in disrepair, but has known days of lust and sin.
i know the feeling…
Yes but the link also talks about organizing free lectures about Crowley in 2015 in order to eventually get funding to turn the abbey into a museum...
One really needs to read this entire thread to understand the (probably) futile gesture. Anyone donating to "Save the Abbey and make it into a museum" should read Ch 88 (Gold Bricks) in The Book of Lies.
Post #1 (the OP) in this thread said: "He asked some specialists to estimate the value of the house and they said it’s 1.500.000 € at least. He mentioned more than once that he knows it’s falling apart ..."
In summary: The owner of the Villa Disrepair is asking a mil+ (million+) or so. Serious attempts at negotiation have failed. Something is not right in Denmark, er, Sicily. Good luck to the Museum project; please watch your wallets and purses.
Yes but the link also talks about organizing free lectures about Crowley in 2015 in order to eventually get funding to turn the abbey into a museum...
It doesn't actually say they are going to turn the Abbey into a Museum; it says they are going to create a museum. Not necessarily the same thing. If they do mean the Abbey, best of luck!
I miss Anna very much (anna apoustilidou) and all I can say is that she was a great seeker on the path and after Thelema she went into Entelechy. That was her own thing.
I hope that she is still alive, I lost contact quite some time ago.
So;
Paul can back me up, she was doing the whole Restore the Abbey project. It was going well.
Then I think she got into some legal troubles because Governments don't want you to profit off old land.
93s
Chris
It was going well.
Then I think she got into some legal troubles because Governments don't want you to profit off old land.
I do not remember it "going well" at any point ... except maybe when the idea first came up and people got excited.
Once engaged in the task, the progress reports cited slow progress ... finally leading to the [supposed] owner who wanted $100,000 for a place worth about $60,000.
So, yeah, there was certainly a BIG profit factor involved.
Governmental Governance of Greedy Gluts is probably a good thing, but it slows down the restoration of the past. Soon there will be nothing left to restore. All of everyone's eggs will be in one Boleskine.
In the long run, wouldn't be more cost-effective and less expensive to have some computer wiz create a 3-D virtual tour of the Abbey of Thelema? I have read that 3-D virtual tours may be available in Egypt to help preserve the integrity of the wall paintings. The Lascaux Cave paintings are now restricted from tourist, but a virtual tour exists.
In the long run, wouldn't be more cost-effective and less expensive to have some computer wiz create a 3-D virtual tour of the Abbey of Thelema
In the short run, it already exists. Interior decorating is still proceeding slowly, or has been side-tracked. @ptoner is an architect. See him for further unpdates or undates. This was, and still is, a great idea. However ...
A virtual tour is not a hard-bound house on the physical plane. Cost-effectiveness on either side of the fence is of no concern, as the gov put a lock on the hi-priced sale and the pictures painted on the walls are not available in detail so that's where it stopped.
3-D virtual tours may be available in Egypt
How cool. Does this mean you will recreate the Abbey in digits ... or are you just dreaming up work for somebody else to do?
A virtual tour is not a hard-bound house on the physical plane. Cost-effectiveness on either side of the fence is of no concern, as the gov put a lock on the hi-priced sale and the pictures painted on the walls are not available in detail so that's where it stopped.
Yeah, you're right. It would not have the psychic womp of actually being there. You can read about the Battle at Gettysburg, but you don't get the real significance unless you visit the site.
As far as I know, the virtual tours in Egypt are just in discussion. I can understand not wanting all of that body sweat of thousands of tourists visiting tombs. All that salt takes a toll on ancient wall painting. But it would be sad not to able to experience the physical power of actually being in a tomb or the temple at Karnak.
Just dreaming of work for someone else to do.
I miss Anna very much (anna apoustilidou) and all I can say is that she was a great seeker on the path and after Thelema she went into Entelechy. That was her own thing.
Yes, I don't know what happened to Anna, she also used to be quite active on FB, but hasn't been on there in years. I guess she deleted.
The problem with the Abbey is that the legal situation is so complex. I used to see it being advertised at silly asking prices ie north of 1m Euros. But that's all gone quiet.
Meanwhile the place continues to fall down.
@toadstoolwe
Buildings need maintenance. In fact, there would be no historical buildings left if your view was widespread.
