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christibrany
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05/05/2020 8:05 pm  

Anyone know of any good vendor/artisan that crafts Enochian tablets, Lamen, Ring, Sigilum?

 

I don't believe it is a requirement in any Order to make your own Enochian gear, only the 'basic' weapons, so I wouldn't mind purchasing it as I begin experimenting with this system.

I checked online and the one I found at goldendawnshop.com seems okay, but kind of pricey with not super high quality. 

I had drawn some of the tablets on paper over a decade ago but they are lost, and I would prefer something more sturdy.

Thank you for your time!


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Jamie J Barter
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06/05/2020 2:50 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

I checked online and the one I found at goldendawnshop.com seems okay, but kind of pricey with not super high quality. 

I'm waiting to see what ordotempliorientisshop.com and astrumargenteumshop.com come up with first before I part with my shekels.

NormaN Joy Conquest


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Shiva
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06/05/2020 6:09 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter...

I'm waiting to see

Save your shekels, save a dime,
Shop at Ordo every time,
Save a dollar and much more
at your local duplex store.

(Theme song from Thrifty Drug Store ... now defunct).


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azrael2393
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Shiva
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29/05/2020 5:04 pm  

The History Lecture

The subject of Enochianism is rising up in a couple of forums, and it started (recently) on this very thread. There seems to be a certain amount of interest in this subject, starting with Enoch himself, millenia ago, then slipping through the centuries to the hands of Dee and Kelly to arrive 300 annumis to the Gilded Sunrise Golden Dawn. There, it was picked up by Sir Aleister Perdurabo and carried through to the end, even unto the First Æthyr.

When VVVVV chatted with Perdurabo and the dentist DDS, he hinted at the wholesale publication of all the secrets of the Dawn, plus some misunderstood stuff from the Hindus, along with the vilification of Edwin Arthwaite, and this included a number of essays on the Enochian letters and lingo.

The Practicum

The approach to liberation, first from personal desire then from the mind itself, does not require learning and performing the Enochian lingo or letters, and not even the making of things like instruments or doo-dads that hang upon one's brow.

The curriculum of the A.'.A.'. does not include the memorization, construction, or performance of Enochian letters, artifacts, or ceremonies. These concepts and their associated doo-dads may be considered an elective, or one of several approaches that are not included in the core curriculum.

For those who are inexplicably drawn to this approach, they are wished good-spelling an god-speed in their endeavors.

Then we find Christ ibrany, who initiated this thread, in a line that has added the Enochian elective to their core curriculum. I always thought the idea was to streamline the curriculum down into its essential aspects, not add non-essential burdens.

Members of the S.'.S.'. are entitled to found orders dependent upon themselves, in order to cover lines of attainment not covered in the core curriculum. This is great, a liberal and inclusive gesture to allow flexibility.

But if this new curriculum is dependent upon themselves, how can they hold up the banner of the A.'.A.'. and say, "Come in here. We are the real deal." ... ?

So there are two A.'.A.'.s on the physical plane. One offers the original core curriculum. The others offer extra bonus rewards, which may or may not be redeemable. I have long since advocated that folks who want to teach others, based on themselves, should get their own name for their own order, unless they have a direct-line lineage link and are offering the original core curriculum.

It is absolutely useless for anyone to dispute my position and say, "Yeah, but ...," for I could easily alter my paragraphs, changing not to will or do, and announce accolades for those who screw with the surface definitions of the Path.

But my personal opinion is: Enochian is not a core course.

 


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christibrany
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29/05/2020 6:18 pm  

@azrael2393

Thank you! Much appreciated and seemingly very high quality.  Just spent 'some' money there.

93s

 

@shiva

 

Posted by: @shiva

Enochian is not a core course.

Totally agree!

Want to chat some angels up. 

As a 'fun aside' from my core classes.

Sort of like when i took a Feng Shui class at university.  Not necessary but definitely interesting/helpful. Prof. was a real Chinese person. gee golly!

