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[Closed] Nazi-Fascist propaganda/persecution of Thelemites, Occultists and Freemasons


Falcon
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Forces Occultes (Occult Forces) is an anti-Masonic propaganda film produced in Vichy collaborationist France in 1943. Freemasons and rival Occultists were persecuted and imprisoned under Nazi and Fascist regimes during the 1930's and 1940's, despite the fact that the Nazi Party was sponsored by the Occult Thule Society during the early 1920's, and Mussolini's adviser Julius Evola was an Occultist with an interest in the Thelemic spiritual philosophy and literary works of Aleister Crowley. General J.F.C. Fuller was both an Occultist and a prominent officer of Sir Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists, who wrote the first biography of Crowley entitled "The Star in the West", and was the one-time Editor of To Mega Therion's A∴A∴ journal "The Equinox".
 
 
 
 

hadgigegenraum
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Thanks for the film...which frankly demonstrates how the "Great Game" is played....those who play the false left right political dialectic, who controls the politicians, who control the press, who control industry, those who push war and death...through lies and more lies, murder and subversion...and that would include the fascists as well as communists...what else is new!

The hero of the film, Avnel, of course is assailed by assassins after he finally stands up to the higher machinations of the international fraternity who wish to plunge the world into yet another world war....were indeed death reigns...

It is interesting that the hero is adorned by beautiful truthful woman to which I thought it interesting that they, including Avnel's wife, are attacked for applauding his speech while in the audience above the parliamentary chambers to which we find the translation state at 4

"Manifestations are forbidden Madame please leave"

Now the film being made during the new aeon of ~Had, the Manifestation of Nuit~...the old aeon forces do not want the emergence of a hero that can see through the issues corruption....

Unfortunately the hero is blind and has to go through a journey....through the ranks of the secret society to be ultimately confronted by what is a moral duty to tell the truth... and for it 'Brother Avnel" is assassinated ( but survives and is loved by his wife, though wounded, which is the paralanguage message of hope)

Truth....Truth and Justice, but we have is a snuff film... a snuff film where indeed the fascist (Mussolini  Hitler) were supported by whom...just as Lenin  and Mao were supported by the same whom...with money from the "west"....and were those who are being "snuffed" is humanity as it the case with the present globalist unfolding of their Malthusian agenda.

Aisles it the film note the "Salute" given during the Masonic ceremony at 14:05...the Nazi Salute!

The question relative to this forum is this: was Crowley, a potential hero, subverted in his mission by "Masonic" temptations that then served to exploit his weaknesses? 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Shiva
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

...the old aeon forces do not want the emergence of a hero that can see through the issues corruption....

Right on. Welcome to today.

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Unfortunately the hero is blind and has to go through a journey....through the ranks of the secret society to be ultimately confronted by what is a moral duty to tell the truth...

Ah, yes, the eternal plight of the (any) initiate.

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

'Brother Avnel" is assassinated ( but survives ... )

Good, he got off easier than most "revealers." Say, didn't this same scenario play out in the Legend of that Jesus fellow?

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Malthusian agenda.

Malthusian: "population tends to increase at a faster rate than its means of subsistence and that unless it is checked by moral restraint or disaster (such as disease, famine, or war) widespread poverty and degradation inevitably result."

Oh, Lordy, here it comes again.

Here is what I was taught back in Basics 101 (1963-4 e.v.): The dark forces control the lower planes. One cannot defeat them on their turf. Apparent victories are soon replaced by reincarnated forces in a similar, but subtly different, disguise.

At a later date, I was taught that the only way out of this mess was to "ascend" or "transcend" the limitations of the lower planes.

There are further revelations (about there being no difference), but these are for the "Non-Dual" thread, which has been locked (due to the Shinola Smear Campaign), and which is beyond the scope of the present scenario of Battleground Earth.

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

was Crowley, a potential hero, subverted in his mission by "Masonic" temptations that then served to exploit his weaknesses? 

An excellent question. There is merit in this inquiry (for me), for I have presented, even in this very thread on discrepancies, the fact(s) about how the A.'.A.'., which was free, non-Masonic, and a vertical, one-to-one lineage, got transformed into a fee-and-dues paying, "esoteric freenmasonic," horizontal, group endeavor.

Discrepany Note: The group endeavor was formed around a central "secret" that could not be disclosed by BafometR because he had taken an Oath of Secrecy. But the former Perdurabo/V5 declared that "Mystery is the enemy of Truth," and freely broke all Oaths by printing the G.D. stuff. I guess sometimes you get to break the Oaths, and other times you keep it quiet while dangling it like a carrot to induce payment of fees and dues ... in advance!

"Success is your proof." In this case, Crowley's OTO failed (in his immediate vicinity), but Achad's version actually took root on the physical plane. It was then perpetuated by W.T. Smith, Jane Wolfe, Jack Parsons, and finally terminated by Germer. But it resurrected and I was there on the ground floor. I had to go through the whole circus in order to understand what it led to, and so I got out (by formal resignation), so who am I to complain?