I'd love to see the abbey restored - complete with central temple - and rented out as a holiday let to AC followers; so they could visit and experience the space. It's quite a magical location for those who have made the effort to visit.
Buildings need maintenance. In fact, there would be no historical buildings left if your view was widespread.
No, not at all! I am totally in favor of restoring historic buildings. It's a cost factor. IF you can raise the kind of capital, you need and can go through the red tape of finding contractors, art historians (For the murals that look like they have eeb defaced with spray paint) and other related craftsmen, then great! Go for it. I just don't think investors would be willing to back if there is no return to be had. Good Luck!
I'd love to see the abbey restored
Yeah. Despite my frequent sarcasms about how the restoration has gone, the idea of such a place is among the archetypes of the causal plane. Wonderful, uplifting ... but perhaps wishful thinking.
It's quite a magical location for those who have made the effort
Please define "magical location."
That is, is it "charged," "a place that causes change," "a portal to another dimension" ?
I am not being sarcastic here. Perhaps elsewhere, at times. I have published account of vortices and enchanted isles (that I actually visited), so I have an interest in "energy zones" of any kind. So what, specifically, is special about Cefalu?
IF you can raise the kind of capital
Those with unlimited funds can do just about anything. Pay the asking price, pay handsome bribes to every gov agent and real estate agent and lawyer, right down the line. Then send in the architects (contact @ptoner required), the cleaner-uppers, the (re)construction crew, be sure to use metal roofing, at least under the restored-whatever-material for future longevity. Then bribe all local officials, and nearby residents, to ensure their support in anything you do with the finished product.
But no such Rich Man from d'West is currently on-scene..
art historians (For the murals that look like they have eeb defaced with spray paint)
There has ben a decade or two of search for this data. I do not think even Man d'West can find an "art historian" who can dig up those originals. And without them, the restoration would not be original. So you might be right, maybe it's best ... after all, the magic there is dead, the (physical) decomposition is well-advanced, and it's against the law to buy it.
investors
Aha ... now comes the financial con on top of the religio-spiritual con.
There has ben a decade or two of search for this data. I do not think even Man d'West can find an "art historian" who can dig up those originals. And without them, the restoration would not be original. So you might be right, maybe it's best ... after all, the magic there is dead, the (physical) decomposition is well-advanced, and it's against the law to buy it.
I read somewhere that Kenneth Anger was trying to restore the murals. It can be done. Other works of art have been restored; it doesn't make them any less original. Tomb paintings have been restored and whole structures moved to other locations other than the original place. (Like Abu-Simbel and The Temple of Philae) Even the Sistine Chapel. But yes it would take tons of money. I doubt the World Heritage Foundation would find much value in restoring the Abbey of Do What Thou Wilt. As a tourist draw, it would be risky.
I read somewhere that Kenneth Anger was trying to restore the murals.
This is old news, and it has been covered here, years ago. Anger's efforts are included in what is known or seen. I don't think he is still working on this project.
It all comes down to this: The pictures are lost, done, gone, and missing. Partial elements indicate that AC, et al, were living in a nightmarish bordello where people were being sodomized by demons ... or perhaps Anunnaki, or Danavas, their "race" is not clearly defined.
So Cefalu was the prototype for the new aeon? A place where hard (not "strange") drugs were in common use (see: "addiction"), the premises were reportedly "filthy" (see: "Jane Wolfe"), and prosperity is not a word used to describe their social and financial status.
I have wondered about this ... and then compared it to my own, personal experiences in the wilderness. "Hard" drugs were never part of my adventures, so we can dismiss that requirement.
"Filthiness" goes along with being in the wilderness, which usually involves a lot of dirt. But, get this - if one "finds their center," the dirt doesn't stick, and the state of the environment doesn't matter, because one is accepting reality as it is without concern, and one's vehicle is made up more by electricity than matter ...
But they still should have tidied up a bit more.
It can be done.
Then you have found your Life's Work, your True Will ... or are you just dreaming up things for other people to do?
We already know the answer to this, but I ask the question so that innocent (ha) readers might avoid confusion as to who is doing what.
As a tourist draw, it would be risky.
