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What does Balenciaga mean in Latin? Aleister Crowley satanic theory explored amid child campaign controversy

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toadstoolwe
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@shiva

Posted by: @shiva

One starts with an "S" (-ooner) and the other starts with an"L" .

Oh, you're HOT tonight!


   
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the_real_simon_iff
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It is probably a good sign that here on Lashtal an OP about one of the most stupid and obviously nonsensical conspiracy crap can turn into a rather intelligible and entertaining thread. Proud. What a stupid world we live in...

 


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

What a stupid world we live in...

The world is okay. It's just a chessboard, with more dimensions than are first visible, that utilizes the physical action-reaction, The Law of Cause & Effect, as its governor.

When people are added, each with a certain amount of free will, the causes and the effects get moving so fast that interpretation is impossible. Under such stress, some spiritually-deficient individuals crack, and they make up sories. A culture of such deficients would lead to stories that would embarrass our hero, if they were true - but they're not true, so we must turn to U.G., who tells us ...

"Ally your problems are cultural."

What a stupid culture we live in...

 


   
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the_real_simon_iff
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@shiva That's right, Shiva. "Culture" is preferrable to the word "World". Thx.


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @the_real_simon_iff

the ... "World"

Shifting to the other side of the tracks, the World (which I said way okay) is not really okay.  (Now what?)

It has been pointed out that man, and his wife, or spouse of any other extraction, is not "native" to the Terra configuration. What a World!  That is, "natural" inhabitants of specific environments need no prosthetic devices. Fish swim, birds fly, ants dig ... and none of them need prosthetic devices, including clothing, special food preparation (usually fire, maybe fermenting), and heated abodes (outside the tropics).

So here we are, assailed by the elements (all 4 of them, almost all the time). The Elohim say that Eden was a "natural" place for a (dumb) man. He and his spouse ran around naked, ate fresh fruit, and knew no moral shame or embarrassment. 

Then the serpent came along. It (he? she?) can be compared to the twit who linked Balanced Eeahga to Crowley, and they bit into KNOWLEDGE (Da'ath). So here we are, smart as hell, but living in an environment that is not "natural" to our original nature.

And the serpent sends his agents to stir up the pot through the agency of the preverted culture.

 


   
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katrice
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Posted by: @christibrany

Enochian is about communicating with angels and attempting to rise to their plane(s). 

 

The Aethyrs are an initiatory system unto themselves.   And, as @christibrany implied, they seem to have their own means of preventing explorers from reaching certain points. 

 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Not to be bugging you, but what is RESH? 

It is one of the fundamental practices of Thelema, after all.  😀 

 

Posted by: @shiva

Yes, this begins the list of differences. The Solo-mon rites are essentially Black Magic.

That would depend on how you apply them.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

  "If the body of the King dissolve, he shall remain in pure ecstasy forever."

Alchemical implications there, too.

 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I just finished reading Shakespeare 's The Tempest.  The dynamics between Ariel and Caliban is allegorically a profound lesson in Magic(k), well worth reading. (Or re-reading).

 

Alan Moore,  ceremonial magician and creator of the magickally-themed comics series Promethea, among other things, equated Prospero with Dee in another of his comics.

 

Posted by: @ignant666

there is no "Baal cult" or "eyes wide shut intrigue", just an "edgy" marketing campaign, and some google translate glitches, and a bunch of Q-Anon imbeciles engaged in rampant pareidolia.

The larger the conspiracy, the more chance it will get sold out by someone for a book deal or something.

But people will see what they want to see, especially when their worldview has become dependent on it. It's unfortunate that so many people create such dismal realities for themselves.   

 

 

Posted by: @hadgigegenraum

 Stop making quotes that I did not say...that is the type of cheating that is indicative of those who put commercial interests above civil rights.

By saying "Fixed that for you.",  Iggy indicated in his response that you did not say that.  No disingenuity involved

 


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

The Aethyrs are an initiatory system unto themselves.

This is true. Most systems, like those based on The Tree, or the 7-Planes, are vertical with the ladder leading upward from Malkuth, the Kingdom of Horror and Delight. The ladder has multiple places to grab or place your foot.

But the AEthyrs are actually truer to nature, as they radiate out in concentric spheres ...

image

 

image

All living beings (planets, people, dogs, plants) give off an energy field just like these [^] pics , but people only have 7 rings. The rings are 3D spherical - so are the AEthyrs.

