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katrice
(@katrice)
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93,

 

I'm looking for people in the NYC area who are serious about A:.A:. Work and Sex Magick, and also open to Working with initiates who follow the Left Hand Path.   I'm looking to connect with like-minded people willing to work together as a study and practice group. 

 

93/93


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @katrice

also open to Working with initiates who follow the Left Hand Path.

Please define what you mean by "Left Hand Path."

You see, there are different definitions. First there is anybody who works with sexual energies - the Hindus sometimes get pure and lofty, and they renounce sex magic and rituals, and they downgrade those who do by assigning them to the Left.

Then there is the loose definition of those who work black magic. Any application of spiritual energy to material ends.

Finally, there is the advanced adept who hangs on to his/her ego (in the Abyss Adventure [A.'.A.'.], who becomes A Black Brother of The Left Hand Path.

Are you willing to work with any of these Left-Handers?


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katrice
(@katrice)
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Topic starter  

@shiva 

 

Sexual magick, liberation via antinomian practices, and following a path of self-perfection and deification through initiatory magick.


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Joined: 16 years ago
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There is the Caliphate OTO lodge for NYC, Tahuti Lodge. They do regular public Gnostic Masses, though they may not have started again yet post-COVID:

http://tahutilodge.org/wp/

There is Aiwass Study Group which is a path into Eshelman's A.'. A.'. (and possibly also a Motta-ite A.'. A,'. faction though they may have left by now):

http://aiwass.org/main.html

I have had some contact with each. If you don't understand the above descriptions, do your homework.

There are two occult bookstores in NYC that i know of. There is the very old Enchantments in the East Village, old-school Wiccans, but staff are very likely to know lots about NYC occulture, decent Crowley books selection:

http://www.enchantmentsnyc.com/

And then the much newer hipster Wiccans at Catland in Bushwick, Brooklyn, have never been but have heard good things, probably their staff also will be hip to lots of things if you ask:

https://www.catlandbooks.com/pages/about

That ought to be enough leads to help you find some interesting folks in NYC.

Self deification is redundant though. You sound like you want some kind of initiatory Satanism. This is a waste of time, likely to lead to meeting some truly slimy folks, and i know of no folks into it in the city, though there must be a few in a city of millions.

 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

Sexual magick, liberation via antinomian practices, and following a path of self-perfection and deification through initiatory magick.

Oh, a new word for me

Antinomian
 
1: one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation
 
2:one who rejects a socially established morality
 
Aha!  Amorality is often attributed to the 6th, electric, circuit, which resides at Geburah, where the practice of sexual magic is practiced.
 
Okay. I'm not in NY, and not even the whole East Coast, but I know there's somebody in that area.
Posted by: @ignant666

Self deification is redundant though.

Oh, no. Not that again. The problem I'm having is the desire to meet "serious A.'.A.'." folks. If they are really serious, they cannot be found, except to bump into the open end of a lineage line, although some 6=5s might be looking for tantric consorts.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Posted by: @shiva

they cannot be found, except to bump into the open end of a lineage line,

What does this mean? 


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wellreadwellbred
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Katrice: "I'm looking for people in the NYC area who are serious about A:.A:. Work and Sex Magick, and also open to Working with initiates who follow the Left Hand Path. ..."

Shiva: "Please define what you mean by "Left Hand Path.""

Katrice "... liberation via antinomian practices, and following a path of self-perfection and deification ...".

"Later 20th and 21st centuries[:]

In 1975, Kenneth Grant, a student of Aleister Crowley, explained in Cults of the Shadow that he and his group, the Typhonian Order, practiced the LHP. Grant's usage takes meaning from its roots in eastern Tantra; Grant states that it is about challenging taboos, but that it should be used in conjunction with the RHP to achieve balance. [...]

Stephen E. Flowers of the Temple of Set writes of two criteria to be considered a true Lord of the Left-Hand Path: self-deification and antinomianism." 

(  Source: Left-hand path and right-hand path From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - - - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-hand_path_and_right-hand_path#Later_20th_and_21st_centuries   )

 

"The Typhonian Order, previously known as the Typhonian Ordo Templi Orientis (TOTO), is a self-initiatory magical order based in the United Kingdom that focuses on magickal and typhonian concepts. It was originally led by British occultist Kenneth Grant (1924–2011) and his partner Steffi Grant, and is now believed to be led by their deputy Michael Staley." 

