Greetings
I know there are several threads about the Abbey of Thelema already but, given the circumstances, I felt I should start a new one now.
A discussion with the owner.
I visited Cefalu on September 18th, 19th & 20th , along with two friends of mine and I spent several hours in the Abbey of Thelema. I had seen several pictures of it on the internet, which gave me a vague idea about what I should expect to find there. Yet, the view of the real place was quite disheartening.
Perhaps the recent pictures ( http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/module-pnCPG.phtml) will help you realize the current condition of the house.
Before I leave Athens I had decided to meet Mrs. Sue Wallworth, a real estate agent who is supposed to intermediate for the Abbey’s sale, as we were told last May. ( http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-4313.phtml)
I called her repeatedly on Monday morning and left a voice message too, but she never answered. We didn’t have much time as we were going to leave for Palermo in the evening, so we visited the Tourist Information Office. The clerks asked us to give them a couple of hours to look for the lady, but when we went back later, they said they weren’t able to spot her. Her name wasn’t registered anywhere. I asked the clerks if they could help me find the owner of the house. One of them knew him personally so he gave him a call. The owner didn’t speak English so my Italian speaking friend informed him about the purpose of my visit and asked if it was possible for him to meet us within the next two hours, as we had to leave for Palermo soon.
We considered ourselves very lucky when he told us that he lives in Palermo. Although he had to travel a lot because of his job he was in the city and he would call us at the hotel later in the evening. Finally he came to meet us and we had a long discussion about the house. Here is a summary:
.............
I started explaining to him that I am interested in Aleister Crowley’s work and philosophy, that I can’t just sit and watch the Abbey falling apart and, although I don’t have the money to buy the house and I wouldn’t really care to own the property, I wish to rent it -for a small amount of money at first- in order to take care of it, and start a cause for its restoration as some sort of museum.
He said he doesn’t care to rent it. He has turned down several offers for rending already, although perhaps he could give it a second thought if he was to rent it for, let’s say, 1.500 € per month. He gave me a rather surprised and discouraging look when he heard about “the small monthly rental of 50 – 100 €”.
I told him that I imagine the room with the murals being open to visitors and the room behind it being turned into a projection room for documentary films about AC’s life, etc.
He said “But people visit the place and even sleep there as it is now. You don’t need to have it restored for that”.
“Yes, but the paintings and the whole place will be protected and maintained and someone will have an eye on the visitors to avoid vandalism, I answered. When the Abbey will be restored we’ll be able to accept offers from the visitors, and pay a normal monthly rental. And we could have it written in the contract that, if you’ll find a buyer, I will leave with no further claims. I wouldn’t mind leaving in this case, as the buyer would be probably someone who would like to maintain the Abbey.”
The owner answered that the property belongs to his mother and his aunt (he lived there with them as a child) and it’s about 1.400 square meters. It’s been registered as a museum already (I think he meant it is considered as a cultural heritage along with the old city of Cefalu) and the state offers 30% gratis for the restoration of such properties. The family used to keep it clean but later on they decided to let the plants grow and stopped cleaning the garbage because people used to go and sleep in and they even put a fire once. Now that it’s full of garbage no one will wish to sleep in.
He asked some specialists to estimate the value of the house and they said it’s 1.500.000 € at least. He mentioned more than once that he knows it’s falling apart, however Colosseum is ruined too but the state pays many millions of Euros every year for its maintenance. This house, he said, is unique for OTO & Thelema; there is no other place like it in the whole planet! He also said he has received 6 or 7 offers already from UK, USA, Canada, Chech Republic etc, but he didn’t have the time to open them yet, and he repeated that several times through the discussion. I asked if he had any offer from the OTO but –of course- he didn’t answer.
I told him that I am not connected to OTO or to A:.A:., but I have the impression that there are several different lines of Thelemites and it won’t be easy to have them working together to buy the property. Moreover, I said, I have read several discussions on the internet and I think that people find the amount of money too big to start thinking about buying the house.
I asked if he feels that, in case we’ll have the house restored, he would lose the opportunity to put a squeeze on the possible buyers, since the Thelemites wouldn’t worry that it could soon collapse. He used the Colosseum analogy again: murals or no murals, the place will be still unique in the world. And he insisted that he wouldn’t care to rent it.
I said once again that this is all I can do. As a matter of fact, I don’t even have the money for the restoration but I’ll start a cause and I’ll have to co-operate with others and establish a non profit organization in order to raise funds, restore and, perhaps, run the Abbey afterwards.
Finally he said: “Listen, since you seem to love this place so much, I’ll give you three months to gather people and and make an offer”.
I answered that my plan was to rent the house and restore it, not to buy it, and I don’t think we’ll ever be able to raise the amount he asks for, anyway.
He said “It’s ok, see what you can do and make an offer in three months”.
At this point it seemed that the discussion was to be concluded, but I thought of something else. I said “How would you feel about leasing? I wonder if we could buy the property using the leasing method.”
He definitely liked the idea and repeated that he will wait for three months. He also informed me that the State offers 30% of the taxes gratis for the ones who buy properties to restore them.
So I told him that I’ll talk to a lawyer when I’ll get back to Athens and see what I can do.
