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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

One could make an appropriate talisman, put it through some appropriate ceremony, and burn it.

I was thinking a talisman, possibly linked with flyers that I can post in appropriate places of business.

 

Congratulations. You passed that bar without any effort. 

Thank you. I have been doing this for a while now.

 

I've been thinking of wu wei a lot lately, in relation to Will and to flow states.

Sure, it's hard to avoid the hardware store and the fabric department, but the closer to making anything from scratch (the basic elements), the better the vibe and the potency.

 

I remember reading the scene in Black Easter where Theron Ware gives a tour of his temple and envying everything there and his skills for having made it all.  I'm currently more at the arts-and-crafts level. 

 

What a bargain.

 

only $1999 for one day of his boot camp, too!  Wow!  😉 

I made a mistake in my comment about the cost of his courses. Miller's courses are similar in price, but with far more lessons over a wider range of subject matter than Koetting's.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

I was thinking a talisman, possibly linked with flyers that I can post in appropriate places of business.

Yes, the talisman must be LINKED to some thing/place, and this usually means we have to go out there and establish the link.

Posted by: @katrice

Thank you. I have been doing this for a while now.

This is obvious. But you know how it usually works. You go from one scenario to another and you find something interesting. You say, "I'm interested."

"They" (unidentified) say, "Fine. You have to start at the beginning."

However, being a professional educator, I have always accepted transfer credit in schools (that I ran)  and in my school. One merely needs to demonstrate what they know and how they can laugh at it. This is usually accomplished by questions. The first question is about Probation (the different practices undertaken). This moves on to The Tasks of the Grades, starting with astral projection, divination, etc.  

This goes on for many exchanges, day after day, until we come to a point where the candidate says, "No, I have not done that!"  Aha!  We have determined the person's formal (recognized) grade level. This does not include their actual, or potential level (which can easily be seen in the aura). But that's in my school, which is now closed due to lockdowns, old age, and other excuses.

However, here at LAShTAL the procedure differs in that formal, linear questioning according to the sephiroth and the invisible spectrum of consciousness are abrogated, and the candidate is thrown into the octagon. It's called sink-or-swim. Many more people sink than swim, which is also true in the linear-interrogation maneuver.

You are awarded two extra bar passes for two short one-liners that display a sense of humor. This (a lack of said sense) is often the vampire who kills the candidate.

Anyone who pretty much understands most of The Book of Lies is probably going to pass all bars and obstacles (as long as they don't claim to be an Ipsissimus).

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Yes, the talisman must be LINKED to some thing/place, and this usually means we have to go out there and establish the link. 

I'm aware that the talisman needs to be linked. I was just mentioning what I planned to link it with. 

 

This is obvious.

Thank you. 

transfer credit

Which is also important when teaching, recognizing prior knowledge and experience.  We all have different backgrounds and experiences, and training should consider this.   Formal and potential grade levels is also a great thing to take in to account. 

Many more people sink than swim,

Which seems to be the case with most things like this. Magick can bring on a full on confrontation with the self even if it's not intended. 

You are awarded two extra bar passes for two short one-liners that display a sense of humor. This (a lack of said sense) is often the vampire who kills the candidate.

Why, thank you!  I like to think that I have a good sense of humor, which I do think is extremely vital for the serious practitioner. Humor helps with keeping perspective, and  I try not to take myself too seriously. You have to be able to laugh at yourself. 

 

I think I might be due for another reread of The Book of Lies. 

 

 (as long as they don't claim to be an Ipsissimus).

 

Awww!  But that takes all of the fun out of it!  


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

We all have different backgrounds and experiences, and training should consider this. 

In the education field, if one has vague experience, but lacks formal training, they are often allowed to take a challenge exam. This means they squawk their insistence that they are competent, and they get to sit for the final exam in that subject. If they pass at 70%+, they get credit; if they fail at 70%-, they have to take the course.

Most technical schools, the OTO, and most A.'.A.'. lineages solve this problem by closing their minds and saying, "You must start at the beginning. Your 30 years of experience with that other order were clandestine, and you are lucky in that we are even considering your entrance at kindergarten level."

