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Colin Wilson's investigation into parapsychology.  

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dom
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21/11/2020 11:39 am  

Colin risked ridicule as he was one of the few academics to make a stand and be publicly open-minded about the subject that "science" fears and demonizes namely parapsychology.  A lot of his work is dedicated to rational and open-minded studies of the strange and irrational whether it be Geller, ESP phenomena, UFO's and telekinesis and so on.   

This topic was modified 2 days ago 3 times by dom

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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21/11/2020 3:50 pm  

Colin Wilson was never anything resembling an "academic" or a "scientist". He was indeed a popular and sometimes best-selling author, but he had no formal education past the age of 16. He never held any university appointment that i'm aware of. He published zero empirical studies on psychic phenomena.

An actual example of what you wish Wilson was might be Dr JB Rhine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Banks_Rhine

Sadly, few/none of Rhine's studies and experiments have proved to be replicable, including sometimes by Rhine himself. The poor reputation of parapsychology among scientists and academics may be due to the repeated failure of more than a century of studies to find any phenomena demanding further investigation.

 


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Horemakhet
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21/11/2020 4:57 pm  

Well that settles it then! Thank the gods that we have such a scholar here to set us all straight.


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ignant666
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21/11/2020 5:41 pm  

Doesn't actually require much "scholarship" to know these things.

Also, @horemakhet, what is your problem with the recent passive-aggressive attacks on me?

If you have a bone to pick with me, step up and state your case. Not that you will, being a coward.

Despise also all cowards; professional soldiers who dare not fight, but play; all fools despise!
But the keen and the proud, the royal and the lofty; ye are brothers!
As brothers fight ye!
There is no law beyond Do what thou wilt. [AL, III: 57-60]

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dom
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21/11/2020 6:43 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

The poor reputation of parapsychology among scientists and academics may be due to the repeated failure of more than a century of studies to find any phenomena demanding further investigation.

 

I see so you're dismissing it form your armchair?  

 

Mind you, you were never one for e.g. meditation were you? 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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21/11/2020 6:53 pm  
Posted by: @dom

so you're dismissing it form your armchair?  

No armchair needed.

I'm saying that no published, and replicable, study has ever managed to demonstrate any psychic or parapsychological phenomenon. Please let me know if i'm wrong.

Posted by: @dom

you were never one for e.g. meditation were you? 

Curious where you got this idea? It is true that i only put a few decades into such things.

 


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djedi
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21/11/2020 8:34 pm  

Starting when I was just a lowly undergraduate and carrying on throughout my entire career in physics, friends and I devised little psyops we would pull on people to convince them that I was a John von Neumann level, nigh omniscient genius.

Someone who didn't know me very well would, for whatever reason, be brought into a dorm or office where I and my secret confederates would all just so happen to be. One would organically bring up how smart I was, that I had total recall and could calculate math problems faster than computers, then another "shill" would deny that anyone could be that intelligent. So another would exhort me to prove it to the naysayer while plucking an ostensibly random book, always The Brothers Karamazov, off a shelf and flipping to a just as random page, 381. I would shake my head and act modestly, saying, "No, not in front of so-and-so."

Anyway, they would pretend to wear me down and I would twiddle my thumbs for a second with eyes closed, before perfectly reciting the contents of that page and a little after (which I, of course, had memorized beforehand) like it was all off the top of my head. Then they'd take turns "making up" math problems with ridiculous figures and operations, and I would act as though I were mentally calculating the answers for a second before prattling them all off. Someone would always stand next to the mark with a calculator and an awed expression.

Once the naysayer pretended to be persuaded, the mark was well and truly convinced.

Being a devotee not only to the great hypnotherapists but also mentalists and stage hypnotists, I alone would then campaign for weeks and months trying to indirectly convince these individuals, who already thought me freakishly smart, that I was accidentally reading their minds and performing other psychic feats using the usual little tricks with muscle reading and the ideomotor effect. It was an awful lot of fun.