( Source: Typhonian Order From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - - - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhonian_Order  )

 

Katrice, the British occultist Kenneth Grant's former deputy in the Typhonian Order, Michael Staley, is an active member on this forum, and might have some information about if its Left-Handed Path practices, pertains to the antinomianism and self-deification you want. And about if it is active in the NYC area, of the US. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @christibrany

What does this mean?

"Serious" members of the A.'.A.'. are not found openly embracing cowans from the outer world. Just look at the years of messages here about "Where do I join the A.'.A.'.?" (Accompanied by reports of their messages not being answered. My reference was to the idea that one simply "bumps" into a Neophyte or a Philosophus who needs an "inferior" student to become part of his/her downline.

I believe you shopped around, and applied, and somehow got accepted into a line - but you are rare compared to the demand. Anyway, our querent doesn't seem to want to join the A.'.A.'., but is interested in sex magic (an OYO "secret") in relation to people who are "serious" about A.'.A.'., but who will consider left-handers. You could volunteer, but you're not in NYC.


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christibrany
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @christibrany

What does this mean?

"Serious" members of the A.'.A.'. are not found openly embracing cowans from the outer world. Just look at the years of messages here about "Where do I join the A.'.A.'.?" (Accompanied by reports of their messages not being answered. My reference was to the idea that one simply "bumps" into a Neophyte or a Philosophus who needs an "inferior" student to become part of his/her downline.

I believe you shopped around, and applied, and somehow got accepted into a line - but you are rare compared to the demand. Anyway, our querent doesn't seem to want to join the A.'.A.'., but is interested in sex magic (an OYO "secret") in relation to people who are "serious" about A.'.A.'., but who will consider left-handers. You could volunteer, but you're not in NYC.

NO THANK YOU


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katrice
(@katrice)
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Topic starter  
 If you don't understand the above descriptions, do your homework. 
I assure you that I understood every word of your response.

 

That ought to be enough leads to help you find some interesting folks in NYC.

Thank you, I shall check these out.

Self deification is redundant though.

In that so much of initiatory Work is a process of "remembering", I agree with that.

 

You sound like you want some kind of initiatory Satanism.

Initiatory Satanism borrowed these concepts from Hindu LHP Tantra, ultimately because Blavatsky, and Rollo Ahmed, were prudes. 

 

  likely to lead to meeting some truly slimy folks, 

as will asking for people interested in sex magick, but I've accepted that this will come with the nature of my requests and I am prepared to rigorously screen people. 

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @katrice

Sexual magick, liberation via antinomian practices, and following a path of self-perfection and deification through initiatory magick.

Oh, a new word for me

I'm happy that I could help you learn something new.

 

Truly transgressive practice, though, involves one violating one's own taboos, which I also want to become part of this, having done it in my own practice to very good effect.

 

  the desire to meet "serious A.'.A.'." folks. 

 

I simply wish to connect with people who are serious about actually doing the Work, rather than self-professed Thelemites who can't even do a Star Ruby on their own, much less anything more involved. 

 

 

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

  Katrice, the British occultist Kenneth Grant's former deputy in the Typhonian Order, Michael Staley, is an active member on this forum, and might have some information about if its Left-Handed Path practices, pertains to the antinomianism and self-deification you want. And about if it is active in the NYC area, of the US. 

 

Thank you for this lead.  I am quite familiar with Kenneth Grant's work, I've read all of his Typhonian books.  I was not asking about information on LHP practices themselves, I've followed the LHP in that manifestation for years now.  I was simply looking for fellow travelers also in to the Work of the A:.A:. and Sex Magick. 


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Michael Staley
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MANIO - it's all in the egg
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

the British occultist Kenneth Grant's former deputy in the Typhonian Order, Michael Staley, is an active member on this forum, and might have some information about if its Left-Handed Path practices, pertains to the antinomianism and self-deification you want.

I appreciate that you trying to be helpful to Katrice, wellreadwellbred, but "Self-perfection and deification" is far removed from Kenneth Grant's work which,  though rich and multi-facetted, is rooted in Advaita. The term "Left Hand Path" is used in a variety of contexts, and has in this instance taken you down a dark alley (lucky you, eh?)


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katrice
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@shiva 

Aha!  Amorality is often attributed to the 6th, electric, circuit, which resides at Geburah, where the practice of sexual magic is practiced.

I forgot to mention, reading this part of your response made me smile.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

part of your response made me smile.

Oh, I'm just rattling off simple correspondences. Since they imply a rather level of working, it will be interesting to see who's in your neighborhood. There are very few adepts anywhere. You might have to settle for some Outer Order folks ... hopefully the ones that are not insane, or almost there - it's dangerous living on the edge.