Posted by: @katrice

Formal and potential grade levels is also a great thing to take in to account. 

Now we come to the crux of the matter. Azidonis once asked me, "How can they run an order if they can't determine the present and future-potential grade of a candidate?"

The answer is simple: They make everyone start at the beginning, regardless of their experience, and thus avoid making any decision that they are incapable of making, because they cannot see.

Posted by: @katrice

I like to think that I have a good sense of humor, which I do think is extremely vital for the serious practitioner.

Those who come here and sink, always seem to display a lack of humor.

Posted by: @katrice

You have to be able to laugh at yourself. 

Yeah. If you can do that, you can laugh at anything else.

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Most technical schools, the OTO, and most A.'.A.'. lineages solve this problem by closing their minds and saying, "You must start at the beginning. Your 30 years of experience with that other order were clandestine, and you are lucky in that we are even considering your entrance at kindergarten level."

 

The challenge exam should totally be a thing.  People with actual experience should not be treated like beginners. An order should welcome experienced new members and acknowledge their ability. 

But I suppose that just shows how many of them can't recognize ability.

And in some cases people who can't recognize ability and attainment refuse to see it in others and sometimes refuse to believe that any level of attainment above their own is even possible.

Those who come here and sink, always seem to display a lack of humor.

Ironic because Crowley certainly had a sense of humor, but I've met more than my share of humorless people in the magickal community.

Yeah. If you can do that, you can laugh at anything else.

I can be pretty ridiculous, so it helps a lot to acknowledge that. Wants to assemble a magickal study and practice group/Somehow left her phone in the refrigerator this morning.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

And in some cases people who can't recognize ability and attainment refuse to see it in others

"See it" is the keyword. The ability to see is limited. AC apparently could not see, and he specifically stated that "seeing auras, etc) was not the goal of the Work," although he posted a color pic of his aura (as seen by another person "who has the vision." (Blue Equinox).

I always kept my gnose to the Work gReindstone, but after I incidentally saw my first aura, I made special efforts to develop the ability to see (at will, in normal consciousness). I started out easy with techniques that 80% of people can do - focusing on the etheric aura which is normally one inch or less away from the body. I progressed through the other levels (the biggest, and most subtle, is about 17 feet out from the body. It only took me 17 years to get to the point where everything went "click," and I've no difficulties since then (1979). 17 feet and 17 years may be related, but I don't see how. But ...

How can we expect these other fellows to see? We can't (realistically expect). Some people see naturally. No practices, no exercises.

Posted by: @katrice

I've met more than my share of humorless people in the magickal community.

Really? Did you notice that they were completely involved, in one way or another in themselves. their ideas, their agenda?

 


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Azidonis
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Posted by: @katrice

93,

 

I'm looking for people in the NYC area who are serious about A:.A:. Work and Sex Magick, and also open to Working with initiates who follow the Left Hand Path.   I'm looking to connect with like-minded people willing to work together as a study and practice group. 

 

93/93

Sounds fun, even though I'm not in NYC and not necessarily interested in the idea of a LHP.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @azidonis

Sounds fun, even though I'm not in NYC and not necessarily interested in the idea of a LHP.

After a long discussion (in this very thread) about LHP, it seems she is open to LHP, but regards it as a step on The Path of Initiation, which is her primary interest. So it's only the distance that keeps you grounded in [location redacted].

I find it interesting that I mentioned your name just very recently, and you suddenly pop up out of The Sea of Silence. Was this act of mine an evocation, an invocation, or just 6th circuit telepathy?

 


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Azidonis
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Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @azidonis

Sounds fun, even though I'm not in NYC and not necessarily interested in the idea of a LHP.

After a long discussion (in this very thread) about LHP, it seems she is open to LHP, but regards it as a step on The Path of Initiation, which is her primary interest. So it's only the distance that keeps you grounded in [location redacted].

I find it interesting that I mentioned your name just very recently, and you suddenly pop up out of The Sea of Silence. Was this act of mine an evocation, an invocation, or just 6th circuit telepathy?