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ignant666
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21/11/2020 8:56 pm  

@djedi- Huh. If true, this anecdote indicates you were very wise to quit physics.

No one ever said "Wow, pretty impressive. Now i'll pick a page- how about p. 387?"

And you claim to have done this for at least 7 years (undergrad + some grad school), without anyone getting hip? I am afraid i am going to have to cry bullshit on this anecdote, for two reasons:

1) I can't imagine you could find enough collaborators to pull this off for that long, in two different programs, without someone thinking it was funnier to rat you out than to play along;

2) This obvious trick never would have flown for even a week, in either my law school, or criminology grad school (neither particularly distinguished or elite programs), and so can't be true of even a grade D physics program. Or are you saying lawyers and criminologists are that much smarter than physicists?


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Shiva
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21/11/2020 9:09 pm  

Colon Wilson (is he #1 or #3?) gets another thread to reinforce his godhead?

Posted by: @ignant666

Colin Wilson was never anything resembling an "academic" or a "scientist".

Wait an Aeon!  I just saw this movie with exactly the same dialogue. Is Colon to be deified or dungeoned? That is not the question. The question is ... Why is the deck stacked with multiple, self-replicating, Aces of Wilson?

Posted by: @ignant666

I'm saying that no published, and replicable, study has ever managed to demonstrate any psychic or parapsychological phenomenon. Please let me know if i'm wrong.

I believe a breakthrough occurred in Kirlian photography. The "aura" is essentially "metaphysical" or "para-something" (except to people who can see). I don't know that it made it into the peer-reviewed journals, but since anyone can replicate it by their own efforts, and everyone can see the pictures, I submit this little insert. Note: Only the etheric aura is captured. The rest of the "aura" is still para.

 


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ignant666
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21/11/2020 9:34 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Kirlian photography

Is certainly "real". As you say, such photos are easily produced.

But there is no evidence that Kirlian photos demonstrate any parapsychological phenomenon, and a good deal of evidence that such photos vary with well-explained factors like moisture, type of film/photo paper, degree of pressure on the photo plate, etc.


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djedi
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21/11/2020 9:37 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

No one ever said "Wow, pretty impressive. Now i'll pick a page- how about p. 387?"

I can see why you would imagine yourself doing such a thing in the victim's place, but no, they didn't.

Posted by: @ignant666

I can't imagine you could find enough collaborators to pull this off for that long, in two different programs, without someone thinking it was funnier to rat you out than to play along;

Not just collaborators, little buddy, my friends. If life has led you to think people you call friends will "rat you out" on a lark, then you have my deepest commiseration.

Posted by: @ignant666

This obvious trick never would have flown for even a week, in either my law school, or criminology grad school

Well, I would say, "Prove it!" but I know the soft sciences have trouble with that sort of thing.

Posted by: @ignant666

Or are you saying lawyers and criminologists are that much smarter than physicists?

I will not for a moment deny that lawyers and criminologists can more easily recognize chicanery and bamboozlement, as such a skill surely must be developed in the gay bars and drug dens they are so well-known to frequent.


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ignant666
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21/11/2020 9:45 pm  
Posted by: @djedi

the gay bars and drug dens they are so well-known to frequent.

When you're right, you're right, son. I have indeed spent my fair share of time in gay bars, and of course in "drug dens". In both cases, they're a lot of fun, and in both cases, i got paid a good salary out of your taxes to do so.

But what you are saying is that your fellow students in physics were so gullible that your "friends" were able to convince them you were a "von Neumann level... genius" with this simple prank? Right?

In other words, you are saying your fellow PhD graduate students in physics were as dumb a bunch of rubes as ever fell off a turnip truck, and had zero critical thinking ability? Or is there some part of this i'm missing?

 


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djedi
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21/11/2020 9:55 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

your fellow PhD graduate students in physics were as dumb a bunch of rubes as ever fell off a turnip truck

Compared to me? Yes.