Yeah. I wonder how long the "Thelemites" will keep the {image of a] decaying corpus laying In State with hopes of resurrection or necromancy?
So Cefalu was the prototype for the new aeon? A place where hard (not "strange") drugs were in common use (see: "addiction"), the premises were reportedly "filthy" (see: "Jane Wolfe"), and prosperity is not a word used to describe their social and financial status.
Seems, more like a proto-beatnik/hippie commune. Here's an interesting link: ( https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov ) Washington Times March 25, 1923, page 2, Image 58. Headline, NEWEST ACTIVITIES OF THE HEAD OF THE DEVIL WORSHIPPERS. ALEISTER CROWLEY HIGH PRIEST OF THE WICKED "DO ANYTHING YOU WANT TO" Retrospectively, pretty amusing in it's purple prose.
Seems, more like a proto-beatnik/hippie commune.
Exactly! Give the Toad a cigar or joint of his choice.
And then what happened? Everything got consolidated into the OTO, which got closed, then re-opened by McM, who dressed eccentrically and was always [not really] seen with a can of beer and a joint in his hands. He was criticized for surrounding himself with "hippie" types, and then the "hippie types" got command of the control room, which is where we're at now ...
Exactly! Give the Toad a cigar or joint of his choice.
Roll up a fatty and smoke it for me. I'll get the contact buzz.
Cefalu was certainly much more rustic in the 1920's, but it was not the wilderness...farm goods were available, and drugs were procured through contacts in town, and yes there was and is the sea, the cliffs and sky...
If no-one has put a proper clay roof on till now, then at some point the floor and walls will be but a tunnel to the sky!
And sometime it takes the blocking of light to see the stars. I am sure that AC and company were well treated to the blue lidded daughter of sunset in a manner not available under the glamor dressing of the electric arc of modern day.
It looks like Cefalu is too built up now even if it were to be all fixed up and the murals digitally outlined for paint by number perfection of a true hell....as tourist arcade....but I am sure that there are many similar structures in locations nested away from the madden crowd...and hopefully without cell coverage!
Seems, more like a proto-beatnik/hippie commune.
The Otto Gross was doing similar things in a non religious context a little before Cefalu
... hopefully without cell coverage!
You exceed the limits of morality and dependency.
How else could I check ...
stock values
gold price
local weather,
space weather,
war news,
etc
... on an hourly basis ?
I had never heard of Otto Gross before; you learn something new everyday. Thanks. But after reading a brief Wikipedia article about him, I come to the conclusion that he, like Crowley fell victim to their own libertinism. We can't forget Francoise Rabelais, the great granddaddy of Theleme.Seems, more like a proto-beatnik/hippie commune.
The Otto Gross was doing similar things in a non religious context a little before Cefalu
That is, is it "charged," "a place that causes change," "a portal to another dimension" ?
For me, all three.....there is something in the fabric of the place.
I do find the 'historical' rather helpful when it comes to different aspects of exploration.
In the abbey space, I feel invocations will be particularly powerful.
However, recent pictures indicate a higher level of dilapidation. More worryingly, many areas of the frescos have seen graffiti sprayed over the top and in other areas where trophy hunters have cut sections off the wall.
All in all, not great.
@michaelclarke18 Sounds like the Abbey of Do Thou Wilt should be ceremoniously closed by magic(K) banishment rituals. And symbolically or psychically burned to the ground. (Notice I said symbolically or psychically I know arson is a serious crime, and I would NEVER condone or encourage anyone doing a criminal act.) Put it out of its misery so to speak.
Sounds like the Abbey of Do Thou Wilt should be ceremoniously closed by magic(K) banishment rituals.
I was. El Duce did it. He ordered all foreign "journalists" out of the Realm, Exile, banishment, in the strictest sense on the physical plane.
Thou has become a Magus
Get Out
And that brought an end to that adventure.
I don't know that anyone burned incense and sprinkled water to close the circle. A few members stayed on for a while after AC left. But there's no need to mount an expedition to go in like Ghostbusters to purify the place.
If I have my chronology straight, Therion took on Kether in the latter days of Cefalu. So there's nothing left to purify ... just some strange ideas in some folks' heads.
