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kidneyhawk
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21/10/2006 6:04 pm  

I know that some written material is available regarding the "Women of the Golden Dawn," but has anyone written a BOOK dealing specifically with AC's sundry "Scarlet Women?"

I would think I'm not alone in reading AC as having a bit of a "dismissive" attitude overall to the various women in his life who played some very vital roles in his Workings. This is, of course, open to debate-Crowley's words certainly shift about in terms of his regard/disregard for his "Women." It's interesting to read his assessment of how so and so "failed" to live up to the Work in certain circumstances and then read of his own self-doubt, that he, the Beast, failed from adequate "faith," something admonished repeatedly during the Abuldiz Working. During some of the dialogue, Abildiz points a finger at AC in this regards and he, in turn, points it at his SEER (who throws it right back at him!).

Anyway, AC exalts the Role of Woman in his writings, states that nothing can be accomplished without Woman and yet seemed incapable of maintaining relationships along these lines without predestination for a crash and burn.

I am especially interested in the surviving DIARIES of his Scarlet Women, esp. Leah Hirsig. The Abbey is quite cast in a dark light via lurid and sensationalistic accounts in Bios but none of that comes through in Frater Progradior's Magickal Record. He's sick-and AC takes care of him and tucks him into bed! He goes swimming with Leah and AC, watches Leah's child, spaces his Magickal Reitrement nicely with practical work around the Abbey, walks, tea etc.

Is there available a record of Leah's work and recollections from those days? Other of the Scarlet Women?

And do some of the Scarlet Women on this site feel that AC missed the boat a bit in his workings with women and that the Role of the Scarlet Woman is being better realized in Present Thelema?

93, Both Ladies & Gents!

Kyle


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starla
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21/10/2006 8:20 pm  

I don't think anyone has published a book on AC's scarlet women. Leah Hirsig's diaries are available, dealers offer them from time to time, I've read 'em, you know when you read a book and there's a phrase, a sentence you'll never forget, well, in Leah's diaries there's nothing I remember. Harsh but true.
AC would have been nobody without his scarlet women, but who first called him a Beast?


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 Anonymous
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21/10/2006 11:27 pm  
"kidneyhawk" wrote:
Anyway, AC exalts the Role of Woman in his writings, states that nothing can be accomplished without Woman and yet seemed incapable of maintaining relationships along these lines without predestination for a crash and burn.

Regarding this, I don't think Beast and Scarlet Woman relationships are supposed to last indeffinately, due to the initiatic element of such relationships. If the one playing the role of the Beast requires a particular type of Scarlet Woman for a particular Ordeal / Initiation, once that Initiation is obtained, he needs to move on in order to continue to develop. This would obviously apply to the Scarlet Woman equally.

For example, Crowley had The Camel at some stage or other. Surely such a creature could only be useful for specific initiations, and would be completely inappropriate in others. So once she had served her purpose he simply had to move on, and find a scarlet woman of a totally different type, he simply couldn't spend the rest of his life screwing camels.

Viewed this way, the line in Liber Al "Lover, if thou wilt, depart!" takes on a slighly deeper importance, rather than simply urging people to be groovy and give her the boot when she starts to become a nuicance. πŸ˜›


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kidneyhawk
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22/10/2006 2:01 am  

Nashimiron-

93! Yes, I agree with your assessment, at least with deference to AC's approach. He did, indeed, state that the role of "Scarlet Woman" seemed to be an "Office" but the Beast (i.e. HIMSELF) seemed to be particular PERSON ("Mono-Man and the Musical Mistresses"). Nema, as a Priestess of Maat, takes a similar approach in one of her essays with regards to the role of the Male and what HE offers to the workings of the Female Magician. And, of course, when the day is done, Do What Thou Wilt IS the Whole of the Law! And we may have entered some sticky territory if we venture beyond that and decide to delineate how relationships (magickal, sexual and otherwise) "ought" to be defined for anyone other than ourselves.