Every initiate must climb up (first) through their version of the Outer Order. Their "version" is called their "karmic vision" by the Tibetan guys. It is not generally understood that all of these Outer Orders are a rendering of The Black Lodge.

 


christibrany
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@hadgigegenraum

 

I don't know what drugs you are on but there is no salute at 14:05 during the Masonic ceremony (french) 

image

 


christibrany
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Posted by: @shiva

At a later date, I was taught that the only way out of this mess was to "ascend" or "transcend" the limitations of the lower planes.

Be of the world but not in it. 


hadgigegenraum
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@christibrany

Yes, but if one rolls the film from that point... you will see it....thrice!


David Dom Lemieux
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Persecution of Masons in the Third Reich?  What, so all of the police chiefs and lawyers?  I find this hard to believe.  

Also occultists per se where persecuted or just the occultists who refused to join the Nazi Party?  It sounds like baloney. 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


christibrany
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@dom

 

Well we all know Germer was in a camp due to his association with the 'Freemason Crowley' and no it wasn't a holiday camp.

 

 

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Yes, but if one rolls the film from that point... you will see it....thrice!

Please re-point out the proper timestamps then please.  I don't have all week. 


Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

It sounds like baloney. 

No baloney or Shinola here. The 3rd Reich went after all occult and secret societies. Germer was specifically dumped in a concentration hotel for being a high-ranking Mason. It is a process known as "eliminating or curtailing the opposition." The Thule Society moved out and onto the physical plane as the Nazi party. It had an "occult" core, and everyone else in the occult arena had to sign up or go down.

Posted by: @christibrany

Well we all know Germer was in a camp due to his association with the 'Freemason Crowley

Some of us don't know anything about this subject. I don't think Crowley was involved in Germer's case. Germer was a high-ranker himself.

Posted by: @christibrany

I don't have all week. 

Impatience is a virtue, they say.

 

 


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @dom

It sounds like baloney. 

No baloney or Shinola here. The 3rd Reich went after all occult and secret societies. Germer was specifically dumped in a concentration hotel for being a high-ranking Mason. It is a process known as "eliminating or curtailing the opposition." The Thule Society moved out and onto the physical plane as the Nazi party. It had an "occult" core, and everyone else in the occult arena had to sign up or go down.

Yeah but if Germer (presumably he was a German citizen) would've joined the Nazi Party then there wouldn't have been a problem.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

Yeah but if Germer (presumably he was a German citizen) would've joined the Nazi Party then there wouldn't have been a problem.

This very well might have been the case. I don't know if he refused to join, or whether they just "{grabbed him" because he was a Mason. I dunno these things. I dunno even the months/years of his confinement. But they had him in jail, and I always heard that it was because of Masonry.

Maybe someone else has more details.


hadgigegenraum
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@christibrany

Afraid to just click....I guess one second more turns into a week when you do not want to know something!


christibrany
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@hadgigegenraum

 

Um, I did click.  And I didn't see it.  It is simply not at that time marker.  Which is why I requested (again)  can you point out where this salute is?

 

Thank you kindly. 


Shiva
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Raiders of the Last Lost Salute.

 


ignant666
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What our Woodchuck Comrade seems to be claiming as evidence of some Fascist affiliation among some French Freemasons is this fictional depiction, in a Nazi propaganda film, of the actors playing members of a French Masonic lodge opening ceremonies with all members giving "the sign, the triple clap, and the proclamation" ("le signe, la triple batterie, et le clamation". It occurs at 1511.

The "sign" is the extended right arm, palm down, a la the Nazi (and ancient Roman) salute. I don't recall the Nazis following this by clapping their hands three times, and reciting "Liberté!" ("Liberty!"), followed by "the sign" again, another triple clap, and then "Egalité!" ("Equality!"), and then once more the sign and triple clap, followed by "Fraternité!" ("Brotherhood!") "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" is the national motto of France since the French Revolution. I don't recall "liberty" or "equality" being very big concerns among Nazis, nor do i recall then being particularly "fraternal" towards Jews, Gypsies, Freemasons, Communists, non-Nazi gay folks, or any other non-Nazis.

This fictional film, Forces occultes (Occult forces) was funded by the German Army's Propaganda Abteilung as a propaganda piece, and was made in Nazi-occupied France in 1943. The director was later executed by the Allies.

 


Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

I don't recall the Nazis following this by clapping their hands three times

This is because the 3 claps are the secret key, and I wonder how that gesture escaped tyling and got into the movies.

Posted by: @ignant666

The director was later executed by the Allies.

That'll surely teach folks to not make things up.


hadgigegenraum
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The "Salute"....whatever the party is a demonstration of "obedience"...to the party, in this case masonry, and its ideals, ideals whose ideals can be understood to be a cover for a means to an end...and of course are not understood by all members and where the film demonstrates that the goal is Masonic domination of nations and of the world....who cares if the world perishes in war for greed....