After a short general discussion, we exchanged our e-mail addresses to keep in touch and he left.
……………..
Regards
Hecate
Very interesting and very worthy cause. It is so sad that this is happening now when everyone has the least money they have had in their lives (generally). Yet I will do what I can to help.
I wish we could have saved more of it earlier but apparently no one cared enough to organise anything.
Keep me posted on this topic, Hecate.
I'm definitely interested in giving a hand.
Far out!
A true Thelemic adventure involving the forces that manipulate reality on the physical plane. To what end? To be continued ...
Not sure if I understand you Hecate, but does this mean that if you get together a group to have the house restored, he gets to sell it later when he wants to?
I'm wondering if this is the tallish thin man, slightly balding with grey hair who I have seen looking around there a few times?
Encouraging and concerning at the same time. I would be hesitant to put large amounts of time/money into renting/leasing/saving the Abbey if the owner has the right to sell it at any point in time. If he is willing to rent/lease the property get him to sign a yearly contract at the very least. It'd be a shame to actually raise enough money to rent the Abbey, restore it and then have it sold to who knows who.
Encouraging and concerning at the same time. I would be hesitant to put large amounts of time/money into renting/leasing/saving the Abbey if the owner has the right to sell it at any point in time. If he is willing to rent/lease the property get him to sign a yearly contract at the very least. It'd be a shame to actually raise enough money to rent the Abbey, restore it and then have it sold to who knows who.
I agree with all this. The problem is that the building needs an absolutely huge amount of work. New roof, some of the building walls - particularly around the east side of the villa - need to be taken down and rebuilt, most of the ceilings will need doing, replacement of rotten doors, most of the walls, and then there is the question of some modernisation i.e. electricity, water etc.
It would be awful to invest all that time, effort and money for some guy in Palamero, whose mother/aunt - or whatever - owns it, to just capitalise on the hard work of others.
I should imagine, the first thing to do would be to find the person(s) who actually do own it, by law, and then go from there. I suspect, there are a lot of legal issues that can't be resolved which explains why it hasn't been sold before.
An open invitation
To whom to may concern
Dear sir/madam
If you are reading these lines now, you probably know enough about Aleister Crowley and Thelema to understand the important role of the Abbey of Thelema in Thelemic history. This invitation aims to call everyone who respects Aleister Crowley’s legacy into action.
The recent pictures of the Abbey make it clear that it won’t last any longer unless it is properly restored; in other words, we’d have to work faster than time if we wish the Abbey to stay with us in the years to come. The dynamics of the place indicate that it can be much more than a piece of history: if we make some organized efforts, it can become a living part of modern Thelema.
My initial thought was to rent the property and raise funds to restore it. The idea was merely to help the Abbey prolong its lifetime, no matter of the state of the ownership, until someone would find the money to buy it.
However, after the discussion I had with its owner, Mr. Mario Russo, it became obvious that it would worth to join our efforts and raise funds to buy this property. Having some experience of running a non profit organization, (of a much smaller scale, I have to admit), I’d like to share some thoughts with you, hoping that the ones who are really interested to participate in this plan will add their knowledge and experience to them. In this way we’ll be able to form a sort of a plan and take action.
………….
About the creation of a non profit organization / foundation
The Mission Statement
The basic purpose of the foundation will be to organize events and take any needed legal action in order to raise funds for:
1. The purchase (or leasing)
2. The restoration, and
3. The management of the Abbey of Thelema.
The board of the partners will be deciding about the needed actions in order to achieve those aims.
Legal Advice
Frater Lucius offered his help to find us an Italian lawyer who would help us navigate through the local law system.
In every case, I believe that each one of the participants should take legal advice regarding the laws about the participation in non profit organizations in their own country.
The Seat
Given that the objective of the foundation lies in Cefalu, I believe that the seat of the foundation should be there as well. We could also have some branch offices in UK, USA & Australia, and specifically in places where there is a big number of Thelemites.
On the other hand, one would probably have to declare a certain address for those seats (at least according to the Greek laws that I am aware of) so in our case it would be easier to have the initial seat in one of the above countries and open a branch seat in Cefalu (or move the main seat there) when we’ll have a contract.
In this case I’d like to vote as a seat in UK for historical reasons, but it would be more practical to have the seat hosted in the country with the most propitious laws.
Partners:
A narrow base of 3 – 5 partners would be certainly more flexible and would make the communication easier. However, given the circumstances, I believe that there should be a representative of every Thelemic Order in this foundation. I should probably try to conduct the venerable Heads of those Orders personally, but I don’t even know who they are. I expect that the members of Lashtal will help me to find them.
I’d also like to take Mr. Paul Feazey’s participation for granted, since I consider Lashtal.com and its impartial environment as the home of this initiation.
Any other suggestions for possible partners would be appreciated.
There will be a small charge for the partners, for the first expenses of the foundation, although the initial capital doesn’t really have to be big. There will be no profit for the partners and the income of the foundation will be spent for the achievement of its mission statement, including the cost of its function.
I see this foundation as an opportunity for the Thelemites to find “Strength in Unity” and work together for their common legacy.