A short while later, up in France I think it was, AC fell ill, and he said, "To put it simply, I died." Well, that's simple enough. He may have done the ceremonial prerequisite to getting out, back at Cefalu, but one's efforts are rarely instantaneous. Ceremonies of self-initiation merely set that process in motion ... in one's daily life. The admission to the Kether penthouse in death, so that's all lined up.
@shiva Interesting. I guess you know Mussolini became a real-live "Hanged Man' Tarot card. He was hanged upside down. Pretty Kether, huh?
I had never heard of Otto Gross before; you learn something new everyday. Thanks.
You're welcome.
I come to the conclusion that he, like Crowley fell victim to their own libertinism.
It's one of the perils of working with the principle of Indulgence even in a non-magickal sense. Always keep it under Will.
El Duce did it.
Interestingly, he kept his distance from Evola.
@katrice Who kept their distance from Evola, Mussolini or Crowley? If Mussolini, why?
Pretty Kether, huh?
Probably Atu XII. Kether has no up or down.
Interestingly, he kept his distance from Evola.
Musso was expelling "journalists." Crowley had a fairly recent career in journalism, so he qualified. I do not recall seeing any journalistic linkages to Evola. Was he there it the Roman Realm during the expulsion?
@katrice Who kept their distance from Evola, Mussolini or Crowley? If Mussolini, why?
Mussolini. Evidently, he was actually intimidated by Evola and respected him as a true magician. Evola still felt the need for extra protection during that time, though. Evola was aware of Crowley, and wrote about his works, and there may have been some contact between the Abbey and the UR Group, but as far as I know Evola and Crowley never crossed paths. Reghini had some OTO connections, though.
@katrice Thank you for your tip. I located a couple of books that probably address your comment. Julius Evola, the Philosopher and Magician in War, 1943-1945. And, Introduction to magic: Ritual and Practical Techniques for the Magus. Both books are available on the Internet Archive. I will definitely read them both.
@toadstoolwe
Introduction to magic is actually three volumes, all of which are well worth reading. They're some of my favorite books on magickal practice. His Eros and the Mysteries of Love also has some commentary of Crowley, and on Maria de Naglowska too.
@katrice Awesome! If I can find a relevant thread, I'll give my observations. (For what there worth).
expulsion
It is doubly ironic considering Mussolini himself was a journalist and newspaper editor. I am kind of unclear as to your concluding line "Was he there it the Roman Realm during the expulsion" I think it is a typo, but what do you mean by the Roman Realm? The Fascist State? Weren't the Sicilians more or less hostile to Rome?
@katrice Awesome! If I can find a relevant thread, I'll give my observations. (For what there worth).
On a note semi-related to your comment on Gross, Maria clearly worked with Indulgence, though it seems like the Confrerie de la Flèche d'Or didn't survive her because the members were too dependent on her than anything else, which shows another potential flaw in magickal groups and their leaders.
On a note semi-related to your comment on Gross, Maria clearly worked with Indulgence, though it seems like the Confrerie de la Flèche d'Or didn't survive her because the members were too dependent on her than anything else, which shows another potential flaw in magickal groups and their leaders.
Couldn't that be applied to the "group think" found in all pseudo-religious organizations? The dependance on leadership is encouraged. For example, Alcoholics Anonymous with its trappings of a religious community, the almost mythical status of Dr. Bill, and Bob Wilson. The AA house is a site of pilgrimage to members as well as the original coffee pot used in the first AA meeting that is now a "sacred" relic to group. (They would Denie it, but believe me, I know.) Apologizes to going off topic for a second, but it illustrates your point..
Apologizes to going off topic for a second, but it illustrates your point..
It may be off topic re: saving the Abbey, but it touches on the flaws of the Abbey. Certainly Maria did nothing to discourage her followers' dependence, and probably enjoyed the reverence, but they also willingly assigned that importance to her. It sounds like the example you mention with AA.
Indulgence is a dangerous Word to work with, it can bring great rewards, but also degenerate in to addiction, or as a mere justification for empty debauchery. But in my opinion, the danger is part of the point, it tests its adherents.