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katrice
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

the British occultist Kenneth Grant's former deputy in the Typhonian Order, Michael Staley, is an active member on this forum, and might have some information about if its Left-Handed Path practices, pertains to the antinomianism and self-deification you want.

I appreciate that you trying to be helpful to Katrice, wellreadwellbred, but "Self-perfection and deification" is far removed from Kenneth Grant's work which,  though rich and multi-facetted, is rooted in Advaita. The term "Left Hand Path" is used in a variety of contexts, and has in this instance taken you down a dark alley (lucky you, eh?)

Hello Mr Staley,

 

Thank you for responding.  I had mentioned that I am familiar with Mr Grant's Typhonian books, and you are correct. While I do find his writings very fascinating, and finding Cults of the Shadow in a used bookstore very early in my magickal career led me down some very interesting paths, they don't precisely align with what I practice, which becomes more and more apparent in his later works in the series.   


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katrice
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@shiva 

 

Oh, I'm just rattling off simple correspondences. Since they imply a rather level of working, it will be interesting to see who's in your neighborhood. There are very few adepts anywhere. You might have to settle for some Outer Order folks ... hopefully the ones that are not insane, or almost there - it's dangerous living on the edge.

 

They were extremely insightful correspondences!   I know there are few adepts out there, and probably fewer still would would be interested in what I have in mind.  I'd just be happy with people who is not insane and is serious about initiatory work.     It is dangerous living on the edge. Like I mentioned earlier, I've done my share of transgressive Work with my own personal taboos and limits. Some of which led me to things I now truly enjoy, some of which led me to things that I did not but at least led me to experience the Trance of Loathing, and some of which led me to psychological states that took a while to recover from but left me stronger in the end 


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Serpent 252
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Posted by: @shiva

it's dangerous living on the edge.

@Shiva,

it's not that dangerous living on the edge.

 

Posted by: @katrice

Trance of Loathing

@katrice

what is the Trance of Loathing? I had had a lot of trances / Trances, so it may be I've already experienced that Trance.

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @serpent252

what is the Trance of Loathing? I had had a lot of trances / Trances, so it may be I've already experienced that Trance.

When something shocks, disgusts, or horrifies you deeply enough that it produces an altered state of consciousness and radical confrontation with your own limitations. Ideally, such an experience can at least neutralize the barrier in your psyche that you went up against, or even eliminate it.  The term comes from Fr U:.D:.'s book on sex magick, and Robert North writes about a similar concept in The New Flesh Palladium.   


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Shiva
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Posted by: @serpent252

it's not that dangerous living on the edge.

I have previously listed the identities of those who entered the path ... and died ... very prematurely. But, I was [Eye Wass] referring to those who live on the edge of insanity. You know, in danger of losing their grip.

Posted by: @katrice

When something shocks, disgusts, or horrifies you deeply enough that it produces an altered state of consciousness

Yes. We have discussed this from the Aghora viewpoint. So as to avoid any conflict of interest, I am required to present my status as a protagonist of the Anticopraphagic League, which is opposed to the eating of excrement due to E. Coli, a nasty intestinal bug ... but other than that (and related medicalities), engaging in atrocities is recommended for those who care to pursue such activities under the banner, "Every act is a magickal [f]act."

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

 

Yes. We have discussed this from the Aghora viewpoint. So as to avoid any conflict of interest, I am required to present my status as a protagonist of the Anticopraphagic League, which is opposed to the eating of excrement due to E. Coli, a nasty intestinal bug ... but other than that (and related medicalities), engaging in atrocities is recommended for those who care to pursue such activities under the banner, "Every act is a magickal [f]act."

 

 

The Aghoris' practices are an excellent example of the concept. That said, I don't see myself eating rotten brains out of an exploded skull any time soon, but maybe that's more to do with lack of opportunity.   I agree with the risks involved with coprophagia, regardless of anything Crowley may have done at Cefalu, where he did seem to be working with the concept himself.  I will confess to performing analingus as part of my exploration of personal transgression, an act that definitely did put me in to the trance of loathing, and one I feel no need to ever perform again. 

Ritual like the Black Mass, its ancestor the Panchamakara, or even Huson's initiation rite in Mastering Witchcraft, can also serve as acts of liberation through transgression, for those bound to the belief that these practices defy.   

Every act can be a magickal act, and on one level these things do illustrate that, but they also can serve as tools of initiation through liberation, if you find you enjoy the act, or feel indifferent to it, or even if you simply don't feel the repulsion any more. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

I don't see myself eating rotten brains ...