Members:
Everyone interested in the legacy of Aleister Crowley can become a member. The members will help to inform more people about this cause and they are expected to offer their help on a volunteer base, according to each one’s capacity.
Probably there will be a small charge for the members, for the basic expenses of the foundation.
………….
The above is a draft of the basic concerns of a memorandum of association and it is supposed to work as an example of what this non profit foundation will look like. There are plenty other details to take under consideration in due time.
If we move fast, it will take us one to two months to have the foundation established, so I make a plea to everyone who wishes to participate in this to declare it here as soon as possible.
The next step will be to arrange an online meeting for the ones who wish to participate as partners.
Best Regards
Anna Apostolidou
If you can get everything all legal like and organized I will gladly give what I can in order for the Abbey to be restored and stay in the hands of people who have a vested interest in it as a holy landmark as well as a museum of AC's time spent there.
93,
It seems the leasing idea is good. That way, when it does get fixed up, the leaser should have the most rights to the property (ie. he can't just sell it off to anyone).
Anyway, I don't mind contributing what I can.
The house and property are in complete shambles, it's true. However, if you look at it from a community project standpoint, its not so bad, especially with modern tools. The outter brush and land basically needs to be completely cleared out. The only thing I would consider leaving are any trees or things with markings on them from A.C. On the inside, I personally would approach it as a new house. Once you clear out all the crap and debris, you see what is left and actually worth saving. The murals on the walls and such are made of plaster it looks like? Regardless, it should be possible to either copy the murals onto a canvas or some other surface, such that the saved pictures, or likenesses of them, could be restored to what they were possibly like originally, and then hung as murals onto a new wall. So much for saving the artwork. The rest of the stuff, you would probably want modernized if you actually planned on letting people stay there, or staying there yourself (either way, a proper gate/security system is recommended). If not then you would want to get as close as you could to how it originally was, which would undoubtedly cost more. At any rate, there are a lot of things to consider, and one would do best probably to start with the yard itself in order to get room to work, while cleanings the debris away from the inside. The foundation and general structural integrity would have to be examined, and you would really want to do your best to make sure everything is up to modern standards. If decided to turn it into an actually Abbey or house, then one would want it all modernized, as said before. If chosen to use strictly as a museum of sorts, then one would want all of the stuff that one doesn't see to be modernized, while what stuff one does see would fit Crowley's era.
At any rate, its a nice project for one person, but a fair one for many people. With enough decent help, the project wouldn't take too long. The planning and gathering of funds would probably take longer. Plus, I'm not sure how large the land is, but once the land was cleared out one could put a little gate house or something up to have a caretaker/security person to live in while the work is being done. Then, all Thelemites who come to visit: bring a hammer.
93 93/93
Cara Hecate,
93. Let's get that up front.
Your enthusiasm and devotion to the cause of the erstwhile Abbey of Thelema in Cefalu is without any doubt to be commended. Your account of the dealings with this piece of real estate makes for compelling reading.
BUT, does it really matter ?? Seriously. The place is a crumbling, decayed ruin, lurking in the shade of a modern football stadium if I'm not much misguided by the excellent account of the place that appeared in the 'Fortean Times' AC issue a couple of years ago.
Time was 1923 e.v. and we've passed on a bit since then, temporally if not intellectually. Monuments to ancient potential beginnings that certainly were richly productive, if not entirely realised. Cephalodium itself, the Great Rock with its ancient temple is a much better testimony to the memory of the Beast than some sad and sorry ruinous, Sicilian hovel, do you not think ? Well, for what its worth, I do and heresy well spoken, of which therefore, I speak.
The 'abbey' of Cefalu is surely a second best to the 'holy place' of Boleskine, and look how the Thelemic Community messed up on that one !
Put not your trust in charismatic rock musicians...despite everlasting thanks for that lovely reprint of 'The Goetia', Jimmy !
With all deeply felt sincerity,
Satan's Advocaat - 93, 93/93.
93,
Suum Cuique, as the ancient inhabitants of Cefalù would have said. The interest and importance one attributes to something, be it a place, a poem, a memory or even a person, is highly subjective. What to people is just a decrepit shack near a stadium might have great meaning to someone else. In all honesty spending time in the Abbey, very little time, has given me more, in terms of feelings, sentiments and "magickal" feeling (if I'm allowed to use such a term) than what i felt the many times I visited Saint Peter's in Rome, which is a tad better taken care of and looked after. It's all in the eye of the beholder: What is simple rubble for one, may be a chance to restore what time and endless legions of vandals have done in one hundred or so years to a place which is cherished and still visited by many.
Just my opinion, I hope respectful,
Fr. Lucius
93 93/93
Thanks for your response, Lucius,
All points accepted, but I do not deter from my opinion.
Have not revisited Google to check it out, but why does no one ever mention the gloroius and ancient temple that rests upon the Rock of Cefalu - a lasting and truly enduring monument to the Mediterranean Goddess in one of Her timeless manifestations, originally founded by a Sicilian culture whose name itself is open to conjecture. For me, this helps to put Aeons into their proper perspective.
S.A.
Greetings!
93. Let's get that up front.
Your enthusiasm and devotion to the cause of the erstwhile Abbey of Thelema in Cefalu is without any doubt to be commended. Your account of the dealings with this piece of real estate makes for compelling reading.