It can be argued the that Nazi Party was set up by 'Masonic' lodges themselves...part of the false dialectic that the hero of the film explains in the beginning of the film...

Note that there are no woman at the Masonic meetings...so much for equality!

 


ignant666
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

the film demonstrates that [...]

One more time, and clear and country simple: the film is a NAZI PROPAGANDA FILM.

It does not "demonstrate" anything. It is a pack of lies directed at the enemies of Nazis.


ignant666
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Posted by: @shiva

the 3 claps are the secret key, and I wonder how that gesture escaped tyling and got into the movies.

The even more esoteric "two claps, then three claps" sequence can be heard in the traditional "Let's Go, Yankees!" chant of the "Evil Empire of the Bronx", the New York Yankees:

https://youtu.be/YmcXsxx4Up8

https://youtu.be/Jyadp4yKrOQ

[the second one ends with another very traditional NYC chant, the "Jump! Jump! Jump!" that tends to happen when folks appear on high ledges or at high windows]

____________________________

Ohh, no. Now i am a serial poster and no better than Sanguine Chuck The Spring Bird.


hadgigegenraum
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@ignant666

And the Nazi party was supported by powerful networks from the 'west'...Bush's and Harrimans...Skull and Bones...and British Crown...who wanted a leadership that would rearm and act such that second world war could ensue...though there is evidence that Germany did not want World War II, or sought peace with the British (west).....

And now there is plenty of evidence that the West does not want to acknowledge the central role in Russia's stopping the Nazi onslaught... a denial that goes along with the fact that the west has supported actual Nazi's in the Ukraine for Color Revolution Coup under Obama... in the west's present on going "Great Game" attack on Russia, Russia, Russia...so to talk about propaganda!

 

 


ignant666
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

the West does not want to acknowledge the central role [of Stalin and Soviet Communism] stopping the Nazi onslaught

Fixed that for you, as the kids say. The "defeating the Nazis" thing was a couple years after making a treaty with them of course.

Putin, whom you seem to adore, is an anti-Communist. Many on the left would identify him as the worldwide head of the current Fascist International (Trump being the US leader of said International).

As to your lunatic claim that "the west has supported actual Nazi's [sic] in the Ukraine for Color Revolution Coup under Obama", you might want to check your timeline.

I know right-wing nutbars such as yourself like to hold Obummer responsible for every bad thing in the recent past, but the man was elected in 2008, and became president in 2009.

The Ukraine's "Orange revolution" was over by January 2005, four years before Barry O took office. The US president at the time of the Ukraine's "Orange revolution" was Bush the Younger, a Republican.


Shiva
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This is all too confusing. I will call in the UFOs to settle it so we can sleep in peace again.

 


hadgigegenraum
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@ignant666

The coup I am talking about was the one in 2014 as pushed by Obama/Biden/Clinton and Victoria Nuland in her cookies....utilizing ties to real torch bearing Banderite Nazi's...and nice pay offs to keep Hunter Biden's coke and teenager habit going...

Yes the Soviets under Stalin beat the Nazi's and President Putin properly recognizes that effort, and effort that the Russia hating west would rather bury...especially as Russia is prepared to beat back O'Biden's war provocations in the same manner...btw how are the slave markets going in Libya...reappearing after being liberated into ruins by Obama and Sarkozy!

P.S.  Does a magnet stick on your arm from Trump's "Warp Speed" violation of the Nuremberg Code...or did you get the saline! I hope the saline for your sake and health.

So back on topic....was the OTO a Masonic trap of sorts for Crowley's ego or did he in effect spill out all the secrets of Masonry making it in 'open source' as might be said in this day and age?

 


ignant666
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The "coup [you are] talking about" was an election (that had zero to do with any "Color Revolution")? And the sin of Obummer et al. was to be pleased about the results of a democratic election that led to a President less inclined to be Putin's bitch than his predecessor?

You dwell in such an alternate reality, with such different facts than the one i live in, that it would be pointless to continue.

As to your question about the vague OT, Crowley thought that a new form of freemasonry that taught something actually useful (the IX "secret", which he, against all evidence, fervently believed in) could be a vehicle for covertly converting the upper classes of all advanced countries to Thelema.

It was not a "trap," nor did AC "spill out all the secret of Masonry", which are all rather banal and quite dull anyway. He made up new secrets.


charlesvdl
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Aisles it the film note the "Salute" given during the Masonic ceremony at 14:05...the Nazi Salute

As a past Freemason (only 3rd degree) I always felt the salute was only slightly fascist if you raised your arm about 25° of the horizontal! I believed the salute was a solemnity in accordance with one's oath and symbolised the cutting of the throat.


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

@ignant666

And the Nazi party was supported by powerful networks from the 'west'...Bush's and Harrimans...Skull and Bones...and British Crown...who wanted a leadership that would rearm and act such that second world war could ensue...though there is evidence that Germany did not want World War II, or sought peace with the British (west).....