My interest was in how Modern and Post-Crowleyan Thelemites have chosen to see themselves in this Mythic Dynamic. I know individuals whose partners function (an awful word, sorry) as both Wife or Husband or Partner or Whatever AND as Magickal Partner, without the "temp" status. As fun as it is to assign totemic identities to ourselves and others, I think "totemizing" can get bigger than two dimensional definition. Spare's art depicts this as does Hermann Hesse's Steppenwolf where Mr. Harry Haller can't sit in eternal comfort that his being is simply part-man and part-wolf. And then the "roles" spiral out-we all become something to each other in magickal workings of various natures-I'm aware of Scarlet Women relationships where intercourse is not involved but the the psycho-sexual dynamic IS to achieve a given end...

But this opens up ALL the relationships where energies enhance energies-I may be magickally at work with a friend and we become well-defined as the Horse and Wolf-a dual working which is accomplished by the dual energies. The Scarlet Woman-Beast relationship seems to imply a definite sexual alchemy, even if its realized on a more subtle plane, however. But again-what are the "rules of the game?" It may very well be that a "Beast" (if we allow that "Title" to be applied outside of AC) can move within a comlicated dynamic of multiple Scarlet Women in multiple ways over a short period of time-and a given Scarlet Woman may metamorph in her (ahem) "totemic Function."

So-do Modern Thelemite Women feel at ease as "Scarlet Women" whose function as such is to compliment the Battery of Babalon and the Beast-is every man a "Beast" in his own right and to be viewed as such by the Scarlet Women?

I'm not expressing so much of an opinion here as asking some questions about the whole "set-up." It seems to lend itself to opening up very rapidly into Every Man and Every Woman Is A Star and are to simply Do Their Will.

Starla-!

I'm going to take your word for it that Hirsig's Diaries are a bore-BUT-I'm still going to try and find them (I think I may actually have a transcript of these on a disk!). I AM really interested in the perspectives of the women (and the men, also) with whom Crowley worked his Magick...as they were all, by right, Stars in and of themselves and had as their right and pursuit, their own Great Work, which exceeded being "parts played" in the Drama of AC's life. Yes, there was a lot of crash and burning going on-but I maintain (perhaps in my general optimism) that such is a testament to things getting screwed up along the way and not that a wake of broken people was the Path which Thelema beckoned them towards.

93!

Kyle


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lashtal
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22/10/2006 2:55 am  
"kidneyhawk" wrote:
I'm going to take your word for it that Hirsig's Diaries are a bore-BUT-I'm still going to try and find them (I think I may actually have a transcript of these on a disk!).

http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/module-subjects-viewpage-pageid-87.phtm l"> http://www.lashtal.com/nuke/module-subjects-viewpage-pageid-87.phtml

It's desperately in need of a decent proof-read, though...

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 Anonymous
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22/10/2006 5:37 am  

Starla wrote:

and there's a phrase, a sentence you'll never forget, well, in Leah's diaries there's nothing I remember. Harsh but true.

Well, here's one from the Hirsig diary that Paul linked to that I might not remember tomorrow, but it made me laugh tonight:

"E Mar 4
Grass. Even a fellow with a keen sense of humor cannot appreciate the sense of humor in the fellow under grass."


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kidneyhawk
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22/10/2006 6:58 am  

It's desperately in need of a decent proof-read, though...

LOL-My own (ahem) "Scarlet Woman" pointed this link out to me as soon as I posted my inquiry!

nobody without his scarlet women

Apparently, neither am I! πŸ˜†

93!

Kyle


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starla
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22/10/2006 9:32 am  

It's been years since I read Leah's diary and even then I've only seen the sections on this site, late 1923 throughout 1924. Of course there interesting, I just have a bad memory!
No doubt you've read the Jane Wolfe biography Red Flame 10 and 11. She wasn't one AC's scarlet women but these books really brought out the Cefalu period as a living experience.