If I recall my smart ass final project was to design the perfect feng shui house.  It was in a circle, no sharp edges, all portals facing the proper directions with the river and hill in right spots etc etc. 

 

Angels have a way of reaching you, once you dig in enough ,but is it not also, a joy, in this ineffable winging, to reach out, of one's own?  


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ignant666
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29/05/2020 6:38 pm  

A friend of the late '90s whom i've lost track of, a Finn who was a full-patch member of Hells Angels Finland, and a vet of commando service in Afghanistan, was very knowledgeable about martial arts, and feng shui.

He said feng shui is mostly about creating physically defensible spaces, thus no blind corners, lots of mirrors, your bed must face the door, etc.

My knowledge of Enochian matters is near nil, except that it comes with the best props of any form of magick, with the sigillum, watchtowers etc. i recall another source of this stuff from years ago.

From my first contact with magick, i viewed Enochian, Goetic, and Ambramelin work as dubious, possibly dangerous to sanity, and not needed. There are enough demonic forces in my life without evoking the motherfuckers.

Besides, isn't all that stuff abrogate?


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christibrany
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29/05/2020 6:44 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

From my first contact with magick, i viewed Enochian, Goetic, and Ambramelin work as dubious, possibly dangerous to sanity, and not needed. There are enough demonic forces in my life without evoking the motherfuckers.

Besides, isn't all that stuff abrogate?

Not needed and 'abrogate'

but still an interesting tool !

I have no desire to do Goetic work, and I was required to do 'forms' of Abramelin if you will, but yes Enochian is 'extra curricular'  not 'extra credit' 

 

Finns are strange. Very strange.

My wife's favourite musicians are Finnish, Tarja Turunen and Ville Vallhalla Valo


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dom
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29/05/2020 7:20 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

.

From my first contact with magick, i viewed Enochian, Goetic, and Ambramelin work as dubious, possibly dangerous to sanity, and not needed. There are enough demonic forces in my life without evoking the motherfuckers.

Besides, isn't all that stuff abrogate?

Who said that they were 'demonic'?  

 

Answer:  those who wish to rise up the ranks of the Roman Catholic Church and the Evangelical Protestant Church for a start.   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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29/05/2020 7:34 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Who said that they were 'demonic'?  

Sensible people?

Yes, Enochian work claims to deal with "angels" of the Judeo-Xian "god", aka the Demiurge, a tribal demon of the Jews later appropriated by Europeans and others. Read Genesis, and the Old Testament more generally- their god is a definitely evil, vindictive, and malevolent being; his so-called "angels"? Flying demons. So, yup, check, ultra-demonic.

And sure, Abramelin work begins with the whole K & C of the HGA business, but then gets to the real point: evoking the 12 Kings and Dukes of Hell, and their familiar spirits, so you can make talismans "To Find A Great Treasure", and so on. Kinda demonic? Yup.

Goetia, demonic? Um yeah.


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Shiva
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29/05/2020 11:50 pm  
Posted by: @dom

Who said that they were 'demonic'?  

Well, Abramelin said (some of) the forces in his collection of squares were demons.

And Ignant defined his own elemental brigade as demons.

But the church would call the angels, and the demons, demons.

Demons are personality faces placed over elemental forces. They are blind forces, dedicated to specialty tasks.

Posted by: @ignant666

their god is a definitely evil, vindictive, and malevolent being

He is like Aleister Crowley in a bad mood.

Posted by: @ignant666

the HGA business, but then gets to the real point: evoking the 12 Kings and Dukes of Hell, and their familiar spirits,

Yeah, it's really complex. The VIIIth Æthyr version gets right to the point with the HGA, involves no post-knowledge & conversation evocation, and is reduced from 6 months to three months. Very economical and efficient ... without the baggage of a suitcase full of talismans for every occasion.

 


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ignant666
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30/05/2020 12:13 am  
Posted by: @shiva

[YHVH/Jehovah] is like Aleister Crowley in a bad mood.

Way worse.