(I've missed these exchanges of ours, ignant. I truly have.)


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ignant666
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21/11/2020 10:06 pm  
Posted by: @djedi

Compared to me? Yes.

Golly. Your humility is impressive.

No wonder you quit, since you were so much smarter than everyone else. You've posted enough i know that you're a reasonably intelligent person, and thus can't possibly imagine this to be true.

This story is bullshit, either bullshit you're telling us, or, more likely, bullshit you've been telling yourself to justify not finishing your PhD.


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Shiva
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21/11/2020 11:02 pm  

Oh, goddess of goodness, and her forty-2 attendants.

I believe I have some real work to do ... while Colon Wilson gets set aside for strife in the aisles.

 


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dom
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22/11/2020 2:20 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

Sadly, few/none of Rhine's studies and experiments have proved to be replicable, including sometimes by Rhine himself. The poor reputation of parapsychology among scientists and academics may be due to the repeated failure of more than a century of studies to find any phenomena demanding further investigation.

 

I suppose it's difficult to get into the alpha wave state when you have to prove something to cynical stuffy types. 

Are you saying that your materialist-economist dad didn't store his books properly on his bookcase shelves hence the book-popping activity?

Maybe the Russian and American secret police were crazy to fund such research. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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22/11/2020 2:50 am  

My dad, despite his considerable personal experience of phenomena that many are eager to label "psychic" or "spiritual", did not believe that there are such things as "poltergeists", or "ghosts", or "psychic phenomena".

He believed that books tended, for unknown reasons, to pop out of shelves around certain people in the family, who also tended to see stuff that was not actually there. He did not think this tendency of books to come off shelves, or the tendency to see apparitions wandering about the place, were important enough things to bother with, unlike, say, the balance of payments, or other economics stuff, that he liked doing work with.

Folks who do think such things are important enough, or "real" enough, to bother with at their day jobs have to come up with the same dreary standards of evidence that we require before we take aspirin, or get on airplanes: they have to come up with stuff that works.

And no one has, despite roughly 170 years of effort at the scientific exploration of such phenomena. If one wants to go by the budgets of various "secret police" as metrics of the validity of such things, one would be forced to admit that no one has spent a penny on such tosh since the height of the Cold War.

The simple fact is, no one has ever, despite huge efforts for almost 200 years, demonstrated the slightest evidence that there is any reality whatever to any psychic phenomenon, eg, ESP, remote viewing, divination, etc etc. Some of these things were open questions in AC's day; none are now.

This is where i always said i joined Los' views: AC believed lots of stuff that is now known to be certainly false.

The thing is, that stuff doesn't matter, and AC's work remains valid, because of his insistence that we should not believe him, or believe in him, but only believe what we could empirically prove, by following his "How To" books.


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Shiva
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22/11/2020 4:17 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

AC's work remains valid, because of his insistence that we should not believe him, or believe in him, but only believe what we could empirically prove, by following his "How To" books.

This is why, when buglers toot, they are asked, Do you do the Work?  They usually blow that off with inadequacies, or ignore it altogether.

 


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djedi
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22/11/2020 5:39 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

Your humility is impressive.

My humility has always been a point of pride.

Posted by: @dom

I suppose it's difficult to get into the alpha wave state when you have to prove something to cynical stuffy types. 

Dom, indulge my curiosity. In the OP you put the word science in scare quotes, and in the above quote and other places you express indignation for the so-called "cynical, stuffy types" which I assume to mean those who approach the question of science's ability to describe reality according to the assumptions of Naturalism.

And yet, though having rejected those assumptions (again, I assume), you paradoxically seem to give a shit about what the scientific method has to say on your pet subjects.

So, my question is, just what is your philosophy of science? Are you a coherentist? Are a few tricky ad hocs all magic's acceptance is missing?

