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katrice
(@katrice)
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

 

This guy has apparently become an internet sensation in the LHP scene;

 

Mainly as a laughingstock.  


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

Mainly as a laughingstock.  

"Abadon - The Opening of the Eye!"
- from the IV* TOT, and highlighted (as the god of destruction) in this fellow's video

I am impressed by the "temple" in the background. It reminded me of ...

"The basement in the Mansion had been taken over by the Mansion's "manager," a young, outspoken lesbian who had been an initiate of the (U.S.) Golden Dawn, but who now was into Wicca or some similar spirit-nature work.

The basement, paneled and nicely furnished, was her temple. Filled with stuffed animals, animal skulls, feathers, sticks, powders, and an assortment of sorcerer-type implements, I found it to be somewhat creepy. The psychic atmosphere, the vibration, was pretty bad ... Refusing to do any work in a place as tarnished as this, I started by performing a Banishing Ritual. This produced interesting results the next day.

[Redacted/Deleted as non-suitable to the topic of creepy temples].

The next day, our lesbian manager went ballistic. Not for any particular reason (only we knew that a Banishing had taken place). She threw fits, screamed at everyone for just being alive, and then quit! By the end of the week all her sorcery implements had been removed and the basement was just a nice, quiet room."

- Outside Solar Lodge - Inside the Law

His place has that same creepy vibe.

I hope I haven't insulted anyone here who has a creepy temple. If I have insulted your adobe abode, and your temple creeps, you probably need to do a banishing, and knock off the in/evocation of those dark fellows. Thoth alone will do the trick.


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hadgigegenraum
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Of course one could just go up to the Council on Foreign Relations and make an application if one wants to get involved in deep dark murder snuff or perhaps a job at the New York Times and other purveyors of mass murder...there are lots of gangs in New York...been going on a long time since Babylon, or as Jim Morrison sang "same old city"...and of course we have the child molestation gangs through churches and synagogs....

Perhaps the real fucking daring thing to do is to actually live a virtuous life, why perhaps the greater dare would be to explore the Right Hand Path rather than poser bullshit that is just the run of the mill armored neurotic living dead who don't feel a thing so they need stronger and stronger thrills and numbing agents...(and don't anyone take this personally )

And all the city does is eat poo, worship piles of poo, count poor, polish poo, hubby hubby poo, push the world into fetishistic madness, of sadistic and masochistic poo games, dressed in poo, Wall Street Poo, Dimon Poo, Trumpy Poo, Schumer Poo, up town poo, down town poo, borough poo all the diarrhea  of one of the most narcissistic places on the planet, drunk smack conceited....and frankly what happened to the books stores, Enchantments was no big deal back when I visited years ago, the Magical Child was one step up from a peep show hole smelling of ammonia, Weiser's was respectable, but frankly a desert devoid in the full embrace of rentier time values as second hole to London's Saturn meridian serving the IBM Nazi's run by the Corona Queen for the full panopticon  of the genocide  five eyes snuff set of respectable left hand path country clubs and few will fight because the professional soldiers are getting their cervixes tattooed while blowing someone playing Russian roulette....gee where does the cool dark side crowd  bury the baby?...well in full daylight of course, why planned parenthood takes care of that..for a huge poo profit...

No we do not need more victims to be some sort of example, the dead go quick, people age 40 years  in a few months...I have seen it too many times...nothing heroic, what is heroic is to actually have and create a loving family where support is given, despite all of the succumbing to moral compromise is the celebrated worm, "bite the big apple" and the 19 Arab Hijackers ruse is swallowed full on masonic death religion hidden hand freedom tower poo palace

Anyways since this website is about Aleister Crowley maybe there are certain rents in the astral fabrics why who knows maybe Samuel Ben Aiwass will send an e-mail with notes relative to picking up again on the Amalanthra working and issues relative to the egg, and why perhaps the Dead Soul Tryptic will show up, having sat in a mysteriously untouched apartment, since  1919, resplendent furnished immaculate with a round table in the middle of a drawing room sitting on a fantastic carpet and there bearing a crystal shew stone, while a peculiar incense wafts as though just lit brings the dream into focus as a breeze envelops into a gale and a galloping begins as upon a journey where lysergic like lace the curtains cascade sprinkles of light trapped  from the aeons and released as the messages can be read once again, connected to nexuses around the globe through vales of space transcended by the flying like , carpet, without a poo in sight or smell, just an envelopment of wonder whose filagrees gently with to a breathing that spark of speech emerge as the vision clears...

but such can happen when pacing the pavements for blocks and blocks, no taxi, no bus just on and on through and through and it all falls away as it must when one's strides take one all across the city till the point of getting lost in one's head from all that is all of so much stimuli and then one might find oneself arcing a  path that finds one at a spot, a spot that is a spot that could be the very spot and it is a spot that suddenly glows as a cloud passes and a shadow intersects and looking up an obelisk and one is Egypt ancient answering

And one leaves as the journey takes one into neighborhoods unknown like past lives coming to life and they too disappear and one is back in a cold flat with a trunk and typewriter, with a page inserted and one begins to read and the cadences are of AC's and it starts typing and one gets scared and a call for prayer comes forth and like never before and an answer is received as like some angel an envelope of protection pours peace, but the spontaneous prayer begets ever more as the moment becomes and encounter and then a grey cat scampers and light bell sound draws one's attention like a lover and that then brings an incredible longing and the table starts to rock as though in a cheap restaurant that requires a folded napkin under the foot to make everything balanced.