Frater Aquarius once said to us, "Stay away from that Enochian stuff - it really works!"

On a different occasion, he also advised, "Stay away from that Marijuana. I can throw you right into hallucinations."

Both items (Enoch and his grass) were just what we were looking for.

Posted by: @katrice

they seem to have their own means of preventing explorers from reaching certain points.

As do the levels of the Tree. As a matter of fact amusing speculation, AC's transcription of the AEthyrs included quite a bit of parallelism, including text and hallucinations (vision and voice), with the spheres and the paths. 

In any case, all systems will have limits at various levels. We may think of them as strict disciplinary military ranks (ex: "Enlisted personnel are not allowed to drink in the Officer's Club). The Army will conceal or restrict or limit certain areas of venue and intelligence (info) under regulations, rules, rank, and enforced by the Military Police (eek!)  [Chris was a MilCop].

On the other foot, we, the sophisticated Sophists, recognize them as Gates, Pylons, Veils, and Guards. Theosophy and The Arcane School refer to a "ring-pass-not.

All of the above (except maybe the MilPol - ask Chris) are secondary to the concept that these barriers/limitations are built within any given aspirant ... and how they manifest is simply a matter of any one person's karmic vision. That is, we don't always see the same thing ... but everybody will be stopped at the Stop Sign (veil), regardless of what they are seeing or calling it.

I have identified 7 specific veils on the Tree (and thus in one's inner configuration). How convenient that there are 7 bands (concentric spheres that show up in the human energy field.

We are all familiar with the two big "gaps" in consciousness: Paroketh ("a bowl" or "a covering"), and the Abyss. They are both harliner limits. The lower self (mind-body-emotions) is confined to the 3D/4D cage. The higher self (in this case, the "middle" self) gets to run around on the abstract causal plane, but the Abyss will keep the action within the personal, separate self, region of consciousness.

Paroketh always seems to be restrictive, appearing as black goo, black fog, or simply a resistance to further movement ... but always in dark terms. The Abyss, on the other geophysical pole, is empty. Who would want to wander out into nothingness?

Enough, I say.


   
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toadstoolwe
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Posted by: @katrice

It is one of the fundamental practices of Thelema, after all.  😀 

 

Liber Resh vel Helios, I guess this puts me back to Probationer 0=0. One step forward, one step back.


   
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toadstoolwe
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Posted by: @katrice

Alchemical implications there, too.

 

Solve et Coagula.


   
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toadstoolwe
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Posted by: @katrice

Alan Moore,  ceremonial magician and creator of the magickally-themed comics series Promethea, among other things, equated Prospero with Dee in another of his comics.

 

I/m going out on a limb here, but the Wikipedia article I read about Alan Moore's Promethia seems to remind me of Hypatia, a poly-math genius and Neo-Platonist (The roots of Hermeticism) who lived in Alexandria, Egypt.  Sadly, she was horribly executed by Christain reactionaries who flayed her alive with oyster shells and ostraca. (Broken pottery shards.)  


   
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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Frater Aquarius once said to us, "Stay away from that Enochian stuff - it really works!"

 

Agreed. Not something to be entered in to casually.

 

Posted by: @shiva

As do the levels of the Tree. As a matter of fact amusing speculation, AC's transcription of the AEthyrs included quite a bit of parallelism, including text and hallucinations (vision and voice), with the spheres and the paths. 

 

Indeed there are parallels, though I've never felt fully certain of attempts to map Aethyrs to Sephiroth exactly. 

 

Posted by: @shiva

In any case, all systems will have limits at various levels. We may think of them as strict disciplinary military ranks (ex: "Enlisted personnel are not allowed to drink in the Officer's Club). The Army will conceal or restrict or limit certain areas of venue and intelligence (info) under regulations, rules, rank, and enforced by the Military Police (eek!) 

 

True, they all do, nobody can truly access a grade is their consciousness has not reached that point, though in my experience, Enochian seems more aggressive with enforcing limits.  \

 

Posted by: @shiva

All of the above (except maybe the MilPol - ask Chris) are secondary to the concept that these barriers/limitations are built within any given aspirant ... and how they manifest is simply a matter of any one person's karmic vision. That is, we don't always see the same thing ... but everybody will be stopped at the Stop Sign (veil), regardless of what they are seeing or calling it.