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 Anonymous
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22/10/2006 10:26 pm  

I'm not aware of any other surving magickal diaries/records of any other of Crowley's SW. It is rather unfortunate. I've found Hirsig's diaries to be more of a guide on what not to do πŸ™„ If you've ever seen "Requiem for a Dream" it kind of has that same feel.
I do strongly feel the Scarlet Women image and archetype is still rather quite new and Crowley just managed to scratch the surface and interpreted the meaning based on his own experiences. (He was born in the Old Aeon after all.)
By asking these questions that kidneyhawk raised, (and even if we do not arrive at a concrete answer), it still serves as a method to free ourselves from Crowley's somewhat limited outlook, even though his outlook was still extremely radical during his time. That is not the case today. I think the archetypes of the New Aeon evolve as we evolve with it. Crowley just lit the spark (a mighty spark at that!)

Paul, I came across scans of Alostrael's actual diary a couple years ago on the web. I have them on my site and would be happy to send them to you for your Gallery. (Be warned, it's a hefty 60+megs)

P.S. If my memory is correct, I believe it was Crowley's mother who first called him the Beast.
Paging Dr. Freud! 😯


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 Anonymous
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22/10/2006 10:48 pm  
"kidneyhawk" wrote:
we may have entered some sticky territory

ooer. 😯

I would agree with Subrosa that the Scarlet Woman role is quite a new one (erm, despite being the oldest profession in the world πŸ˜• ).

Actually, maybe it's more like something we've forgotten about and needs to be re-awakened. I'm sure there are enough historical sources to provide a budding scholar with a descent field to erm, burry himself in.


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kidneyhawk
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22/10/2006 10:54 pm  

I do strongly feel the Scarlet Women image and archetype is still rather quite new and Crowley just managed to scratch the surface and interpreted the meaning based on his own experiences. (He was born in the Old Aeon after all.)
By asking these questions that kidneyhawk raised, (and even if we do not arrive at a concrete answer), it still serves as a method to free ourselves from Crowley's somewhat limited outlook, even though his outlook was still extremely radical during his time. That is not the case today. I think the archetypes of the New Aeon evolve as we evolve with it. Crowley just lit the spark (a mighty spark at that!)

Long quote to highlight but I LOVED it!

Especially:

the archetypes of the New Aeon evolve as we evolve with it.

I think this is the basic push/urge/impulse behind a lot of the criticism aimed at perceived Thelemites who freeze-frame the bullet at the periphery of the Crowleyan Corpus and regard the Ocean of Space Beyond (Body of Ultra Goddess NUIT) as icy waters into which they'd rather dip a tentative toe.

I hear the music of TOOL rising at the Borderland Atmosphere:

"Learn to swim, learn to swim..."

It seems to me, via my own limited perception, that Thelemties ARE jumping into the water and pushing through Gateways which Crowley may have cracked but did not make it through himself.

Leah wrote in her Magickal Record:

"My opinion is that one does not really get a shot at one's complexes until one has managed to eliminate the influences of convention."

I think that can certainly include the Conventions of "Crowleyanity."

93s!

Kyle


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kidneyhawk
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22/10/2006 10:58 pm  

SubRosa-

PS-thanks for the link! πŸ™‚


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 Anonymous
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22/10/2006 11:53 pm  
"nashimiron" wrote:
I would agree with Subrosa that the Scarlet Woman role is quite a new one (erm, despite being the oldest profession in the world πŸ˜• ).

Contrary to popular belief, the oldest profession belongs to the politician. πŸ™‚ Jehovah is the master of the spin and Lucifer of course is the ignoble "flip-flopper". 😈


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 Anonymous
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23/10/2006 12:27 am  
"kidneyhawk" wrote:
I think this is the basic push/urge/impulse behind a lot of the criticism aimed at perceived Thelemites who freeze-frame the bullet at the periphery of the Crowleyan Corpus and regard the Ocean of Space Beyond (Body of Ultra Goddess NUIT) as icy waters into which they'd rather dip a tentative toe.