And suddenly a feeling of compassion comes to the fore, a compassion like never before that cuts through walls to souls riding subways, caught in stores, weaving a bicycle and so many souls and the room has disappeared as has the tryptic Dead Souls gone, but on the napkin of a quality that invited doodles is found sigils and words and a tear comes into one''s being beaming as the ocean roars feeling it floating and deep in the see the poo oozes off into the deep cliffs enveloped in quite as planes take off and land and a compassion wells up once again which used to be a cynical laugh and now no more, there is a coffee begging a sip and that's it...the feelings of compassion recede 

and you find the sheets on the bed like an archetype of a comfort, and you realize the addiction had broken...flown away never more, its morning and your staring at an egg!

 

 


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katrice
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Topic starter  

Nobody said anything about being devoid of compassion or virtue, though I do agree that acting with those inn mind can certainly qualify in and of itself as antinomian practice.  The only groups I know of that claims to be LHP who seek to actively harm people while claiming it to be part of their beliefs are the O9A and their imitators.

And needing "stronger and stronger thrills and numbing agents" is precisely what I seek to avoid in the type of practice I'm talking about.  I'm looking for transgressive confrontation with the self for one part, and using indulgence as fuel for initiatory work, without allowing it to become one's master or falling in to the trap of using practice as an excuse for it,  on the other.

And avoiding becoming like Koetting and funding a meth habit with the sale of overpriced books that contain nothing that can't easily be found elsewhere. 

 


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Tiger
(@tiger)
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They say if you want to taste the seedy grimy stuff go to the Bronx
but its not true if you want the real transgressive shit its down town
where the Don tata’s broker the Nsi a Bafwa, control the Nkisi and harness the inequality of power exchange.

in the Zone of dominance bondage and submission,
in the playspace of trafficking in whirling pools of Risk Aware Consensual infractions and transgressive energy,the game of exchanges that are not mutually beneficial, but benefit the mountebank at the expense of their victims the marks goes on.

In the realm of frameups, setups, traps, blackmail, ensnarements, clandestine activity, covert operations, Algolagnia, Biastophilia; accidents and mishaps happen. Insurance protection firms, coverups and cleanup protocols need to be in place, involving significant degrees of deception, to conceal who is behind the scene and to make it appear that some other entity is responsible. A Plausible deniability program needs to be in place.

Cups and balls conjuring tricks hustling shills, plants and stooges, levels and layers upon layers of manipulation envelop the hostages, victims with Stockholm syndrome who bond,sympathize, develop positive feelings toward their captors and begin to feel as if they share common goals and causes with their abusers.

The too big to Jail are bailed the purchasing power of savings is stolen and the victims all cheer on believing the market and themselves free.

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

 

This guy has apparently become an internet sensation in the LHP scene;

 

Mainly as a laughingstock.  

Oh.  According to you?  You're familiar with every subject he's ever done a video on and have compared contrasted it with more sophisticated teachers?  

Yep he's an ex drug addict. I don't necessarily have a problem with drug addicts who teach magic.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Oh.  According to you?  You're familiar with every subject he's ever done a video on and have compared contrasted it with more sophisticated teachers?  

Yep he's an ex drug addict. I don't necessarily have a problem with drug addicts who teach magic.

According to most everyone I know who knows of him too.  You are literally the first person I've seen defend him outside of his own spaces. 

 

I've read a number of his books and watched a lot of his videos, though I admit I haven't watched anything of his since late 2019.  I've yet to see anything remarkable about him, or see him bring anything new to the table. Nothing to live up to the hyperbole or the pricing. I wouldn't call him a charlatan or anything lime that, though. He clearly draws from legitimate sources. And I can respect his making money doing something he loves. I just find the aforementioned qualities extremely off putting. 

 

I admit the meth comment was out of line and I'm sorry that I typed it. I let my disdain for the man carry me away and that was a mistake.  Obviously if I had a problem with drug addicts teaching magick I wouldn't have any interest in Crowley. 

 

But that's just my opinion, and that of many others I know. If he inspires you, he inspires you. 


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christibrany
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Posted by: @katrice

But that's just my opinion, and that of many others I know. If he inspires you, he inspires you. 

I saw that video and I couldn't hold back laughing.

 

He seems like he is consciously trying not to smile in everyone of his videos.  Grimscribe.  

It's (to my mind) very child-like Goth'y kind of pose.  

 

LOOK HOW GRIM I AM FILMIN IN MY BASEMENT

 

I agree he is fairly erudite and knows his stuff but I think his heart is in the wrong place.

Maybe in the knee? 

 

My wife who is not an occultist at all also was just saying 'wow...he seems like a poser'

I said he wasn't a poser, he was just um...too fixated on darkness for darkness sake.