AC's worst enemies never accused him of

  • stopping the sun in mid-sky to facilitate genocide [Joshua 10:13; see also Isaiah 38:8, where this same "god" makes the earth go backwards], or
  • having 42 small children torn to bits by two she-bears for mocking bald-headedness [2 Kings 2:23-25], or
  • offering up his virgin daughters to be gang-raped, to save two "angels" [read " visible demonic entities"] from the same fate [Genesis 19:1–11]

to list but a few of the many atrocities, betrayals, lies, and general utterly evil behavior of this "YHVH/Jehovah" character.

And this is according to his biggest fans, not his worst enemies.


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Shiva
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30/05/2020 1:21 am  

The biggest problem old Je-ho-wow-h had, and has, is that he has a name. We are not fooled. We know that any supreme and ultimate deity is nameless.

So there.


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Shiva
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30/05/2020 2:41 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

As a 'fun aside' from my core classes.

Yeah, I know the feeling. Having long ago gotten towards the end of the official core curriculum (but still with another 24 years to go), I took a side tour into the elective world of Tibetan Empowerments. That side-tour elective ended up being the core of my work.

Most of my comments above were in relation to the lineage that wants (requires?) you to possess Enochian instruments and whatnot, which is hardly core material. There is nothing wrong with it, and it is good to absorb as many different systems as possible, because long before the end, everyone has to spin out there own system which is usually a synthesis of different streams (raja yoga, gothic ritual, hebrew QBL, pagan sun worship, astral travel, gypsy fortune telling, enochian angel-speak, etc).


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ignant666
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30/05/2020 11:59 am  

What i wrote above was unclear: "God"/YHVH of course has no daughters, and didn't offer these non-existent women up to be gang-banged.

What this demonic entity did do was reward the righteous man, Lot, who offered his daughters up as substitutes for YHVH's two "angels", when the men of Sodom expressed an interest in "knowing" the "angels".

"Just Say No" to angels and demons, whatever all the other kids are doing. If any show up at your house, send them away. Nothing but trouble, those angels.


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christibrany
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30/05/2020 4:26 pm  

@shiva

Perhaps I was unclear but as an aside to my aside, the lineage I am operating in does not require or prescribe enochian work, it is truly extra curricular.

 

@ignant666

 

You new Yorkers are so crass 

 

😐

 

🙂


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ignant666
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30/05/2020 4:43 pm  

In NY, it is considered an error to buy retail- always go wholesale.

You want godhead, go with gods, don't mess with "angels" or demons. Demons at least have the virtue of honesty- they admit they are emissaries of evil.


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dom
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30/05/2020 5:43 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666
Posted by: @dom

Who said that they were 'demonic'?  

Sensible people?

Yes, Enochian work claims to deal with "angels" of the Judeo-Xian "god", aka the Demiurge, a tribal demon of the Jews later appropriated by Europeans and others. Read Genesis, and the Old Testament more generally- their god is a definitely evil, vindictive, and malevolent being; his so-called "angels"? Flying demons. So, yup, check, ultra-demonic.

And sure, Abramelin work begins with the whole K & C of the HGA business, but then gets to the real point: evoking the 12 Kings and Dukes of Hell, and their familiar spirits, so you can make talismans "To Find A Great Treasure", and so on. Kinda demonic? Yup.

Goetia, demonic? Um yeah.

 

No mate, we seem to be talking about different things here.  I recommend Milo Duquette's edited version of Crowley's Illustrated Goetia.   Those 'Demons' are generally if not exclusively all medieval versions of pre-xtian Middle Eastern Pagan Gods.   YHVH doesn't come into this.   You know the story,  Pagan Gods became demonized i..e 'demons'.   The Old Aeon magician used to summon them and threaten them with banishment etc.   Jim Eshelman has also written about this, that was the Piscean Old Aeon dumb way.   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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ignant666
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30/05/2020 5:52 pm  

And pick your gods carefully, of course- that YHVH is a "muscular boy"*. His purported son is no better.

The Sun, the Moon, the Stars, trees, Mithra, Dionysus/Bacchus, Shiva and Shakti are some of the entities i have worshiped.

