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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/03/2011 4:06 pm  

New AC biography due in September, by Tobias Churton.

http://www.amazon.com/Aleister-Crowley-Biography-Spiritual-Revolutionary/dp/1780280122/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1299597947&sr=1-1

Churton is an good writer, I have his Gnostic Philosophy, which is an enjoyable read (which itself contains a substantial chapter on AC).


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Frater_HPK
(@frater_hpk)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 104
08/03/2011 4:51 pm  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

From authors site:

The year 2010 marks the centenary of the first public trial of the reputation of English poet, explorer, mystic, mountaineer, philosopher and prophet, ALEISTER CROWLEY (1875-1947). For 100 years, Crowley’s name has been smothered with pitch, his true achievements suppressed and his true character deformed and defaced in a campaign of vilification unparalleled in British history.

Crowley’s life has not been written; it has been written over.

Biography after biography has repeated and embellished the myth of the ‘demon Crowley’. Now, the true story can be told.

ALEISTER CROWLEY THE TRUE STORY is the thoroughly researched biography of Aleister Crowley, demolishing the myth, establishing the facts and telling with verve and style the incredibly exciting story of Crowley’s life, including many ‘missing years,’ intrigues, discoveries and extraordinary adventures, revealed and explained, for the first time.

ALEISTER CROWLEY’s unenviable reputation has ensured that writers have been able to say what they like because his reputation has been publicly deemed indefensible. But the ‘public reputation’ is a lie. This book proves it. Almost everything you ever heard about Aleister Crowley before is a myth.
The truth about Crowley is mind-blowing.

UNPRECEDENTED ACCESS

Author TOBIAS CHURTON has enjoyed complete access to all of Crowley’s restricted papers, unpublished letters and personal diaries kept in trust at London’s Warburg Institute and in the archives of Crowley’s Ordo Templi Orientis.

A staggering 90% of the authentic material relating to Aleister Crowley in the Biography has never before been published. This treasure trove reveals hundreds of completely new insights and has dictated a completely fresh approach to this astonishing figure of history and culture.

Churton has enjoyed an extraordinary level of privileged assistance from the O.T.O. organization, inheritor of Crowley’s copyrights. Thousands of pages of unpublished Crowley diaries, rare Crowley documents, photographs and information have been made available without restraint.

Churton has also enjoyed the co-operation of the small band of the world’s Crowley scholars, Dr Marco Pasi, Martin P.Starr and William Breeze, among others, to ensure the status and accuracy of information and interpretation. He has also received support from John Yorke, the son of Gerald Yorke who bequeathed the ‘Yorke Collection’ to the Warburg Institute, including permission to reproduce never before seen artwork of Crowley by Lady Frieda Harris.

The book contains a full investigation of the Crowley family through Alton town records and the Hampshire Department of Records, Winchester, as well as a detailed account of Crowley’s work as a British and Allied spy during World War One and subsequently, in Berlin during the early 1930s. The author has also contacted Crowley’s living relatives, thus filling in missing details regarding Crowley’s fraught family relationships, revealing a never before told story of great emotional impact.

TOBIAS CHURTON is one of the world’s leading scholars of Western Esotericism, specialising in Gnosticism, Freemasonry and Rosicrucianism. As well as being a noted bridge-builder between scholarship and the general reader, Churton’s popular style has been able to place Crowley accurately within the context of Western Esotericism and the emergent global culture that draws upon it.

The combination of so much new source material has created an entirely fresh biography of a 20th century figure as significant in status as Joyce, Einstein, Jung or Freud, a century after Crowley’s reputation was first buried by his enemies. It reveals a man frequently driven by high motives but whose ‘wicked’ and ironic sense of humour, and his espousal of a new religion of ‘light, life and liberty’ was used by his enemies to calumniate him in a manner redolent of witch trials and the psychology of medieval inquisitors with respect to heretics.

ALEISTER CROWLEY THE TRUE STORY contains adventure, intrigue, exploration, sex, romance, secret intelligence, great ideas, authentic mystery, spiritual values, poetry, liberation, revelation and revolution. Above all, it contains the true, astonishing figure of ALEISTER CROWLEY, a figure who will mesmerize and shock the world.

… with rare photographs, the majority previously unpublished

COMMENT ON THE MANUSCRIPT FROM: William Breeze
Chief Executive Officer
Ordo Templi Orientis

I am the chief executive officer of Ordo Templi Orientis, the exclusive owners of the copyrights in the published and unpublished works of Aleister Crowley.

I have carefully read Tobias Churton’s biography of Aleister Crowley and recommend it unreservedly.

While it is not uncritical of its subject, the author stands apart from other biographers by making an attempt to explain Crowley and his world view in a balanced and unprejudiced way.

Previous biographies of Crowley have typically had single print runs because they failed to appeal to the core market: the very large number of people who have a genuine interest in Crowley’s life and ideas.

We have given Mr Churton full access to our archives, and important academic collections whose copyrights we control, and his finished work reflects his in-depth mastery of the material; this is not a biography built on secondary sources, but rather makes very intelligent use of important primary sources, many for the first time.

The FOREWORD to ALEISTER CROWLEY - THE TRUE STORY has been written by DR CHRISTOPHER MCINTOSH, author of THE ROSICRUCIANS, GARDENS OF THE GODS and ELIPHAS LEVI AND THE FRENCH OCCULT REVIVAL

FOREWORD

I first heard of Aleister Crowley in 1964 when I was an undergraduate at Oxford. Having a romantic penchant for the strange and bizarre things of life, I was immediately intrigued by him. I read John Symonds’ biography The Great Beast, which, despite its disparaging tone, further piqued my interest in Crowley. I bought a first edition of his Magick in Theory and Practice and a book of his poems, but it was to be some years before I was able to see beyond Crowley’s sensationalised image and perceive the serious and original thinker that he was.

The man who above all opened my eyes to the deeper dimensions of Crowley was Gerald Yorke, who had become Crowley’s chief disciple in the late 1920s and who features prominently in this book. Breaking off his discipleship after a time, he nevertheless remained on friendly terms with Crowley until the latter’s death in 1947. In fond memory of his old friend, he amassed a large collection of Crowleyana, which he later donated to the Warburg Institute in London and which has provided a key source for this biography. Yorke was a fascinating person, who deserves a biography in his own right – an old Etonian, brilliant scholar at Cambridge, county cricketer for Gloucestershire, Lord of the Manor and later advisor to several publishers in the area of oriental religion, esotericism and related subjects. Among other things, he played a key role in the publication of the Dalai Lama’s works in the West.