 

Just watch Star Wars after all 😉 

 

I think we need a healthy balance.  I wouldn't call myself LHP or RHP, I am a former (mostly) LHP now yellow mage by crowleys standards, or a grey mage by I believe Tolkien's standards, though to call myself a mage at all is pushing it.  So much to learn so much to assimilate.   IE in the middle.  

 

@hadgigegenraum

I liked your random screed even if I didn't agree with it all.  You should do a bukowski-esque book of some sort. Just leave the politics out of it.

I for one am over all that.  It's worse now than ever. 

Also, what's with the repetition about poo?

Are you of the Pro-Coprophagic League? 


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Jamie J Barter
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"This is one point I raise when considering Diary of a Drug Fiend, which I enjoyed immensely. But he winds it up with everybody finding their Will, and thus they have no need of substances."
... and so they all lived happily ever after. [?]

"Unfortunately, it doesn't usually seem to work out that way in life."
- Indeed so. (sigh!)

Greetings to Katrice,
Norma N Joy Conquest


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christibrany
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To add, humour is not only extremely important in life it is extremely important in occultism.  If you take yourself too seriously like this guy seems to, I think you are doomed to failure.  The universe laughs and plays.

Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? 

Sometimes. Make use of it? 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

According to most everyone I know who knows of him too.  You are literally the first person I've seen defend him outside of his own spaces. 

David-Dom has his heroes: Wilson #1 and #2, Timothy Leary, et al. Sometimes other people (like you and me, et al) agree with his choices. and sometimes not.

In this particular instance, I'd say "not" on my part. This guy is "teaching" how to "get anything you want," which is that Olde Black Magic that we know so well.

Posted by: @katrice

Nothing to live up to the hyperbole or the pricing.

What? I missed the "pricing" part. Does he charge money (or goods) for teaching or doing?

Posted by: @christibrany

I for one am over all that.  It's worse now than ever. 

Now that (I agree) it's worser than everer, and you are over it all, please give a hint as to your present status ... because I was over all that in 1965, and today it's hard to stay apolitical because the politicals are threatening my survival.

 


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christibrany
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Posted by: @shiva

Now that (I agree) it's worser than everer, and you are over it all, please give a hint as to your present status ... because I was over all that in 1965, and today it's hard to stay apolitical because the politicals are threatening my survival.

If you wanna get nit picky I moved from Republican to Unaffiliated because I saw some stupid scheisst on both sides. Just get me off this rock.  I mean I am still fairly conservative (centre right to centre), but I can't see myself aligning with any party at this point so I am over it all.  I just read it all and laugh or just throw it out of my head. pop . They all corrupt yo 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @christibrany

If you wanna get nit picky I moved from Republican to Unaffiliated because I saw some stupid scheisst on both sides.

I'm not nitting. You said "I am over all that," and I doubt it ... because I am as apolitical as anyone can be (for decades), but I am unable to "get over it" due to the atrocities now being preformed and performed. None of us is "over" anything while still chained to this rock.

Posted by: @christibrany

Just get me off this rock.

Right. This is the so=called Path of Liberation.

Posted by: @christibrany

I can't see myself aligning with any party at this point so I am over it all.

Oh, I wasn't referring to political affiliations. I meant "concern for societal chaos" (without reference to any particular gang or side, because they are all corrupt). Nobody is over that, while still rock-bound.


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christibrany
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Posted by: @shiva

Oh, I wasn't referring to political affiliations. I meant "concern for societal chaos" (without reference to any particular gang or side, because they are all corrupt). Nobody is over that, while still rock-bound.

Yessir we on same page yes. 

Stock up on that ammo. 

Just in case. 

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @christibrany

To add, humour is not only extremely important in life it is extremely important in occultism.  If you take yourself too seriously like this guy seems to, I think you are doomed to failure.  The universe laughs and plays.

Is there not joy ineffable in this aimless winging? 

Sometimes. Make use of it? 

I agree in full, humour helps one to keep perspective, and just helps to keep life in perspective in general. 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

What? I missed the "pricing" part. Does he charge money (or goods) for teaching or doing?

Here are some examples

https://www.becomealivinggod.com/books/

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @christibrany

I saw that video and I couldn't hold back laughing.

 

He seems like he is consciously trying not to smile in everyone of his videos.  Grimscribe.  

It's (to my mind) very child-like Goth'y kind of pose.  

 

LOOK HOW GRIM I AM FILMIN IN MY BASEMENT

 

I agree he is fairly erudite and knows his stuff but I think his heart is in the wrong place.

Maybe in the knee? 

 

My wife who is not an occultist at all also was just saying 'wow...he seems like a poser'

I said he wasn't a poser, he was just um...too fixated on darkness for darkness sake.

Exactly!  I agree that he is fairly erudite and that he knows his stuff, but the posturing, the hyperbole, it just makes him come off as laughable.  I confess this would have totally worked on me when I was 16 and just starting out in magick. Now, I just have to keep from laughing out loud, and I like things dark and Gothy.  

 

"Maybe in the knee? " was good.  