 

 

During my own explorations, I had occasions where it was clearly my or the partner I was working with not being ready, the experiences were too obviously imagination, but a couple of times when it manifested as being actively stopped by something.

 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Liber Resh vel Helios, I guess this puts me back to Probationer 0=0. One step forward, one step back.

https://hermetic.com/crowley/book-of-wisdom-or-folly/omicron

 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Solve et Coagula.

Aqua Regia 😉 

 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I/m going out on a limb here, but the Wikipedia article I read about Alan Moore's Promethia seems to remind me of Hypatia, a poly-math genius and Neo-Platonist (The roots of Hermeticism) who lived in Alexandria, Egypt

 

Hypatia is actually mentioned in Promethea's origin story. 


   
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ignant666
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Fact-checking/myth-busting site Snopes refutes the idiotic claim (made by a poster above) that "Baal enci aga" means "Baal is the king" in Latin:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/balenciaga-baal-is-king-latin/

"Baal is the king" in Latin is of course "Baal est rex". The Latin word for "king" is "rex", as in "Tyrannosaurus Rex", the "king of the dinosaurs", or "Charles Rex", the new British King and CEO of world wide drug-dealing.

Snopes mentions that they have reached out to Google to ask why this glitch exists in Google Translate, but have not yet heard back from them.


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

One step forward, one step back.

Your 1=10 casual acknowledgment was, and is, dependent upon your description of The Vision of Adonai, which has not appeared here or on Netflix ... yet.

But there is hop and hell in other twists. Let me explain. I did this Resh thing, very punctually, for quite a while. We always spoke of it as The Adorations, never as Resh. At no point (in a period of a few years) did the practice produce any meaningful or significant results. I suspect it is just veiled Mohammadism slipped in along with Kaaba and Qiblah.

Yes, I know it is proclaimed to be designed to establish stability in one's daily journey ... a solar reference point, as it were (or was). I finally dropped the practice and did not lose my footing in daily life. I do not recommend this practice. Maybe Chris, who is down to the bare bones of practicedom, gets something out of it.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I/m going out on a limb here

You sure are ... using the extended, serial posting Shinola (again), taking up space and electrons. Instead of attending 0=0 school, we may have to refer you to reform scool.

Posted by: @katrice

I've never felt fully certain of attempts to map Aethyrs to Sephiroth exactly. 

There is not a 1:1 correlation anywhere. Enoch (as relayed by P.'.) starts at Malkuth and ends up at Kether. Along the way, various spheres and paths are mentioned, walked, or engaged ... but there is no 1:1 parallel resonance. This dilemma may be considered as two different pathways, in different lingos, offering a different (seemingly more potent in Enoch) approach..

Posted by: @katrice

nobody can truly access a grade is their consciousness has not reached that point

This even holds true when the issue is forced through the use of legal psycho-liberating libation. None shall be lifted up or cast down.

We all come in with a blueprint ("destiny" Will") engraved in our DNA and apparent in our energy field. We also have our "grade" imprinted in/out there. This grade, as defined by one of our several standards of measurement, is said to be the highest level we reached in previous lives. We might get scientific and say, "Oh, pooh," while proclaiming that it's in our DNA as the result of some ancestor's heroic efforts.

In P.'.\s case, he finished up the work started (but not completed) by Dee a few centuries earlier. The V&V is advertised as The Complete Initiation of a Master of the Temple. 

Other MTs, 8=3s, will have their own work to finish up. Do not expect them to come mumbling Enochian or calling out in Mandarin. The experience will be unique to each candidate ... and their results should twinkle like a Star.

Posted by: @ignant666

the idiotic claim (made by a poster above) that "Baal enci aga" means "Baal is the king" in Latin

This is true or the Baalites, who see all things in shades of Baal. No wonder Moshe got pissed off and smashed the holy tablets of the Law ...

Gimme a sight of that golden calf
and I'll split any paradigm into half

Posted by: @ignant666

The Latin word for "king" is "rex"

Medical (herbal) prescriptions originally started with ...

Take thou in the name of Jupiter,
King of the Gods
,
... [name of medication]

... which was really long. So they shortened (abbreviated) it to ...

Rex
=
Rx

Oh, what a familiar emblem!