Please enlighten us about this "evidence" but first give us your source.  

I'm.not expecting a reply.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


hadgigegenraum
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Posted by: @ignant666

As to your question about the vague OT, Crowley thought that a new form of freemasonry that taught something actually useful (the IX "secret", which he, against all evidence, fervently believed in) could be a vehicle for covertly converting the upper classes of all advanced countries to Thelema.

It was not a "trap," nor did AC "spill out all the secret of Masonry", which are all rather banal and quite dull anyway. He made up new secrets.

Dear Ignant666,

Ok I would accept your statement as an adequate answer.   I suppose then the question is, does the -IX "secret"- really have anything to do with The Book of the Law (?)....and since the -IX- comes from a Masonic tradition, then it could be implied that this branch of Masonry, was intended to influence, as you say "a vehicle for covertly converting the upper classes of all advanced countries to Thelema." then could it not be understood that Crowley was courted by Masonry to deliver this form of Masonry with its "useful" sex secrets as the ointment by which candidates might be attracted to take part?

If it was Crowley's mission to promulgate the Law of Thelema, which by being an intended "Open Source" revelation, "the Law is for all", through the Stele of Revealing and via Liber L vel Legis, then could the lure of OTO (degrees) with attendant secrets, sex secrets, be the vehicle (for Masonic recruitment) for distracting Crowley in his mission, by subsuming the Cairo Revelations to an old aeon structure, even while offered "new secrets", so called new secrets which were actually the old secrets, shut up, and to which Reuss was afraid of further open sources revelation, such as the Book of Lies, that 'recruitment' of Crowley was made necessary, just as with parable with Avnel, for basically the so called secrets  of the IX degree or higher ranks of Masonry, are actually all "rather banal and quite dull anyway" even the one's Crowley "made up".

Of course Crowley saw a certain vehicle for his mission with the OTO offer, one he wished to exploit, but did it work out...would he have done better if that intersection not have happened or was such a crossroads bound to happen anyways or maybe not, as he could have said no.

P.S. 

Per Ukraine 2014...not a Democratic transition of power in the least!

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2011/S00116/how-the-western-press-lied-about-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine-pretending-that-it-was-instead-a-real-democratic-revolution.htm

For Dom  I would suggest reading: George Bush-The Unauthorized Biography by Webster Tarpley and Anton Chaitken

The first two chapters 'Born in a Bank' and the "Hitler Project" are particularly important, the later being particularly relevant.

Btw, Anton Chaitken's father was a prominent Jewish voice in America against Hitler in the 1930's and Anton would lead the call to have Albert Pike's statue taken down in Washington DC back in the 1990's.

Relative to the subject at hand is Chaitken's 1993 article, "Why Albert Pike's Statute Must Fall- Scottish Rite's Klu Klux Klan Project"

https://archive.schillerinstitute.com/fidelio_archive/1993/fidv02n01-1993Sp/fidv02n01-1993Sp_004-why_albert_pikes_statue_must_fal.pdf

So, how does Crowley's recruitment into OTO Masonry fit into such "Klu Klux Klan" projects as historian Chaitken identifies?


ignant666
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Crowley was never a member of any Masonic lodge in any English-speaking country. There is no such thing as "OTO Masonry"- the OTO is not a Masonic roganization, and is not a "form of Masonry." The original Reuss OTO, and AC's subsequent OTO, and the Caliphornian McMurtry (c)OTO, none of them were/are Masonic bodies.

As to your bizarre political claims: Since you dwell in a different reality from me, we have no common reservoir of facts to debate, and discussion is pointless. Putting forth a reprint of literal Russian state propaganda produced by one of the main outlets of the Russian foreign intelligence agency as objective political reporting is a pretty good example of this. You are a sucker for Kremlin propaganda. 


hadgigegenraum
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@ignant666

Thanks for the continued slander and utter blindness to facts, Mr. Fact Checker.

At least The Nation understands there was collusion with Nazi's in the Ukraine by the west

https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/americas-collusion-with-neo-nazis/

confirmed earlier by Glenn Greenwald whom you probably hate.

https://theintercept.com/2015/02/27/clapper-calls-arming-ukrainian-forces-actually-empower/

Then there is the no punches pulled approach to the issue.

https://larouchepub.com/pr/2017/Xproof%20Nazis%20in%20Ukraine-2.pdf

As regards your assertions towards the OTO, I believe that it was Crowley who at first regarded it as just another Masonic body....irregular or not...and that he did not give much merit to it....though then he seizes on an opportunity...to which his joining and ministrations with  are most definitively "Masonic", in signs and regalia,  as photos demonstrate the pose.

 


ignant666
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I guess i was unclear- i am not arguing politics with a person who cites Russian propaganda, LaRouchites, and Glenn Intercoursing Greenwald as sources. You are a cuckoo who lives in an imaginary world.