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katrice
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Posted by: @jamiejbarter

"This is one point I raise when considering Diary of a Drug Fiend, which I enjoyed immensely. But he winds it up with everybody finding their Will, and thus they have no need of substances."
... and so they all lived happily ever after. [?]

"Unfortunately, it doesn't usually seem to work out that way in life."
- Indeed so. (sigh!)

Greetings to Katrice,
Norma N Joy Conquest

 

Substances have their place, I mentioned that I've experimented with psychedelics before.  I just have issues with the use of substances known to be highly physically addictive, which can become their users' master rather than a tool.  Too much risk and what do things like heroin or cocaine provide in terms of initiatory use?  

 

Greetings to you as well!


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Shiva
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Posted by: @christibrany

Stock up on that ammo. 

It's been a long-standing, dark-humor joke, but I actually counted the bullets ...

1137 .22 cartridges.
195  .38 special.
74   .357 magnum.
22   20-gauge shotshells.

That's not very impressive, but I can't "stock up," because there's no ammo, primers, or gundpowder available. Hasn't been any for months. When you hear of some, please let me know.

Posted by: @katrice

Here are some examples

The prices for these questionable books don't seem outrageously high, but I cannot assess their production or retail worth because the blurbs don't mention how many pages are included, or whether B&W or color is on the pages, or how cool the leather editions are.

PS - Please note that you have just posted 4 posts in a row. This is specifically prohibited in The Scriptures Guidelines. To avoid discipline from the Overlords Moderator, one needs to reply to multiple posters by including them all in one post. Realistically, nobody usually minds a double post. Triple posts are cereal serial, and one is pushing toward future trouble. When four appear, I usually put out the reminder.

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @shiva

What? I missed the "pricing" part. Does he charge money (or goods) for teaching or doing?

Here are some examples

https://www.becomealivinggod.com/books/

 

Only a gullible teen would actually buy his products imo.  He does a lot of free videos and lectures on YouTube I never said go and buy his products.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @katrice

According to most everyone I know who knows of him too.  You are literally the first person I've seen defend him outside of his own spaces. 

David-Dom has his heroes: Wilson #1 and #2, Timothy Leary, et al. Sometimes other people (like you and me, et al) agree with his choices. and sometimes not.

 

 

That sounds disrespectful towards me.   Do I have to hit the Report button?  Those aforementioned are not my "heroes".  Leary and RAW had their flaws as did Colin Wilson with regards to his explanations about Geller and related subjects.  Imo anyway.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

I never said go and buy his products.  

Indeed you did not.  I brought up the matter as one of my issues with him.  For the record, the books of his that I read were lent to me by a former magickal partner.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

That sounds disrespectful towards me.   Do I have to hit the Report button?

I made a statement of truth - based on years of posts in which you have been kidded by several members. Your case about "disrespect" is rather weak. You may hit the button any time ... I think that would be like a "frivolous lawsuit."

Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Those aforementioned are not my "heroes".

But this is the (heroic) light that has been brought up again and again. There's no need to get kranky about it. I, for example, have my heroes: Mister White, U.K. Krishnamurti, both Leary and Wilson, Robert Anton, et al. Feel free to heckle me when I post quotes from these "heroic" folks.

Posted by: @katrice

the books of his that I read were lent to me by a former magickal partner.

If possible, please recount (and post) the approximate typical number of pages in his books, and were they in full-color ink or just black on white ... if you can do this, then I can offer a professional opinion on whether (or not) he is overcharging (i.e., "making an absurd profit").

You are correct. Nobody said anything (here) about actually buying his books. We simply took a side trip (on-topic, more or less) into the dark alley in order to assess his motive(s), profit margin, and laughability.

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

That sounds disrespectful towards me.   Do I have to hit the Report button?

I made a statement of truth - based on years of posts in which you have been kidded by several members.

I'm not one for digging up people's past.

 

Anyway OT ;

Posted by: @katrice

93,

 

I'm looking for people in the NYC area who are serious about A:.A:. Work and Sex Magick, and also open to Working with initiates who follow the Left Hand Path.   I'm looking to connect with like-minded people willing to work together as a study and practice group. 

 

93/93

'Group work'.  How's that work then?  What does it entail?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

 

'Group work'.  How's that work then?  What does it entail?

I did not use the phrase "group work", nor does it appear anywhere else in this thread. A group that can meet and network like a study group that would also facilitate the formation of magickal partnerships between members inclined to such things. Mutual support on multiple levels geared towards aiding each others initiatory work in a respectful space where everyone can be unafraid to express their ideas.  

 

Posted by: @shiva

If possible, please recount (and post) the approximate typical number of pages in his books, and were they in full-color ink or just black on white ... if you can do this, then I can offer a professional opinion on whether (or not) he is overcharging (i.e., "making an absurd profit").

It's been a while but I believe around 250 to 300 pages average?  I don't recall any color.  They might be worth the price in terms of production value, like collector's items, but I was also taking content in to account. If you want a pretty book you may want to pay that much. If you want an instructive book, most other books on similar topics are much more affordable. You could get similar material from Michael Ford, for example, without the price take of a couple hundred dollars and without the hyperbole. Some of Andrew Chumbley's books cost a similar amount but he included things like handmade talismans in the construction too. 