Well, yes, er, No!  The Aghoris are extremists. They push the envelope that holds the really repulsive stuff. I wonder how long they live? Crowley dabbled in this sort of stuff, but it wasn't his lifestyle.

Another example of what you are describing, in milder tone, is the concept of Hindu vegetarians who purposely eat (cow) meat. Eek!  This, of course, is nothing to us, but an Indian is committing some sort of unbelievable sin (cultural misdemeanor). They will do this to shock their psyche in order to gain some advancement in their spiritual pursuit. It doesn't have to be gross, or medically dangerous, it just has to be something that violates one's cherished morality.

Posted by: @katrice

 I agree with the risks involved with coprophagia, regardless of anything Crowley may have done at Cefalu

Congratulations, you are a member of the A.C. (Anti-Copraphagia) Society. There is no Membership certificate, but you are supposed to pay your dues in advance.

 

 


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hadgigegenraum
(@hadgigegenraum)
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 Cara Sorar,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

 

Thus forget these ravings....you have inspired by some ~...

 

-Go to the Obelisk in Central Park at the appropriate time between times

and upon such quarters of thine calling 

be prepared for this gathering 

plan and hasten to the fastening

for in thine dress 

resplendent 

as though a billowy cloak 

 by thine dreams and aspirations count thine moons 

as if by child you so await and walk to greet

 

for there you will find yourself

round and round till all disappear

alone 

all one 

for the sun shows the sun and stars by night if you come

it has been there and remembers your remembering 

thus you must mark the dial by thine self's own time

then walk past that boundary dear enterer

as you so intuit

the daring call

within and without

beyond numbers and words for the heart of your shadow

so points in such a way...

Thus remember and take note!

 

So there is a riddle of a larger question

and before you throw this away please find the relation of the shadows

as you walk around 

how long the dross of thine abyss

and round, to that which is still upon the dias so bids

that you too shall point and so become

for like a child's game

remember that the inside is out and the outside is

all gone now in the eternity of your striving

 

Thus one must find as the pole

and so orient as that is the orientation

round the stars, still the earth! as you feel the ride

and the djedj and the button that connects with your mother

masks divine, the isle a forest of silence

and so you may point as thou might 

for thine ancestor's compass

like salmon climbs, this journey

a recapitulation is the not dependent upon these 

symbols in a park, but by some calling

for the sentinel might speak to the query

 

For you will never find if you do not go

and if you have been then if you know

is what you will have found  

yourself alone or the appropriate 

answer so awaits.

 

Follow the arc that is the path forth and hence

to bathe upon the invitation you have given 

and so write from an eternity

for the arc is the direction

to approach and so leave 

no difference, but by the intention of the entering

 

For your intention is the protection

and this proposed journey can call forth 

for raising the stone is but to raze it

or has it fallen and thus wishes to be so animated

for the temple is within and without

the proper calls the silence will never listen

 

Thus the key begins with a key if you can find it

Sex and the City you already know

and what nun might be the master

mothers that protect their babies in what rushes are left

so listen for a bird

if but the pigeons play

your journey to the dove and serpent

will transcend the days and nights 

seasons and evens 

 

But left hand path you ask, then you need not ask

for asking would so imply that you do not know 

is there a moral to sex in the city 

you understand what you want then got it

so this might not be of help,

but it could so if the intention of your arc

say from Enchantments to Catlands

let your whiskers tell you.

for fish hooks for book bait 

might clean the wallet

or your scent may so linger on a page

and then your followed up the tree

Aye can be pronounced in many ways

be wise for

we are never safe these days when we are not ours

 

Thus i can only suggest as upon this  benediction laid out here

as some this might be offered as an offering 

for your offering is recognized by the greeting ninety three

and while this is but a society, what ever that means

this is no teaching though I am sure Resh and Samekh 

might be of your retinue

one might never know as you do what path to take

for freedom is what is left

when  what is right has been blocked

thus read thine Holy Books of Thelema

if but one must find what is on line 

to make one's own edition

pen and to your own secret salivas 

animate the fires of your longing

with the very having that requires no journey

but that is getting ahead of the story 

and it seems that you seek 

in the definitive sense 

so forgive me if I have not been of service

for mockery no matter

 best wishes may ye find

as letters come to and end

this coda is but a beginning!

 

Love is the law, love under will.

HG

 

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Well, yes, er, No!  The Aghoris are extremists. They push the envelope that holds the really repulsive stuff. I wonder how long they live? Crowley dabbled in this sort of stuff, but it wasn't his lifestyle.