Real Freemasons are very firm and clear in saying that none of the three version of the OTO (Reuss, Crowley, McMurtry) is Masonic. The OTO as AC found it was pseudo-Masonic, and AC wanted to parlay pseudo-Masonry into Thelemic World Domination, with him in charge as Prophet and God-King.

 


Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

the OTO is not a Masonic roganization, and is not a "form of Masonry."

It was formed by Masons and (in the early days) admitted Masons by "transfer credit." The members of Agape Lodge referred to it as "esoteric freemasonry." So you can see where the common folk and language like to equate OYO with Masonry.

However, the docs clearly state that OTO does not infringe on the rights of [common] Masons. And as it developed (through Agape Lodge, and that's about all of it), it moved away from the Masonic shadow into what the Masons would call Clandestine or worse.

Posted by: @ignant666

AC's subsequent OTO, and the Caliphornian McMurtry (c)OTO, none of them were/are Masonic bodies.

Right. Even the G.D. was formed by Masons, but the new Order was not of any Masonic line.

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

As regards your assertions towards the OTO, I believe that it was Crowley who at first regarded it as just another Masonic body....irregular or not...and that he did not give much merit to it..

Yes, this is true ... as far as I can tell from my remote position in time and space, having not yet been born when these things happened.

But just because this is the way AC saw OTO, in the beginning, does not make it Masonic, deviant or not. On the other hand, the OTOites of Agape described their structure as "esoteric freemasonry, and so did Solar Lodge ... but what we/they were doing had nothing to do with Masonry. I guess we could agree that it was born out of Masonry?

This many-sided dilemma could easily be solved in the Non-Dual thread but, alas, it has been closed/locked due to overwhelming duality.

Posted by: @ignant666

You are a cuckoo who lives in an imaginary world.

My advice to HGO is to abandon this thread and move over to the UFO thread, where Lam and the Aliens (a rock grup) are more open to your paradigm.

Also note that, in keeping on=topic, that OTO was very right-wing. It had a central dictator who wielded infallible power. Whether he/she was benevolent, draconian, crazy, or drunk did not matter.


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @ignant666

the OTO is not a Masonic roganization, and is not a "form of Masonry."

It was formed by Masons and (in the early days) admitted Masons by "transfer credit." The members of Agape Lodge referred to it as "esoteric freemasonry." So you can see where the common folk and language like to equate OYO with Masonry.

However, the docs clearly state that OTO does not infringe on the rights of [common] Masons. And as it developed (through Agape Lodge, and that's about all of it), it moved away from the Masonic shadow into what the Masons would call Clandestine or worse.

Who cares?  Anyone of that bent could've proclaimed that they have just formed a "Masonic organization."   What bent?  The lineage from some spookey-ookey connection to those architects of those big pyramids.

 

Crowley claimed a link to Atlantis.....<Ahem>     Likewise then in his version of Samekh he proclaims that your/my/their Higher Self is a "keeper of the mystery of Khem (Khem being Ancient Egypt for the ignorant that is)."

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Shiva
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Posted by: @dom

Who cares

This is an alternative viewpoint that reflects the non-dual approach. Is it not better to let the manipulations of reality from over a hundred annums ago drop below the threshold of consciousness? Well, yes, especially if it has no bearing upon one's current mental health.

But, as stated in the AC Horror Film thread, if it's AC-related, anyone gets to post and argue about it.


kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @ignant666

Real Freemasons are very firm and clear in saying that none of the three version of the OTO (Reuss, Crowley, McMurtry) is Masonic. The OTO as AC found it was pseudo-Masonic, and AC wanted to parlay pseudo-Masonry into Thelemic World Domination, with him in charge as Prophet and God-King.

This is true.

I sought "Light in Masonry" after reading of Masonic Arcana in Crowley. There were no OTO groups I could reach by city bus and I eventually reached out to contact the local Temple. This set me on a path which remains with me to this day. I became a Master Mason and received "The Word." I went on to become a 32nd Degree in the Scottish Rite as well as Master of my Lodge in the year 2000. In place of the traditional "Master's Jewel" (usually a ring), I elected to have the Square and Compasses, alongside my Lodge's name, tattooed on my right arm. 

I studied everything I could get my hands on regarding the Craft. I also met some curious esotericists and Templars along the way. Folks who would chat with me about Crowley and other interesting topics.

But Ignant is not so ignant here. OTO is spurious, clandestine and irregular. It is clear that AC sought to "hijack" Masonry just as he did the GD. Scoop it all up and bring it under his authority. There IS a Masonic Secret which Crowley seems to have missed. I suspect this was expressed when Progradior ended his diary at Cefalu after a period of devotion to the Beast. He wrote at the end that AC seemed to missing something....that he had the wrong thing. There is no further elaboration. We can only speculate. But I would suggest that there is a Masonic Arcana which the OTO (as a vehicle for Crowley's vision) has missed.

