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Ruthvah: Crowley's sex-appeal ointment


Falcon
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"The aroma of Aleister Crowley came from the 'sex-appeal' ointment with which he smeared himself. He called this unguent 'Ruthvah: the Perfume of Immortality'. It was made up of one part ambergris, two parts musk, and three parts civet, aphrodisiacs which contributed to his attraction for women; and horses, too, if it is true, as he said, that they whinnied after him when he passed along the street. 'It must be rubbed into the body, ' wrote the Master Therion, 'particularly at the roots of the hair where the skin is not too tightly stretched, so thoroughly that the subtle perfume of the preparation is not detected, or even suspected, by others. The user is thus armed with a most powerful weapon, the more potent for being secret, against the deepest elements in the nature of those whom it is wished to attract. They obey, and they are all the more certainly compelled to obey, because they do not know that they are being commanded.'

The Great Beast by John Symonds

Have any other Lashtalians used Ruthvah with success?

http://www.sorcerers-apprentice.co.uk/ruthvah.htm


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 Anonymous
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I used to buy some items from a herbalist in the wilds of county Durham called Margaret Bruce many years ago and she became a good friend until her passing. One of the items she sold was a perfume she called Satyr which she claimed was created from the "True" Ruthvah recipe using purely natural ingredients as passed to her from a relative - who allegedly supplied AC. As she kindly gave me a bottle, I can confirm that it has a very heady, musky scent which to be honest, I can't see how even a small amount would be undetectable to others! During the couple of occassions I have applied the scent, I can't remember much whinning from the ladies in the street. But that may be just me!

As an asside, that Sorcerer's Apprentice site is a thing of beauty!


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belmurru
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I used to blend 1 part "ambergris", 2 parts "musk" and 3 parts "civet" in '93-94, and again 2000-2001; it seemed to work for me, or at least gave me that "edge", because those were amorously prolific years. But obviously there is more to it than just turning heads; you have to be able to back it up with the normal things - charm, wit, self-confidence, reasonably good looks, an air of mystery, and cash (at least part of the time). Having a coterie of women around you who obviously adore you generates its own success.

I put the ingredients in scare quotes because it seems Ambergris is banned in the US, and trade in Civet is severly restricted in general. I doubt therefore - besides the price, which even at 100 dollars an ounce is too cheap to be real - that the ingredients were real. Reading around, it seems even the major perfumeries use synthetics now (Chanel "No. 5, Calvin Klein "Obsession").

I developed my own recipe of all-natural ingredients, made by my own body, last year, and it had the same effect, if not better. The trouble is that I really wasn't fishing, so I had to stop casting my line. Nevertheless, I'm starting to make a new batch, since I like to get that kind of attention anyway, even when I have no intention of acting on it. The production of the scent is itself a healthy exercise, both physically and emotionally.

Remember that Aleister was always on the prowl, and had no qualms about prostitutes and random adulteries. It was not only a different time, but he was a different kind of person.

BTW, I never noticed horses whinny, or any animals take notice, even though I tested that assertion specifically.

Like deugar, I have to agree that it is hard to see how it could ever go unnoticed. One woman even noted to me "Your wife lets you go out smelling like THAT?" It seemed to me that it is best very subtle, when you have not bathed for a day and your clothing is imbued with it as well. It's all just part of a package - you yourself -, there is no magic bullet that will get a legion of horny zombie women chasing you.


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Los
 Los
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So that's what they put in Axe Body Spray!


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michaelclarke18
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I put the ingredients in scare quotes because it seems Ambergris is banned in the US, and trade in Civet is severly restricted in general.

Creating something like the original perfume, presents huge problems for those who wish try. Most of the original ingredients available in Crowley's day are simply no longer available or banned - as belmurru states. In the case of Ambergris (produced in the digestive system of sperm whales), when it can be found the price is pretty prohibitive.

Of course, synthetic reformulations are available - but it's very doubtful whether they would react with each other in quite the same way as the original ingredients. The best chance anyone would stand would be to create the original, using very small amounts of the original elements, then produce a synthesis which matches it to produce a larger amount. In any event, it's not an easy task.