Interestingly, Leah Hirsig's sister, despite her apparent horror at the direction Leah's life went in, ended up becoming a follower of Pierre Bernard. I guess joining sex cults ran in the family. 😉
@katrice Sounds to me that it is more rebellion against the post-Victorian views about sex and chastity. I am sure you are aware of the "Free Love" movement during that same era. If I am not mistaken there was cult in 1900s America called the House of David. The member lived communally. The men not allowed to shave or cut their hair. The leader of the group Benjamin Purnell as accused of having sex with underage girls in the commune. It was the same old ploy; illicit sex was necessary to led a Holy Life. Of course, the Grand POOBA got all the action.
In the case of Hirsig's sister, I just found it ironic that she was horrified at Leah's affiliation with Crowley, but still hooked up with Bernard.
There were plenty of such things going on at the time. Thomas Lake Harris's Brotherhood of New Life, and John Humphrey Noyes's Oneida community. Yes, the people known for their silverware now started out as a communal sex cult. Crowley, de Naglowska, and Bernard were hardly alone.
The men not allowed to shave or cut their hair. The leader of the group Benjamin Purnell as accused of having sex with underage girls in the commune.
This is a cookie-cutter archetype that appears regularly. Although holiness is given as an excuse, look carefully and you might see the old alpha male in charge of his family.
It was the same old ploy
Right. It can be seen in any generation, going backward from here to, say, One Million BEV. It's a reversion, not a step forward in evolution.
There were plenty of such things going on at the time.
And probably at any other time.
This is a cookie-cutter archetype that appears regularly. Although holiness is given as an excuse, look carefully and you might see the old alpha male in charge of his family.
What was the "Ur" cookie cutter do you think?
In the case of Hirsig's sister, I just found it ironic that she was horrified at Leah's affiliation with Crowley, but still hooked up with Bernard.
i was trying to look up the dates...there is a book about Bernhard which is an interesting read, but I don't have a copy...anyways I came across this interesting essay with lots on Leah!
Proximal Authority
The Changing Role of Leah Hirsig in Aleister Crowley’s Thelema, 1919–1930
In: Aries
The Changing Role of Leah Hirsig in Aleister Crowley’s Thelema, 1919–1930
Interesting! Thank you! They mention The Family which is definitely a later example of the "alpha" idea we've discussed in recent posts on this thread.
and this:
"Following the leader’s death or loss of charisma, new religions are faced with the challenge of the ‘routinisation of charisma’, that is, the transmission of authority to new forms of leadership."
was essentially what caused Maria's following to fall apart without her.
Glad you liked the article and its treatment of what is perhaps all too human a situation...for all involved.
The issues concerning Leah and the role of the "Scarlet Woman" are well handled in the article and are thought worthy, as was reading that of a Commentary K to Liber Legis, which i did not know nor that Leah had suggested an alteration to Liber Ligis!....I wonder what that was?
Leah had suggested an alteration to Liber Ligis!....I wonder what that was?
I admit that one surprised me as well. I can't remember having seen mention of that before. I'm very curious to know what it was too.
Leah had suggested an alteration to Liber Ligis!....I wonder what that was?
I admit that one surprised me as well. I can't remember having seen mention of that before. I'm very curious to know what it was too.
AL 1:60 Comment: "In the original MSS. the second paragraph begins “The shape of my star is” – and then breaks off – the Scribe was unable to hear what was being said. This was presumably because his mind was so full of preconceived ideas about the different kinds of stars appropriate to various ideas. An alternate phrase was subsequently dictated to the Scarlet Woman, and inserted in the manuscript by her own hand. "
3:72 "“Coph Nia”: the original MS. has “—-”; left incomplete as not having been properly heard. The present text was filled in later in her own hand by the first Scarlet Woman. "
There may be others. For some reason I remember her writing the "use whiter words", although Crowley's comment attributes it to Aiwass, but I believe it was her handwriting? There may have been other parts, but its been years. To find the above, I just searched the Old and New Comments for "Scarlet".
Thanks and now I forget about where I had read this about Leah and some proposed alteration of something Liber Legis that might have been a change of a key word that then throws open a different rosetta of interpretation or initiated knowledge to pour through...
Crowley wrote about her changes in The Equinox of the Gods too, if I recall correctly. I'm not sure her alterations would make a difference, as we've always known them that way. Or if anything would've happened differently as a result of different wording, that is unknown.