Posted by: @ignant666

they have reached out to Google to ask why this glitch exists in Google Translate, but have not yet heard back from them.

Uh huh. The AI is not perfevt. Elon Musk, Rex of the Mundane Malkuthian Magicians, says this AI will end up killing us. I agree, and I recommend destroying your (anyone's) links to Rexborg, one at a time, by calling them up and dealing with them like a stand-up magician in the Abramelin mode of Evocation instead of being a wimp and getting Assimilated.

 


   
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ignant666
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Posted by: @shiva

The AI is not perfevt.

Google Translate does not use AI. Musky-mobiles do not auto-pilot using AI. Yes, i am aware both claim to.

In fact, there are essentially zero (0) examples of functional AI in use today. What they both (Translate and the Musky-mobile, as well as 99.9% of what is optimistically described as AI) use is "machine learning", which is a necessary step towards the (currently theoretical) prospect of actual "artificial intelligence".


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @ignant666

Google Translate does not use AI.

Please pardon my (missed) use of the Analgram that adds up to 11. I am not sure how the term AI is to be applied. Some people use it only for artificial sentience.  or sapience. I define it as "Anything built by man or aliens that does a job for you by making internal decisions (even if the answer is already pre-programmed down in the machine lingo.

Posted by: @ignant666

Yes, i am aware both claim to.

See? Your definition is not the same as the Musk marketers.

Posted by: @ignant666

"machine learning"

Right. That's what our Borg comm devices are - computers, that compute and can do artificial things that I am incapable of.

That the word artificial is involved is no mystery (man-made, not grown in nature), but the word intelligence is the differentiator. Does it learn by itself, or does it learn by following pre-ordained imprints? If it can make an error, or get hit by an undefinable something, and then make a correction or solve the hit - without reference to pre-prohrammed circuits - well, then I'd be impressed.

Like guns, these things are not evil in themselves. It's how they're used and who fiddles on the dark side that creates the illusion of evil.

I suppose AI involves doing things "outside the box" is needed to get Art Sapiens ?

"In fact, there are essentially zero (0) examples of functional AI in use today."

This is my understanding. The term AI is being used to "upgrade" lesser forms of intelligence for marketing purposes.


   
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christibrany
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Posted by: @shiva

Maybe Chris, who is down to the bare bones of practicedom, gets something out of it.

At the risk of plagiarising, when I remember to do it (60 to 80% of the time?) I do feel a sense of my 'place in the universe' and my connection to it. Puts me in my little place, and also connects me with the Solar Current.  When I do the AUM part, or AUMMNGGGG if you will, I generally turn it into a kind of qi gong.  I move qi from the sun down my sahasrara and down through all the chakras through my feet, as a way of storing energy and grounding myself.  So that seems to do something for me.  

Also visualising oneself as the deity in question at the time, seems to not just connect me to the 93 Current but also affirm and experience my own divinity, if only for a very fleeting time.  


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @christibrany

Puts me in my little place

Yes, this is the advertised version of the description. I never had this reaction/sensation. Just goes to prove that one size (Resh) doesn't fit all heads or feet.

Posted by: @christibrany

and also connects me with the Solar Current.

And ehat effect does this current have on your body & nind?

Posted by: @christibrany

AUMMNGGGG

?

Posted by: @christibrany

[Qi Gong] ... as a way of storing energy and grounding myself.

This is good. Of course, you're cheating by introducing Oriental maneuvers, so you can't be an Orthodox Fundamentalist Thelemite ... Horus forbid!

And does this activity actually store energy?

What you have described should indeed "ground" you, so there will be no interrogation in that direction.

 


   
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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

Yes, I know it is proclaimed to be designed to establish stability in one's daily journey ... a solar reference point, as it were (or was).

To be honest, its main use for me is in organizing my day in terms of when I do which practices

 

Posted by: @christibrany

When I do the AUM part, or AUMMNGGGG if you will, I generally turn it into a kind of qi gong.  I move qi from the sun down my sahasrara and down through all the chakras through my feet, as a way of storing energy and grounding myself.

I accompany mine with pranayama and energy circulation.

Posted by: @shiva

This grade, as defined by one of our several standards of measurement, is said to be the highest level we reached in previous lives.

Hence some people seeming to have more aptitude and quicker progress than others. Of course the highest level reached in previous lives by no means limits potential in the current life.