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William Thirteen
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in another life I managed an "Erotic Emporium" and quite often had anxious male customers interrogate me as to whether there was a surefire method to cause a woman to look to them for satisfaction of their carnal desires.  My response: "a nice dinner and a bottle of wine is a time tested strategy for success". Though i suspect most of them still needed the remedial lesson "don't be a f*cking jerk".


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michaelclarke18
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in another life I managed an "Erotic Emporium" and quite often had anxious male customers interrogate me as to whether there was a surefire method to cause a woman to look to them for satisfaction of their carnal desires.

Great question. I have heard such perfumes referred to as a ''pantie dropper''. Does such a thing exist?

The closest - apparently - used to be Kouros, by YSL.


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gurugeorge
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I once tried to make it with whatever the stuffs that were sold under that name by the well-known herbalist in South London were.  It stank horribly.  I think it's probably an AC joke.


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 Anonymous
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This post has re-awoken my interest in the real Ruthvah scent and I have tracked down and ordered the required genuine natural ingredients at just shy of 200 GBP.

As the Ambergris requires first making into a tincture that will take between 6 - 12 months, this won't be a quick operation. However, if any Lashtalian's would like a sample, PM me and I'll drop you a line when I have it available.


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belmurru
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"deugar" wrote:
This post has re-awoken my interest in the real Ruthvah scent and I have tracked down and ordered the required genuine natural ingredients at just shy of 200 GBP.

As the Ambergris requires first making into a tincture that will take between 6 - 12 months, this won't be a quick operation. However, if any Lashtalian's would like a sample, PM me and I'll drop you a line when I have it available.

That seems rather cheap for useful quantities of those three ingredients, especially raw Ambergris. Even assuming full legality.

How do you know they will be the actual animal ingredients? Is there any way you can vouch for the credibility of your source, short of telling us who it is?


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michaelclarke18
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That seems rather cheap for useful quantities of those three ingredients, especially raw Ambergris. Even assuming full legality.

It seems perfectly possible to buy a tincture, although I'm not sure how similar this was to the preparation used by AC...though the price seems quite reasonable - 30 ml for € 163,65 - for those who wish to try:

http://www.profumo.it/pid/163/lang/en


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 Anonymous
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Ah the wonders of Google!

Ambergris -From New Zealand from a specialist broker named Adrienne Beuse. Just over 100 GBP for 5oz piece. Really helpful advice

Civet - A tincture admittedly, but from a supplier in the US I have used for other obscure items and who assures me it is made from genuine raw product obtained around 7 years ago. I have no reason to doubt the assurance. Around 40 GBP for 5ml.

Musk - probably the simplest to locate. In my particular instance direct from a perfumer in Saudi Arabia who specialises in the creation of bespoke fragrances, particularly ouhd. He sent me images of the musk pod he used to produce this batch of tincture from suppliers in India. Cost around 60 GBP for 10ml.


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 Anonymous
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Sorry, meant to add - there's loads of great information on all of these ingredients on basenotes.net. Some threads of which have links to suppliers.


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michaelclarke18
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Sorry, meant to add - there's loads of great information on all of these ingredients on basenotes.net. Some threads of which have links to suppliers.

Ah, basenotes is the ultimate website for anyone interested in fragrances. Here is a great thread on Ambegris:

http://www.basenotes.net/threads/213402-Ambergris


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Anonymous
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Is it possible that this perfume as an aid to instigating , "success with women" is all about self-suggestion and confirmation- bias?  It's open to fallacious reasoning such as the Texas Sharp Shooter pit.  We've even started to talk about proper ways of applying it ("you're not doing it right) i.e. someone says you have to  rub it into the roots of the hair and others say no, apply it to the wrists etc.  The term, "success with women" is such a vague description anyway isn't it?. It's subjective.   

I'm not saying it's a scam at all.  A placebo maybe.  New female attention happens to a lot of males in different scenarios all the time.  Wearing a new, expensive leather jacket may do it or a newly shaven head or climbing out of a shiny, red sports car or being in the company of some super-jock type or a TV star etc etc.  Anything that isn't normal i.e. common, is going to, "open up new worlds" as it were. 

Think about it.  The sort of guy who wears this perfume doesn't usually wear strong perfume so once he smears it on his skin he is going to be more alert in his observations of the opposite sex when he leaves the apartment.  Furthermore if he is resorting to buying expensive "Crowleyan perfume"  to attract women then he feels good and strange like he's entering a whole new world.  Well, duh, that new found enthusiasm and outgoingness for our loser is, in his perceptions, going to make the ladies curious, right?  Curiosity isn't success.  Attractive women give out smiles to random men a lot.  So what?

