Greetings

Thank you Einstein!
Another way to help is to send energy to our "Lighthouse".
I'm not sure if you are aware of the Lighthouse Working. If not, you can read about it here: http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-4560.phtml.

The purpose is to keep the Abbey of Thelema charged and help it become a lighthouse of Love and Will which will shine its light to the whole world.

Regards
Hecate

We're trying to see what the options are with lawyers over here in Italy.
Once Hecate, I ,and whoever is interested in starting this thing, get our course of action decided, we wil be creating a site or a facebook page, or both, for that matter.

93s to all,

Fr. Lucius

read about it here: http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/PNphpBB2-vi ... 560.phtml.

For some reason I cannot open this page...

Not rich either, but I do live in Las Vegas and have had some contact with the O.T.O. and various other metaphysical bodies in the area. If there's any sort of fund-raiser type events that will start being organized at a later time when this is all underway, I'll be happy to help over here.

Sorry. I believe you'll be able to open it now:
http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/PNphpBB2-viewtopic-t-4560.phtml

Hi, Einstein, greetings from Flanders, Belgium too, and of course I support Hecate's initiative to save the Abbey of Thelema.

I would like to help out in any way I can, though I have more time than money. Please keep me posted!

Greetings!

I guess we've just got the first official answer:

Ur-OTO and AA will participate in the non-profit organization’s board of partners through their Greek representative.

Regards
Hecate

Really?, that's fine news to hear, Hecate!

Yes, isnt' it alysa?

Let's see if the rest Orders will find it too in their heart to participate in this project.

Regards
Hecate

Yes of course it is, I'm very happy that it is, I also hope more and more Orders and individuals will find it interesting to participate, positive greetings and keep on the interesting work!

Greetings

Someone asked me which lineage of A:.A:. it is and I think I should let you know too.
I was told that it is the Jane Wolfe & Phyllis Seckler lineage.

Regards
Hecate

Yeah it's always interesting to know, which branch of the A.A. it is, I even am able to ask can you be more specific is it the Branch of the A.A. related with the College and Temple of Thelema (Jim Eshelman) or is it the branch of the A.A. related with the College of Thelema of Northern California (Dr. David Shoemacher)?

I have no idea about that Alysa.
I will ask them on Tuesday, when all the ones who are going to participate in the organization will start working as a team.

Regards
Hecate

Thats interesting to look forward to.

Hecate, congratulations and best wishes on your effort!

One question though, is this the same AA "lineage" that was presented on issue 64 (September 2010) of Mystery magazine? The one "represented" by one Frater S. and whose e-mail address is argentumastrum.gr@gmail.com?

Thank you iapetos666.
I'm afraid I don't have an answer.

Regards
Hecate

Maybe you should rent first. See how it goes. What if Celafu’s political establishment turns “Satan’s Vatican” into a political whipping boy? They’re already up in arms about the Pepe Le Peu Graveyard, the final resting place of Jim Morrison, Jim Croce and Jimmy Hendrix, the little cemetary on the other side of the island - the Three Graves of Jim - Where odd youth pilgrims (1980’s punxs in fading black leather) gather to mourn the 3 Jims with spastic heroin needles and odd midnight quorums till 4 in the morning. It’s a disgrace to the local constabulary.

But, if you rented the Abbey first, convinced the local hotels you were a plus to the tourist economy, Celafu’s politicians might even help you buy a permanent Abbey.

Greetings!

Ur-OTO and an A:.A:. Order of Jane Wolfe & Phyllis Seckler lineage were the only ones who answered to the invitation, so the ones who will participate in the board of partners had our first online meeting this evening and we started working as a team. I’m sure there are a lot of things to take into consideration and, in every case, we have to keep a fast pace, but I believe we’ll do fine.

I have shown the Abbey pictures to an architect friend of mine and he said he doesn’t think that it can be restored or that the murals can be saved. However I’m willing to keep trying to save it until the end. I just can’t accept that today’s technology would fail to save this place.

Although I won’t bother you with the minor details, I plan to keep the community informed about the most important aspects of this process.

I believe it is obvious that we’re starting this endeavour from zero. Therefore, I make a plea to everyone who can contribute to this work, financially and/or through personal work, to contact me. It will take us a few weeks to have the not-for-profit organization formally established, but, until then, we can certainly make some more steps towards the goal.

We’ll soon need the help of an engineer, an architect, an expert in the restoration of historical buildings and pieces of art, a financial counselor and even an accountant based in Italy. And we’ll also have to build an official website eventually, so any help in the designing and the administration of this website would be appreciated as well.

As a matter of fact, there will be many more needs in the future, so I would encourage everyone who’d like to contribute to this cause by offering personal work, to send me a pm or an e-mail regarding their professional qualifications and/or experience, as well as any ideas about using them in this project.