I first met Gerald Yorke in February 1969 at an esoteric conference in London, then contacted him a few months later in connection with a projected documentary film on Crowley that I was planning in collaboration with my friend John Phillips, a television film director. We travelled by train to Gloucestershire and spent a wonderful summer day at Yorke’s beautiful ancestral home. He played us a recording of Crowley chanting Enochian invocations in his Churchillian voice, showed us scrapbooks full of Crowley memorabilia and talked endlessly and amusingly about his time with the ‘Old Boy’, as he called him. The film never materialised, but I continued to meet Yorke at intervals until his death in the 1983 and took part in many further conversations with his on the subject of Crowley. While Yorke greatly admired Crowley for his vast knowledge and his mastery of techniques for expanding consciousness, he was sceptical of Crowley’s claim to be the Messiah of the ‘Aeon of Horus’.

Looking back over the more than four decades since Crowley came to my attention, I am struck by the way his posthumous reputation has developed. When I first heard of him his general image was that of an enfant terrible. It seems to be the fate of many English enfant terribles that they start by being reviled and ostracised and end up being taken into the establishment and even given a peerage or some other honour. Crowley, it is true, was very far from being given a peerage and was still widely seen as an enfant terrible when he died, but his posthumous career has been impressive. By the 1970s he had become an icon of the New Age and the counter-culture, celebrated by the Beatles and by Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin. By the 1990s he had begun to be taken seriously within academe, and post-graduate dissertations on him were starting to appear. Today his prolific writings, including his fiction and poetry, are increasingly widely read; the Tarot pack that he designed with Lady Frieda Harris is familiar to Tarot aficionados everywhere; and the Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO), which he took up and developed, is now a thriving organisation with members in many different countries. Even his ideas about the Aeon of Horus are beginning to catch on more widely. One person who has written interestingly on this topic is the highly original esoteric writer Ramsey Dukes. In one of his essays he writes: ‘The New Aeon calls for a new moral approach: God is no longer saying ‘follow my example’, instead humanity is being challenged to stand on its own feet …Horus has thrown down the gauntlet to those spiritual wimps who still cry out for ‘moral leadership’ from their church or their superiors. He asks ‘have you no moral sense of your own?’. (Ramsey Dukes, ‘The Caliphate OTO’ in What I Did in My Holidays; Oxford, Mandrake in collaboration with The Mouse that Spins, 1998, pp. 141-2.)

So Crowley has come a long way since his death in poverty and relative obscurity. However, despite the appearance of a number of biographies of him in the intervening years, no biographer has fully measured up to the task … until now, for in Tobias Churton Crowley has at last found a worthy biographer. Based on intensive research among the papers in the Warburg Institute and other original sources, Churton’s book delivers a far more full and accurate picture of Crowley than ever before. While Churton is not blind to his subject’s flaws, he thoroughly demolishes the farrago of lies and calumnies that have dogged Crowley reputation for so long. Whereas other biographers have tended to take Crowley’s extravagant and deliberate poses at their face value, Churton shows us the real man behind them – a man who genuinely believed in the new vision for humanity which he proclaimed and for which he struggled throughout his life in the face of enormous adversity. Crowley also turns out to have had great human qualities – the letter he wrote to his infant son ‘Aleister Ataturk’ is one of the most moving documents quoted in this book. Churton also makes some astonishing new revelations – for example in connection with Crowley’s extraordinary career as a British secret agent. This was little known until the appearance of Richard Spence’s book Secret Agent 666, and Churton takes the story further and deeper. He also uncovers startling new information about Aiwass, the channelled entity behind The Book of the Law, about Crowley’s role in both the First and Second World Wars, and much more … but I must leave Tobias Churton to let the cats out of the bags. The reader will put down this book with an entirely new perspective on Aleister Crowley. The ‘Old Boy’ would be delighted to have been given a full and fair hearing at last.

Love is the law, love under will.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
Yuggothian
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 2611
08/03/2011 4:52 pm  

The Amazon synopsis says 'Tobias Churton also gives us a detailed account of Crowley's work as a British spy during World War I in Berlin during the early 1930s and during World War II. This information has not been available to any previous biographer. ' I wonder if that is really true or if they are short-changing 'Secret Agent 666' which I haven't read btw. Just curious . I guess we will have to wait and see. I wonder if AC is one of the most biography-d men, sure seems like it!


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Frater_HPK
(@frater_hpk)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 104
08/03/2011 5:02 pm  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

I am especially interrested in following "He also uncovers startling new information about Aiwass, the channelled entity behind The Book of the Law"
🙂

Love is the law, love under will.


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joe93
(@joe93)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 49
08/03/2011 6:53 pm  

There goes my vow to not buy yet another Beastly biography (until the unexpurgated Hag arrives) and try to read about, I dunno, Napoleon or whoever. This looks good...!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/03/2011 6:56 pm  
"Frater_HPK" wrote:
Even his ideas about the Aeon of Horus are beginning to catch on more widely. One person who has written interestingly on this topic is the highly original esoteric writer Ramsey Dukes. In one of his essays he writes: ‘The New Aeon calls for a new moral approach: God is no longer saying ‘follow my example’, instead humanity is being challenged to stand on its own feet …Horus has thrown down the gauntlet to those spiritual wimps who still cry out for ‘moral leadership’ from their church or their superiors. He asks ‘have you no moral sense of your own?’. (Ramsey Dukes, ‘The Caliphate OTO’ in What I Did in My Holidays; Oxford, Mandrake in collaboration with The Mouse that Spins, 1998, pp. 141-2.)

Amen. 🙂


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 915
08/03/2011 7:38 pm  
"Frater_HPK" wrote:
...FROM: William Breeze Chief Executive Officer Ordo Templi Orientis

I am the chief executive officer of Ordo Templi Orientis, the exclusive owners of the copyrights in the published and unpublished works of Aleister Crowley.

What a strange way to start off an endorsement. Even if its legally true its an odd qualifier to combine with ones status as "CEO of OTO." I would imagine one would begin with their qualifications as an editor or some other more pertinent info than legal holdings. I mean he has edited work by AC for something like 35 years now hasn't he?

In any case, the book looks very good. I'm keen to read it myself!