 

 

Posted by: @shiva

The experience will be unique to each candidate

 

As it should be for all on any initiatory path.

 

Just as how experience of the Aethyrs should be unique to each individual.If you're getting exactly what it says in The Vision and the Voice, you're doing it wrong. 

 

Posted by: @shiva

Musk marketers.

 

Musketeers?

 

 


   
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Posted by: @katrice

Hence some people seeming to have more aptitude and quicker progress than others.

Exactly.

Posted by: @katrice

Of course the highest level reached in previous lives by no means limits potential in the current life.

True. But when one's physical maturity equilibrates with that "highest grade," the struggle takes a steep uphill climb (one has now entered new territory). This is most obvious in the earlier grades. When somebody hits a grade and then suddenly stops making progress, everybody can see what's happening.

After 5=6, things speed up and one is likely to check into the Binah Hotel - assuming they are able to drop their separated self off at Da'ath..

Posted by: @katrice

If you're getting exactly what it says in The Vision and the Voice, you're doing it wrong. 

Well, yes. V&V does have quite a bit of "Crowley material" in it. Actually, it seems "cleaner" than AL in this regard (the insertion of personal bias or concern into Class A extravaganzas).

Posted by: @katrice

Musketeers?

Yeah.

 


   
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toadstoolwe
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Posted by: @christibrany

When I do the AUM part, or AUMMNGGGG if you will, I generally turn it into a kind of qi gong.  I move qi from the sun down my sahasrara and down through all the chakras through my feet, as a way of storing energy and grounding myself.

 

 

I kind sort of relate, years ago I would do the ritual of the Lesser and Greater Pentagram, both to invoke and to banish.  The core or "Middle of the Sandwich" of this operation was to read my tarot cards.  I pretty much did it when I felt like it, not on some rigid schedule.

 


   
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Posted by: @shiva

This is most obvious in the earlier grades. When somebody hits a grade and then suddenly stops making progress, everybody can see what's happening.

 

Indeed. Momentum only carries so far, and then the Work truly becomes work.

 

Posted by: @shiva

Well, yes. V&V does have quite a bit of "Crowley material" in it. Actually, it seems "cleaner" than AL in this regard (the insertion of personal bias or concern into Class A extravaganzas).

 

It really is one of the foundational documents of Thelema, as significant in Thelema's development as AL. 

I've seen people try to invalidate others' experiences in the Aethyrs by saying that those experiences don't match V&V so they must be wrong, but each person's experience is about their own initiation, not Crowley's.  While I naturally read V&V, and used imagery from there as a method to attune myself to each Aethyr, many things I experienced were not what Crowley experienced, and much of what I encountered was wholly new to me, and the same goes for the partners I worked with too. 

 

Posted by: @christibrany

  I pretty much did it when I felt like it, not on some rigid schedule.

 

We all have our own approaches.  For me, having a regimen of practice, not rigid but flexible and adaptable, helps me to pursue the Work throughout my entire day.  But I might be a little fanatical about such things.  😉 

 


   
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toadstoolwe
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Posted by: @christibrany

  I pretty much did it when I felt like it, not on some rigid schedule.

 

 

 

Not a big deal, but I posted that, not @christbrany.  So, clear it up for me, just what IS "Doing the work? An elementary question, probably self-evident. Aside from following Crowley's reading list, I've read most of the titles (Not all) that is all the "work" I have done. (So far) I am getting back into Tibetan Buddhism, I currently ordered The Tibetan Book of the Great Liberation by Evans-Wentz (Commentary by C.G. Jung) Tibetan Buddhism with it's Mystic Cults by Waddell (Old school scholarship) and Tibetan Buddist Charms and Amulets by Nik Douglas.    


   
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ignant666
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

just what IS "Doing the work?

Drawing, painting, visualization, banishing, invocation, divination, assumption of god-forms, yoga, tai chi, qi gong, martial arts, sculpture, theater, sports, crime, playing music, the practice of law, and doing science are some of the paths i followed. In kinda chronological order, with much overlap. 

Almost anything very very hard, done for enough years to get good at it, might do it. And might not.


   
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katrice
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Not a big deal, but I posted that, not @christbrany. 

I knew that, but it looks like the site did not.

 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

So, clear it up for me, just what IS "Doing the work?