What a bet we have made, and what an interesting experiment we have in our hands!

Regards
Hecate

I am a drifter and a skilled carpenter. keep in touch with me hecate. i may not have any money to offer but i would love to restore the place.

93,

If for some reason none of it can be saved, perhaps an artist or few can "re-create" some of the material, maybe.

Kudos to you Hecate, and everyone who is willing and able to embark upon this project. I won't mind helping where I can once the website is formed and we can donate via Pay Pal and such.

Also, I believe that for anyone who ever truly wanted to help restore the Abbey, or at least see anything done to it at all, this is the project to help with. It is probably the first real chance, and possibly the only real chance to preserve the Abbey in some way.

93 93/93

93,

Cheers for the encouragement, Azidonis.

93 93/93

I really am appreciative of the efforts you do for trying to restore and maintain the Abbey of Thelema for the future, Hecate, hope also to help where I can, also I hope you at least get more answers from the organisations you send the invitation to, kudos to you and best wishes and keep up the interesting work!

Greetings

Thank you for your kind words Alysa and Azidonis, it’s good to know that there are positive feelings for our endeavour.

Many thanks to everyone who have sent messages of support and offered to help in any way they can, too.

As for my partners, I can’t stress enough how grateful I am that they have decided to participate in this organization and I'd like to notice that it is “us” who decide and act now.

‘We’ are four partners at the moment (you already know me and Frater Lucius) and perhaps become five in a few days, but we have decided that we’ll form our memorandum of association in a way that we’ll be able to accept more partners in the future in case another Thelemic Order would finally decide to participate. The purpose is not only to have more people helping the cause, but also to have a more ‘Thelemic’ board of partners if possible.

Kind Regards
Anna

I have shown the Abbey pictures to an architect friend of mine and he said he doesn’t think that it can be restored or that the murals can be saved. However I’m willing to keep trying to save it until the end. I just can’t accept that today’s technology would fail to save this place.

Not sure I agree with that - of course, it's complicated by the close proximity of the football ground. Obviously the roof needs to come off and the back portion of the building needs to come down and then be rebuilt.

I agree about the paintings, they are pretty much runied - this is because the cost to restore would far outweigh what they could ever be worth - of course, if they were by Leonardo or Michaelangelo, then it would not be so much of a problem....

i think we would be better off having a reconstruction of the murals.
they are great not so much for their antiquity but for their content and what they say about the man.
it would also negate the money sucking impossibility that would be restoring them.
a newly painted in the same medium, (oil maybe?) copy would be just as appreciated and not as time consuming.
just my two cents.
for restoring i would focus on the building itself and it's layout.

93,

Don't forget to see some of this from Paul's point of view as well. I mean, one of the murals says, "...soak me in Cunt, Cognac, and Cocaine...". While we may take it for its "value" according to A.C.'s legacy, others may read this and go nuts, especially the type that are in the midst of a "holy war" with Islam at the moment.

93 93/93

LOL!

Having studied Crowley on a daily basis for the past 35 years, I'm way past being shocked by anything the old man wrote!

"...soak me in Cunt, Cognac, and Cocaine...".

So as not to offend, perhaps we could change it to:-

"...soak me in Gunt, Cognac, and Cocaine...".

Actually, it's "cognac, cunt and cocaine..."

I really doubt that the biggest challenge in the whole enterprise would be the "Soak me in cognac, cunt and cocaine" line on the wall... 🙂

Greetings Azidonis

Indeed, I know where Paul comes from when he says “I see only controversy and negativity resulting” and he certainly doesn’t refer to the "Soak me in cognac, cunt and cocaine" line. We could probably spend hours discussing things on a philosophical basis in order to explain why we should or shouldn’t let the known history influence our decision to restore the Abbey, but I really don’t feel like it.

My common sense tells me that if I have done my ‘homework’ and if I am balanced enough and well grounded, people will behave to me in a balanced way as well or, at least, we’ll be able to work things out peacefully.

I’d like to make another point though.
As I said before, the Abbey’s owner wasn’t fluent in English, so Domenica had to play the role of the translator for us during our meeting. At some point I realized that she used some words that didn’t correspond to my sayings and I asked her what she was telling him.

I don't remember all her words precisely, but her answer was in general like that : “I told him that you don’t care to buy the place for yourself but just wish to take care of it and that, although Crowley didn't have a good reputation, you respect his philosophy very much and you feel very close to him. Also that you were very sad when we visited the place and you looked like a mother who lost her son and she wishes to cherish all that was left from him.”
(That certainly explained a look of sympathy he had given me while she was talking.)