S


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ZIN
 ZIN
(@zin)
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08/03/2011 7:53 pm  

Sounds very intriguing. I'm always interested in new info and tidbits on Crowley... Just can't get enough, I guess. A new POV or angle(?) My anticipation is high. I hope the content lives up to it.


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Horemakhet
(@horemakhet)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 526
08/03/2011 7:59 pm  

This will make it, what- four full bio's within ten years?! I can't really see this one adding too much to the factual odds n' ends after 'Perdurabo'( and the others ); but, I hope it does. Looking forward to this- they certainly know how to hype it!


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michaelclarke18
(@michaelclarke18)
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08/03/2011 9:07 pm  

I can't really see this one adding too much to the factual odds n' ends after 'Perdurabo'( and the others );

Richard K. has had access to the same collections...not much new so far...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/03/2011 9:18 pm  

"I am the chief executive officer of Ordo Templi Orientis, the exclusive owners of the copyrights in the published and unpublished works of Aleister Crowley. [taken by force of litigation after incorporation in California decades after Crowley's death, and therefore without his knowledge or approval, despite many other people having legally published, over many decades, and in many places, a good number of Crowley's published and unpublished writings, before my little group existed in a form able to purse the aggressive and sustained policy of litigation which led me to have these copyrights, and the funds they provide - N.].

I have carefully read Tobias Churton’s biography of Aleister Crowley and recommend it unreservedly. [i.e. it's safe for you to read, if you're in my gang]"

I am continually amazed at the desperate hyperbole which seems to typify the marketing of certain products, and it seems to be often those with clear association with the Caliphate:

"Biography after biography has repeated and embellished the myth of the ‘demon Crowley’. Now, the true story can be told. "

Right. So the slightly saccharine Perdurabo , The Eye in the Triangle (written by someone who actually knew and worked for Crowley) and Do What Thou Wilt simply repeated the 'myth of the demon Crowley' ?

What other "biography after biography" is he referring to which only repeats the 'myth of the demon Crowley' is he talking about? Symonds' book, which nobody has read in decades?

"Tobias Churton is one of the world's leading scholars of western esotericism".

... so why have I never, ever, heard of him before, despite reasonable attention given to this particular field over more than two decades? I mean, sure, obscure is probably good in this field, but I am very wary of "world's leading scholars". They remind me of Professor Henry Brubaker of the Institute of Studies.

"Unprecedented access"

So the Caliphate withheld material from Sutin and Kaszynski and the rest, but gave Churton access to it? Wow. Either this is bullshit too - or it's true, which is even worse!

But for me the real fail comes in the form which it has come many times before. And that is the way in which the Caliphate is referred to by this author as being "the" O.T.O., rather than as simply the only group using that title who had the supreme lack of taste to pursue the course of, firstly profane incorporation (decades after Crowley's death, and therefore without his knowledge or approval) in the state of California, and to then take exclusive Crowley copyrights by force of aggressive and sustained litigation - decades after his published and unpublished works had been published by many other publishers all over the world decades before their particular group existed, - rather than 'inherit' the copyrights by exclusive right, as is wrongly stated in the blurb. Any impartial researcher would be aware of this fact and would subtly acknowledge the controversial nature of their source.

Is it a condition of being allowed access to the material that researchers have to present the provenance via such a skewed and unscholarly lens?

I can't wait until Crowley's work enters the public domain and our intelligences are spared this sort of insulting nonsense.

N.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/03/2011 9:59 pm  

Looks promising; but surely this is only to whet appetites until the definitive definitive one comes out?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/03/2011 10:03 pm  
"Noctifer" wrote:
"I am the chief executive officer of Ordo Templi Orientis, the exclusive owners of the copyrights in the published and unpublished works of Aleister Crowley. [taken by force of litigation after incorporation in California decades after Crowley's death, and therefore without his knowledge or approval, despite many other people having legally published, over many decades, and in many places, a good number of Crowley's published and unpublished writings, before my little group existed in a form able to purse the aggressive and sustained policy of litigation which led me to have these copyrights, and the funds they provide - N.].

I have carefully read Tobias Churton’s biography of Aleister Crowley and recommend it unreservedly. [i.e. it's safe for you to read, if you're in my gang]"

I am continually amazed at the desperate hyperbole which seems to typify the marketing of certain products, and it seems to be often those with clear association with the Caliphate:

"Biography after biography has repeated and embellished the myth of the ‘demon Crowley’. Now, the true story can be told. "

Right. So the slightly saccharine Perdurabo , The Eye in the Triangle (written by someone who actually knew and worked for Crowley) and Do What Thou Wilt simply repeated the 'myth of the demon Crowley' ?

What other "biography after biography" is he referring to which only repeats the 'myth of the demon Crowley' is he talking about? Symonds' book, which nobody has read in decades?

"Tobias Churton is one of the world's leading scholars of western esotericism".

... so why have I never, ever, heard of him before, despite reasonable attention given to this particular field over more than two decades? I mean, sure, obscure is probably good in this field, but I am very wary of "world's leading scholars". They remind me of Professor Henry Brubaker of the Institute of Studies.

"Unprecedented access"

So the Caliphate withheld material from Sutin and Kaszynski and the rest, but gave Churton access to it? Wow. Either this is bullshit too - or it's true, which is even worse!

But for me the real fail comes in the form which it has come many times before. And that is the way in which the Caliphate is referred to by this author as being "the" O.T.O., rather than as simply the only group using that title who had the supreme lack of taste to pursue the course of, firstly profane incorporation (decades after Crowley's death, and therefore without his knowledge or approval) in the state of California, and to then take exclusive Crowley copyrights by force of aggressive and sustained litigation - decades after his published and unpublished works had been published by many other publishers all over the world decades before their particular group existed, - rather than 'inherit' the copyrights by exclusive right, as is wrongly stated in the blurb. Any impartial researcher would be aware of this fact and would subtly acknowledge the controversial nature of their source.

Is it a condition of being allowed access to the material that researchers have to present the provenance via such a skewed and unscholarly lens?

I can't wait until Crowley's work enters the public domain and our intelligences are spared this sort of insulting nonsense.

N.

Rhubarb.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/03/2011 10:04 pm  

freemason cock suckers get all the access


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/03/2011 10:17 pm  
"deadclan" wrote:
freemason cock suckers get all the access

So you registered 4 years ago and waited si long to bestow this one pearl of wisdom? I wouldn't be so harsh on Churton: his synthesis of academic rigour and divulgative prose has made him one of my favourite authors in the field of w.e. Let's not judge the book by its cover, literally.


