
Theatrical T. Vain T. Loose T.
Vaporous T. Loose T. Wooden T.
Myopic T. Bloodless T. Soapy T.
Flimsy T. Ersatz T. Gabbling T.
Unfinished T. Pontifical T. Wishful T.
Mongrel T. Unripe T. Frock-coated T.
Irrelevant T. Glossy T. Fashionable T.
Hidebound T. Officious T. Unmanly T.
Snobbish T. Misleading T. Slippery T. *

as we find in Brunton, Besant,(1) Clymer,(2) Max Heindl,(3) Ouspensky and in the catchpenny frauds of the secret-peddlers, the U.B., the O.H.M.,(4) the A.M.O.R.C.,(5) and all the other gangs of self-styled Rosicrucians; they should be hissed off the stage.

* [Note by editor: In the original Manuscript the list of adjectives contains about 1,000 words; a small selection only has been used.]

1: Annie Besant, theosophist.2: R. Swinburne Clymer, founder of an American "Rosicrucian" group. He had denounced Crowley and the O.T.O. in print in his "Rosicrucian Fraternity in America", a work largely devoted to attacking H. Spencer Lewis and AMORC (q.v. infra) – T.S.3: Max Heindel (1865-1919); born in Denmark, briefly involved in Theosophy; emigrated to the USA and founded the "Rosicrucian Fellowship" using material plagiarised from Rudolph Steiner – T.S.4: Order of Hidden Masters; minor English occult fraternity operating about this time. I have little information on them – T.S.5: Ancient and Mystical Order Rosae Crucis. Mail-order "Rosicrucian" fraternity founded by H. Spencer Lewis (1883-1939). Lewis had some kind of charter or "Gauge of Amity" from Theodor Reuss of O.T.O., and certain of his teachings were plagiarised from Crowley – T.S.

As I see it, though, what he really hated above all else was slavery. First and most of all, his own slavery. This runs like a relentless thread through all of his Work. His greatest battles, so many lost, and his greatest demons, so many triumphant, were related to his own personal slavery. No different from any one of us, truly, but his was somewhat unique in that he revealed it so utterly and completely, as if by example. Most importantly, in his greatest personal initiatory attainments and in his ongoing victories on behalf of humanity, the villain was and is always slavery.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/05/2009 5:41 pm  
"zardoz" wrote:
"uranus" wrote:
"zardoz" wrote:
Yeats, though hate seems too strong a verb; more like 'dislikes.'

No, I'd say that was a jealous hatred there. Crowley never got over that YEats was a better poet than he. If Arthur Machen is to be believed this jealousy was enough to incite Crowley to hire some thugs to kill Yeats! I don't know about the veracity of this story but a young Crowley? It's possible.

I much prefer Crowley's poetry over Yeats'. Seems rather subjective regarding who rates as a better poet.

Hardly, Yeats was recognized with a Nobel Prize etc. Technically he is a far superior poet from his use of word play to his sense of rhyme and use of imagery. Crowley was a minor, though excellent, poet whose best poems were his invocations. You can have the opinion of liking Crowley more, but Yeats was certainly and definitively superior and Crowley recognized that and was very jealous of it.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/05/2009 5:49 pm  

I think the better word to use in this thread would now be disgusted. LOL.

As far as Crowley being a spy etc. I highly doubt his mystical pursuits were a cover for his activity anymore than ENochian was a cover for the activities of John Dee in a similar regard. Crowley's diaries, like Dee's, were not faked, they are very sincere in recording experiences in an uncoded manner. I believe Crowley was doing some spy work, at least in the first war, but he certainly wasn't covering it up with magick.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
10/05/2009 7:48 pm  
"uranus" wrote:
"zardoz" wrote:
"uranus" wrote:
"zardoz" wrote:
Yeats, though hate seems too strong a verb; more like 'dislikes.'

No, I'd say that was a jealous hatred there. Crowley never got over that YEats was a better poet than he. If Arthur Machen is to be believed this jealousy was enough to incite Crowley to hire some thugs to kill Yeats! I don't know about the veracity of this story but a young Crowley? It's possible.

I much prefer Crowley's poetry over Yeats'. Seems rather subjective regarding who rates as a better poet.

Hardly, Yeats was recognized with a Nobel Prize etc. Technically he is a far superior poet from his use of word play to his sense of rhyme and use of imagery. Crowley was a minor, though excellent, poet whose best poems were his invocations. You can have the opinion of liking Crowley more, but Yeats was certainly and definitively superior and Crowley recognized that and was very jealous of it.

Thanks for allowing me to prefer Crowley's poetry over Yeats'. I'll allow you the belief that Yeats was a better poet.
Technical superiority does not equal "better" nor does establishment approval. Crowley's alleged recognition and jealousy of Yeats' poetry sounds like errant conjecture, at best.


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