BUT, does it really matter ?? Seriously. The place is a crumbling, decayed ruin, lurking in the shade of a modern football stadium if I'm not much misguided by the excellent account of the place that appeared in the 'Fortean Times' AC issue a couple of years ago.
Time was 1923 e.v. and we've passed on a bit since then, temporally if not intellectually. Monuments to ancient potential beginnings that certainly were richly productive, if not entirely realised. Cephalodium itself, the Great Rock with its ancient temple is a much better testimony to the memory of the Beast than some sad and sorry ruinous, Sicilian hovel, do you not think ? Well, for what its worth, I do and heresy well spoken, of which therefore, I speak.
The 'abbey' of Cefalu is surely a second best to the 'holy place' of Boleskine, and look how the Thelemic Community messed up on that one !
Put not your trust in charismatic rock musicians...despite everlasting thanks for that lovely reprint of 'The Goetia', Jimmy !
With all deeply felt sincerity,
Satan's Advocaat - 93, 93/93.
Satan’s Advocaat, I believe that your words express many others’ thoughts as well - I had even started wondering how come no one asked this question yet. And I do understand where you’re coming from, as a part of me sees things from the same point of view.
However, I also see that life itself is a game and everything in it is a matter of choice. I can choose to stay aside and ignore the material and earthy aspect of things as well as jump into this game and enjoy the ride.
I don’t really expect much from anyone particularly either it is the OTO and the other Thelemic Orders, or any famous Rock star, or even the Thelemites. They don’t have to do anything more than being themselves. I do sense though, that there is a momentum which we can use to do something with the Abbey now. All I say is “Hey, I’m here to co-create this manifestation with anyone who has an interest in this”.
Now, as far as I am concerned, I feel that I would merely fool myself if I claimed that I practice magick, without realizing at the same time the importance of grounding the energies with which I work, in the current social system. I’m new in magick, but I’ve been doing energy work long enough to see that it’s good to pay attention to the earthy aspect of things as well and try to apply the theories in my everyday life and even honor the ones who came and worked before me.
I’ve been channeling and talking to people here about Spirit and many wonderful ideas and meanings have been coming to us, making our lives even better. One day, somehow, I learned about AC’s work and I realized how much he has done and said. I also realized how deeply have his ideas permeated our collective mind, and that what I’ve been channeling is so deeply connected with his own work on the inner fields. Then, it was only a matter of time to feel the need to honor his work.
It’s funny but the other day I was thinking to myself that Thelemites seem to be just like us Greeks: you can’t get them to work together for a common purpose easily. (Well, I’ve been told that Greeks usually unite under pressure, but I haven’t lived long enough to see that, yet). I’m not a Thelemite, but it would be interesting to meet a person who combines both of these attributes. LOL
At any rate, I don’t see this initiative as an opportunity to judge people for what they do or what they don’t do; why should we waste time and energy on criticizing each other, when we can use them to get creative and achieve a common goal?
This is not an opportunity to get grouchy; this is an opportunity to celebrate life and play with each other and enjoy our potential for creation, since, if we really wish to do something, Spirit will support it anyway!
Kind regards
Hecate
PS: I believe that AC has done a beautiful work of synthesis regarding several Godforms, including the ancient Greek gods (one of whom is Artemis, the temple of which lies on La Rocca).
Greetings
I’ve just e-mailed an invitation to all the Thelemic Orders I could find on the internet: the OTO (Headquarters, Grand Lodges & National Lodges (Oasis & Camps will follow tomorrow), the Typhonian Order and the Ur-OTO. I used the addresses of the Master or/and the Secretary, when they were available.
I didn't find any e-mail address to contact A:. A:. or the Parzival XI O.T.O. Foundation. I’m also afraid that I’ve probably missed some Orders, so I would appreciate any suggestions.
Regards
Hecate
Hi Satan'sAdvocaat,
I am a disgustingly rationalist, cynical and sceptical magickian. I think the concept of preserving the Abbey as a site of pilgrimage, or as a temple and holy site wouldn't be the point for me...or others I'm sure.
Preserving the residences of interesting individuals, and converting them into museums and respositories for their legacies, is a great tradition. It doesn't require any religiosity or spirituality (although it can). Famous (and even modestly famous) authors, musicians and visual artists have all had small museums dedicated to them. This could be no different. This may not go anywhere, but I would lend my support...not to preserve a holy place for a 'prophet', but a museum for a brilliant and misunderstood artist.
Cheers,
Thamiel
Greetings
I've just received a call from the Greek Lodge of the Ur-OTO. They said that they will support our cause whole heartedly.
And the Greek section of the A:.A:. informed me that they support the cause as well.
Regards
Hecate
93,
I've just received a call from the Greek Lodge of the Ur-OTO. They said that they will support our cause whole heartedly.
And the Greek section of the A:.A:. informed me that they support the cause as well.
Regards
Hecate
Awesome! To be honest, this is a solid "Thelema community project".
93 93/93
I've just received a call from the Greek Lodge of the Ur-OTO. They said that they will support our cause whole heartedly.