Having said that, it is possible that a male, stinking of any strong perfume (as oppose to aftershave)  is going to turn female heads isn't it?  It's very unusual for a male whereas women are obsessed with perfume /scents.     


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Michael Staley
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"david" wrote:
Is it possible that this perfume as an aid to instigating , "success with women" is all about self-suggestion and confirmation- bias?  I'm not saying it's a scam at all.  A placebo maybe.  Female attention happens to a lot of males in different scenarios all the time.  Wearing a new, expensive leather jacket may do it or a newly shaven head or climbing out of a shiny, red sports car or being in the company of some super-jock type or a TV star etc etc.  Anything that isn't normal i.e. common is going to, "open up new worlds" as it were. 

Think about it.  The sort of guy who wears this perfume doesn't usually wear strong perfume so once he smears it on his skin he is going to be more alert in his observations of the opposite sex when he leaves the apartment.  Furthermore if he is resorting to buying expensive "Crowleyan perfume"  to attract women then he feels good and strange like he's entering a whole new world.  Well, duh, that new found enthusiasm and outgoingness for our loser is, in his perceptions, going to make the ladies curious, right?  Curiosity isn't success.  Attractive women give out smiles to random men a lot.  So what?

Having said that, it is possible that a male, stinking of any strong perfume (as oppose to aftershave)  is going to turn female heads isn't it?  It's very unusual for a male whereas women are obsessed with perfume /scents.     

You're certainly one for the sweping generaisations, aren't you. I know many women who aren't "obsessed with perfume / scents". In fact, I don't know any who are. My bad, I expect.


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Anonymous
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"Michael Staley" wrote:
You're certainly one for the sweping generaisations, aren't you. I know many women who aren't "obsessed with perfume / scents". In fact, I don't know any who are. My bad, I expect.

Well on the planet I live on the female perfume industry has massive, massive turnovers. 


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Anonymous
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William Thirteen
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perhaps you might hitch a ride on a passing Starship and leave Planet Fragrantica and its self selecting populace behind. 


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Michael Staley
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"david" wrote:
"Michael Staley" wrote:
You're certainly one for the sweping generaisations, aren't you. I know many women who aren't "obsessed with perfume / scents". In fact, I don't know any who are. My bad, I expect.

Well on the planet I live on the female perfume industry has massive, massive turnovers. 

The planet I live on has these large turnovers too; spooky, eh? However, it means only that there is there is a large market for it, not that obsession with perfumes or scents is widespread amongst women. Using perfume does not mean that the user is obsessed with it; only that he or she uses it.

To pursue an analogy, I daresay that when you add together the income from top-flight football clubs around the world, there is a large market for it. However, that wouldn't lead us to declare that men are obsessed with football. Many people (predominantly men, but also women) have a greater or lesser degree of interest, but comparatively few are "obsessed" with it.

But we digress.


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Anonymous
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"Michael Staley" wrote:
"david" wrote:
"Michael Staley" wrote:
You're certainly one for the sweping generaisations, aren't you. I know many women who aren't "obsessed with perfume / scents". In fact, I don't know any who are. My bad, I expect.

Well on the planet I live on the female perfume industry has massive, massive turnovers. 

The planet I live on has these large turnovers too; spooky, eh? However, it means only that there is there is a large market for it, not that obsession with perfumes or scents is widespread amongst women. Using perfume does not mean that the user is obsessed with it; only that he or she uses it.

To pursue an analogy, I daresay that when you add together the income from top-flight football clubs around the world, there is a large market for it. However, that wouldn't lead us to declare that men are obsessed with football. Many people (predominantly men, but also women) have a greater or lesser degree of interest, but comparatively few are "obsessed" with it.

But we digress.

It would've been nice if you would've or could've addressed my other points.  They were far more interesting than the trivial, little tidbit you zoomed in on and selected.  Now we have a thread in tangent. 