I hear the music of TOOL rising at the Borderland Atmosphere:

"Learn to swim, learn to swim..."

It seems to me, via my own limited perception, that Thelemties ARE jumping into the water and pushing through Gateways which Crowley may have cracked but did not make it through himself.

PostPosted: Oct 22, 2006 - 02:54 PM
Quote: β€Ί Select β€Ίβ€Ή Expand

I do strongly feel the Scarlet Women image and archetype is still rather quite new and Crowley just managed to scratch the surface and interpreted the meaning based on his own experiences. (He was born in the Old Aeon after all.)
By asking these questions that kidneyhawk raised, (and even if we do not arrive at a concrete answer), it still serves as a method to free ourselves from Crowley's somewhat limited outlook, even though his outlook was still extremely radical during his time. That is not the case today. I think the archetypes of the New Aeon evolve as we evolve with it. Crowley just lit the spark (a mighty spark at that!)

Long quote to highlight but I LOVED it!

Especially:

Quote: β€Ί Select β€Ίβ€Ή Expand

the archetypes of the New Aeon evolve as we evolve with it.

I think this is the basic push/urge/impulse behind a lot of the criticism aimed at perceived Thelemites who freeze-frame the bullet at the periphery of the Crowleyan Corpus and regard the Ocean of Space Beyond (Body of Ultra Goddess NUIT) as icy waters into which they'd rather dip a tentative toe.

I hear the music of TOOL rising at the Borderland Atmosphere:

"Learn to swim, learn to swim..."

It seems to me, via my own limited perception, that Thelemties ARE jumping into the water and pushing through Gateways which Crowley may have cracked but did not make it through himself.

Leah wrote in her Magickal Record:

"My opinion is that one does not really get a shot at one's complexes until one has managed to eliminate the influences of convention."

I think that can certainly include the Conventions of "Crowleyanity."

Yes, last time I checked it was Do what thou wilt, not Do what Crowley Wills. 😈
But you have to start somewhere.

Nice Tool analogy, btw. πŸ˜‰


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 Anonymous
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23/10/2006 12:43 am  

I think many readers would agree that Thelema as Crowley left it is phallocentric -- Solar Phallic to be accurate.

One of the contributions of Aossic Aiwass/Kenneth Grant in the Typhonian model is the emphasis on the Lunar and Feminine aspect.

IMO we need both for balance, and in balance. The Scarlet Woman, after all, is riding the Beast! She is directing the Current.

So, what do you think the chances are of this being reflected in the hierarchy of established Thelemic Orders? We've had Hymenaeus Alpha and Beta -- do you think there's a chance for the successor to be a Woman -- Hymenaeus Ruptura as OHO, maybe?

We in the Untidy States don't seem to be ready just yet for a female president, but some European countries, being after all more civilized, have had Women wielding the Sword. Does the congregation think Thelema is ready for that?

nick the naughty


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 Anonymous
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23/10/2006 1:42 am  
"papanick" wrote:
We in the Untidy States don't seem to be ready just yet for a female president, but some European countries, being after all more civilized, have had Women wielding the Sword. Does the congregation think Thelema is ready for that?

Gaah! margaret Thatcher! 😑

Let us never speak of this matter again! For the sake of humanity, send them back to the kitchens!


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 Anonymous
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23/10/2006 4:01 pm  

I found Leah Hirsig's diary very moving.
Winter, Paris. 1920s. Poverty. Loneliness.
Personal struggles of a real woman, trying to keep body, mind and soul together in the most terrible of conditions. And somehow trying to be authentically magically strong, even though she had lost her lover and was semi-homeless, cold all the time. She could often neither eat nor manage to pay to heat her tiny room. Getting a hideous job as a restaurant kitchen skivvy. By night, at the club, selling dances (and sex?) to lecherous men. Hating it, and trying not to break down. Becoming homeless. Freezing cold.

Where was Crowley at this time? Don't get me started.