Not that they'd care one iota. 

I've watched the promo-propaganda videos. They don't want to come out as the "religion" whose Prophet promoted goat-shagging, shit gobbling and (really) much, much worse. And there WAS much worse than drinking cat's blood at the...er...."Abbey." 

Nope. Freemasons have nothing to do with Crowley. Crowley sought to get some numbers attached to his name. Cool. After all, he DID feel the Universe existed for him to SUCK.

But apparently, he hadn't ordered the CLASSIC at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

A for Effort, though. I mean, I don't have that many bumper stickers on my guitar case. 

But I DID learn a few things from the Masons. And I regard it as part of my karma that I knocked upon the door of the Temple when I was young and all gung-ho for 666.

Eyes to see and ears to hear may yet find Gnosis through the "Instructive Tongue."  


Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

It is clear that AC sought to "hijack" Masonry just as he did the GD.

And then he went after Theosophy, as well.

 


kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

And then he went after Theosophy, as well.

Yes-and isn't it funny...all the things AC tried to grab up, integrate and OWN continue on today with nary a mention of his name.

There are active GD branches. Theosophy thrives. And so does Masonry in its many forms. 


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

 

This is true.

I sought "Light in Masonry" after reading of Masonic Arcana in Crowley. There were no OTO groups I could reach by city bus and I eventually reached out to contact the local Temple. This set me on a path which remains with me to this day. I became a Master Mason and received "The Word." I went on to become a 32nd Degree in the Scottish Rite as well as Master of my Lodge in the year 2000. In place of the traditional "Master's Jewel" (usually a ring), I elected to have the Square and Compasses, alongside my Lodge's name, tattooed on my right arm. 

I studied everything I could get my hands on regarding the Craft. I also met some curious esotericists and Templars along the way. Folks who would chat with me about Crowley and other interesting topics.

 

 

Speaking of masons you still don't see too many girls on building sites do you?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


hadgigegenraum
(@hadgigegenraum)
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@kidneyhawk

Thanks for chiming with a most interesting, pertinent and even personal reflection and contribution to the thread...

(Now I was told a story by friends, of when they were in the OTO, and had brought Grady McMurtry to visit the magnificent Masonic Lodge in Philadelphia... The building sits to the northeast corner of that square at the center of the city that was once dominated by City Hall to which at the top of is a statue of William Penn holding a scroll in his hand and facing in the north east direction, that a when viewed from northwest looks like he is holding his cock...anyways at one time no buildings were to be built taller than City Hall, but they were and Philly did lose a certain perspective since then.....

So in the Masonic Lodge there are these massive lodge rooms that each have a particular historical theme, that thus provides as historical retrospect of 'Masonry' through the ages...It is through the wonders of plaster and a populace that once had actual skills in executing architectural wonder...Anyways as the story goes, while they were all in the Egyptian room, early in the tour, Grady wandered through the sectioned of areas to sit in the Lodge Masters chair, while the tour guide carried on....eventually the guide was shocked at finding the fellow with the significant beard, holding Court, to which the guide said  "you can't sit there" to which with a Cheshire Cat grin Grady made some gesture and perhaps an intonation....and a "yes I can"....as the tour continued....

One of the people who told me this, later parted the OTO, post Grady, to and with some friends who were refugees from Grant's OTO and others....all came to a place in their respective paths that the whole rigamarole needed to be transcended and thus in a jest and celebration came to witness each other's "sovereignty" as the basis of what they called the Chthonic-Auranian OTO...Frankly that still seems as the most healthy and actual New Aeon approach around...)

I can sympathize with, and Commend, Kidneyhawk's path, through Masonry, or at least that particular rescission of it...

One might say that if Crowley had been successful in his quests, then the winner gets to write history, to which I will note that Ignant seems to have some yellow cake on his mustache, perhaps from too many New York Times readings, i surmise,  and seemingly kissing up Judith Miller's fictions...but back to Masonry, or the co-opting there of...if one read through Anton Chaitkin's article(see above regarding Albert Pike) one will note that Masonry was taken over in the United States from those Lodges and Rites that George Washington and other founding fathers were part of....and yellow journalism as from the NYT does have its networks of power over narratives...

And is not the Masonic journey a narrative...

And why the narrative continues as Kidneyhawk dangles the relevant suspense needed for a story, that there is a secret still with 'Masonry" that Crowley did not know, and that one of the Beasts acolytes, Progradior, (It is great that his writings were published), witnessed that something was missing...particularly with the mess that was the Abby of Thelema in Cefalu in the 1920's...which was a mess particularly as children were not being respected...

As regards Progradior, it can be noted that he did have a certain breakthrough while at the Abbe of significance, which thus makes the observations that Kidneyhawk shares as of more interest...I shall have to reread what Progradior had to say....

Now Kenneth Grant did say, and off of what Achad had, was that Crowley never had pronounced "The Word" relative to 9=2. that the "Word" was missing, it was "not known"...Grant addresses this in particular in Beyond the Mauve Zone, the chapter entitled "Masonic Masques"...