And the Greek section of the A:.A:. informed me that they support the cause as well.
Regards
Hecate
93,
That is great news, Hecate.
Time to get the ball rolling!
93 93/93
Greetings!
I thought it would be a nice idea to share with you the invitation I sent to the OTO and the other Thelemic Orders.
__________________________
This e-mail address was found via the Links page of OTO Headquarters website.
The following message regarding the Abbey of Thelema is meant to be read from the Head of the Order and I would appreciate your kindness to forward it to him/her.
In case this message came to you by accident, please ignore it.
………………
Dear sir/madam,
My name is Anna Apostolidou and I am a public employee, working in some section of the Greek Ministry of Health. English is not my mother tongue, so please forgive any strange expressions or misspellings in my message.
I feel a deep respect for Aleister Crowley’s work and some time ago I decided to visit Cefalu and the Abbey of Thelema (or what is left from it).
I am sure that you are already aware of the current situation of the Abbey of Thelema, however I have to say that it was a quite woeful sight, which made me think that it’s time to take action. I’m also sure that I don’t need to waste more of your valuable time explaining the importance of this place in the history of Thelema. I will, however, ask you to think about the following :
It is obvious that this building won’t last any longer unless it will be properly restored; in other words, we’d have to work faster than time if we wish the Abbey to stay with us in the years to come. Moreover, the dynamics of the place indicate that it can be much more than a piece of history: if we make some organized efforts, it can become a living part of modern Thelema.
My first thought was to rent the property myself with a minimum monthly rent and then find a way to raise funds to restore it. I felt that I should help the Abbey to prolong its lifetime, no matter of the state of the ownership, until someone would find the money to buy it.
On September 20th I met Mr. Mario Russo, the owner of the property, and we had a long discussion about the Abbey. You can find the details of this discussion on www.Lashtal.com ( http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-4627.phtml ) .
Soon it became obvious to me that:
A) He hasn’t received any offers yet for the Abbey or the ones he has do not satisfy him (although he claimed that he has received 6 or 7 offers which he didn’t have the time to open yet).
B) He really wants to sell the property and he could accept a price lower than the 1.500.000 € he has asked for in the first place.
C) He would be interested to lease the property.
In the end of the discussion I realized that it would worth the efforts to find more people who care about Aleister Crowley’s legacy, and join our efforts and raise funds to buy/lease this property. Having some experience of running a not-for-profit organization, (of a much smaller scale, I have to admit), I think that it would be ideal to establish one for the Abbey. Therefore I’d like to share some thoughts with you, hoping that you will find it in your heart to support this plan and accept to participate in this common effort to save the Abbey of Thelema.
………….
A possible form of the not-for-profit organization for the Abbey of Thelema
The Mission Statement
The basic purpose of the foundation will be to organize events and take any needed legal action in order to raise funds for:
1. The purchase (most probably by leasing)
2. The restoration, and
3. The management of the Abbey of Thelema.
The board of the partners will be deciding about the needed actions in order to achieve those aims.
Legal Advice
Another member of Lashtal.com offered his help to find us an Italian lawyer who would help us navigate through the local law system.
In every case, I believe that each one of the participants should take legal advice regarding the laws about the participation in non profit organizations in their own country.
The Seat
Given that the objective of the foundation lies in Cefalu, I believe that the seat of the foundation should be there as well. We could also have some branch offices in Europe (especially UK), USA & Australia, and specifically in places where there is a big number of Thelemites.
On the other hand, one would probably have to declare a certain address for those seats (at least according to the Greek laws that I am aware of) so in our case it would be easier to have the initial seat in UK and open a branch seat in Cefalu (or move the main seat there) when we’ll have a contract.
Partners:
A narrow base of 3 – 5 partners would be certainly more flexible and would make the communication easier. However, given the circumstances, I believe that there should be a representative of every Thelemic Order in this organization, so perhaps we end up with more than 5 partners.
I also take Mr. Paul Feazey’s participation for granted, since I consider Lashtal.com and its impartial environment as the home of this initiation.
Any other suggestions for possible partners would be appreciated.
There will be a small charge for the partners, for the first expenses of the foundation.
In the case of the Avalokitesvara Reiki non-profit organization, where we wanted to move fast and keep the cost low, I dedicated a room of my apartment as a seat (this is possible according to the relevant Greek laws). If we could have it this way, the initial capital won’t have to be big.
I think I need to clarify something here. Although I expect everyone to make an offer according to their capacity, at this point I’m not asking the partners to offer money for the Abbey. What I have in mind first is to create a board of partners which will represent as many Thelemic groups as possible. The partners will also:
a. Elect a management board which will run the organization for a given period.
b. Find ways to spread the idea and to co-operate to organize events in order to raise funds.
c. Participate in the decision making.
Of course there will be no profit for the partners and the income of the foundation will be spent for the achievement of its mission statement, including the cost of its function.
Members:
Everyone interested in the legacy of Aleister Crowley can become a member. The members will help to inform more people about this cause and they will be expected to offer their help on a volunteer base, according to each one’s capacity.
Probably there will be a small charge for the members too, to cover for the running expenses of the foundation.
………….