_______________

*Explaining this pun for post-boomers, and folks who are not terminal rock nerds: "She's a muscular boy" is a common mis-hearing of the hook of the 1965 Herman's Hermit's hit "A Must To Avoid".


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djedi
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30/05/2020 7:09 pm  

One corollary of the Midianite hypothesis is that YHVH was a south Canaanite/Kenite god of Metallurgy. There is another, more well-known (I think) theory that YHVH was a volcano god, with Mt. Sinai being the requisite volcano. I'm not saying we should mix-and-match our theories, but it is a fun little coincidence that Vulcan and Hephaestus were also metalworking gods associated with mountains-on-fire. Not that these theories should or could be seen as anything more than witty amusements stemming from questions that will never have answers. Archaeology is far from a hard science -- especially when religion beyond mythologies gets involved -- and considering the special relationship between academia and the Judaic religion, we mustn't hold our breath waiting for honest scholarship on this delicate matter.

That aside, I think the old testament is one of the funniest collections of books ever written. My favorite part, which @ignant666 neglected to mention, is Exodus 4:24-26 when, right after sending Moses on a special mission to perform miracles in front of Pharaoh, the Lord appears in-person at a motel to beat Moses to death, for reasons that are never explained. After Zipporah, Mo's wife, cuts the tip of their son's dick off and throws it at the Lord, he runs off. You may think he's cruel or insane, but I think he's a pretty funny guy.

The most famous of Harlan Ellison's books, I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream, is regarded as one of the great horrors of pulp fiction. When AM, who I think is Harlan's (who was jewish) attempt to understand YHVH's motivations in the old testament, turns Ted into a great, soft, jelly thing at the end of the story, Ted thinks of his eternal torment in the titular words, "I have no mouth and I must scream." This parallels AM's own anguish. I think of the Peripatetics, who pitied God, believing that he was forced to exist by some circular ontology -- omnipotent, and so, helpless.


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ignant666
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30/05/2020 7:24 pm  

How they get folks to worship YHVH after any Bible-reading has always been a mystery to me. The Roman Catholics had the right idea- keep the Bible for those in on the scam. The snake is the obvious "good guy" in Genesis.

YHVH is so obviously totally evil, murderous, vindictive, spiteful, untrustworthy, misogynist, xenophobic, and really hung up on penises and foreskins, and really into incest, and incredibly uptight, with lots of pointless rules about oysters and bacon and fabrics and sex, and just strange. And those are His good qualities. The kid talks a good talk with that "kingdom of heaven is within you" schtick, but that is one murderous egregore. The whole family is bad news.


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Shiva
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30/05/2020 8:17 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

YHVH's two "angels"

I believe the word is spelled Angles, as in Dos Angleles. IHVH had a really good program running on the Duality Channel, to which many people still subscribe today.

Posted by: @christibrany

the lineage I am operating in does not require or prescribe enochian work, it is truly extra curricular.

Why, yes, you were unclear. you writ as follows ...

Posted by: @christibrany

I don't believe it is a requirement in any Order to make your own Enochian gear

Your qualifier, above, it turns out, is perfectly clear. I was somehow confounded and confused "Enochian Gear" with the (your) line's requirement that the Neophyte memorize a bunch of 777 Tabes in order to get to ride Ra's Boat down the River Tuat (boarding at Yesod ... heading for Dominus L.'.), which I feel is premature, and so do you, but that's rather a minor point.

If your words, "I don't believe it is a requirement in any Order to make ...," had been properly grasped by myself, it would have saved me a lot of time and words defending an assault upon a windmill.

Posted by: @ignant666

Demons at least have the virtue of honesty- they admit they are emissaries of evil.

The Hindus had a better grasp on this realm than we generally do today. Let me recite the litany ...

There are us humans. We are.

There are entities in a dimension parallel to our own reality-tunnel.

They are of two classes: (a) The devas (angels) and the asuras (demons). They can be seen, and under certain circumstances (invocation, evocation, or spontaneous occurrence), they can be "contacted" (spoken to or with, monologue or dialogue).