I have used rutvah so I have first -hand experience on it's alleged effects so I'd rather not get bogged down on whether I made a sweeping, generalized premise or not.  Ok I made a sweeping statement, "women are obsessed with perfume"  Most women in my life are obsessed with perfume.  Hopefully this matter is cleared up and we can now talk about rutvah and the OP.  Thankyou.  😉 


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Anonymous
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By the way I think when the male ego uses tricks to look upon the world externally and designs conquests and subjugations, this is not True Will.    It's coming from a previous phase of our evolution. 


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michaelclarke18
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By the way I think when the male ego uses tricks to look upon the world externally and designs conquests and subjugations, this is not True Will.    It's coming from a previous phase of our evolution.

Silly.


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Anonymous
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"david" wrote:
By the way I think when the male ego uses tricks to look upon the world externally and designs conquests and subjugations, this is not True Will.    It's coming from a previous phase of our evolution. 

..as outlined here by Dr Shoemaker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHd88rBx4gs


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Shiva
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It's coming from a previous phase of our evolution.

Read the Daylee Newz. Previous phase. Current Reality. Future Endeavor. Allee Samee! Never Changee! Conflicted World without End ::)


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Tao
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"david" wrote:
..as outlined here by Dr Shoemaker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHd88rBx4gs

Any chance you could sum up your point for us in a sentence or two?

I have used rutvah so I have first -hand experience on it's alleged effects

Do tell...  😉


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Anonymous
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"Tao" wrote:
Any chance you could sum up your point for us in a sentence or two?

Spiritual /magickal development involves a refinement of our animal nature including Adlerian power drives.

"Tao" wrote:

I have used rutvah so I have first -hand experience on it's alleged effects

Do tell...  😉

Well please refer to my previous post (before the thread was taken on a distractionary  diversion) about magick and/or rutvah and status cues, confirmation bias and the fallacy of The Texas Sharpshooter. 


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michaelclarke18
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..as outlined here by Dr Shoemaker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHd88rBx4gs

Ah. So you get all your information from others, rather than your own experience of the world. That explains much.


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Tao
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"david" wrote:
"Tao" wrote:

I have used rutvah so I have first -hand experience on it's alleged effects

Do tell...  😉

Well please refer to my previous post (before the thread was taken on a distractionary  diversion) about magick and/or rutvah and status cues, confirmation bias and the fallacy of The Texas Sharpshooter.

But darling, I'm not particularly interested in your intellectual theories regarding the logical shortcomings of others. I'm interested in the juicy details of your own first-hand experience with the Beast's panty-dropping elixir.
:-*


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Anonymous
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"michaelclarke18" wrote:

..as outlined here by Dr Shoemaker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHd88rBx4gs

Ah. So you get all your information from others, rather than your own experience of the world. That explains much.

Don't we all?  That's why you're here on this forum.  Once upon a time you knew nothing about Crowley and then you read some Crowley books.


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Anonymous
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"Tao" wrote:
But darling, I'm not particularly interested in your intellectual theories regarding the logical shortcomings of others. I'm interested in the juicy details of your own first-hand experience with the Beast's panty-dropping elixir.
:-*

Well those , "intellectual theories" you describe, succinctly document my views on rutvah and it's effects.  Yeah the use of rutvah seemed to generate unusual attraction for me (my then naïve self) but a , " panty-dropping elixir" it is not as such.  I did better without any kind of perfume.  Having said that I do vouch for spraying fly-deterrent on the body in large doses.  Works every time with the ladies  😉


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 Anonymous
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Totally random thoughts. I remember long ago, 1980ish,  purchasing a bottle of this ( or what may well have been a joke played upon ignorant young occultists) from, dare I mention, the Sorcerers Apprentice.
It smelled pretty bad,  and I never actually used it for the prescribed function.
But I have to say it gave me one of the greatest laughs and genuinely happy experiences of my occult life, when I found a soon to be good friend who had also bought a Bootle many years before we met.
Man did we laugh at our collective stupidity.
Life is for learning.


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michaelclarke18
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Don't we all?  That's why you're here on this forum.  Once upon a time you knew nothing about Crowley and then you read some Crowley books.

I am here due to some of the very interesting posts made by Lashtal members, who have thoroughly researched the life of AC  - and his influences and associates - and then post the results of some of their researches. This is an Aleister Crowley website, as opposed to a purely Thelema website - there's an important difference!