 

Most likely telepathy. I was made aware of Leo's Epistle 52, managed to see this post and was drawn in by @katrice profile picture.

 

I haven't read the entire thread. The Path of Initiation... I would agree that LHP is included in the overall Path and is a part of it in a way as personal development goes, as both Light and Dark are included. But the LHP as I am calling it these days is a totally amplified version. You know Crowley said that a Black Brother is actually an Exempt Adept who didn't become a full MT. But that doesn't mean they stop... there are MT and Magus equivalents in the LHP, at the least. People who will never be seen getting their hands dirty, but their wills effect the entire world, and not for the better. Because of this, I'm glad that so many people are turning to occultism lately. But also because of this, the symbols have again been muddled for the masses as in Liber 27. So I wonder at how many actual Initiates will come from the overall pool of potentials.


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Shiva
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@Azidonis - this is the post I was referring to - it was only 2 or 3 posts before yours ...
 
Posted by: @shiva

Azidonis once asked me, "How can they run an order if they can't determine the present and future-potential grade of a candidate?"

The answer is simple: They make everyone start at the beginning, regardless of their experience, and thus avoid making any decision that they are incapable of making, because they cannot see.

Did you know we've been discussing LHPers who sit in 4-foot circles and channel demons? With videos to prove it?

Your reference to people who ...

Posted by: @azidonis

effect the entire world

seems to point a finger at The Deep State (aka The Shadow Gov't), a description of which is currently being channeled by HG (mostly on another thread), and which (in my opinion) is The Black Lodge, which is another term subject to wide-ranging definitions.

"The Black Brother of the Left Hand Path" is a specific, Crowley term, used to indict identify Adepti who fail to cross the Abyss, and set up their cottage there. The LHP fellows we have been discussing are not that advanced (as far as I can tell). They are working Atu XV and Atu XIII, but do not show signs of Atu XIV as they allow the demon to enter the circle to control their physical vehicle. They do not seem to use a triangle.

This sort of thing is, of course, the complete opposite of what AC taught us to do, so I guess that's why it's called LHP. In the end, as in the beginning, and even right now, what would tell us the most is: What is their Intent?

Is it to help people or to make a profit? Since I have not watched their many videos, read their books, or read their minds, I am in no position to assess their intent. However, as I put it, regarding my own adventures, at the end of my first book (and here in reference to the current LHP stuff) ...

perform

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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

"See it" is the keyword.  ..

How can we expect these other fellows to see? We can't (realistically expect). Some people see naturally. No practices, no exercises.

Posted by: @katrice

I've met more than my share of humorless people in the magickal community.

Really? Did you notice that they were completely involved, in one way or another in themselves. their ideas, their agenda?

Maybe interpret "see" and more perceive?  "perSEEve"?  Some people have a certain vibe about them that comes through with interaction. 

Though with some it may not show if they don't wish it to. "A King may choose his garment as he will: there is no certain test: but a beggar cannot hide his poverty."

Yes, very much wrapped up in themselves and in their own views, both of which they take entirely too seriously.    

 

Posted by: @shiva

After a long discussion (in this very thread) about LHP, it seems she is open to LHP, but regards it as a step on The Path of Initiation, which is her primary interest

I follow the Transcendent branch of the LHP, which does focus on initiation, daemonic integration being part of that, also adhering to the antinomian aspect of the path by integrating practices of transcendence of limitations through transgression as part of the work.

Posted by: @azidonis

Most likely telepathy. I was made aware of Leo's Epistle 52, managed to see this post and was drawn in by @katrice profile picture.

Thank you for your response, and I'll take your having been drawn in by my profile picture as a compliment.  The above part explaining my practice was for your benefit, as Shiva's been following this thread from the beginning and we've already discussed it.  I don't necessarily reject the RHP, and consider it a sign of immaturity to view the paths as in conflict with each other.  And you are indeed correct in pointing out that there are MT and Magus equivalents in the LHP, though I do consider it inaccurate that the path necessarily affects the world in a detrimental way, though its followers certainly can and some do, but the same can be said for some who follow the RHP too.   LHP does not necessarily mean Black Lodge.