As I said, the above is only a draft of the basic concerns of a memorandum of association. There are plenty other details to take under consideration in due time.
I believe that, through this organization, we’ll be able to organize events and bazaars and, perhaps, find some artists to co-operate with us giving concerts, etc in order to raise funds.
Dear sir/madam, I can’t stress enough that this foundation will be an opportunity for the Thelemites to let aside any differences and find “Strength in Unity”. Therefore, I make a plea to you to think about this idea and accept the invitation to work together in order to save an important part of Aleister Crowley’s legacy.
I think that, if we move fast, it will take us one to two months to have the foundation established, so please let me know about your intentions by next Monday, 4th of October.
The next step will be to arrange an online meeting for the ones who wish to participate as partners.
Thank you for your time.
Sincerely yours
Anna Apostolidou
Since you've named me in the email and repeated the contents of that email in this public forum, it's appropriate that I repeat extracts from the Private Message I sent to you on 26 September:
I have little interest in the building beyond its connection with Crowley's biography. The Cefalu years were, for me, Crowley's least attractive period: things went seriously awry...
I'm far more interested in Boleskine, the future of which seems to be assured. Preservation of the Abbey will inevitably result in higher profile of the most unacceptable aspects of Crowley's self-indulgence and, as someone committed to giving the man's creative work the profile it deserves, I see only controversy and negativity resulting.
Having said that, I do understand why some people find the building interesting and I suppose I sympathise with those that want to preserve it before it collapses completely. To that extent, I applaud your efforts which at least show some prospect of achieving the desired the result.
I hope this puts your presumption of my "participation" into perspective.
Owner and Editor
LAShTAL
93,
If you get this a bit more "together", say by making a facebook page, or cause, a website, and getting set up to take in donations, I will help you get the word out about it. But I do think it is wise to decide what you will do with the money if you don't collect enough... For instance, if you collect $2000.00 in donations and the cause dies, what will you do with the money in the community? That is something people will be concerned with if they are to donate.
With that said, I am fairly certain that if you get these things functional you will be able to get some support, though perhaps not enough. Who knows, though? Contact me if you get this going and I'll make sure people hear about it as best I can.
93 93/93,
Oz
yes a paypal donation button is a necessity.
I think if all lashtal members were to simply donate one to five pounds which wouldn't break the bank this would be a simple cause.
power in numbers and that.
and we can feel glad we contributed to something we believe in like Thelema.
93,
I think if all lashtal members were to simply donate one to five pounds which wouldn't break the bank this would be a simple cause.
power in numbers and that.
and we can feel glad we contributed to something we believe in like Thelema.
Truth be told, and not to burst anyone's bubble, but since Paul has decided not to participate in this (a choice he is free to make as he Will), and this Site is well-known for being non-partisan, it seems a very good idea to make a Facebook page, or Website or some stand-alone Internet-something for this endeavor, especially concerning donations and what-not.
(As an aside there are some that may donate to this cause that have not donated to lashtal.com. While this is perfectly okay, it is completely unfair to allow the campaign, if you will, to continue on lashtal.com at Mr. Feazey's expense, unless he himself decides to allow the same. In short, it's rude.)
Not trying to start an argument or anything. Just sayin'...
93 93/93
Hey everyone, long time lurker, minimal poster (why not start posting now?). Regardless of who supports this and who does not, I would just like to declare my personal support of this cause, and I would furthermore like to also suggest a facebook page or something else which is separate from lashtal.com itself. Willing donater to this noble cause should things keep moving along. All eyes on you Anna!
93
Lashtal I found your comment interesting . However my thought is that Crowley had two sides to his life so to speak, and The Abbey and Boleskin are a part of that, so preserving both should be important. Who is anyone to decide which was more important, Crowley was the sum of everything he did and thought.
However I understand what you mean about having the wrong followers so to speak, but I have found many people get into magick to start with through the darker side so to speak and over time they find themselves.
Im interested, I could probably buy a share in February 2011 Maybe even November. But the whole amount is too much. However if I did look at buying it. How much would Thelemites pay to spend a weekend there and how many rooms does it have. If i did this I would want to have days where people can come visit for free that's the right thing to do.
Please keep me up to date.
93 93/93
Greetings
As I said in my personal apologies pm Paul, in my mind there wasn’t much difference between saying “I’d like to take (something) for granted” and “I take (something) for granted”, as in both cases I am fully aware that I don’t have any positive answer but I hope it will be so.
If I had your agreement, I would have stated it much differently (and certainly in a more cheerful way). 😉
I don’t really know what else I can say or do about it, so I’ll simply apologize once again about the confusion and any problems I might have caused.
If you get this a bit more "together", say by making a facebook page, or cause, a website, and getting set up to take in donations, I will help you get the word out about it. But I do think it is wise to decide what you will do with the money if you don't collect enough... For instance, if you collect $2000.00 in donations and the cause dies, what will you do with the money in the community? That is something people will be concerned with if they are to donate.
With that said, I am fairly certain that if you get these things functional you will be able to get some support, though perhaps not enough. Who knows, though? Contact me if you get this going and I'll make sure people hear about it as best I can.