I will admit that Koetting's classes seem to cost no more that Jason Miller's, though.  


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

around 250 to 300 pages average?

Let's say 300 pages. 

Standard retail prices for B&W Hardcover with short print runs should retail cost about $55, which is a long way south of $79. I base this on the prices assigned by Weiser Antiquarian. It didn't matter whether they (Weiser/Teitan} printed it ($45 in 2007, now trending around $200 out-of-print), or Lulu printed it ($55 per book, whether 91 pages [City of the Sun] or 328 pages [Inside Solar Lodge] ...

The leather editions at $179 would not be out-of-line IF they were highest class bindings (which cost $180 per book), so I suspect leather is actually used, but the quality cannot be the (highest quality) kind I'm thinking of. I had a I Ching bound in leather for $80; nothing special, not particularly stable. Anyway, the roughly-calculated math says he has a very comfortable profit margin.

However, anybody can charge whatever they want/will, for anything. So who m I to begrudge him an extra $25 profit per book.

What concerns me is whether he invokes prior to evoking? Do you know? If yes, who does he invoke?


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kidneyhawk
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Shiva,

You may find this link of interest in light of your questions:

http://balkansarcanebindings.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-book-of-azazel-grimoire-of-damned.html

Please note, I'm adding this to the thread without any recommendation, condemnation etc.

I thought you might find Balkan's assessment interesting. In a nutshell, he regards this edition highly and asks the question in the comments section:

"Should we judge books (or art in general) by the conduct or personality of the writer/artist? Or should we separate the two? Should a book be judged on its own merit?"

I do tend, myself, to echo Balkan's sentiment, which is, simply: "Truthfully, I can appreciate both sides of the argument."

It's a question we've certainly applied to the works of Aleister Crowley once or twice on these hallowed forums.

And welcome aboard to Katrice from myself. 🙂

 

 


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

You may find this link of interest

Red & Black ink raises the auntie. At Lulu, this would constitute "full-color," but Lulu is obviously not being used.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

"Should we judge books (or art in general) by the conduct or personality of the writer/artist? Or should we separate the two?

No, and Yes, respectively. . Most folks here recognize the difference between Frater Perdurabo and the Imp Crowley; we do the practices and ignore (or laugh at) the Imp's follies ... mainly because we have our own follies to deal with.

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Should a book be judged on its own merit?

Of course. It was an examination of the profit margin. I am in no position to judge anything in the book because I have not read it. The book's contents have not been assessed. The author was under scrutiny.

I am awaiting any reply as to whether he invokes before evoking, and if so, who? That will provide insight into what he is doing.

 

 


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katrice
(@katrice)
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Shiva,

You may find this link of interest in light of your questions:

http://balkansarcanebindings.blogspot.com/2013/11/the-book-of-azazel-grimoire-of-damned.html

"Should we judge books (or art in general) by the conduct or personality of the writer/artist? Or should we separate the two? Should a book be judged on its own merit?"

I do tend, myself, to echo Balkan's sentiment, which is, simply: "Truthfully, I can appreciate both sides of the argument."

It's a question we've certainly applied to the works of Aleister Crowley once or twice on these hallowed forums.

And welcome aboard to Katrice from myself. 🙂

 

 

Thank you!   It's nice to be here.  

To give credit where due, I'll admit that one looks impressive. I'd never seen it before.  I like the invisible ink idea!    I suppose the value of the books themselves makes them worth it, like collector's editions. I just have issues with the price in terms of content.

I do agree that we shouldn't judge the value of the work by the conduct and personality of the writer/artist, and that it definitely applies to Crowley as well.  I mentioned earlier that I have little doubt as to Koetting's legitimacy as a practitioner.

 

Posted by: @shiva

What concerns me is whether he invokes prior to evoking? Do you know? If yes, who does he invoke?

You can watch him do evocation here:

 
and thank you for the reminder about multiple comments.  I forgot to mention that before. Sorry for doing that and for forgetting to thank you. 
 
 

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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

You can watch him do evocation here:

Um, we have a little problem here. You see, I am soon to be 82, having survived the 9 cycles of 9 years, which puts me out of the cycles but not the years. Along the way I lost most of my hearing and a good deal of my sight, so I rarely go to yourtub any more. Nonetheless, I followed your link, hoping the CC would be working. What did I get?

A fucking commercial. So I sat through that (2:35 or so). Followed by another commercial. I saw that it was either the same commercial or a new one, so I quit at that point. It's a simple question: Does he invoke first? The answer will determine which side he's on. From the little bit I read in the linked book review, he's cool. But invocation has not been settled or revealed (all I see is demons, so far), so ...


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @shiva

A fucking commercial

Was that a commercial before his video? Or was the video itself a commercial?

I've watched a couple of his vids....and they WERE commercials. They were like infomercials for some sort of occult Slapchop or Shamwow.

But then I've also noticed a painful increase in commercial material before I can access most youtube vids these days.

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

From the little bit I read in the linked book review, he's cool. But invocation has not been settled or revealed (all I see is demons, so far), so ...