At first I felt a bit annoyed because I didn’t really wish to get into drama. Then I thought that her words might be helpful, after all. Finally, by the time we came back to Athens, I had realized that her description of my attitude was rather precise.

It is true that if I wished to promote Thelema and have the less possible friction, I could find much better ways to achieve it than bringing out the Cefalu period. But, allow me to use the above experience and ask you: if you had a mischievous child, would you decide to reject him and throw away everything that could remind you of his worst deeds? I believe that I would have tried to bring out something nice from everything that he had done, not in order to pervert the truth, but rather to help people see deeper in his soul and understand him and realize that even the deepest darkness carries a light –and vice versa.

OK, I’m not proud for some of his deeds, but then again, why should I be proud and who am I to judge him? I’d never advise anyone to repeat certain attitudes, but does that mean that I shouldn’t love and accept and cherish his being? I wouldn't feel balanced if I would have decided to throw away even the least part of the whole.
It seems to me that love is the way, after all.

Regards
Hecate

Hecate, if I may deviate for just a moment: What did you think of the place in terms of it being a good choice by AC for an Abbey of Thelema? Forgetting for a moment the political climate there at the time, and other such considerations. I mean the building itself, it's size, configuration, and so on?

93,

Glad you got a laugh. I wasn't saying you would be shocked though. I was referring to you pointing out the "negativity resulting", which in one way could come from such statements as that quoted. Thanks for correcting the quote.

I can imagine the headlines: "Infamous Satanist Aleister Crowley's 'Abbey of Thelema' restored!" Of course then it would go on to flame him in as many ways possible, and pick at the various events that occurred in the Abbey, as well as the cited mural.

One of these days, maybe his name will be cleared. Maybe not. Maybe they'll just start dropping the stupid "satanist" remark. Not like it matters to those who know the difference.

93 93/93

What did you think of the place in terms of it being a good choice by AC for an Abbey of Thelema? Forgetting for a moment the political climate there at the time, and other such considerations. I mean the building itself, it's size, configuration, and so on?

If I could cut in 😉 each corner of the house faces one of the compass points. The corner of each room of the temple, similarly faces each of the compass points. During rituals Crowley is recorded as being seated in the East corner, with Hirsig in the West. The temple is right at the center of the building, surrounded by a number of rooms, some of which are interconnected. There is a letter from Jane Wolfe to Symonds - with a diagram which records who lived in what room - the Lovedays were in the room directly off Crowley's which is also connected to the temple.

Of course, the temple has now, sadly been divided into two with the high ceiling pulled down, both of these modifications happened during the time of Kenneth Angers visit in the 1950s. Anger recorded this is a letter to either Yorke or Symonds - can't remember which - now in the Warburg institute collection - in which Anger also mentions his frustration at not being able to fully record the design of the circle, before the room was pulled down. The temple really must have been an impressive space in it's day, very large [about 15 to 20 ft sq] and square with a high valuted ceiling.

The location of the villa, is of interest too; each morning the Sun rises over the east side of the building, and in the afternoon, illuminates the front. Nearby is La Roca, which would have provided Crowley with some absolutely fantastic opportunities for mountain climbing. The house, not surrounded with dwellings at that time, would have been set very nicely apart from the town, up a fairly steep hill. Behind the villa, are larger, higher hills. On the North East side is a small lane that leads down the the cemetery - this is still there, on the South East side is a road that leads round La Roca to a bay, that would have been pretty secluded in the 1920s.

Greetings Camilion!

It’s nice that michaelclarke decided to share this info about the central hall etc. I wasn’t aware of it.

If I wouldn’t have seen the pictures in Lashtal’s Galleries, I would expect to find something much bigger than a house of approximately 100 square meters. I’m not sure how many people they used to house there at the same time, but I guess they used to spend most of their time in the nature. Perhaps AC had in mind to use some other houses in the area too, if needed in the future? If I remember well, the heroes in the “Diary of a Drug Fiend” used several different buildings…

The front of the Abbey looks to the NW and the view over the gentle slope to the old city and the Tyrrhenian Sea should be great in AC’s time. It still is, but one cannot see much from the Abbey’s window, since there is a house built in front of the Abbey.

It took me about 20 min to walk uphill from the B&B I was staying by the Duomo Piazza. The Abbey is in such position that they could easily reach both seashores on the east and the west side of La Rocca, in less than 30 min.

I found on Google Earth that the property’s elevation is 98 m and it lies on the fold which connects La Rocca and the hill on the south of it.
As a matter of fact, the Abbey seems to be nested between three hills:
La Rocca (246 m high), the hill on the south of it (342 m high) and another hill on the east of it (150 m high) which actually comes as an extension of a mountain on the SE.