93 93/93,
Oz
FraterLucius, who was the first one to offer his help, and I, have been talking for a while. We will definitely make a facebook page as soon as we have the not-for-profit organization established. Meanwhile, there are other things to be done first, the most important of which is to find the people who will form the board of partners and, therefore, the not-for profit organization. According to the laws that I am aware of, even 2 persons would be enough to do this. However, I believe it would be good to have representatives from as many Thelemic Orders as possible. The invitation is sent and I’m waiting for an answer until October 4th.
The partners will decide together about the contents of the memorandum of association. When we’ll have established the not-for-profit organization, the partners will be deciding for all the important things, based on this memorandum. Usually, the memorandum includes a special paragraph about the future of the organization’s possessions when the organization is to cease its workings. So the question you asked Ozzzz666, will be answered there. I believe that we could use the money for another ‘Thelemic’ reason, but if you wait a few weeks you will get a more specific answer.
At any rate, I think I should make it clear that the reason I’m looking for partners is to have more people with a certain experience in Thelema taking part in the decision making. Given the extent of the enterprise I’d never thought to address all those issues alone. If we wish to have the best possible results, it is necessary to have a basic circle of well grounded people with a certain experience in Thelema and, perhaps, some knowledge on the subjects.
I think if all lashtal members were to simply donate one to five pounds which wouldn't break the bank this would be a simple cause.
power in numbers and that.
and we can feel glad we contributed to something we believe in like Thelema.
Apparently we will be accepting donations through the Facebook page, if possible.
Yet, I believe that the greatest income will come from various events that we’ll need to organize globally.
(As an aside there are some that may donate to this cause that have not donated to lashtal.com. While this is perfectly okay, it is completely unfair to allow the campaign, if you will, to continue on lashtal.com at Mr. Feazey's expense, unless he himself decides to allow the same. In short, it's rude.)
Not trying to start an argument or anything. Just sayin'...
93 93/93
I understand that most of us are quite busy and it’s not easy to catch up with all the posts etc. I even regret that, having to act fast –and rather hastily at times-, I seem to miss some points.
Paul didn’t say in the above post that he won’t support this cause and I can hardly see myself or this initiative as a partisan one. However, I don’t really wish to make things more complicated about the extent of his participation, so I will wait for him to clarify things, whenever he will find it in his heart (and have the time) to do so.
There will be a Facebook page, but I do consider Lashtal.com as home and I see this case as an opportunity to support it too, in some way. So I’d never think to move the discussion and the core information from here (that is to say, as long as I feel that Paul is open to that).
In every case, my intention is to have things done for the highest good of all and I have the certainty that it will be so.
Regards
Hecate
Not to be a naysayer, but this idea seems old aeon to me. Crowley is someone connected with Thelema at the heart, but isn't the point of this aeon to move past our prophets, our parents, our religious leaders and be our own persons? Building monuments to people of the past seems like a huge step backwards in this regards. How are we to move forward if all we are doing is looking in the past?
Wouldn't it be much more prudent and productive to buy/rent profess houses for study and fellowship? Or print Books of the Law and stash them in hotel rooms across the globe?
Greetings smokewolf
Wouldn't it be much more prudent and productive to buy/rent profess houses for study and fellowship? Or print Books of the Law and stash them in hotel rooms across the globe?
Well, perhaps I don’t see the reason to do that myself, because I’m not a Thelemite. 😉
However, I do respect Aleister Crowley’s work (and Thelema) and I found it in my heart to do this work in order to honor his legacy.
Your ideas to buy/rent houses for study and fellowship and print Books of the Law sound interesting and I would support it if you or someone else decided to take the commitment to organize things and start a cause to raise funds for this reason.
Generally, I don’t see why people feel the need to restrict themselves in following only one and single way. Life is interesting because we have many options to play with. It’s like having a hundred ice cream flavours in front of us, and, being afraid that we’ll be allowed to taste only one of them, we start feeding our mind with reasons to reject all the rest 99 of them. But we could taste them all, if we’d really find the courage to pretend to our right and take the trouble to realize it.
Regards
Hecate
may I posit a small note that individuals such as myself who choose not to use facebook or myspace and who may and probably outnumber facebook users, need a place to donate that they do not need to login to. so a simple website would be a good idea to reach more people instead of facebook.
thank you 🙂
As a "non-facebooker", I second Chris's request for a website to donate to donate funds.
Not to be a naysayer, but this idea seems old aeon to me. Crowley is someone connected with Thelema at the heart, but isn't the point of this aeon to move past our prophets, our parents, our religious leaders and be our own persons? Building monuments to people of the past seems like a huge step backwards in this regards. How are we to move forward if all we are doing is looking in the past?
Wouldn't it be much more prudent and productive to buy/rent profess houses for study and fellowship? Or print Books of the Law and stash them in hotel rooms across the globe?
This makes far more sense to be. You could probably rent a place in Cefalu near to the site for a fraction of the cost - might even be a better place for rituals and the like.
Moreover, Crowley himself would never have formed such an attachment, such as a house - it's merely a tool.
There is nothing Old Aeon about Liber Legis, 3:34: "an invisible house there standeth, and shall stand until the fall of the Great Equinox". These places - i.e. Boleskine and the Abbey of Thelema - are nexuses of power in the Thelemic Age.