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 686
08/03/2011 10:48 pm  

The combination of the blurb and the authors website certainly make this a book I'd want to see (though I do understand Noctifer's position and have to wonder if those OTO members who had been waving Kaczynski at me as "The absolute last word in Crowley biography" will now do it with this...)

Pity that they pulled the guts out of that Dukes quote too,
with ellipsis filled it reads:

'The New Aeon calls for a new moral approach: God is no longer saying "follow my example", instead humanity is being challenged to stand on its own feet.

In what sense are Jehovah, Christ and Horus (for example) different Gods, and in what sense are they the same? Consider a typical child growing up: when it is a toddler the parents seem like Jehovah, giving absolute commands which must be obeyed (for the toddler's own safety, in fact). Once it begins to think for itself the parents seem less like forces of nature and more like superior humans: like Christ they try to teach by example and appeals to the child's conscience - a necessary advance but it can lead to an exaggerated idea of how "perfect" they are. Then comes adolescence, when the parents begin to seem obstructive, opinionated and angry like Horus - you are in fact being challenged to grow up and become adult.

That is what the Aeon of Horus will be about: we too are now Gods...but only just! Each of us has our own "True Will" - and "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". But notice the future tense "shall": the real challenge of the Aeon of Horus is to set out on the journey to discover our true wills, and not get stuck in the adolescent arrogance typified by, say, the rationalist who denies all spiritual principles.

Horus has thrown down the gauntlet to those spiritual wimps who still cry out for "moral leadership" from their church or their superiors. He asks "have you no moral sense of your own?".

Gotta love Duke's nuances. 😉


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/03/2011 10:58 pm  
"amadan-De" wrote:
That is what the Aeon of Horus will be about: we too are now Gods...but only just! Each of us has our own "True Will" - and "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". But notice the future tense "shall": the real challenge of the Aeon of Horus is to set out on the journey to discover our true wills.

Well put, amadan-De. I would just add, "and raise children so as not to loose track of those true Wills in the first place."


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 686
08/03/2011 11:08 pm  
"Camlion" wrote:
"amadan-De" wrote:
That is what the Aeon of Horus will be about: we too are now Gods...but only just! Each of us has our own "True Will" - and "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law". But notice the future tense "shall": the real challenge of the Aeon of Horus is to set out on the journey to discover our true wills.

Well put, amadan-De. I would just add, "and raise children so as not to loose track of those true Wills in the first place."

Thanks but I can't take the credit - it's all Dukes. I'd recommend anything by him.

In my experience and understanding (possibly helped in part by being related to someone who worked with Piaget and others - or maybe ruled out for the same reason 🙂 ) the problem is not that young children lose track of their true wills but that 'we', even with the best of intentions, will insist on guiding them to 'ours' in order to produce "common ground" for instruction. Bit of a wire-walk really.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/03/2011 11:21 pm  
"amadan-De" wrote:
In my experience and understanding (possibly helped in part by being related to someone who worked with Piaget and others - or maybe ruled out for the same reason 🙂 ) the problem is not that young children lose track of their true wills but that 'we', even with the best of intentions, will insist on guiding them to 'ours' in order to produce "common ground" for instruction. Bit of a wire-walk really.

Agreed. Between the Child's environment and ego, the distractions are many.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
08/03/2011 11:33 pm  
"Camlion" wrote:
Rhubarb.

Scientology.


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 686
08/03/2011 11:44 pm  
"Camlion" wrote:
Agreed. Between the Child's environment and ego, the distractions are many.

Lol. Is that the Child's ego or 'ours'?
Interesting that Montessori, whose ideas I have a lot of time for, was carrying out her observations on "the child's true normal nature" in the first few years of the 20th century....funny thing synchronicity.

P.S. I do hope we're getting custard with all this rhubarb, especially if coming with a side-order of Scientology.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 4054
09/03/2011 12:07 am  
"Camlion" wrote:
Rhubarb.

No, it's not "Rhubarb". It's simply a point of view with which you disagree.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
09/03/2011 12:23 am  
"amadan-De" wrote:
"Camlion" wrote:
Agreed. Between the Child's environment and ego, the distractions are many.

Lol. Is that the Child's ego or 'ours'?

Parents are the greatest obstacles, no doubt.

"amadan-De" wrote:
Interesting that Montessori, whose ideas I have a lot of time for, was carrying out her observations on "the child's true normal nature" in the first few years of the 20th century....funny thing synchronicity.

Indeed. 😉

"amadan-De" wrote:
P.S. I do hope we're getting custard with all this rhubarb, especially if coming with a side-order of Scientology.

Pure rhubarb. 🙂


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 915
09/03/2011 12:26 am  

Cam there is a vast difference between the WBWR Rhubarb nonsense and Nocs articulate and well presented points. He raises valid questions and the press release is rather "hyped"

S


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
09/03/2011 12:47 am  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
Cam there is a vast difference between the WBWR Rhubarb nonsense and Nocs articulate and well presented points. He raises valid questions and the press release is rather "hyped"

S

One thing I will say for sure is that I'd be happier seeing AC's writ protected in perpetuity by the one and only OTO, in keeping with AC's intent, than to see it open to the adulteration that would inevitably follow without that protection. Noc's two decades of interest in the subject matter may not be long enough for him to remember the time before that protection was in place.

As for why Beta chose to use his legal title as an officer of the corporation here, I can't say, except perhaps that it is a legal title that not just anyone can use. Anyone can call themselves OHO or Frater Superior or XII*, and many have. Beyond that observation, I am at a loss to explain it. I have been perplexed by Beta's choices from time to time.


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
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Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 915
09/03/2011 12:52 am  

Can you yourself sang the praises of 93 publishing's BOTL which predated the "protections." I also think Billy was an employee there at one time.

Seriously, you think the OTO inc protects Crowley's intent? What if they discovered Crowley materials that contradicted their own claims. Would those be protected out of the way and into the memory hole?

Frankly, when anyone can publish the material it will all come down to quality on what ends up selling and making money back. It *is* about who makes the prophet, isnt it.