Christina


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kidneyhawk
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23/10/2006 4:25 pm  

I just finished reading Hirsig's diaries as posted on Lashtal and had mixed feelings about them-there WERE some great entries worth quoting-and I think some real examples of Leah on her own reaching for her Inner Light with some serious strength...ESP. when she "chides" herself and then begins her Diary anew, renewing her "vows," as it were and holding to the Great Work.

Comparing both Leah and Frank Bennett, they both begin their Diaries with a constant devotion to the Guru, the Beast 666-and as they move along there is a turning into themselves-I don't have my books with me to cite specifics but I found it very interesting that at the end of Bennett's Diary, Crowley offers his "Solar Phallic" commentary and then Bennett (in the Light of his own Illumination) writes a "Postscript" and states that AC doesn't understand, that he is missing the boat and is WRONG. I believe this quote (which I'll try to dig up later) would fit well into the Will Under Love thread.

I am VERY VERY curious at this point if there might be further Diaries from Leah which will turn up AFTER the whole thing burned up and she returned to teaching. I would be very interested to know if she continued her Mystical Path on her own after the final seperation from AC (not the Abbey-but her leaving his life altogether).

It is very interesting and very inspiring to me to read such Diaries...to get a peek into how people's hearts and heads were really working through the tirals that inevitably followed the initial sublime vision of the Great Work.

I just know Leah's tale ends with more than the word "cognac" and I'm hoping to discover a bit of what comes next!

Kyle


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 Anonymous
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23/10/2006 4:36 pm  

Where was Crowley at this time? Don't get me started.

Christina

Oh... feel free to "get started"! I'll back ya! πŸ˜†

Kym


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lashtal
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23/10/2006 5:12 pm  

Christina,

"Treadwells" wrote:
I found Leah Hirsig's diary very moving [...] Where was Crowley at this time? Don't get me started.

Well said! Crowley's treatment of Leah demonstrates his self-centredness at its very worst.

I think most people leave his biographies with a variety of responses, but one of the most common must be: "Why was he so unbelievably unpleasant to those that loved him?"

This, of course, applies to many of his "students" but it's all the more poignant with Leah because she tolerated so much unpleasantness for so long.

At least she lived on into the 70s, with The Beast and Cefalu just unpleasant memories...

There is most definitely a book to be written about the influence of Crowley on his Scarlet Women. Rose, for example, seems to have been a very strong personality, irretrievably broken as a result of her relationship with the man.

We tend to see the Scarlet Women as simple walk-on characters in the life of Crowley, performing cameos that help us to interpret his mind-state at the time - your email reminds us that they were always more than that, theirs were supporting roles of great significance, often tinged with the darkest tragedy.

Thanks, Christina.

Paul

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kidneyhawk
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23/10/2006 6:58 pm  

Crowley's treatment of Leah demonstrates his self-centredness at its very worst.

...and wasn't she the one in attendence when AC supposedly attained the Grade of Ipsissimus?


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lashtal
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23/10/2006 7:39 pm  

Exactly...

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 Anonymous
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24/10/2006 3:30 pm  

I'm hoping there are more diary's of hers out there that someone could dig up. Since she was not forbidden to speak about the Ippissimus initiation maybe she wrote about it at some point. (Not likely, but one can only hope) We all can ASSume (pun intended) what he did, butt (pun again) WHY is the question? Really, why would such an act accompany the highest initiation possible?


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 Anonymous
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24/10/2006 5:30 pm  
"N.O.X" wrote:
Really, why would such an act accompany the highest initiation possible?

Precisley because it was the lowest/foulest act he could think of, something about not being able to experience the highest until you experience the lowest. Its in the Confessions I think.

Maybe the 'body of god' was quite the delicacy back in those days, god of course is dog backwards, and we all know what dogs do, or what they do-do.


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kidneyhawk
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24/10/2006 6:08 pm  

I find it interesting that afterwards all AC seems to do is sleep, get sick, lay around and send other people on errands. At the Abbey he sends a sick Leah out into the rain to gather his post, even when its evident that she's not feeling so hot.