Another example of what you are describing, in milder tone, is the concept of Hindu vegetarians who purposely eat (cow) meat. Eek!  This, of course, is nothing to us, but an Indian is committing some sort of unbelievable sin (cultural misdemeanor). They will do this to shock their psyche in order to gain some advancement in their spiritual pursuit. It doesn't have to be gross, or medically dangerous, it just has to be something that violates one's cherished morality.

Dabbling is probably the safer way.  I still do have respect for them, though, and how far they push themselves. 

I alluded to what you mentioned about Hindu vegetarians with my reference to the Panchamakara.  To Americans, it sounds like a fun evening, to orthodox Hindus, it's like a Black Mass. It does indeed not have to be gross or dangerous, like what I mentioned about Huson's initiation ritual, which is just reciting the Lord's Prayer backwards while visualizing lightning striking shackles off of you.  It's a very simple ritual but for the right practitioner, it can be a profound experience.

 

Congratulations, you are a member of the A.C. (Anti-Copraphagia) Society. There is no Membership certificate, but you are supposed to pay your dues in advance.

I'm still allowed in despite having kind of indulged in it once?  😉 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

Cara Sorar

Soror

Posted by: @katrice

I'm still allowed in despite having kind of indulged in it once?

"Kind of" doesn't count. One cannot be called a swimmer if they simply dip their toes in the water.


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hadgigegenraum
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@shiva 

Yes I thought something seemed odd with that spelling I offered, utilizing something I must have come across somewhere (?!)...rather than "Dear Ms".....Thanks for the correction!

I will note that the poetic invitation to @katrice, were written before seeing any of the other comments or her answers. 

It would seem that she is well along in her understandings.


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christibrany
(@christibrany)
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Posted by: @katrice

In that so much of initiatory Work is a process of "remembering", I agree with that.

The goal of 'initiatory work' is not 'self deification' it is survival of the true soul (HGA) (not the ego and personality) after death, indefinitely.  

And furthermore, it is about consumption of the life-ego into Godhead.  Not continuing it on, indefinitely.  

That is hubris. 

 

 

Preachy mood. 

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

I will note that the poetic invitation to @katrice, were written before seeing any of the other comments or her answers. 

It would seem that she is well along in her understandings.

 

Thank you.  I've been at this for a while, I'm just now feeling the call to bring others together,  to work together and learn from each other, if possible.

 

I enjoyed your poem. 


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hadgigegenraum
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@katrice 

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Thank you and with benedictions to your reaching this place which is your invitation that it is an honor to be so inspired, for to work together and learn from each other is indeed a demonstration of intention that is not hubristic per say but an affirmation indeed!

Yes it is good you aware of your journey, a place where seasons blend towards your now saying that a new cycle begins...and thus indeed my invitation was inspired upon your asking and reaching~

Is not asking the beginning, for if one does not so dare, then nothing will become of nothing, but you have enough of that that I should be so inspired at this point to so provide perhaps an inspired template to your quest.

The image that came to mind was, and it was quite immediate, was that you would go to the Obelisk up in Central Park and you would meet someone, and that thus there must be some sign that might so  make the link...

Now since it is you Katrice, if in this opening pas deux has  brought us to understanding and a thank you... So I may call you Ka*Trice as thine star i recognize, and to keep this magick spinning if I might we shall let go from this brief and find with outstretched hands

D28

for indeed by name and appropriate hieroglyph the proper rune is found....in greater wonder for the soul of your name lends to that longing that might be the very sign of those whom might be attracted to this greater work you seek in this season of your life...

The Obelisk that we thus spin widdershins came to mind as a Kiblah that you might don sandals and find the arc and so meet and thus here we are on a certain plain of potential...

for you must call the show, it is not mine, for I am just lending an energy as in joy i can and dare

and thus from this plane, let you go and do your living that others might meet you 

call the time and date and if by riddle here is best

I shall not appear in person, but do remember this opening dance and be blest

for it could be on August 12 for Ouarda and the Beast 

Eight one two (i could not resist)

and there perhaps you might find one who so recognizes 

and thus the sign

D28

 

and thus returned

D28

will be the knowing 

along with the single dress and Ankh

dream upon this 

for this deus to become thrice and thus in celebration throw the rice in the air

falling to become the runes that you will read if but here...

you will know how to start this oeurdure as it is a special task you have called for

may thine perfumes by sweet may the orisons be wines...

such grapes caress

and thus exceed by delicacy 

by which these whispers might 

suggest~

 

Love is the law, love under will.