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Palamedes
(@palamedes)
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Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 450
09/03/2011 1:05 am  
"Camlion" wrote:
One thing I will say for sure is that I'd be happier seeing AC's writ protected in perpetuity by the one and only OTO, in keeping with AC's intent, than to see it open to the adulteration that would inevitably follow without that protection. Noc's two decades of interest in the subject matter may not be long enough for him to remember the time before that protection was in place.

Well said Camlion. Whoever doubts the quality of OTO's handling of A.C. material should compare Regardie's version of "The Vision and the Voice" with the one in Equinox, IV: 1. Or compare Book IV with Grant/Symonds "Magick." Don't get me wrong: I admire Grant as a writer but as an editor and scholar, he just doesn't come close to H.B.

One of the functions of the OTO is to be a custodian of Crowley's literary legacy. Why is that such a bone of contention? They are just doing their job and if people find it morally flawed, well, there's nothing one can do about it, is there?

I also don't get it why people have an issue with the "media hype" around the book. Should they maybe advertise by saying: this is not a very good book, and the author is not well known, and it is probably the same-old same-old, so maybe you should think twice before buying it? Very weird.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
09/03/2011 1:05 am  
"Camlion" wrote:
One thing I will say for sure is that I'd be happier seeing AC's writ protected in perpetuity by the one and only OTO,

You mean the one Crowley got kicked out of?

As for why Beta [you mean "William Breeze" - N. ] chose to use his legal title as an officer of the corporation here, I can't say, except perhaps that it is a legal title that not just anyone can use. Anyone can call themselves OHO or Frater Superior or XII*, and many have.

Yes, he called himself "Chief Executive Officer" in this particular instance.

There never existed such a title in the Ordo Templi Orientis (the magical order, I mean, not the Californian publishing business incorporated in 1982).

( What is the entry-level grade called now, I wonder? Receptionist? )


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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09/03/2011 1:12 am  
"Iskandar" wrote:
"Camlion" wrote:
One thing I will say for sure is that I'd be happier seeing AC's writ protected in perpetuity by the one and only OTO, in keeping with AC's intent, than to see it open to the adulteration that would inevitably follow without that protection. Noc's two decades of interest in the subject matter may not be long enough for him to remember the time before that protection was in place.

Well said Camlion. Whoever doubts the quality of OTO's handling of A.C. material should compare Regardie's version of "The Vision and the Voice" with the one in Equinox, IV: 1. Or compare Book IV with Grant/Symonds "Magick."

Exactly, and these are but two of many examples from the past. Today, with so many 'creative' Thelemites among us, I prefer that a high degree of quality control be in place on the publishing side.


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
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09/03/2011 1:14 am  
"Iskandar" wrote:
I admire Grant as a writer but as an editor and scholar, he just doesn't come close to H.B.

Thats a matter of opinion and one I, and many others here, disagree with. I find HB adds nothing to Crowley other than copious footnotes from his personal horde of Crowley materials in his home... er OTO archive.

"Iskandar" wrote:
One of the functions of the OTO is to be a custodian of Crowley's literary legacy. Why is that such a bone of contention? They are just doing their job and if people find it morally flawed, well, there's nothing one can do about it, is there?

Because in some people's view they lose the rest of their charter and do nothing more than sit on the literary legacy of Crowley. At least they are presenting as a corporation and not a mystical order.

I also don't get it why people have an issue with the "media hype" around the book. Should they maybe advertise by saying: this is not a very good book, and the author is not well known, and it is probably the same-old same-old, so maybe you should think twice before buying it? Very weird.

Because the same sickening hype surrounded Gunther's little book. Because intelligent people tend to resent the blatant manipulation of marketing speak and hyperbole. Because the same high praise was sung for Perdurabo... Noc raises very good questions about this. Was this author given more access?

Is there an even greater level of access to be had for the editors of the unabridged confessions?

Seriously, this is absurd. Billy B is a businessman and I salute him for finally showing his true colors as such. You do realize he is behind the Parsons/Cameron foundation and is sitting on the "copyrights" of the Parsons materials. A huge lot went up for sale recently only to disappear into the OTO - er - Parsons Cameron Foundation archives..
That will never see the light of day, Im sure.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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09/03/2011 2:03 am  

I think the point is we have a large amount of high quality books being published which can only be good for Thelema as a whole, the people publishing these works are doing it as a service out of love, they don’t make any sort of money from these books that compensates for the years of work spent putting them together.
There are two sorts of people, the people that moan and the people who get things done.
Gerard
20 years in the “Bonds of the Order” and loving it.


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einDoppelganger
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09/03/2011 2:12 am  
"gkraay" wrote:
I think the point is we have a large amount of high quality books being published which can only be good for Thelema as a whole, the people publishing these works are doing it as a service out of love, they don’t make any sort of money from these books that compensates for the years of work spent putting them together.
There are two sorts of people, the people that moan and the people who get things done.
Gerard
20 years in the “Bond of the Order”

There were plenty of people "getting things done" before the work was placed (for a fleeting time) under the "protections" of copyright.

gkraay: Your argument means nothing when no one else is able to do anything with the AC materials since the cOTO sits on the copyrights.
Before Billy there were plenty of publishers putting out material ranging from very high to very low quality (Billy-boy included in that!). Whats important is that the material was out there. Now you have Duquette and company as well as a handful of other items. You get the crap quality of things like the new Moonchild but I suspect there will be lovely editions to follow. Once the works fall into public domain there will be a lulu.com explosion but also a flowering of fine editions with and without commentary.

Now there is one gatekeeper who places their own stamp of approval on all missives. The interpretations are all their own but taken as fact. These old hippies didn't even know the Man of Earth degrees corresponded to Chakras until it was found by Wasserman in a marginal note. It isn't like they were the recipients of transmitted knowledge or secret Gnosis...
they are just men with lawyers and a horde of papers in their clubouse.

I'm sorry to hear about your bondage. You have my deepest sympathy.


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 Anonymous
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09/03/2011 2:22 am  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
I'm sorry to hear about your bondage. You have my deepest sympathy.

I have never been so free. I am very grateful for the work these authors and publishers do for us in the service of Nu.

93


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einDoppelganger
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09/03/2011 2:26 am  

Faaab...

I have never been so grateful for the work many authors and commentators did in the past and could do again for the literature and for Thelema as a whole.

I look forward to their time - which is coming.


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 Anonymous
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09/03/2011 2:29 am  

Oh yes, so when are Crowley’s works in the public domain then?