I'm sorry, I was not aware of how un-useful a video would be for you.  I just wanted to give you a direct example rather than just my word.  To answer your question more directly, I haven't seen him invoke anything in the sense of using the Bornless as the preliminary invocation prior to evocation or anything similar.   


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

I haven't seen him invoke anything in the sense of using the Bornless as the preliminary invocation prior to evocation or anything similar. 

This unfortunately is what I suspected. He may be a Practitioner, but he's what we call a Sorcerer. But then this thread has touched on the LHP, so I suppose he's a good example.


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

This unfortunately is what I suspected. He may be a Practitioner, but he's what we call a Sorcerer. But then this thread has touched on the LHP, so I suppose he's a good example.

Some do seem to work purely from ego, others will at least invoke the HGA by whatever term they use for it.  Michael Ford's approach to Goetia, for example, and some streams of the Path focus on what they call Daemonic Integration. Rituals like the Bornless are popular among many. Self Deification does not necessarily refer to deification of the ego.    

But in this case, I haven't seen anything like that. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Was that a commercial before his video?

Yes. Apparently two of them. YouTube did the big switcheroo. First (a long while ago), anyone could upload anything. Second, commercials were added ... but they always had a "SKIP ADS" button. Now, anything vulnerable (including several of my own videos) has one or two ads in frint of it. I saw one ad, somewhere, than ran 30 minutes.

However, anyone can skip the ads by PAYING MONEY. Go figure what they have done. I now have decided to move, or at least duplicate, all my videos over at the higher-class Vimeo. This transposition is on my "to do" list, but "when" remains a mystery.

Posted by: @katrice

I just wanted to give you a direct example ...

Right. So I went back, clicked on the link, started the video, then walked away for a few minutes. When I came back, it was right at the point where the commercials stopped and the video started. I then skipped (perused) around and saw some interesting things, and with the CC on, I could read what he was saying.

First, we have a relatively normal person ...

d3

He describes the process as a "spiritually, psychically, emotionally draining." To me, this doesn't sound like the proper end-result of a practice.

One can see him, ready to go (evoke), inside the circle ...

d1

Once he gets going, his features change ...

d2

As he said, his exhaustion is evident as he proceeds.

In that book KH linked, he says "we are gods, struggling to become humans." Okay. But then he says we must establish dominion over the material plane [my paraphrase]. This is the opposite of attaining Liberation from the material plane. I guess that's the difference between the LHP and the RHP?

Additionally (in the video), he says, "You are your own authority." Aha! He does not invoke a god, or an angel, or any "higher" being. He takes on the demon with nothing more than his own "magician" authority. This is Crowley's (and my) definition of a Sorcerer.

Crowley suggested that a Sorcerer is "one who performs magic, but has no idea of what he is doing" [again, my paraphrase]. He also states that, sooner or later, he will come to his senses and get with the Great Work.

My bottom line impression: Outer Order work by a skilled Sorcerer.

 

 

 


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ignant666
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With a really tiny magick circle- why?


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Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

With a really tiny magick circle- why?

There are images of witches/magicians employing these little circles ...

image

I've seen them many times, and I came to the conclusion that some folks employ a tradition that favors circles that are about 2 feet in diameter. This could be said to represent protection at the astral (aura) level.

Crowley's 11-foot (in diameter) can be said to represent the causal body (Tiphareth). So I am saying these things ... as a publick service.

I will also say that, in the video, this fellow is channeling a demon (without reference to anything "higher."

I also (today) received an email from someone who is following this thread, and who has also (loosely) followed our subject. He wrote ...

"As for Koetting. The last I heard he’d proclaimed himself
ipsissimus of the A.'.A.'. as well as a living god ..."

Oh well, that does it!  The last straw has been grasped and revealed. Since the A.'.A.'. specifically prohibits one announcing themselves as an Ip, he cannot be "an ipsissimus of the A.'.A.'.. There are a couple other guys claiming the same, and thus they fall short of demon-strating that they "have no Will in any direction."

As for being a "living god," this falls under his concept that we are all gods struggling to become humans," so we can let that one slide.

Actually, I'm ready to let this whole matter slide, with a return to Katrice looking for cohorts (not necessarily consorts) in the greater NYC area. Nobody has has yet offered up a suggestion to meet (her) or even move offsite to discuss the matter further. 

But she has hung in here, exchanging concepts, and not displaying tinges or fringes of overt insanity. I have established a few offsite relationships that sprung from LAShTAL, but it took a few years for those to develop. I would advise you, Katrice, to keep looking in all places, and to maintain your presence here - you/we never know what will come up (over time).

image

Another small circle                              

 


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ignant666
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Posted by: @shiva

not displaying tinges or fringes of overt insanity.

Note the very low bar we set for acceptance around here. Nonetheless, some fail.


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

First, we have a relatively normal person ...

He describes the process as a "spiritually, psychically, emotionally draining." To me, this doesn't sound like the proper end-result of a practice.Once he gets going, his features change ...

In that book KH linked, he says "we are gods, struggling to become humans." Okay. But then he says we must establish dominion over the material plane [my paraphrase]. This is the opposite of attaining Liberation from the material plane. I guess that's the difference between the LHP and the RHP?