 

 So I wonder at how many actual Initiates will come from the overall pool of potentials.

Few, clearly.  In my case, I am looking for fellow travelers but understand that few will answer and fewer still will see it through.  

 

Posted by: @shiva

Did you know we've been discussing LHPers who sit in 4-foot circles and channel demons? With videos to prove it?

 

For the record, I am not one of those, and find that particular group rather silly.  And, to clarify, they follow the Immanent branch of the path, which I do not necessarily disagree with on principle, it lies in the application in that case too, but which is still not for me. 

 

 

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice
 

 

 

For the record, I am not one of those, and find that particular group rather silly.  And, to clarify, they follow the Immanent branch of the path, which I do not necessarily disagree with on principle, it lies in the application in that case too, but which is still not for me. 

 

 

 

By the way Katrice welcome!   Why not work with a Demon of the Goetia to fulfil your desire as outlined in the OP? I hear that if you give them presents they go to work for you.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

By the way Katrice welcome!   Why not work with a Demon of the Goetia to fulfil your desire as outlined in the OP? I hear that if you give them presents they go to work for you.

Thank you! It's nice to be here, you have some very interesting discussions going on this site.

I have nothing against the Goetia. I've worked with Goetic demons before, which I believe I've mentioned in the sex magick thread, but that would maybe be Plan C.  Plan A is a talisman with the Spell to Helios from the PGM, linked to sigilized flyers at choice, magick-friendly locations, informed with divinations to help refine focus and method.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

Maybe interpret "see" and more perceive?  "perSEEve"?  Some people have a certain vibe about them that comes through with interaction.

Right. Seeing is a term made popular in the first book by the popular Carlos Castaneda. It implies vision. But many folks get it differently (than vision). We are not all sensitive in the light that is higher than eyesight. I once had a client who could not visualize, she could (internally) see absolutely nothing,. but we were attempting astral projection (which usually requires inner vision). With some questioning, it was revealed that she can report visual concepts by feel. There are also those who get their input through intuition (gnosis) , which is another form of feeling.

But, practically speaking, the vast majority of people can see (internally) via visualization, but they do not see (externally) auras, ghosts, angels, etc.

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Right. Seeing is a term made popular in the first book by the popular Carlos Castaneda. It implies vision. But many folks get it differently (than vision). We are not all sensitive in the light that is higher than eyesight. I once had a client who could not visualize, she could (internally) see absolutely nothing,. but we were attempting astral projection (which usually requires inner vision). With some questioning, it was revealed that she can report visual concepts by feel. There are also those who get their input through intuition (gnosis) , which is another form of feeling.

But, practically speaking, the vast majority of people can see (internally) via visualization, but they do not see (externally) auras, ghosts, angels, etc.

 

I've never been able to understand people who can't visualize.  I've always been able to do it.  I do respect how some people can compensate with strong manifestations of other subtle senses,including intuition.  It still takes a pretty strong manifestation for me to see something like that externally, but I can externally hear and feel on higher levels pretty well.


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

I've never been able to understand people who can't visualize. 

They exist. The lady I mentioned was well-developed in a mystical sense. Her inner vision was black-black. Blind. And here I was, demonstration how astral projection could be enhanced with a single acupuncture needle, with a small audience.

We determined that she could feel things. I inserted the needle at Ren 10, led her into a garden (astrally) and she was able to cite the colors on the plants/flowers. She was also able to rise on the planes past Paroketh and make a Solar connection - all of which she was able to describe in color, feeling, and sensation (touch, hearing, etc). But she never saw these things. Hope and help in other spells?

Posted by: @katrice

It still takes a pretty strong manifestation for me to see something like that externally

Same with me, in the beginning. My first visions/auras started as part of (legal) LSD activities. I didn't do anything. I just sat there and the siddhi show came on the visual stage. But my powers of observation wore off with the wearing off of the libation. I persisted with practices for 17 years. Here are the inner secrets ...