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Frater_HPK
(@frater_hpk)
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Posts: 104
09/03/2011 2:30 am  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

Things are very simple. I live in Serbia. This country was part of Yugoslavia, and Yugoslavia had the biggest number of OTO members after USa in one moment. While OTO published Crowley's books and Liber L, we had a lot of members. These books were poor in quality, printed on 9-pin printers and then photopied. Impression was about 100 copies. Libel L was published in 93 copies. OK, later commercial publisher start to illegaly publish Crowley. And Liber L was sold in more than 15000 copies. Very little people come to ask to join Order. A lot of Thelemites were attracted to OTO reading poor quality boks, but very less reading bettter quality books published by commercial publisher. Books are sometimes talismans... not just the books.

Love is the law, love under will.

B.


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einDoppelganger
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09/03/2011 2:37 am  
"gkraay" wrote:
Oh yes, so when are Crowley’s works in the public domain then?

No no, when they do I'm sure the boys in the clubhouse will still keep you in bondage. Its ok, I didn't mean to scare you.

Frater_HPK : Well put! I have heard that the Solar lodge BOTL is an impressive thing to hold. It was obviously made with love..

Oh, Billy bought one of the only two I know of for his collection... I mean the archive... the archive!


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 Anonymous
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09/03/2011 2:45 am  

einDoppelganger -

It’s a simple question; you were going on about Crowley’s work one day being in the public domain. I would be interested in knowing when?
93


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 Anonymous
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09/03/2011 2:48 am  

Well, it is what it is, after all. Personally, I've long considered the OTO Initiatory program to be experimental (and I believe that AC did too), since the only IX*s I knew or knew of were battlefield promotions made by Grady. In any case, I did not look to that source for my own Initiation. As for who is the 'real' OTO, I have zero interest in the pre-Crowley OTO, and even less interest in any that do not even resemble Crowley's OTO. Other Order names are better suited. And as for publishing, there is no real money in publishing occult books, and it takes a lot of time and other resources to put AC's books right prior to publication. Finally, anyone really looking forward to the great AC literary liberation ought to look further into the facts, and put the emotions aside for a bit.


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Frater_HPK
(@frater_hpk)
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09/03/2011 2:51 am  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
"gkraay" wrote:
Oh yes, so when are Crowley’s works in the public domain then?

No no, when they do I'm sure the boys in the clubhouse will still keep you in bondage. Its ok, I didn't mean to scare you.

Frater_HPK : Well put! I have heard that the Solar lodge BOTL is an impressive thing to hold. It was obviously made with love..

Oh, Billy bought one of the only two I know of for his collection... I mean the archive... the archive!

With due respect our edition from beginning of the eighries was published by Sol Oasis from Ljubljana, not Solar Lodge and we would like not to be compared with californian Solar Logde. 🙂

BTW, my words should not be confused with some new "talismanic books", also. With due respect for some of authors who published such books, it seems to me like good way for solding books. Luxury edition, provocative title and very high price. And the result is that majority of these books buy collectors who don't understand them and very possible are not interested at all what is written inside. But it is good for collection. A little off topic and I apologise because of this.

Love is the law, love under will.

B.


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einDoppelganger
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09/03/2011 2:59 am  
"gkraay" wrote:
einDoppelganger -

It’s a simple question; you were going on about Crowley’s work one day being in the public domain. I would be interested in knowing when?
93

*yawn*
Are you trying to imply that OTO inc does not face an expiration on some of the Crowley materials? It varies depending on the publishing date and history of the document in question. You would know this if your hands weren't tied and you were able to do the same google search as everyone else.

Its sad that all you can see fit to do is try and drag this into the particulars of copyright law when you know the answer full well. The recent publication of Moonchild, while a poor release, shows that some materials are indeed in public domain.


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einDoppelganger
(@eindoppelganger)
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09/03/2011 3:01 am  
"Frater_HPK" wrote:
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
"gkraay" wrote:
Oh yes, so when are Crowley’s works in the public domain then?

No no, when they do I'm sure the boys in the clubhouse will still keep you in bondage. Its ok, I didn't mean to scare you.

Frater_HPK : Well put! I have heard that the Solar lodge BOTL is an impressive thing to hold. It was obviously made with love..

Oh, Billy bought one of the only two I know of for his collection... I mean the archive... the archive!

With due respect our edition from beginning of the eighries was published by Sol Oasis from Ljubljana, not Solar Lodge and we would like not to be compared with californian Solar Logde. 🙂

BTW, my words should not be confused with some new "talismanic books", also. With due respect for some of authors who published such books, it seems to me like good way for solding books. Luxury edition, provocative title and very high price. And the result is that majority of these books buy collectors who don't understand them and very possible are not interested at all what is written inside. But it is good for collection. A little off topic and I apologise because of this.

Love is the law, love under will.

B.

It was clear you are not Solar Lodge.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
09/03/2011 4:56 am  
"Frater_HPK" wrote:
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law

Things are very simple. I live in Serbia. This country was part of Yugoslavia, and Yugoslavia had the biggest number of OTO members after USa in one moment. While OTO published Crowley's books and Liber L, we had a lot of members. These books were poor in quality, printed on 9-pin printers and then photopied. Impression was about 100 copies. Libel L was published in 93 copies. OK, later commercial publisher start to illegaly publish Crowley. And Liber L was sold in more than 15000 copies. Very little people come to ask to join Order. A lot of Thelemites were attracted to OTO reading poor quality boks, but very less reading bettter quality books published by commercial publisher. Books are sometimes talismans... not just the books.

Love is the law, love under will.

B.

It is great to hear that the writings of Aleister Crowley, particularly Liber L, are so well-received in the former Yugoslavia. Thanks for the info!

Your part of the world has had its share of religious trouble (Old Aeon religions of Christianity and Islam being involved) in the recent past; to see Thelema take root there is really encouraging. I sincerely hope it continues to do so, and in doing so, unites mankind in the true Cosmic brotherhood which is its birthright, rendering the Old Aeon idiocies obsolete. It does not require joining the O.T.O. or anyone else, as you mention, for it to do so. All it requires is for The Law of Thelema to be known and accepted (Do what thou wilt) and lived. Crowley's writings - as well as their interpretation by other living individuals of the day in which one happens to live - are inspirational and instructional in this regard.

I understand what you mean about the words/content of the books being the 'talisman', not the properties of the physical object of the book.