You've expressed disdain for my own adherence to Feyerabend's ideas on the subject.


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Shiva
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22/11/2020 8:31 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

But there is no evidence that Kirlian photos demonstrate any parapsychological phenomenon, and a good deal of evidence that such photos vary with well-explained factors like moisture, type of film/photo paper, degree of pressure on the photo plate, etc

I tried to use an "iffy" (not Ippy) approach to my suggestion. Let us take, for example, Los 8=3, who said (here on LAShTAL), "There is no such thing as an aura." This is a common belief. So I posted Kirlian pictures for him to see. He ignored my entry.

I would still suggest that this is (borderline) evidence of (at least) metaphysical veracity.

As to the matter of variances in Kirlian methodology, the same may be said of x-ray technology. Time, voltage, current, distance, focus. I had to learn how to set the machine(s) to an acceptable standard .... that would not alter the patient's physical configuration (burns) or cause *DNA modification. 

I also trained under a German doctor who was using Kirlian photography for medical diagnosis, and then treating with Voll Electro-acupuncture. Just like the x-ray machine(s), he had the Kirlian tech down to a repeatable, stable standard. (Note: He didn't use flashy color stuff. One put both hands, then their paired feet, on a 10x14" B&W photo paper plate - it gave shades of gray. The shades of gray showed physical problems off the ends of the fingers and toes).

So I've just said a lot about stuff that a lot of (most?) people would consider metaphysical, which is the same as paranormal and all those other "p" words. Do you still wish to bar my entry into The Scientific Hall of Fame? If so, I'll go quietly.

image

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Shiva
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22/11/2020 8:47 am  
Posted by: @djedi

You've expressed disdain for my own adherence

You must look at it differently. You are trying to evoke an explanation for duality in thought and written word. You are seeking to expose inconsistency. I, myself, have been inconsistent on a few occasions. Quit you the search an pay heed to the situation.

{I will now do a masquerade as an objective exposition]

I Am Me.
Everything else is downhill.
I may shift around, but I don't roll downhill.
Things that roll downhill are shit, idiots, nut-jobs, wackos, and stuffy turds.
I reserve the right to shift around, but only if it's for a good reason.
You must give me the reason before I can tell if it's good.
I may just ignore your reason, or say WTF?

What happened to Col. Wilson, and what was this all about in the first place?

Posted by: @dom

Colin risked ridicule as he was one of the few academics to make a stand and be publicly open-minded about the subject that "science" fears and demonizes namely parapsychology.

Oh, that.

 


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dom
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22/11/2020 9:10 am  

@djedi

Science is political i.e. it's about not losing one's pension and toeing the line to get funding hence the cowardly narrow mindedness of those scientists who gang up on the maverick.  That's why I put the word in apostrophes because such behaviour is not scientific it just poses as "science".

@Ignant 

 

Yes you're an open-minded bigot but at the same time I sympathise and understand your dad's attitude towards practicality and prioritizing this market fluctuation or that that tax incentive so on.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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dom
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22/11/2020 11:54 am  

Apologies for double post but Wilson's Mysteries  (Publisher; Hodder and Stoughton, 1978)  the Chapter entitled The curious history of human stupidity sheds a better light on the attitude of most scientists which is akin to canine -like grip on a bone not necessarily  motivated by fear of pension loss. 

The notion that the gentle scientific truth loving investigator is held back by the religious and superstitious is disputed as it always worked both ways.  Bruno and Gallileo were basically assholes and this arrogance and superiority complex is quite widespread amongst scientists as seen in the outright dismissal of  parapsychology.   In short as Blake said 'Reason (circuit 3) is a whore'.   That is, circuit 3 is all too ready to go with what circuit 2 and 1 dictate it to do.   Not a good metaphor strictly speaking as whores are essentially business people who strike bargains fort their services but you get the point.   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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22/11/2020 7:58 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Science is political i.e. it's about not losing one's pension and toeing the line to get funding

No, "Science" is not political. The "Operative Field" of Science, and the Scientists themselves, can be very political.  I'm sure you meant "The Field of Science" in your terse comment. 5th ray Science is "concrete practicalism." Scientists are subject to rules established by politicians. 