We do not see things with our normal vision. We see them with the mystical third-eye. Our normal vision (let's call it looking) is what keeps us from seeing what is right there around us all the time. This is why many of the basic (aura) practices involve fatiguing the retina(s) of our eye(s). This is why I first got to see these things when it was very late and my vision was blurry. I will only cite one experience ... the last of the line ... after 17 years of aura goggles, candles in dark rooms, checkerboard charts (some with spirals, and so on ... with no libation this time ...

It was an overcast, foggy night in Sacramento ... at the airport. The two of us were waiting for the last late plane back to LA. That afternoon, I had just testified before the State House of Representatives regarding educational competence for a pending medical program (I assured them that we had the bona-fido, academic and practical facilities available for training certain people to perform medical-type acts).

Were were both very tired and sitting in the restaurant, watching planes come and go. I got around to mentioning auras. He said (as they usually do), "What do you see in my aura?" I replied about how tired and numb I was, then gave it a shot.

I forget his details, but there was a purple stiletto of purple light coming out of his lower spine.

"How long has your lower back been hurting?" I asked.

"About ten years. Daily constant pain."

So I gave him an extended boost of energy from my palm. He was immediately releived of his pain. (Six months later, it had not returned).

But that night was the focal point. For some reason, after that, I had no problem "putting my normal vision out of focus, just like one of the first books I read said that's what you had to do.

And that is the secret key of the ninth degree of aura reading, which I am forbidden to disclose due to my Oath of Secrecy ... which is now voided.

Put your (anyone) normal vision out of focus

It helps to have the Ajna Activated (AA)


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice

, but that would maybe be Plan C. 

Why? Why not A or B?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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@david-dom-lemieux 

 

If I have the skill base to potentially do something on my own, I'll try to do it on my own first before I resort to hiring someone else to do it. 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

They exist. 

So I gave him an extended boost of energy from my palm. He was immediately releived of his pain. (Six months later, it had not returned).

But that night was the focal point. For some reason, after that, I had no problem "putting my normal vision out of focus, just like one of the first books I read said that's what you had to do.

And that is the secret key of the ninth degree of aura reading, which I am forbidden to disclose due to my Oath of Secrecy ... which is now voided.

Put your (anyone) normal vision out of focus

It helps to have the Ajna Activated (AA)

I know that they exist. It's like a sighted person working to comprehend the experience of someone who's been blind from birth, needing a new language to try to grasp it as well as possible.

Your story is impressive!

Retina fatigue and putting normal vision out of focus are things I've been experimenting with recently in an effort to broaden my perception.  I've also been experimenting with using retina fatigue in conjunction with visualization with sigils. The old staring at something and then looking at a black surface to see the imprint trick but coupled with visualizing to try to link internal and external vision more.  


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

It's like a sighted person working to comprehend the experience of someone who's been blind from birth ...

Tell me about it. At age 25, I had developed none of the metaphysical stuff. I was a malfunctioning robot. Since it was obviously my destiny to teach these things for several decades, I was granted zero in insight, inspiration, aspiration. I had a basic grounding in Karate, and that was it. I say "obviously" because that's what actually happened.

The cosmic designer said, "Look, if this vehicle is going to teach this stuff to people, we can't give him any "natural siddhis. People who can do this stuff naturally don't know how to explain the process of activation. So let's make him totally useless. Then, when he gets motivated by a full dose of legal LSD, he'll start to find ways to activate/do these things. That way he can teach others to do the same ... rather than just putting on a show."

The cosmic designer (plural - just like in the Biblio-) set me up in this manner with no abilities. But, like yourself, I early-on grasped the core value: Just do the work, climb the ladder, leading someone else (literally) up the mountain. I only developed two siddhis along the way; I hope that's not too many.

Also, an afterthought or two: When I see an aura, it is with the ajna. I explained that. But there are (at least) two ways of seeing: Direct and Overlaid. "Direct" is when the energy field of another person is overwhelming. That is, it is so bright that the hard physical world dims and looks like old wood, but the aura is so intense that there is a tendency to look away, to turn one's head in order to prevent passing out. This was my first viewing's nature, and it only repeated a couple more times in my liftime. It was sufficient to propel me on my aura-reading quest.