This is certainly the case with much of Crowley's work (the talismanic virtues of his special editions notwithstanding): some of the most influential editions in history are one-off 'bootleg' photocopies produced on a shoestring budget by diehard students (as McMurtry's photocopy of Kenneth Grant's books, recenly on sale, shows). The words themselves are magical and transformative and the more widely available these are, the quicker the spread of Thelema will be.

A single organisation trying to monopolise the publishing situation in order to capitalise from the revenue it produces is an obstacle, not vehicle, to the spread of Thelema, in my opinion (only).

On a level playing field, may the best editions win. Until that level playing field arrives, we're stuck with the Breeze version of everything. People will acquire the editions which serve them best, in any case. I have a copy of the Blue Brick (1992 or something), and the footnotes are really good, but they weren't in Crowley's editions, and so are therefore just as irrelevant as anything which Grant or Motta might have added, where "Crowley's intent" is concerned. That, despite the pretences to "objective" "scientistic" scholarship and/or fulfilment of "Crowley's Intent" which they often bear.

---

Camlion, it's interesting you agree the O.T.O. was just an experiment. It had to be because Crowley had never done it before, and neither had anyone else (at least not in the form he adapted it to).

People read Crowley's ideas (in whatever edition, hand-made if need be), and then they are attracted to the O.T.O. (not the other way around), because Crowley writes about the O.T.O. and they have an idea that here is a proven model of Thelemic society for the future. But it isn't, and never was, a proven model of anything.

I personally think that, like Crowley's other experiment, the A.A., it quickly proved itself in need of fundamental reforms very early on, and really wasn't ever terribly impressive as a reality during his lifetime, nor in the decades since, not in the form which he knew. He was a great writer, magus and thinker, but a crap sociologist and psychologist, with one ball in the Old Aeon and the other one in the New. He really wasn't ever in a position to design ideal societies, Thelema or no Thelema.

---

Anyway, this fascinating and eminently appropriate subject is all perhaps worth exploring deeper in another thread. As far as this book goes, I've been turned off by the blurb.

At least nobody can say "Oh, but it's not the author's fault, he isn't responsible for the marketing" this time, the blurb is from the author's own website.

N.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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09/03/2011 7:30 am  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
"gkraay" wrote:
einDoppelganger -

It’s a simple question; you were going on about Crowley’s work one day being in the public domain. I would be interested in knowing when?
93

*yawn*
Are you trying to imply that OTO inc does not face an expiration on some of the Crowley materials? It varies depending on the publishing date and history of the document in question. You would know this if your hands weren't tied and you were able to do the same google search as everyone else.

Its sad that all you can see fit to do is try and drag this into the particulars of copyright law when you know the answer full well. The recent publication of Moonchild, while a poor release, shows that some materials are indeed in public domain.

Scott: I am not trying to drag this discussion into copyright law, I don’t know anything about it.

I was only asking because I was interested in the answer, I have no idea when the materials enter the public domain.

You sounded like you had knowledge regarding it. If I get interested enough I will go and look for the information myself.

Gerard
93 93/93


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einDoppelganger
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09/03/2011 8:31 am  

Gerard : My apologies if I misread your intent - this discussion often trails into emotional territory.

If I am not mistaken much of Crowley's work published before 1975 will expire within the next 10 years. Anything published in the mid 70s and after expires around 2029. Anything unpublished I believe remains property of the holder until printed then it is protected as a new work.
This extends to the Warburg materials which serve as primary source materials. This means you cannot go publish a book of AC's letters that were written in 1929 because they have never been published before and remain the property of the copyright holder. Thats my understanding having dealt with the very convoluted trail of Lovecraft's copyrights. I am more than happy to be corrected here as I'm sure I have made some errors somewhere along the way.

Here is a useful article on the topic.
http://patentpending.blogs.com/patent_pending_blog/2004/12/when_does_a_cop.html

I think the matter is further complicated by international copyright issues... Its also rendered moot with digital distribution becoming the norm .

S


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 Anonymous
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09/03/2011 9:04 am  

Scott: No problem at all, easy to be misunderstood in forums. That link is very interesting, it’s seems quite complicated.

Your right that with the proliferation of writing on the internet, it really only matters to ardent bibliophiles like my self, I admit to having many books on the self yet to be read. Still love the feel of a book, reading on the pc makes my head hurt.

93 93/93

Gerard


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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09/03/2011 10:22 am  

93!

It is really kind of strange to see how emotional people still get about the publication of a book and the pre-publication or back-cover blurbs that are designed to sell it. I see no real difference in selling one thing as The Heart of Magick and the Core of Mysticism and another thing as written by The world's leading scholar of western esotericism. It's also kind of really sad that rhubarb like I have carefully read Tobias Churton’s biography of Aleister Crowley and recommend it unreservedly. [i.e. it's safe for you to read, if you're in my gang] or we're stuck with the Breeze version of everything is defended as an articulate and well presented point or that forum members are ridiculed as unable to do the same google searches because their hands are tied. But as Scott also said in a later post concerning the Lovecraft papers, it is frustrating for those who would like to have access to everything they want that copyrights and private archives exist, but they do and I am confident I won't get access to Mr. Grant's (or the OTO's) archives just because I would like to. I am sure many people (including me) are looking forward to a future Kenneth Grant biography. It will be interesting to see how independent its author will be or if it will be just another Luxury edition, provocative title and very high price, a description by the way that does not fit the OTO publications. I am very happy that there will be another AC biography and I understand completely that it is not advertised as well-meant, well-crafted, but really useless and redundant after "Perdurabo". If you check out the various auction and bookselling houses (not to mention the ever-growing number of government files that are made public or library holdings that are digitized) it is absolutely obvious why any access to an ever-growing archive is per definition unprecedented and it is really ridiculous to make a point about it at all. Biographies without access to that archive also exist, and who wants to read them? Anybody really thinks the OTO got money out of a New Falcon or a Coronet publication? There still are people who think that John Symonds or Colin Wilson wrote the definitive AC biographies, so why lament abot the definition of definitive? I am surprised and delighted that a publisher still sees a market for another AC biography (and yes, Chris, AC must be one of the most biographed men) and anyone who believes in the "truth" of back-cover blurbs or gets too excited about the "un-truth" of back-cover blurbs should really try to get over that soon. Or at least wait until the book is published. I am looking forward to it...

Love=Law
Lutz


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 Anonymous
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09/03/2011 12:36 pm  
"the_real_simon_iff" wrote:
93!