Ancient Greeks used to call Sicily “Trinakria” (three ends) or “Triskelia” (three legs), due to its triangular shape. I find it interesting that the motif of the “3 ends” can be seen not only on Sicily’s flag (image1), but also on Cefalu’s coat of arms (image 2) and on La Rocca itself (if you look at it from above you’ll see that it forms a rough triangle).

1. Sicilian flag

2. Cefalu’s coat of arms

The house has no foundations and the walls seem to be made from stones mixed with some sort of mortar. I noticed some grey (?) floor tiles in the weedy front yard of the Abbey, broken and covered with dirt and rubbish. On Sunday noon, while I was inside the mural room for the working, some people came to exercise in the Stadium. I could hear them as if they were in the next room. Of course it wasn’t strange, since a big part of the roof has collapsed.

The locals believe that the house is haunted, as you already know. At some point of my discussion with the owner, I asked who else lived in the house after AC and he said that he lived there as a child, with his mother and his aunt. I said “Aw, you lived there as a child! I wonder how come you didn’t feel curious to learn more about Aleister Crowley… how come you weren’t influenced by his philosophy!”. He answered “No, no. I believe in God. I am a Christian. Here, when we move to a house, we call the priest to bless it, so everything leaves, there is nothing to be afraid of”….

The energy of the Abbey though is wonderful, like a spring of deep running water waiting to be tapped, or a gate waiting to be passed. I can’t wait the time to visit it again!

Regards
Hecate

Thank you both for these added perspectives, they are helpful.

10 years from now you might be able to pull it off. After 17 more world wide priest scandals completely destroy the credibility of the Black Brothers. At this point in time, though, obvious construction would be giving the Black Brothers a way to distract the faithful with a little tried and true Fried Templar Action. Lurk yet a while longer.

Greetings

A couple of people have asked me “what will to the money if you can’t buy the Abbey for some reason?”

My intention is to use them to support another cause related to Aleister Crowley’s legacy or even in some benefaction in his memory. Of course it would all depend on the raised amount of money but... would you like to make any suggestions here?

Regards
Hecate

Maybe if we can't buy the Abbey of Thelema, we can use the raised funds to publication-efforts of rare publications once published and since then expired, related to Crowley, Thelema, (S)OTO, A.A. . . . , just my two cents.

Greetings 🙂

Alysa, yes, donating to book printing would be a good idea.
A friend suggested that we could also do something for persons who are addicted to drugs. Perhaps we could donate to some innovative program for drug addicts –if there is any.

Nevertheless, we still have to work for our purpose, so we have created a Facebook page, titled "Save the Abbey of Θέλημα". Here is the link:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Save-the-Abbey-of-Thelema/160239737327637

Besides, Michael Clarke offered to create and host the organization's official website. Thank you, Michael!

Paul, many thanks to you too, for providing us the opportunity to have this conversation here on Lashtal.

Regards
Hecate

Why not just return the money to the individuals that donated it?

Greetings!

Well, that would be a good idea and it would probably save us a lot of friction too, but what will happen with the money that we'll raise from various events?

It will be easy to spot the ones who will make personal donations, but how will we know who purchased tickets etc? I'm not sure that I know how to handle this.

Perhaps we could return the money to the ones who made personal donations and then donate the rest of it to some other cause (or just pay the ones who volunteered for the events?)
What do you think?

Regards
Hecate

What did Jack Parsons do with the rest of his money after L.Ron Hubbard stole his boat?

Christ, you're too deep for me.

...Then there's all the Mark David Chapman types the project would attract to Celafu at this point in time. The type of spin outs who attacked George Harrison in his mansion with knives while he slept... Don't worry though, these spinning brothers are fond of pizza and candybars and should be celebrating the greater feast of charnelhydrates soon, then you could safely restore the Abbey. Until the current crop of sugar spinners shuffle off the mortal coil though, I'm afraid the Abbey would be attracting a fair share of blank eyed pilgrims with cigarette lighters and gasolene cans and rolled up newspapers whose ink comes off on your fingers.

Greetings

From my point of view fear is not an option, ApeOfTheApeOfThot.
I’d be open to any creative and practical suggestions though… 😉

Regards
Hecate

OK, what do you think about this image as a logo for the "Save the Abbey of Thelema" organization? 🙂

Unfortunately I don't have any special software, so I made it using Microsoft's Paint and Power Point.

Regards
Hecate

it reminds me too much of baby products
i think it si the colouring and the font.
i think the lighthouse would be a good icon too.
thelemic types know what that icon is but if you want support from more quarters a more generic 'idol' might be more appropriate.
In my Humble Opinion 😀
I like the layout and general idea though.
Just maybe a darker blue, like navy-er , and perhaps a more straight font.
good job so far Hecate!