"Overlaid" is the mode I was allowed to develop for use in normal consciousness, for (sometimes) diagnosing medical issues, seeing another person''s Path, and where they are on it, and how well they are responding to their "higher radio."

The "overlay" is subtle. The person and the room are the person and the room, not old wood. But the radiance (and the distortions, the problems) is/are visible, but not overwhelming.

Anybody can see an aura just by lighting a free-standing candle (not in a glass jar). It starts in a dark room. It helps to have a black (or dark) background behind the candle as you look at the flame. Everybody (who is not blind) sees the flame. They can also see a corona of bright white-gold around the flame - this is level one of the flame's aura.

Look out a bit further. Can you (anyone) see a ring (a round band) around the flame? This is level 2.

Continue scanning outward for more rings (colored bands). The colors will vary, and they get harder to see, the farther out they are.

When you (anyone) can finally see 7 levels (rings, bands), you have arrived!  Now you (anyone) can let a little light into the dark room, and start all over again. After slowly increasing the light in the room, several times, until you are outside in bright sunlight, and 7 bands (concentric circles)  can be seen ... well, your (anyone's) retinae will have been properly activated.

Posted by: @katrice

Retina fatigue and putting normal vision out of focus are things I've been experimenting with recently in an effort to broaden my perception.

Aha!  I have not gotten much benefit from staring at checkerboard posters while roaming my sight in circles. But retinal fatigue from simply getting up early and then staying up all day and all the next night (while working on any project) seem to produce the proper result. It may also be necessary to fatigue the mind because, after all, one is training it to do something different than it was programmed for - so it needs to be semi-exhausted.

aura2

This is a condensed image. The outermost band is normally 17 feet away from the body. Please adjust your ajna to compensate for the shrinkage.

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

 

 

I like the idea of having no natural ability leading to having to do hard work to develop it, and that leaving you better able to teach people of any level.

 

Do any particular circumstances trigger Direct as opposed to Overlaid? The way you describe Direct sounds like it manifests on its own.

 

I'll try the candle exercise!  I know I can already see a couple of layers from similar experiences.

But, like yourself, I early-on grasped the core value: Just do the work, climb the ladder,

I've decided to take this as a compliment.

 

 It may also be necessary to fatigue the mind because, after all, one is training it to do something different than it was programmed for - so it needs to be semi-exhausted. 

I can see the value of semi-exhaustion here. It makes me wonder what other states might be conducive to this too. For my retina fatigue experiments I try to still, or at least relax, my mind first. 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

Do any particular circumstances trigger Direct as opposed to Overlaid?

Lack of sleep, blurry, tied vision, legal LSD. But then it's happened in normal, awake consciousness (once); that was when a quiet, metaphysical conversation was taking place.

People who are born with a natural ability often find they need practices to learn how to shut it off. 

Posted by: @katrice

It makes me wonder what other states might be conducive to this too.

Yes. Of course. The Native Americans have "Vision Quests." In martial arts, one learns the most when they are at the point of exhaustion - that way, if one keeps doing the movements, they are easier to program into the limbic mind and the neuro-muscular system. Most cultures have ways of staying up late, doing dangerous exhausting things, sitting still in the wilderness for 40 days (and nights). It's always 40 something in the Bible - this tells us it's a Qabalistic metaphor.

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Lack of sleep, blurry, tied vision, legal LSD. But then it's happened in normal, awake consciousness (once); that was when a quiet, metaphysical conversation was taking place. 

So a deeper, more below the surface altered state is required, unless there's more powerful forces at work. That's what I'd thought.

Yes. Of course. The Native Americans have "Vision Quests." In martial arts, one learns the most when they are at the point of exhaustion - that way, if one keeps doing the movements, they are easier to program into the limbic mind and the neuro-muscular system. Most cultures have ways of staying up late, doing dangerous exhausting things, sitting still in the wilderness for 40 days (and nights). It's always 40 something in the Bible - this tells us it's a Qabalistic metaphor.