What can be gleaned is that Grant recognizes the import of Liber L vel Legis that thus sets a conflagration across the planet relative to particular seats of power...and that "as brothers fight thee" would indeed speak to that which overturns those bodies that guard "the Word"....the secret that keeps the doors to the narrative open....for those inclined to join, because it would appear that such a body would be possessors of 'the secret'....

Granted that Grant does say much, he actually does not talk overmuch in that he keeps the mystery alive, which is part of the important in that the narrative is dealing with that which is ineffable which is thus important relative to the current....

A current in this current of (time) or rather Aeon, that thus "Every man and woman is a star" and thus I will relay another story, relative to my friend who was on the tour of the Masonic Lodge with Grady, and went on to start the Chthonic-Auranian OTO...

What he said was, that when he was initiated by Grady, he did realize that Grady did possess what in the East is called Shaktipata. and that part of that Shaktipata transcended the trappings of the initiation, but that there was a spark, that he witnessed from Grady, and that spark was not separate from the man in the turban the night before, being the regular man that had to go to the bathroom in the early morning as my friend observed, like everyone else...in what was sort of like the Wizard of Oz being exposed by Toto the dog, and in the end the wizard tells Dorothy the wish fulfilling ruby slippers....and that the spark witnessed from Grady was but the grace or sympathy of the witnessing of the same spark within himself....

And in consideration of the parable of the Wizard of Oz, where did Dorothy want to go....back home to her simple loving family....

Perhaps it is the simple loving family that the Beast was missing and not able to give...

Love!

Regards

HG

 


Shiva
(@shiva)
Not a Rajah
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6207
 
Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Theosophy thrives.

You will have to convince me of that. I'd say aspirants all over the place tend to read Blavatsky, et al, sooner or later, but her org has run downhill for quite a while. In 1964, I attended a lecture at the Los Angles Grand Auditorium of The Theo Society. I was huge, about the size of a large playhouse or movie theater ... which is surce once must have been.

There were about ten folks in the audience, all spread out. The lecture was amazingly boring. I remember absolutely nothing.

But I have not forsaken the Theo Soc. Periodically, and on a regular basis (at least once a decade), I check out how the org is doing. Today (this decade) it is still truckin'...

Be a Member of the Theosophical Society


Theo


Membership Benefits

Join or renew today to support our work and connect with like-minded people around the world.

Participate
We offer many opportunities to join communities of people who share similar core values, including:

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  • Theosophical camps and lodges nationwide
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During its first century, Theosophy established itself as an international movement. Campbell believed that from its foundation until 1980, Theosophy had gained tens of thousands of adherents.[1] He noted that in that latter year [1980], there were circa 35,000 members of the Adyar-based Theosophical Society (9000 of whom were in India), c.5,500 members of the Theosophical Society in America, c.1500 members of the Theosophical Society International (Pasadena), and about 1200 members of the United Lodge of Theosophy.
Membership of the Theosophical Society reached its highest peak in 1928, when it had 45,000 members.[139] The HPB Lodge in Auckland, New Zealand was one of the world's largest, with over 500 members in 1949.
 

 

 


 
Based on this [^], my survey for this decade, I have been convinced, by myself and the numbers, that Theosophy is still hanging in there, perhaps thriving. It is possibly that there are more Theosophists than Thelemites. But then, there is no central Thelemic org where we can go to count numbers. "Self-identified" Thelemites can only be counted if we survey everyone on the planet ... maybe tomorrow, I'm too busy today.
Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

One might say that if Crowley had been successful ...

Okay. But this is another "what if" presumption. "What if" did not happen. "If a buzzard had a radio in his behind, there'd be music in the air" ( - Mr Green, my chemistry teacher, who put the first A-bomb together for the Military-Industrial Complex).

Now, the tiredness comes upon me due to this extended review of the OTO, and Theo too, with GD riding alongside. All of these orgs end up committing the same distraction ...

The Application of Spiritual Energy to Material Ends

Now, the subject was, and still is, Nazi-Fashits Pro-poo-ganda. It is my opinion, having once been the Grand Sec Gen, IX*, that OTO is Freemasonic-derived, but not formally-linked to any Freemasonic Lodge. And all this stuff is a manifestation of The Black Lodge. If any of this stuff gets started on the physical plane (and in the minds of mortal men), and it is altruistic and selflessly free ... it will, sooner or later, get "infiltrated" by the dark side of things.

I rest my piece.

 
 

Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posts: 6207
 
Posted by: @shiva

... which is surce once must have been.

Errata and correction. This drunken scrawl should have read "... which it surely once must have been."

 


kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
Member
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Posts: 2042
 
Posted by: @shiva

You will have to convince me of that

No, I won't. I believe I was under the influence of Crowley's Intro to AL where he penned the lines:

 

Democracy dodders. Ferocious Fascism, cackling Communism, equally frauds, cavort crazily all over the globe.