 

HG

 

 

 


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katrice
(@katrice)
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Topic starter  
 

Kind of" doesn't count. One cannot be called a swimmer if they simply dip their toes in the water.

lol. it wasn't my toe that I dipped, and not water that I dipped it in, but I get your point.

 

A valuable experience, but for me not one that bears repeating.  I shall be a proud member of the Anti-Coprophagia Society. 

 

Crowley did indeed "dabble" in transgressive practice, his time at Cefalu seemed to focus on it more.  I don't know if it was "dabbling", I want to believe he did it as intentional practice, geared towards initiatory work.  Still, I'd like to avoid the issues that came up during his time at the Abbey, if possible. 😉    

 

In a similar way, I don't want this to be the main focus, the focus would be on the Work as a whole, but to still be open to such practices, and to provide a space, metaphorically and perhaps physically, for their pursuit.  One other hazard there would be screening out people who want to do things like this because they're genuinely in to it, rather than as acts of transgression against the self.  While I respect the Work described in The New Flesh Palladium, some of Robert North's writings seem to imply that it's more indulgence than transgression for him and others he may work with.

Not that I have a problem with indulgence, I quite like indulgence, but this is something different.  


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hadgigegenraum
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@katrice 

Cara Soror, 

*!

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

It is unfortunate that you are seemingly being accused in a manner here, relative to certain practices, as you correctly reflect, that Crowley explored at Cefalu, and to which you have noted and at the same time coming to  distinguish your approach, and that further you wish to not get caught in the unfortunate problems that have become a fixation of the press relative to the Abbey.

Indeed thus you have distinguished your boundaries, which is important, for indeed we can see from Epstein to Nexium and all sorts of distortions of what is a grand Eyes Wide Shut Pied Piper game by the oligarchies fifty shades of grey in the false binahs for the bourgeois ...indeed veils of vice to  are used to entice into a twerking jerks of morally compromised that turn into burnt out shells drained of vital fluids before they know it, but who cares fresh blood is on the way....to thus welcome the very robotization of the flesh as the mark of the beast is the brand of patents that proclaim ownerships and slaves...

The initiate will come to distinguish quickly and hopefully before it is too late. 

Frankly I think initiation with such practices can be appreciated as "homeopathic" by which we might come to see through what might be indulgences that go beyond the line such that we come to destroy ourselves, even if it is a mutual masturbation circle that seems to provide a "safe place" for indulgences...which has it purposes upon distinguishing the planes, as potentiation brings the gross to different realms...

Note that AC sought to overcome the temptations to cocaine with the gross of piles left around the Abby, but that he was not able to extradite his opiate addiction as easily as he might, but did note, and that was the genius of the Diary of a Drug Fiend, that discovering one's higher will might then provide the power that indulgences might be used as a service to the great work rather than that which would destroy.

Yes people died at the Abby, children died, to which "gross negligence" would be a proper cause of action...and it could be understood from a psychoanalytical perspective that shameful acts were basically foils for issues that could not be admitted by AC's or Leah's conscious mind....and thus self punishment and shame...clothed by masonic titles of various degrees of depravities sublime...

It is strange that one of the success to emerge from the Abby was the Jane Wolfe who in the flesh did not rouse AC, but to whom, not distracted perhaps, was able to provide the conditions of practice and retirement that served the her quest in the great work as she was able to recharge her batteries upon those Thalamic quietest practices and observances by the sea, neath the sun and stars!

Love is the law, love under will.

93/93

HG

 


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Michael Staley
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MANIO - it's all in the egg
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

It is unfortunate that you are seemingly being accused in a manner here, relative to certain practices, as you correctly reflect, that Crowley explored at Cefalu, and to which you have noted and at the same time coming to  distinguish your approach, and that further you wish to not get caught in the unfortunate problems that have become a fixation of the press relative to the Abbey.

Who has "seemingly" accused Katrice of anything?


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @michael-staley

Who has "seemingly" accused Katrice of anything?

I was wondering the same thing.


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katrice
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Posted by: @michael-staley

Who has "seemingly" accused Katrice of anything?

 

Definitely not of that.

 

I think maybe they misinterpreted my expressing concerns about people mistaking my intentions regarding transgression, and maybe also my concerns of people misinterpreting my stance on indulgence too, as me responding to accusations.  

 

Which, for clarification, I'd want directed purely towards initiatory work in both cases.     


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katrice
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Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

  further you wish to not get caught in the unfortunate problems that have become a fixation of the press relative to the Abbey.