Additionally (in the video), he says, "You are your own authority." Aha! He does not invoke a god, or an angel, or any "higher" being. He takes on the demon with nothing more than his own "magician" authority. This is Crowley's (and my) definition of a Sorcerer.

Crowley suggested that a Sorcerer is "one who performs magic, but has no idea of what he is doing" [again, my paraphrase]. He also states that, sooner or later, he will come to his senses and get with the Great Work.

My bottom line impression: Outer Order work by a skilled Sorcerer.

 

I've had my shared of draining practices, including ones that have left my physically exhausted, but what he does here should not leave him that taxed.

Liberation, for me, is a cornerstone of LHP practice.  I have no issues with establishing some control on the material plane, I consider having a well-ordered life a great base for practice, freeing up time and energy to focus on initiatory pursuits.  But that itself can be a form of liberation if pursued without attachment

 

"Outer Order work by a skilled Sorcerer." does sound appropriate.  Ironically, his "Become a Living God" idea doesn't focus much on things that would facilitate that happening, that is, actual initiatory Work. He focused on what is sometimes called the Immanent branch of the path, which focuses mostly on the material, as opposed to the Transcendent branch, which focuses on initiation, which is what I follow.    

Posted by: @ignant666

With a really tiny magick circle- why?

I had wondered that myself.  

 


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @ignant666

a really tiny magick circle- why?

Product promotion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfkbdIY0YOs

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @kidneyhawk

Product promotion

If the circle product is a for-sale item, I wonder what happened to "The Labor of Prepation" and "Do it yerself?"


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ignant666
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OMFG as the kids say. A different tiny circle than the one in the other video, but perhaps they are available in several versions. And they come "pre-charged".

What do we think can be wrong with that poor man's face that he has to wear those metal chin-clamp things? Some sort of war injury no doubt.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @ignant666

A different tiny circle than the one in the other video, but perhaps they are available in several versions.

The one in the "other video" is available on this page, right underneath the "slut water."

https://www.becomealivinggod.com/magick-circles/

 


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ignant666
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This guy sells a "Universal Circle" (only $197), and then two other circles. Which might cause prospective buyers with even a modicum of critical thinking ability to say "huh?"

The "Slut Water" is indeed available. It is $79 (for how much they do not say), and appears to be the bathwater of a woman who wears red underwear when bathing. We are warned not to ingest it; perhaps she does not bathe often.

I just had no idea that such things were available. Certain sayings about the velocity of departure of a fool's money come to mind.


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kidneyhawk
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Posted by: @ignant666

This guy sells a "Universal Circle" (only $197), and then two other circles. Which might cause prospective buyers with even a modicum of critical thinking ability to say "huh?"

We're told that the Universal Circle does it all. Demons, Djinn, whatever you need, man. So yeah...why invest money in anything else? Except, perhaps, an ironing board. 😉


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

"As for Koetting. The last I heard he’d proclaimed himself
ipsissimus of the A.'.A.'. as well as a living god ..."

Oh well, that does it!  The last straw has been grasped and revealed. Since the A.'.A.'. specifically prohibits one announcing themselves as an Ip, he cannot be "an ipsissimus of the A.'.A.'.. There are a couple other guys claiming the same, and thus they fall short of demon-strating that they "have no Will in any direction."

Actually, I'm ready to let this whole matter slide, with a return to Katrice looking for cohorts (not necessarily consorts) in the greater NYC area. Nobody has has yet offered up a suggestion to meet (her) or even move offsite to discuss the matter further. 

But she has hung in here, exchanging concepts, and not displaying tinges or fringes of overt insanity. I have established a few offsite relationships that sprung from LAShTAL, but it took a few years for those to develop. I would advise you, Katrice, to keep looking in all places, and to maintain your presence here - you/we never know what will come up (over time).

I didn't know about the Ipissimus claim!  Wow...I'm having trouble finding words for that.  Or maybe just picking one thing out of dozens of things I could say, none of them complimentary towards him,

 

Thank you!  Definitely cohorts, and not necessarily consorts.  It is saddening that I still haven't gotten any responses here, but I'm at least enjoying the discussion!  I do plan to keep looking, there have to be people out there somewhere!  I will maintain my presence here too.   Thank for for the words about  "not displaying tinges or fringes of overt insanity."   I like to think I'm at least comparatively sane, all things considered.  

 

Posted by: @ignant666

Note the very low bar we set for acceptance around here. Nonetheless, some fail.

Par for the course for the magickal forums I've seen.  Sad that some really do fail at clearing that very low bar.

 

Posted by: @shiva

If the circle product is a for-sale item, I wonder what happened to "The Labor of Prepation" and "Do it yerself?"

I've seen others selling similar things.  I always thought that part of the point was making it yourself.  

 

Posted by: @kidneyhawk

The one in the "other video" is available on this page, right underneath the "slut water."

 

 "Slut Water" is the best phrase I've read all day!  