The pithy alliteration was too tempting to avoid. Ergo, the word “thrive” serves as more a literary flair than a statement testifying to statistics I'm willing to enter the Octagon over.

Does Scientology “thrive?” More so than the Thelemic groups, I'd guess.

My point (possibly poorly put forth) was that the institutions Crowley's groups sought to supplant do carry on.

Masonry, monumental, maintains...

(I admit that I admire coked up Crowley and his alliterative allusions)

I have been brooding over Progradior's progress at the Abbey and his conclusion that AC has got the wrong thing (I think those are his words-if another has the book to hand, I will happily be corrected). It's significant, I think. It might be the only conclusion one who runs the gamut with the Beast will come to. That is, if they escape.

I can appreciate the outlook that Masonry is droll, hollowed out and certainly not as exotic as a Gnostic Mass. But I also know there is a current running through this Fraternity which is always busy with the Grand Mystery, always taking new steps toward the Ultra-Light. I DO think that AC, in his best moments, tasted this-and wrote of it with great and remarkable finesse. But then he went on and encumbered it with garbage.

I recently remarked to a friend that the story of Aleister Crowley is one of the Baby who never gets out of the Bathwater. Forget the oriental carpet. This baby shit the tub. And yet we wouldn't want to hurl this spectacular Golden Child out the window with his floating turds. So we learn how to keep that which is Gold and remove that which is...not.

Like all good parents do.


kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @dom

Speaking of masons you still don't see too many girls on building sites do you?

Or Lodgerooms.


Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posts: 6207
 
Posted by: @kidneyhawk

My point (possibly poorly put forth) was that the institutions Crowley's groups sought to supplant do carry on.

Why, yes they do. Warm Zones can be productive, and they seem to go on and on; they are usually stable (more or less), do not rock the boat of The Establishment (too much), and they (usually) don't offer/require transcendental libations at their ceremonies.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

It might be the only conclusion one who runs the gamut with the Beast will come to. That is, if they escape.

C.F. Russell escaped. His ZNUZ is ZNEES says: I was initiated into the III* of O.T.O., a synthetic society. One eve before going to a party ...

Somehow he ended up at Cefalu. I only remembers two parts: The one where he caught Therion cheating at chess, and the one about how Therion had to visit the john every hour ... where his medicine cabinet was.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

So we learn how to keep that which is Gold and remove that which is...not.

It's called "purification." An excellent approach.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Or Lodgerooms.

Even the Theosophists tried to adopt the Masonic Drift. This is Annie Besant. I suppose this was involved with the United Theosophical Lodge, or whatever it's called.

image

 


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk
Posted by: @dom

Speaking of masons you still don't see too many girls on building sites do you?

Or Lodgerooms.

Yes that was my subtle implication.   Very much a white man's club... much like this forum.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 6207
 
Posted by: @dom

Very much a white man's club... much like this forum.

Be cautious, now. People are lurking everywhere, just to pounce on you and accuse you of racism, or hate-crimes, that sort of thing. I hear there are black and Jewish Masons, but not a lot. As to around here, I think we should get initiatic and request the Owner & Operator to install a requirement: Membership begins after the candidate submits a recent (within, say, six months), full-length, nude, frontal photo without a mask of veil. That'll settle a lot of surmising.


lashtal
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Posted by: @dom

Very much a white man's club... much like this forum.

On what evidence do you base this claim, @Dom? 

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @lashtal
Posted by: @dom

Very much a white man's club... much like this forum.

On what evidence do you base this claim, @Dom? 


There are no females here Paul.  The odd one joins, does an intro and then doesn't input to threads.  The guys are mainly British or American "WASPs" as far as I know.  I'd like to see diversity, that was my point.

Maybe bigot Crowley repels certain groups or people.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Posts: 3651
 

I think this forum is probably kind of intimidating to many, male and female, and of all colors and backgrounds. I know that when i first joined many years ago, i was timid about posting. I don't think that this perceived intimidating-ness is on purpose, but most regular posters here are either extremely knowledgeable, extremely crazy, or both.

And forums of all kinds are much less busy/lively than in the past, as Facebook and Reddit have taken over much of the marketplace of online posting. The reddit Thelema group is much busier than this place and seems to get many of the newb/beginner type questions that used to get posted here, and also many more posts by lunatics/Crowley reincarnations/Spring Birds than we get here in recent years. It also has many more female posters and perhaps more non-white posters, though that is tough to gauge.

I see the same pattern of decline in activity on specialized forums, and increased activity on reddit, in other areas i follow like cycling and music recording.


lashtal
(@lashtal)
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Posted by: @dom

There are no females here Paul. The odd one joins, does an intro and then doesn't input to threads.  The guys are mainly British or American "WASPs" as far as I know.

‘As far as I know…’ Quite. 

You don’t know the gender or ethnicity of others  posting here, any more than I do. 

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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