Frankly I think initiation with such practices can be appreciated as "homeopathic" by which we might come to see through what might be indulgences that go beyond the line such that we come to destroy ourselves, even if it is a mutual masturbation circle that seems to provide a "safe place" for indulgences...which has it purposes upon distinguishing the planes, as potentiation brings the gross to different realms...

It's a risky path, trying to avoid matters like the ones you mention, and things like the risk of addictions too.   

Indulgence has its own place, things like neurosomatic ecstasy make for great fuel for initiatory work, so long as one does not let indulgence become the master, rather than the tool.

What I meant by a safe place was a space where people could pursue these practices without judgement with fellow travelers who truly understand why they are doing it in the first place.  Transgression always carries with it some degree of risk, else it wouldn't truly be transgression. 

But true practice in this area is ultimately about confrontation with the self, transgressing one's own limits in service to the Great Work.  

that discovering one's higher will might then provide the power that indulgences might be used as a service to the great work rather than that which would destroy.

And this right here is one of the significant concepts of the Left Hand Path. 

 


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Tiger
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Best of luck as an outsider navigating the risky New York Underworld initiations of made men who work behind the scenes bound by oaths of secrecy, black mail and accidents, transgressing the limits of law in order to serve the greater purpose.


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christibrany
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Posted by: @katrice

that discovering one's higher will might then provide the power that indulgences might be used as a service to the great work rather than that which would destroy.

And this right here is one of the significant concepts of the Left Hand Path. 

In history and personal life it has been the experience that indulgence always wins in the end (if you die or become debilitated).  Or at least if you are lucky only wins, in the medium-end.

It starts out as a good tool for connecting to Godhead and one's self but then most people cannot simply cut it out.  They become either dead or clingy and have to work to become whole again.  Yes I have learnt a lot along the way, and I regret nothing- but I have lost many things along the way. 

If I could do it all over again I am not sure if I would but I DO realise as an older man now decades and years later and even months later that a lot of it was just well written self justified excuses for pleasure. 

Continue to work on the vehicle, not just the soul. 


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katrice
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I know there are challenges, finding people who are serious to begin with, and the challenges that come with adding sex magick and antinomian work on top of that. And with me being new to the area. And being a woman too. I'll be impressed if I find a half dozen people who fit.

 

Tell me more about this? I don't know about this local underworld. 

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @christibrany
Continue to work on the vehicle, not just the soul. 

I agree with all of this. It is too easy to just find excuses. Self discipline and constant self examination is absolutely necessary to keep on track.those are just hallmarks of the Great Work in general, and even more so in these matters.  I certainly haven't been at it as long as you have but I've learned lessons on the way, and encountered my own pitfalls.

 

And will continue to learn more as I go. 


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christibrany
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Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @christibrany
Continue to work on the vehicle, not just the soul. 

I agree with all of this. It is too easy to just find excuses. Self discipline and constant self examination is absolutely necessary to keep on track.those are just hallmarks of the Great Work in general, and even more so in these matters.  I certainly haven't been at it as long as you have but I've learned lessons on the way, and encountered my own pitfalls.

 

And will continue to learn more as I go. 

If you're lucky!

Crowley died an addict and others died young. 

In hindsight I don't think it's worth the risk. But we all do what we feel is right when we are younger, I guess that's just our path. 


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ignant666
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Another thing to look into in NYC as a person new to the city, that has LHP bits but no sex magick, and that is very big in NYC, is Santeria, and within/next to Santeria proper, the Palo/Reglas folks, who are about as dark/LHP as it is possible to get.

My old pal Chino, a Palero, used to have, and probably still has (we have lost touch with each other), a hundred-year-old African skull that he fed with blood in rituals.

Santeria proper is very big among Latino/a NYPD/Corrections officers, and also among gangsters/drug dealers, as well as generally among Cubans, Puerto Ricans, and to a lesser extent Domincans (who have their own different version, as of course do the Haitians). Palo is much smaller and pretty exclusively male AFAIK but worth knowing about.

Getting initiated into either is quite expensive, like minimum $1000 per initiation, which is why i never did despite knowing many into both practices. You will also have to speak at least minimal Spanish.

Asking Latino/a acquaintances who wear beaded necklaces, and asking at botanicas (Hispanic herb/magick shops) are probably the best ways to find Santeria practitioners.


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @christibrany

Crowley died an addict

Yes, but at age 72, having led a very full life, and having created an astonishing body of work along the way. As an illustration for "don't do it, kids", it doesn't exactly cut the mustard, does it?