For some time I've wanted to do a print/portrait of AC-I just began sketching it out and funny, it's turned into a print of Leah, rather split between the two sides of AC which went into her...and her own Illumination flashing for a brief but powerful moment, her Initiator being, not the Beast, but her own Angel...

it was the lowest/foulest act he could think of, something about not being able to experience the highest until you experience the lowest

Not so sure about this. AC was the man who wrote that "the Eye of Horus is superior to the Mouth of Isis"-I wouldn't imagine that he was pushing the limits of the "foul" with regards to his own predilections...


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the_real_simon_iff
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31/10/2006 3:23 pm  
"N.O.X" wrote:
I'm hoping there are more diary's of hers out there that someone could dig up.

93!

Shuffling through my archives I just found some more of Alostrael's Diaries, which I personally found a lot more interesting - and even more heartbreaking. I think her life really deserves some attention - there is a lot to learn from. Maybe someday a biography project will get started. I sent the PDFs to Paul so he can put them in the Downloads section if it deems him right.

Love=Law
Lutz


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lashtal
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31/10/2006 10:47 pm  

Not for the first time, we all have good reason to be grateful to Lutz...

The three Diaries he has made available to Members can be downloaded from LAShTAL.COM in Acrobat Reader (PDF) format from the Downloads menu option. They're in the Texts category.

Thank you, Lutz.

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kidneyhawk
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01/11/2006 12:24 am  

Indeed. A thousand thanks! πŸ™‚ Just printed out all 200 + pages and will be reading them shortly. This "new" information (and it's a LOT more than we had to start with) may add some interesting angles to the whole discussion regarding Leah Hirsig and the Scarlet Woman theme in general.


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 Anonymous
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01/11/2006 1:02 pm  

93

Yes, thank you very much Lutz. You have just about every piece of literature a thelemite would ever need. Thanks for sharing with us.

93 93/93


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Proteus
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02/11/2006 2:37 am  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

why would such an act accompany the highest initiation possible?

Union with one's HGA requires annihilation of the ego. I consider this ultimate act as the final asana that cannot be taught that the yogi/yogini must discover for him/herself. It could vary from individual to individual - & that strangely.

John

Love is the Law, love under will.


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 Anonymous
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02/11/2006 7:05 am  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
Let us not forget that these Scarlet Women chose to ride the AC Beast. I for one am grateful to all my Scarlet Mothers and their diaries for the unwritten lesson "seek the nature of the Beast before riding Him otherwise the result could be madness!"
I personally would hate to be seen as a victim of a man looking for a foothold in the new Aeon. Instead I would hope the world would see that I sacrificed my psychic wellbeing to explore new frontiers in perceiving the potential for society - let us lift our cups and drink plenty to the sacredness of our Scarlet Women! In a time when they were expected to marry and be home tending children then pretending sex was only as necessary as going to the doctor, all of the women who stepped into AC's life walked with courage.

Thanks for the diary downloads

Love is the Law, love under wil.
SWAbyss


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 Anonymous
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02/11/2006 7:59 pm  

93 all,
I'm about halfway through Leah's diaries, and I'm loving them.

"My opinion is that oΒ­ne does not really get a shot at oΒ­ne's complexes until oΒ­ne has managed to eliminate the influences of convention."

That's genius.

There was a bit when I actually laughed out loud, picturing a rather large african woman beating the hell out of Crowley in my head.

93 93/93


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kidneyhawk
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02/11/2006 10:06 pm  

93, Ms. 93!

I thought that quote from Leah was brilliant, too-in fact, maybe Paul could put it in the line-up for the "Random Quote" box!