The devas (angels) will help humanity. They do not cause problems.

The asuras (demons) will cause trouble for humanity.

The devas and the asuras do not get along. They have wars.

The present thread was initiated by an aspirant in some un-named lineage. The curriculum thereof includes the requirement to contact, and control, demons. Whether this be done via the ancient methods of Solomon the King, or through medieval Sorcery, or by the Enochian route, is not specified. There is also a requirement to get to know, and chat with, an "Angel." To avoid these things is good protection for a human person, but the curriculum requires the initiate to get his hands dirty.

Lest I become fixed in spouting dogma, let it be known that these angels and demons are, in the long run, not separate entities from our true nature, but are simply facets or fragments of our overall psyche. These "entities" are found in other disciplines, other paths, and they are called something else. Other paths include psychology, science, etc.  In computer science, for example, demons are called bugs, or viruses, or 'bots.

Posted by: @dom

 YHVH doesn't come into this. 

Oh yes he does. He is the incarnated deity whose basic precepts govern the belief system of the western world. He is a tribal deity, not Universal in nature. There are many reasons to suspect he is a demon, an asura, who masquerades as our Creator. Since he has a name and a personality, he could not possibly be the Creator.

It should be noted that in the heat of debate ("we seem to be talking about two different things here"), you have evoked the writings of some member of the One True Order, who is not present. When the debate gets heated, when the gloves come off, when the grenade is taken out of the drawer, I would encourage you to cite what you know to be true from your own experience, not run off to the library.

Posted by: @dom

Pagan Gods became demonized i..e 'demons

Yes, yes. There is all this theological and philosophical bullshit to wade through. None of it has any bearing on how one reacts or behaves when  one has invoked an angel or deity into the circle, and one is facing a demon, a spirit, an asura, a blind force, who is dimly visible in the thick smoke of incense suffusing the zone within and above the triangle.

It doesn't matter if these subconscious forces are pagan gods, Abramelin demons, Goetic spirits, or alien reptiles. Evocation is a practice. What in the hell are we practicing for? For the real evocations. The examination of one's own hell, Id, and general infrastructure. When it becomes defined, and controlled, it rarely resembles the worlds of Abramelin or the Goetia. Jung probably explains it best. Crowley glossed over this rather important point.

 

 


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christibrany
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30/05/2020 10:02 pm  

@shiva

I have a lot of experience w 'The examination of one's own hell, Id, and general infrastructure' 

 

And it aint pretty 🙁

I am afraid there will needs be a lot of angelic plumbers for this septic yank lol tank before the house is vacated.

Whether their cars are fast enough is another story. 


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dom
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31/05/2020 12:59 pm  

@shiva

 

Yes we can always use the psychological model as we will.  There are more Jinn than us humans, they're everywhere.   Use the right incense and you got a Jinn party goin' on in the house haha. 

@christibrany

I have a lot of experience w 'The examination of one's own hell, Id, and general infrastructure' 

 

And it aint pretty 🙁

I am afraid there will needs be a lot of angelic plumbers for this septic yank lol tank before the house is vacated.

Whether their cars are fast enough is another story.

 

C'mon Chris, what do you need?  There's a Demon out there just waiting to get you what you want and need..... call it.. lol. 

 

Seriously though as Shiva said, what's the point of all this Evocation and why did AC even recommend it?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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31/05/2020 5:36 pm  
Posted by: @dom

what's the point of all this Evocation and why did AC even recommend it?

It is merely one paradigm or scenario for finding and controlling subconscious, unharmonized aspects of one's being. Many magicians are able to call up demons, yet fail to realize each demon is potentially a problem in daily life.

 


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dom
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31/05/2020 7:28 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @dom

what's the point of all this Evocation and why did AC even recommend it?

It is merely one paradigm or scenario for finding and controlling subconscious, unharmonized aspects of one's being. Many magicians are able to call up demons, yet fail to realize each demon is potentially a problem in daily life.

 

...and/or it's good practice for subtle communication.......or it's meant to be anyway.   

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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