 

Magickal retirements can work that way too, like they're designed to work by wearing you down as much as through the practices themselves.

 

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

So a deeper, more below the surface altered state is required, unless there's more powerful forces at work.

Yeah, but I have not been able to reproduce that state, at will, with or without tiredness or libation, or even "tied (tied) vision. It has been my experience that I have seen full-blown auras with those "crutches," but not intentionally, and only a few times ... passively. That is, I was tired, or libated, or blurry-eyed many times without the cosmic lighthouse effect coming from other folks.

The "overlaid" version is probably more accurate, if one is "reading"{ (interpreting) it. The "direct" manifestation is so strong that one is mostly lost in wonder (or looking away), and analytical procedures are in neutral.

Posted by: @katrice

Magickal retirements can work that way too

Right. There is no difference between a "magickal retirement" and a "vision quest" in intent or results. I note one exception: Retirements are usually done indoors; vision quests are usually outdoors. Personally,

I recommend the desert ordeal. To keep it safe, one needs a canteen, a hat, sunglasses, and a pistol. That's four extra magickal instruments, not counting the matches or a lighter. The pistol, of course, is the wand (fire element); anyone can figure out the other three.

However, my recommendation is for younger folks. I did this sort of thing when I was younger, but don't confuse that with today.

Posted by: @katrice

like they're designed to work by wearing you down

I have never been "worn down" when performing an inside job (indoors). I have been worn down by walks in the wilderness. Indoors or out, an added libation can (I don't say "will") wear one down to nothing. LSD is no longer legal, so I can't recommend that, nor its fellows in the fast lane.

I would recommend going to Oregon, where they have made mushrooms legal, But it's on fire now, and they are somewhat rowdy there.


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

The "overlaid" version is probably more accurate, if one is "reading"{ (interpreting) it. The "direct" manifestation is so strong that one is mostly lost in wonder (or looking away), and analytical procedures are in neutral.

I can understand that.

 

I almost said "I can see that".

Right. There is no difference between a "magickal retirement" and a "vision quest" in intent or results. I note one exception: Retirements are usually done indoors; vision quests are usually outdoors. Personally,

I'd never thought of it that way but it makes sense.

 

I recommend the desert ordeal. 

However, my recommendation is for younger folks. I did this sort of thing when I was younger, but don't confuse that with today.

Unfortunately I don't have a desert near me right now.  I think that closest one is in Maine and I don't think that one counts.
 

I have never been "worn down" when performing an inside job (indoors). I have been worn down by walks in the wilderness. Indoors or out, an added libation can (I don't say "will") wear one down to nothing. LSD is no longer legal, so I can't recommend that, nor its fellows in the fast lane.

 

Liber Samekh got pretty intense towards the end.  The G:.B:. G:. Retirement Ritual too, but that involves fasting and sleep deprivation.
 
I would recommend going to Oregon, where they have made mushrooms legal, But it's on fire now, and they are somewhat rowdy there.
I do enjoy mushrooms. 
 
 

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Posted by: @katrice

Unfortunately I don't have a desert near me right now.

We on the east coast have to do the "woods ordeal", rather than the "desert ordeal".

There is plenty of wilderness within reasonable travel distances from NYC. Head out with minimal gear, libate with lawful psychedelics around sunset, remain in darkness.

If you must have something desert-like, the Jersey Pine Barrens are desolate as all get out (the NYC and Philly mobs have long buried bodies there), very sandy, and it's very hard to find drinkable water there (if you find any water, it will most often be pretty dark brown). There are small misshapen pine trees.


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Posted by: @katrice

Unfortunately I don't have a desert near me right now.  I think that closest one is in Maine and I don't think that one counts.

Rugged mountains will do. There are bears in the mountains, and big cats, so make sure your pistol has a big bore. The important point is to be away from civilization. Jungles might work for you, but not for me; I'm too sensitive to humidity. All that's going on is that one is in a self-reliant place. As one reverts to the ways (and consciousness) of their ancestors (maybe 200 years ago; then 2 or 3 millennia), one gets closer to their core consciousness.