 

 


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ignant666
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22/11/2020 8:13 pm  

Of course, there is such a thing as the sociology of science, and of course, being an activity involving multiple primates, "[s]cience is political".

But the idea that science somehow excludes stuff that works for tribal/political/social/financial reasons is just silly, especially when typed on a digital computing device connected to the internet, and running off an electrical power grid.

If it works, it's science, no matter how far the line has been un-toed. If it doesn't work yet, it isn't science yet.


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dom
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22/11/2020 9:32 pm  

@Shiva

 

Shiva, tell Ignant what the stars say about the pandemic vaccine. 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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23/11/2020 2:31 am  
Posted by: @dom

Shiva, tell Ignant what the stars say about the pandemic vaccine. 

Why, and to what end?

Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

you were never one for e.g. meditation were you? 

Curious where you got this idea? 

Yes, I was wondering that too...

Norma N Joy Conquest


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kidneyhawk
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23/11/2020 2:33 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Yes, I was wondering that too..

I was, also.

 

Just sayin'....


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Shiva
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23/11/2020 8:00 am  
Posted by: @dom

Shiva, tell Ignant what the stars say about the pandemic vaccine. 

I don't know anything about it that's not writ in the daily news, but I'll try ...

Ignant, they are working on a vaccine. When I was 11 or 12, they came out with a polio vaccine. I was among the first wave to get it. At school. They gave a sugar cube to all of us, with a red drop of something in the sugar. I ate it. I never got polio.

Is there something I left out? Oh, the Stars? I'm not an astrologer. Call on Frater Micro for that.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter and Kidneyhawk

Yes, I was wondering that too...

Dom thinks Ignant uses drugs instead of doing the work. A lotta people do that, you know. But I have inside info that says he (Ignant) does the work. He is not arm-chaired or devoid of mediation.


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dom
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23/11/2020 9:08 am  
@Shiva Posted  He is not arm-chaired or devoid of mediation.

He never mediates, he lets them fight it out....

Reread the above post by Shiva.

I thought Ignant did logic puzzles instead of hippy sit-arounds as he expressed the former as being a superior method.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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23/11/2020 11:07 am  
Posted by: @dom

I thought Ignant ...

You see how useless the mind can become in certain circumstances?

 


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ignant666
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23/11/2020 3:00 pm  
Posted by: @dom

I thought Ignant did logic puzzles instead of hippy sit-arounds as he expressed the former as being a superior method.

What on earth are you on about here?

Can you remind me when i said "logic puzzles" are a "superior method" to meditation (what i think you mean by "hippy sit-arounds")?

Also, a "superior method" for what? Just baffled by this remark all around.

Posted by: @dom

He never mediates, he lets them fight it out....

I assume i am the "he" in this sentence. I let who fight it out, instead of meditating? This makes zero sense even granting your strange and unfounded assumption that i "never meditate".

 


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dom
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23/11/2020 4:20 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

He never mediates, he lets them fight it out....

I assume i am the "he" in this sentence. I let who fight it out, instead of meditating? This makes zero sense even granting your strange and unfounded assumption that i "never meditate".

 

Looks like I'll have to explain my joke here.  Shiva typed the word 'mediate' for 'meditate'..

When did you advise me to do logic problems as a substitute for yoga? I don't recall exactly,  probably n the thread where Los was formulating that Shrodinger's Cat was not-not alive but was alive or whatever.

I actually do view Logic problems as a decent form of meditation.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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23/11/2020 6:27 pm  
Posted by: @dom

When did you advise me to do logic problems as a substitute for yoga?