The point I wish to make, relates to the importance of the analysis of ones own experience of being in the world and related spiritual experiences. I don't think it appropriate to be quoting the words of others when it comes to such things - each one of us is different each with our own viewpoint...and what might make you laugh, might not necessarily make me laugh etc. Try not to allow your experience of the world to be framed with the thoughts of another, accepted without question...I've learnt that the hard way.


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 Anonymous
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I agree, the most interesting posts are those that at least sound as if they are personal experiences. The real world of the "occult" bears very little resemblance at all to what one usually finds in published books.


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 Anonymous
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,,


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Anonymous
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"Baal" wrote:
Totally random thoughts. I remember long ago, 1980ish,  purchasing a bottle of this ( or what may well have been a joke played upon ignorant young occultists) from, dare I mention, the Sorcerers Apprentice.
It smelled pretty bad,  and I never actually used it for the prescribed function.
But I have to say it gave me one of the greatest laughs and genuinely happy experiences of my occult life, when I found a soon to be good friend who had also bought a Bootle many years before we met.
Man did we laugh at our collective stupidity.
Life is for learning.

Didn't  they used to have a warning that came with it,"not to be used for selfish purposes" but how do you figure that?  You're only supposed to use it to find your wife (mother to your Christian children) with it or something?


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Anonymous
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqb54soKU8M  1m23s  LaVey admits to wearing musk in TV interview


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Falcon
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Advertising Standards Authority Ruling on Sorcerer's Apprentice Ltd Ruthvah advertising:

http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2014/4/Sorcerers-Apprentice-Ltd/SHP_ADJ_232785.aspx#.VCMlafldV8E

http://www.pliner.net/appmb2/134a9f/1222597/

Central Weekend Television interview with Chris Bray of the Sorcerer's Apprentice shop. After a Cook Report anti-Occult TV programme 'The Devil's Work', Mr Bray's shop was firebombed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIABdZE5rGA


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Anonymous
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I piut some rutvah on a few months ago and went to a gig with two friends.  Later on I went by myself to see some other friends in a pub.  As I sat at their table a lady came over and said to my friend"I fancy him (me) I want him.".

Let's just leave at that for now.


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michaelclarke18
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I piut some rutvah on a few months ago and went to a gig with two friends.  Later on I went by myself to see some other friends in a pub.  As I sat at their table a lady came over and said to my friend"I fancy him (me) I want him.".

Let's just leave at that for now.

I think there could definitely be a saleable product in there.


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William Thirteen
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While the gentlemen will be dousing themselves with too much Ruthvah, in the powder room across the hall the ladies know exactly how to attract the attention of those handsome Thelemic gentlemen....

http://qz.com/684424/the-sweet-sexy-smell-of-old-books-is-a-perfume-fad/


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Falcon
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Topic starter  

Update: It appears that due to the UK ASA ruling on the SA Shop advertising of Ruthvah, the Sorcerer's Apprentice no longer sell it.

However there is now another supplier overseas:

http://www.witchcraftsartisanalchemy.com/ruthvah-aleister-crowleys-elixir-of-love-roll-on-perfume-oil/


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ignant666
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Even before his logic course, david had his moments:

I do vouch for spraying fly-deterrent on the body in large doses. Works every time with the ladies[.]

"Witchcraft's Art Is Anal Chemy" dot com?! Yikes!

Vendor is docked points for advertising "Pheromones for (to be worn by) Men" and "Pheromones for (to be worn by) Women"- as if all men wanted to attract women, and all women wanted attract men! "Holy heteronormativity, Batman!" as the Boy Wonder might have said confronted with this benighted view held by folks who clearly Need To Get Out More.


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Falcon
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Topic starter  

@ignant666 "Witchcraft's Art is Anal Chemy" dot com?! Yikes!" HA! Yes it does sound a bit OTT to say the least doesn't it. I put it out there as an alternative supplier but if anyone knows of other vendors particularly any companies run by Thelemites perhaps they could let us know on this thread.


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Fanadil
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I used to make my own back in the 70s and 80s, but genuine ambergris and civet oils are now hard to come by in the US. Pity. It was quite pleasant and seemed to work subtly but effectively. I still have a couple of drams of it left which I sniff occasionally for old time's sake.


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Jamie J Barter
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Smell ya later,
Norma N Joy Conquest


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