To date, I haven't read the Diairies beyond what was originally offered on the site but have the massive stack of papers and plan on getting to them as soon as time allows! For some reason, Ms. Hirsig fascinates me...she's always appeared with the "others" as (ahem) the "Monkey" (and you HAD to laugh when she clapped her hands for joy at "666" eating two bananas!). As much as she was one of the figures playing a role in the Big Drama of AC's Life, he, too, was the Beast who played a role in hers...and I think she touched on some incoming forces that were a bit lost on the Beast himself. I don't believe Crowley (Genius, Prophet, Gate-Breaker) WAS the Ipsissimus he thought himself to be...and I think Leah, for the crash and burn of the Grand Cefalu Vision, was more than AC's "Monkey." She had some things moving through herself that AC was blind to. It's all said and done and sad and intriguing-but I don't think her Work as a Scarlet Woman should be lost or over-looked.

You may find it also worthy of a smile that in the upcoming (and past printed) Outside The Circles Of Time by Grant, he writes (a bit radically!):

"...the emergence of woman as a being in her own right, free and potent to control her own destiny, with the discomforting hint that she may surpass the male in knowledge and power, is paving the way for the advent of that Aeon wherein she will function as a gateway through which cosmic influences will be invoked."

Shifting over to some of the comments on the Tao-9 Degrees Thread, I must say that ultimately the "twin terminal" forces of sexed-human forms are gearing up to go beyond (not necessarily in a Genesis P'Orridge sense!) both within the individual human unit and in "couplings" of various degrees and natures i.e considering the "formulae," I tend to see within myself both Beast, Babalon and the "Monster" born of their fusion (itself a thing capable of "terminalizing" and pushing further beyond). I think Crowley indicates this when he observes in his Introduction to AL "the strange modifications of the reproductive instinct with a tendency to become bi-sexual or epicene."

Every Man and Every Woman Is A Star-but the Stars Themselves are changing-! I think this Transformative aspect of Magick also fuels (beyond the socio-political apsects of Thelemic Culture) the Liberty which emerges with the Life, Light and Life!

All due Love, Hate, Respect for the Priest of the Princes-but I see him more and more (with admiration and a clearer vision of his limitations) as the Handmaiden for a Child who is now cradled in the arms of Mater Triumphans and being nourished from an energy too vast for Words.

93-93-93!

Kyle


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lashtal
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02/11/2006 11:37 pm  
"kidneyhawk" wrote:
I thought that quote from Leah was brilliant, too-in fact, maybe Paul could put it in the line-up for the "Random Quote" box!

Done...

And I'll take this opportunity to express my deep gratitude to the_real_simon_iff - and one other - for making available some extraordinarily interesting material relating to Leah Hirsig.

Paul
Owner & Editor
LAShTAL.COM

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
02/11/2006 11:37 pm  

kidneyhawk wrote:

All due Love, Hate, Respect for the Priest of the Princes-but I see him more and more (with admiration and a clearer vision of his limitations) as the Handmaiden for a Child who is now cradled in the arms of Mater Triumphans and being nourished from an energy too vast for Words.

Well put! & I concur.

In assessing the value of the roles of Scarlet Woman and Priest, I think it should not be overlooked that, more often than not, the Woman was the one experiencing the Vision and channelling the Voice, and Crowley's role was that of questioner and scribe. Both are needed for the formula to succeed, but I wonder if Crowley truly appreciated the part that his Scarlet Women played in individual workings and his Work overall? From the point of view of his own initiation he was, perhaps, justified in viewing them as totemic images such as Ape, Monkey, Camel, etc., but to the rest of us they should be more than caricatures of a particular sacred animal!

It does seem to be true that many women are capable of acting as an Oracle, whereas only a minority of men are consistently capable of that. There are psychophysical reasons for that, of course: different hormones and a different programming language of the biocomputer. In particular "edgy" women seem to possess the oracular talent, those whose "grasp on reality" is a bit tenuous. Small wonder, then, that the Beast's relationship with his Scarlet Women was tumultuous at times!

nick


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frater_cug
(@frater_cug)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 73
18/11/2006 5:57 am  

I just ran across this site about Leila Waddell, and thought it fit in with this thread.

http://www.leilawaddell.com


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