You missed the preceeding paragraph:-
''But your holy place shall be untouched throughout the centuries: though with fire and sword it be burnt down & shattered, yet an invisible house there standeth''
The book of the law seems to be saying that it shall be 'burnt down & shattered'; perhaps the abbey not existing, is a rather more potent concept that an actual building, as each house will exist for each follower.
Exactly...
Owner and Editor
LAShTAL
93,
I can't help it...
Actually, it says...
Liber AL 3:34
"But your holy place shall be untouched throughout the centuries: though with fire and sword it be burnt down & shattered, yet an invisible house there standeth, and shall stand until the fall of the Great Equinox; when Hrumachis shall arise and the double-wanded one assume my throne and place. Another prophet shall arise, and bring fresh fever from the skies; another woman shall awake the lust & worship of the Snake; another soul of God and beast shall mingle in the globèd priest; another sacrifice shall stain the tomb; another king shall reign; and blessing no longer be poured To the Hawk-headed mystical Lord!"
I suppose I shouldn't comment on the verse, but to comment on these comments of the partial representations of the verse...
If my 'holy place' is 'untouched', does that mean I die a virgin?
93 93/93
Actually, it says...
Liber AL 3:34
"But your holy place shall be untouched throughout the centuries: though with fire and sword it be burnt down & shattered, yet an invisible house there standeth, and shall stand until the fall of the Great Equinox; when Hrumachis shall arise and the double-wanded one assume my throne and place. Another prophet shall arise, and bring fresh fever from the skies; another woman shall awake the lust & worship of the Snake; another soul of God and beast shall mingle in the globèd priest; another sacrifice shall stain the tomb; another king shall reign; and blessing no longer be poured To the Hawk-headed mystical Lord!"
I suppose I shouldn't comment on the verse, but to comment on these comments of the partial representations of the verse...
If my 'holy place' is 'untouched', does that mean I die a virgin?
It doesn't really change anything. The text may not dealing with a house that existed in any real sense - but a metaphorical one. It could relate to an astral house or even a conceptual one, which one uses for the purposes of worship; and one which may have been destroyed - in terms of it's concept i.e. the dying out of Thelema in the 1950s - to be revived at some later date. The point, I think being that the invisible house of one's will, continues to remain standing.
Very well put and agree wholeheartedly!
93,
Lovely "commentary". It made me lol. No one answered my question!
93 93/93
Greetings
Many thanks to Arpokratis, who offered to advertise this initiative in the next issue of the “Mystery” magazine, here in Greece.
I heard that there will be an interview with Michael Staley about the Typhonian order in the same issue, too.
Isn't it great?
Regards
Hecate
No one answered my question!
Is that not an answer?
93,
No one answered my question!
Is that not an answer?
Of course not. Neither is this other remark of yours. Do you ever say anything interesting?
93 93/93
Of course not.
The answer was in the decision to ignore.
In my experience, he does. Or were you just trying to provoke an argument? Again?
Owner and Editor
LAShTAL
Hecate,
Thanks for the info about the interveiw with Michael Staley in the upcoming issue of "Mystery". I want to try and track down a copy in The States now!
In the Night of Pan,
N.O.X
93,
The original comment was a full quotation of The Book of the Law, to append to the two partial quotations.
The "stupid little holy place remark" was in many ways similar to other remarks on the verse in question made elsewhere on this thread. It was a joke of course, but is still valid in a way. Apparently I shall have to point that out sometime. Thus, in my opinion "ignoring it" is neither interesting nor insightful, as it only shows what occurs with the majority of other similar posts that are likewise ignored, further indicating the fallacy of the original arguments presented on the verses in question.
I'm not sure where the again comes from, Paul. Generally I don't try and start arguments. I suppose it's hard to show emotion in forum speak unless I make frequent use of smilies and such, but the entire thing was really meant in jest. That some people are continuously so serious about everything they fail to see it is beyond me.
So if I offended any Egos, I apologize, I guess.
93 93/93
Tourist traps like Celafu usually have onerous real=estate laws regarding foreign ownership of property. Usually the property has to revert to a resident of the country after a period of time.
Don't mention it Hecate! Mystery, and I personally, are occult friendly although we are a mainstream magazine!
Yes, in the October issue we published a wonderful interview between me and Michael Staley, while in the next issue (November) we will publish an interview from Lon Milo DuQuette - and your message about the Abbey!
For more information (for people who speak Greek of course) you may visit my personal blog: http://apopheneia.blogspot.com /"> http://apopheneia.blogspot.com/
Tourist traps like Celafu usually have onerous real=estate laws regarding foreign ownership of property. Usually the property has to revert to a resident of the country after a period of time.
I'm not sure what EU law would be on this, but EU law wasn't that much of a help in Spain, where the homes of UK migrants were bulldozed....
I suppose one would need to transfer citizenship to Italy, perhaps having to live there 6 months of the year. This could be useful:-
Became a member today, only because I want to support the idea of an Abbey restauration.
Unfortunately I am not rich, and there is no thelemic group or organisation in Belgium, the small country where I live. So, I am completely alone, but you all have my support !