 


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christibrany
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Posted by: @michael-staley
Posted by: @christibrany

Crowley died an addict

Yes, but at age 72, having led a very full life, and having created an astonishing body of work along the way. As an illustration for "don't do it, kids", it doesn't exactly cut the mustard, does it?

 

Oh I wasn't meaning to imply that at all.

 

Merely that that is not a nice way to live day in and day out.  Especially after he tried so hard to get clean and I suppose ultimately failed.  One can of course blame the doctor or someone else but it is what it is right?  


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christibrany
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@michael-staley 

 

And furthermore, you can't argue that it is Extremely Rare to create a Great Body of Work such as he did, under such circumstances.  Most people you meet who do what he did end up not creating anything except messes.  It speaks to the wonderful workings of his soul and mind. 


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Michael Staley
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Posted by: @christibrany

And furthermore, you can't argue that it is Extremely Rare to create a Great Body of Work such as he did, under such circumstances.

Did I betray any signs of arguing thus? No; so I don't see why you consider it necessary to make such a caveat. It may be that if Crowley had prioritised living as long as possible until popping his clogs in his comfy slippers, we wouldn't have had such a scintillant and inspiring body of work.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @tiger

made men who work behind the scenes bound by oaths of secrecy, black mail and accidents, transgressing the limits of law in order to serve the greater purpose.

Eeek (again !

This sounds like The Black Lodge.

Posted by: @christibrany

but I have lost many things along the way. 

"Perfection is attained, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -Mr White

Posted by: @christibrany

Crowley died an addict and others died young.

"Many people have died as the result of initiation. -Frater Aquarius

Posted by: @michael-staley

Yes, but at age 72, having led a very full life

But most of his full life was governed or overshadowed by addiction. However, his delving into substances in order to find magical elixirs did not specifically lead to addiction. The docs prescribed both heroin and cocaine for his Asthma. The docs pulled a similar trick on my brother with oxycontin (when it was touted as "non-addictive"). "Going to the Doctor" is also risky.

Posted by: @christibrany

he tried so hard to get clean

This is one point I raise when considering Diary of a Drug Fiend, which I enjoyed immensely. But he winds it up with everybody finding their Will, and thus they have no need of substances. Unfortunately, it doesn't usually seem to work out that way in life.

Posted by: @christibrany

One can of course blame the doctor or someone else but it is what it is right?

That is right, alright. I blame the doctors for AC and my brother, but it was certainly what it was.

 

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @ignant666

 

Asking Latino/a acquaintances who wear beaded necklaces, and asking at botanicas (Hispanic herb/magick shops) are probably the best ways to find Santeria practitioners.

I've been fascinated with Palo for a while now, but hadn't even thought of looking. Thank you for the suggestion.  Even if the odds of actual initiation are probably nil for a gringa like me. 

I am familiar with botanicas, and with collares as well.

I do think, though, that Aghoris could give Paleros some competition for being dark/LHP


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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As to Aghoris v. Paleros, and "darkness": None of the Palo dudes i used to hang with would ever dream of eating a poo, nor would any aghori that ever smoked my whole chillum in one hit when i was a teenage nomad in India ever dream of killing living humans.

Paleros are much cleaner, but far more sinister in both the exoteric and esoteric senses of the word, as a sociological matter. All the heavy ones i ever met were retired gangsters/heroin dealers, one of them so psychic i imagine no one ever stole from him.

Both like to dig up graves, and do stuff with what they dig up.

"Different strokes for different folks", aka you takes your darkness where you finds it, i guess.


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katrice
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Posted by: @christibrany
 

If you're lucky!

Crowley died an addict and others died young. 

In hindsight I don't think it's worth the risk. But we all do what we feel is right when we are younger, I guess that's just our path. 

If I'm unlucky at least maybe my life can serve as a warning to others about what not to do. 😉  

I feel called to do this, it's not just something I decided to do because I thought it would be cool.That said, avoiding extremely addictive substances like heroin and cocaine is just common sense for me. Proper use of indulgence in initiatory practice involves the indulgence serving as the tool and not letting it become the master.  

I admit to having used other substances on occasion, to ultimately good, if not always initially pleasant, effect.   

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice

I've been fascinated with Palo for a while now, but hadn't even thought of looking. Thank you for the suggestion.  Even if the odds of actual initiation are probably nil for a gringa like me. 

I am familiar with botanicas, and with collares as well.

I do think, though, that Aghoris could give Paleros some competition for being dark/LHP

'LHP'?

 

This guy has apparently become an internet sensation in the LHP scene;

 

How To Perform Black Magick To Get The Life You Want - YouTube

E.A. Koetting - YouTube

 

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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