I am pretty sure i never said anything of the kind. This advice would make as much sense as suggesting fried egg sandwiches as a substitute for yoga.

Logic is good stuff, yoga ditto, but they serve quite different purposes.


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Shiva
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23/11/2020 8:35 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

What on earth are you on about here?

He clearly said, "I thought Ignant ..."  He is thinking something and trying to express it. He has not yet become familiar with "not-thinking." If fact, he is bubbling over with thoughts about Jesus and Christianity (in the Amado thread) that are so bizarre that I have hesitated, no, refused, to comment or reply ... just this morning, er, afternoon, because I have important things to do.

Posted by: @ignant666

i "never meditate".

You don't do the work, and you never have. You are cycle-by poster here who got a flat tire and are so incompetent that you can't get it fixed, because it's logic is too puzzled, and you can't cycle away to be with your hippy sit-around friends. Yeah, he's got you pegged to a "T."

On the other hand, there is such illogical exuberance this day that we may have to recommend medications ... or Seeing the Doctor - but who wants to be anywhere near medical facilities these days?

Posted by: @dom

Looks like I'll have to explain my joke here.  Shiva typed the word 'mediate' for 'meditate'..

Yes. On purpose. Meditation is either dhyana or an excuse for sitting still. Meditation IS mediation between the dork mind and the so-called Higher Self. It was not a typo. I was not a joke. Forget the bullets for now. Just count your meds and be sure to take them as directed.

Posted by: @dom

I actually do view Logic problems as a decent form of meditation.

Your confession has now been recorded. I'm going to speak to the Zen Master and have your mind thrown out. Today, you are digging a very deep hole for your yourself.

 


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dom
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23/11/2020 8:51 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

When did you advise me to do logic problems as a substitute for yoga?

I am pretty sure i never said anything of the kind. This advice would make as much sense as suggesting fried egg sandwiches as a substitute for yoga.

Logic is good stuff, yoga ditto, but they serve quite different purposes.

Maybe my memory processed the info you posted below (in 2018) as logic problems as a substitute for yoga or maybe it was in a thread about yoga/asana around that time;

 

https://www.lashtal.com/forums/thelema/a-new-resident-of-the-city-of-the-pyramids-los/paged/12/

 

09/06/2018 1:23 am 

 

A thing for you to ponder: Have the self-styled apostles of "reason and "logic" in "Skeptical Thelema" such as S.'. H.". Fra. Los, 8=3, or The Sainted Erwin, 8=3 [and presumably now 9=2, now that his student Los has "attained" 8=3], ever provided you with anything to help you actually learn anything about reason and logic? Funny, hmmm?

But here is the "Gullible Thelema" guy trying to help you learn to reason?!

Of course, this is so you will, having been armed with this weapon, learn its limitations (it is said that "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword"), and then, perhaps, escape "the pit called because", and tame "the dogs of reason".

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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23/11/2020 9:13 pm  

Thanx for taking the time to dig that out.

Clearly i was not advocating logic over yoga (and no puzzles are mentioned). I was pointing out that the "Skeptical Thelemites" you admired at that time have piss-poor logic skills, and a high-school level of scientific knowledge (being charitable here), despite them claiming to worship logic and science.

For the avoidance of confusion, i practiced yoga, and meditated, daily for decades and can still get into a few asanas, though yoga isn't something i've done often in many years. Dharana/dhyana continue to this day.

Facility with logic has enabled me to earn a living as a drug dealer, nightclub bouncer, bike messenger, lawyer, teacher of "logic puzzles" (the kind found on the US grad school exams), and scientist.

I highly recommend serious study of both logic, and yoga/meditation. Do re-read the last paragraph of what you quote, if you still think i am holding logic out as superior to yoga and meditation.

Logic without meditation/yoga can work out quite well on the material plane; yoga/meditation without logic leads to mush-minded wooly-headedness and woo-woo. Combining the two might be referred to as adopting "the method of science" with "the aim of religion".


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