It is really kind of strange to see how emotional people still get about the publication of a book and the pre-publication or back-cover blurbs that are designed to sell it.

You're certainly entitled to your view of other people's views, as they are to have them in the first place. The blurb is simply not true. This guy is not "one of the world's leading scholars" in anything at all, not according to anyone that I am aware of. Can you find me a reference where he is declared one of the world's leading scholars, prior to this blurb? Has he been given unprecedented access to archives that nobody else has seen? Is this actually the FIRST BIOGRAPHY which doesn't simply repeat the "myth" of the "demon Crowley"?

Simply: no, no it isn't.

These are not reasonable claims. They are ridiculous. Fraudulent, possibly. Patterns, patterns, patterns.

I have a right to object to being lied to.

I see no real difference in selling one thing as The Heart of Magick and the Core of Mysticism and another thing as written by The world's leading scholar of western esotericism.

I do. I don't think they're in any way akin at all actually. What a wierd comparison. One is stating something which is simply not true, and can be proven to be untrue. The other is a qualitative and quite general, and poetic, indicator of content and mission. They're nothing alike at all. Saying you're one of the leading ANYTHING in the world demands supporting evidence. Subtitling a book as the "heart" or "core" of something like magick and mysticism is clearly a different thing altogether, if it actually contains material which is explicitly intended as falling into those categories.

It's also kind of really sad that rhubarb like I have carefully read Tobias Churton’s biography of Aleister Crowley and recommend it unreservedly. [i.e. it's safe for you to read, if you're in my gang] or we're stuck with the Breeze version of everything is defended as an articulate and well presented point

I think Scott was referring to the rest of the several other points I raised, not just this one (which is in fact quite articulate and well-presented, at least according to at least two members, although you're entitled to your opinion of it too).

I am sure many people (including me) are looking forward to a future Kenneth Grant biography. It will be interesting to see how independent its author will be

I hope they're not "independent" at all, actually, if by 'independent' you mean they don't know the person they're writing about. If you mean instead that you wonder whether the authors will be members of Grant's order, then that is no comparison to make as there is no post-Grant schism as to who leads the Typhonian Order (at least, insofar as I, a total outsider, am able to tell, which is as far as anyone here can tell) in the same way there has been with all of Crowley's groups. Thus, there is no question of "independence" or not in the sense of whether Grant's legacy will be seen through the lens of tacit validation of one or another opposing faction of his Order (as in the case of the post-Crowley O.T.O.), as there is no opposing faction claiming to be the real Typhonian Order and incorporating the name legally and purchasing languishing copyrights after decades of other people publishing his work in order to validate aggressive claims to copyrights to which they have no inherited right. It's really not an appropriate comparison at all.

I would imagine several biographies will appear of Grant, Mike Magee has declared he's writing one and he's suggested others may do so as well. I don't know any of the people involved but I presume they all have different stories to tell, and I look forward to reading all of them, both Typhonian Order - friendly and Typhonian Order - critical. (I am not a member of the Typhonian Order, or any other, just to be clear).

It says something of the diminutive nature of Crowley's version of the O.T.O. and A.A. at the time of his death that nobody, not even Germer, produced a decent biography of him in the generation immediately after him. (Apart from pre-Caliphate OTO member and Crowley's personally appointed literary executor John Symonds, of course, but this one gets trashed all the time, usually because it is critical. Obviously knowing the guy doesn't count for much in some people's eyes. The fact that he was Crowley's personally appointed literary executor upon the latter's death also, apparently, doesn't mean much to some 😀 ).

Who better qualified to produce such a thing than someone who knew the person? That's most of the value of Regardie's work, of P.R. Stephenson's book, and for that matter, Grant's own biographical material on Crowley (such as his wonderfully affectionate Remembering Aleister Crowley and his editorial work on the Hag and elsewhere).

If you check out the various auction and bookselling houses (not to mention the ever-growing number of government files that are made public or library holdings that are digitized) it is absolutely obvious why any access to an ever-growing archive is per definition unprecedented and it is really ridiculous to make a point about it at all.

I can't tell what this was supposed to mean, sorry. Do you mean, the archives regarding Crowley should all be digitized and made accessible (perhaps for a small fee)? If so, I agree.

Anybody really thinks the OTO got money out of a New Falcon or a Coronet publication?

I have no idea. I just tried to check Koenig's site, where documents which could answer this may be possibly found, but it appears to be down.

There still are people who think that John Symonds or Colin Wilson wrote the definitive AC biographies, so why lament abot the definition of definitive?

Because it's silly, perhaps?

I am surprised and delighted that a publisher still sees a market for another AC biography

Me too. I was actually excited when I clicked on this thread originally, but it was all downhill once I started reading the blurb.

anyone who believes in the "truth" of back-cover blurbs or gets too excited about the "un-truth" of back-cover blurbs should really try to get over that soon. Or at least wait until the book is published. I am looking forward to it...

I presume you mean me. I, too, can't wait to hear how this new biography - a product of a "world's leading scholar of Western Esotericism" (although he's never been called that by anyone before), based on unprecedented access to secret archives (although it's very, very unlikely that the other recent biographers who used identical sources didn't have identical access), endorsed unreservedly by the C.E.O. of O.T.O. Incorporated no less (unsurprisingly as it lends further weight to his controversial posturing), will fare. I'm sure it will be well-written and entertaining, at least, going on what others have said here about the author's writing. I'm all for more and more and more bios of A.C..

But if they're going to present relatively unknown authors as "world's leading experts", and rely on ridiculous hyperbole such as claiming to be the FIRST BIOGRAPHY EVER to tell THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT ALEISTER CROWLEY, my excitement will likely take the unfortunate course which it has here.

Best regards,
N.


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 Anonymous
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09/03/2011 1:05 pm  

Actually, that last bit is the main gripe: the "first biography ever which doesn't just repeat the myth of the demon Crowley".

As far as I'm aware, no biography (and many have been written) of Crowley simply repeats any such "myth". Even Symonds' was based on his own personal knowledge of the man, having known him personally. More than his later biographers can say.


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michaelclarke18
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Posts: 1264
09/03/2011 1:05 pm  

I for one, am quite happy to see the copyrights expire. The amount of Crowleys' work published over the past few years has been pityful.

Many years ago there used to be many titles available - now, very little. I'm not sure the Caphiliate OTO is doing such a good job of propagating Crowley's legacy.


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