Not many people follow my recommendation. Those that see the benefits of such nonsense have usually previously done something similar - on the own.

Posted by: @katrice

that involves fasting and sleep deprivation.

This is "something similar."

Posted by: @ignant666

We on the east coast have to do the "woods ordeal", rather than the "desert ordeal".

See? There's usually a wilderness ("wild-ness place") near everyone. 

Posted by: @ignant666

There are small misshapen pine trees.

image

 


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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Rugged mountains will do. There are bears in the mountains, and big cats, so make sure your pistol has a big bore. The important point is to be away from civilization. Jungles might work for you, but not for me; I'm too sensitive to humidity. All that's going on is that one is in a self-reliant place. As one reverts to the ways (and consciousness) of their ancestors (maybe 200 years ago; then 2 or 3 millennia), one gets closer to their core consciousness.

I'd need to have a pistol first.  

If I was sensitive to something I'd be tempted to try to exploit it instead of avoiding it, but that's me. Depending on the degree of sensitivity, that's not always a great idea. 

I did the 3 day version of the Retirement Ritual, but that was indoors.

Not many people follow my recommendation. Those that see the benefits of such nonsense have usually previously done something similar - on the own.

 
The closest I've come to anything like that has been an all night vigil on a hillside, sans psychedelics.

Posted by: @ignant666

If you must have something desert-like, the Jersey Pine Barrens are desolate as all get out (the NYC and Philly mobs have long buried bodies there), very sandy, and it's very hard to find drinkable water there (if you find any water, it will most often be pretty dark brown). There are small misshapen pine trees.

I know of the Pine Barrens.  When I was little I wanted to meet the Jersey Devil.  I'm still open to that. 😉 


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Serpent 252
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@katrice

I've asked you more than 40 days ago what is the Trance of Loathing, and you have answered to me.

Thank you for your answer. I know I am a bit late, but you know, as human peoples (@shiva holds the (c) for this expression) say, better late than never. (I think sometimes is better never than late....)

As always, all the best, all the beast, & 93s (and I apologize both for being late & for my Tarzan English)


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Shiva
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Posted by: @serpent252

sometimes is better never than late....

Well, yeah, it all depends on what kind of party you are going to. Since we usually don't know (what kind) until we get there, it is prudent to assume anything can happen.

 


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Shiva
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Posted by: @serpent252

sometimes is better never than late....

Well, yeah, it all depends on what kind of party you are going to. Since we usually don't know (what kind) until we get there, it is prudent to assume anything can happen.

Like double postings of a single post. See? Even the AI isn't so "I."

 


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Serpent 252
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Posted by: @shiva

Like double postings of a single post. See? Even the AI isn't so "I."

Shiva.'.

you just made a perfect post. You made me smile, and I haven't smiled in ages like this time. Rock on.


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katrice
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Posted by: @serpent252

@katrice

I've asked you more than 40 days ago what is the Trance of Loathing, and you have answered to me.

Thank you for your answer. I know I am a bit late, but you know, as human peoples (@shiva holds the (c) for this expression) say, better late than never. (I think sometimes is better never than late....)

As always, all the best, all the beast, & 93s (and I apologize both for being late & for my Tarzan English)

I have no problem with your English at all!  Or with your response being late, I'm happy you responded!  I hope my explanation helped.

 

All the best and the Beast to you too!

 


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice

93,

 

I'm looking for people in the NYC area who are serious about A:.A:. Work and Sex Magick, and also open to Working with initiates who follow the Left Hand Path.   I'm looking to connect with like-minded people willing to work together as a study and practice group. 

 

93/93

Which part of NYC do you live?

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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katrice
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Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Which part of NYC do you live?

 

Brooklyn.     


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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

Brooklyn.

Pssst! Hey, lady, you wanna buy a Bridge?


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David Dom Lemieux
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Posted by: @katrice
Posted by: @david-dom-lemieux

Which part of NYC do you live?

 

Brooklyn.     

Nice...and not so nice...like anywhere.

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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