 

I just looked at the "Ritual For Hire" page and saw that I can be initiated in to sex magick for just $999!  But that's a lot more than my first "initiation" in to sex magick, at least monetarily. It did cost me my dignity for a while, and all I really got out of it was how to do a Star Ruby. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

I do plan to keep looking, there have to be people out there somewhere!

One could make an appropriate talisman, put it through some appropriate ceremony, and burn it.

Posted by: @katrice

I always thought that part of the point was making it yourself.  

Congratulations. You passed that bar without any effort. 

NOTE: A key phrase around here is wu wei ("not doing," "doing without effort," "etc"). Some of use it (the term) because we've done it (wu wei), and we know it's the way to go, if one can just get it to go. "Pure will unassuaged of purpose." "Thus man is only himself when lost in the charioting." "Women too." - Those kind(s) of things are all summed up in wu wei, and the Orientals are pretty good at explaining it. But books won't do it - one must experience it, and there's no "practice"for getting in the groove.

Anyway, Sorcerers at the Probationary Level (SPL) and Outer Order Sorcerers (OOS) sometimes like to make circles, talismans, sigils, and wands - to sell for commercial purposes and profit. There's nothing legally wrong with this, but one is supposed to make everything themselves. 

Sure, it's hard to avoid the hardware store and the fabric department, but the closer to making anything from scratch (the basic elements), the better the vibe and the potency.

Posted by: @katrice

I just looked at the "Ritual For Hire" page and saw that I can be initiated in to sex magick for just $999! 

What a bargain.

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @shiva

From the little bit I read in the linked book review, he's cool. But invocation has not been settled or revealed (all I see is demons, so far), so ...

I'm sorry, I was not aware of how un-useful a video would be for you.  I just wanted to give you a direct example rather than just my word.  To answer your question more directly, I haven't seen him invoke anything in the sense of using the Bornless as the preliminary invocation prior to evocation or anything similar.   

Yes it appears that he and his entourage are not into the HGA and they seem to think that 'Goetia Demons" etc are the means to 'becoming a living God'.  In that sense then according to a Crowleyan they are merely  idiots.  Take from it what you will then.  That guy does some good YouTube videos on the subjects he has studied.

I tend to think that LHP is BS and the pit of the sad edge-Lord but I don't dismiss their perspective as being without use.   As Shiva said Satanists are looking for Hadit without realising it.  

 

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Shiva
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Yes it appears that he and his entourage are not into the HGA and they seem to think that 'Goetia Demons" etc are the means to 'becoming a living God'.  In that sense then according to a Crowleyan they are merely  idiots.

There are (some) posters here who do not embrace the HGA theorem and do not respond to any "intermediate" procedure ... instead they go directly to the vast void, which is compatible with the Zen Guys and the Tao gals. But they also do not channel demons.

I find only one excuse for this demon-channeling: AC told us that it is proper to  explore the lower before advancing toward the higher. I can only assume that these folks are stuck spending the better part of a lifetime, or a whole lifetime, in this exploration of the lower.

Evocation is the Task of Atu XV, which runs from Hod to Tiphareth, so it's a prerequisite (one of at least three) to anything like the HGA, the Anima, or Inspiration from a higher place.

"You are your own authority" is a good line, and it could easily be interpreted as the truth in Thelemic terms. But, in this case, it is uttered in defiance of invoking, recognizing, or approaching any "higher" aspect on one's self.

If anyone would simply get on with the evocation requirement, master the demon(s), and proceed to The City of the Sun (even if only Harmony is obtained), then things would probably work out better ... without getting obsessed with channeling demons and turning to the manufacture and sale of 4-foot circles.

I wonder if the circles are emblazoned upon silk or wool? If the material is synthetic, this may account for the obsession (possession?) by the demon(s). 

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Yes it appears that he and his entourage are not into the HGA and they seem to think that 'Goetia Demons" etc are the means to 'becoming a living God'.  In that sense then according to a Crowleyan they are merely  idiots.  Take from it what you will then.  That guy does some good YouTube videos on the subjects he has studied.

I tend to think that LHP is BS and the pit of the sad edge-Lord but I don't dismiss their perspective as being without use.   As Shiva said Satanists are looking for Hadit without realising it.  

 

I've seen others mention this approach to the Goetia, including advocating permanent possession by one or more demons.  I can't comment on the effectiveness of this but it doesn't seem like a great idea to me. 

The LHP is not necessarily Satanism, though many Satanists use the term to describe themselves. We can blame Blavatsky, Ahmed, Wheatley, and Lavey for that. Many Satanists do follow the Path, but many use the term without understanding it.  And many, including myself, follow the Path without ascribing to Satanism.  Remember, the original LHP has Hindu Tantric origins. 

As such, many of those who use the term LHP are indeed sad edgelords, and unfortunately they tend to be the ones so many people associate with the Path.  And some people tend to approach antinomianism from a more edgelord-y perspective rather than as a method of transcendence through transgression.  

As I mentioned earlier, Koetting seems to follow the Immanent branch of the Path, which focuses more on power in the world, while trying to be not of the world, rather that the Transcendent branch, which focuses more on initiatory Work.  I'd personally classify the Immanent branch as "looking for Hadit without realizing it."  


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