Pursuing the Work of initiation.  A complex topic, as it can vary depending on needs, with established systems really ultimately only serving as guidelines open to tailoring.  I personally pursue the A:.A:. gradework as a frame, but have integrated work from other systems in to my practices as I feel called to do so.  


   
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toadstoolwe
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@ignant666 Drawing and painting? I'm there.


   
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toadstoolwe
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@katrice Okay, thanks, makes perfect sense. A re-review of Magick in Theory & Practice sounds useful, for the bare bone's methodology.


   
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ignant666
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More Baal-related news in this holiday-themed clip:

https://youtu.be/Sjj4cxvLtSU


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

having a regimen of practice, not rigid but flexible and adaptable, helps me to pursue the Work throughout my entire day.  But I might be a little fanatical about such things.

You are (fanatical) However (there's always a but), rigid disciplines are what are called for. If one is walking from Lost Angeles to Nude York, it will take a while. The pioneers did it, walking beside their wagons, or riding inside them. It took a while.

If they kept going, they got to Lost A (having walked or rid from York). If they stopped every day and screwed around with other things, they would be lucky if they got to Santa Fe before they died.

Of course, a certain flexibility must be allowed to enter. One cannot do asana on a mat that is wet and underwater from a burst pipe. One should not parade their wagons in front of an Indian pow-wow. Fix the pipe and detour the Indians ... a little flexibility doesn't hurt.

This [^] may be considered "Shiva's Parabellum on Frequency of Work" (c)2022.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

what IS "Doing the work?

Doing the practices ... found in the Libers, such as banishing, invoking, projecting, rising, sitting, breathing, concentrating, divining ... that sort of thing. Frequency of involvement is varaiable. People who try something once or twice are sampling the work. A strict definition of Doing the Work includes the word daily. The length of time to qualify for doing might vary from one week to several years. Anything less is mere talk.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I've read most of the titles

This is preliminary to doing the work. It is Student level. No work is required. The Work starts at 0=0.

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I currently ordered The Tibetan Book of the Great Liberation by Evans-Wentz

A greater appreciation can be gained by consulting copies that are translated by Tibetan Rinpoches.

 


   
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toadstoolwe
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@shiva Yes, more than likely, but it's the turn of the century typography that I find appealing.   Dover Pub. reprints are really cool in that way.  Magick in Theory & Practice has a Dover edition. The cover is modern, but the reprint itself is from the original.  (Not to be confused with the Symonds and Grant ed. edition.)  What I am really looking forward to the Tibetan charms and amulets which contain wood-cut Buddhist illustrations, as well as some chants and curses, and methods of reciting the mantras.  (Shifting the eyes in a particular way while chanting.) I find Bon Buddhism is the most interesting.


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

I find Bon Buddhism is the most interesting.

"Bonpos identify the Buddha Shenrab Miwo (Wylie: gshen rab mi bo) as Bon's founder, although no available sources establish this figure's historicity." - Wiki [gasp] pedia

Anyway, do we all understand what Doing the Work means. Here's one of the problems.

1. A person wants to go to heaven while still alive ... or heaven reaches out to him/her [zap] and says, "Come here!"  Fair enough for any type of beginning.

2. How to get there?

(A) First and foremost is the person who reads some books, does the practices, continues over time, and who seeks no support from external entities such as gurus, groups, or organized anything.

image

^ Poster Child for Category A

(B) More common is the person who enrolls under a guru, joins a group, or some form of external guidance.

image

^ Poster Child for Category B

(C) A further, but more obscure, subdivision of Category B is where a person is moving along without conscious spiritual aspiration, and who gets sidetracked through intense personal instruction, legal LSD, the 60s, and Aleister Crowley. This results in being granted (sequentially by three, not a "battlefield promotion") the big degree and handed the papers to organize this dead corpse of a Phoenix.

image

^ Poster Child for Category C

(D) While Category A remains self-dependent, Categories B and C will, sooner or later, later or sooner, maybe never, find it necessary to move on ...

Thou hast become an Initiate
                   Get Out !

Running away because you're scared is getting out, but not in the spirit implied in the above quote from 333. The idea is to do the whole curriculum, of the outer order, then graduate. very few gurus or Grand Masters are involved in the initiation ritual called Graduation - this is due to the well-established fact that said figures need competent assistance and the last thing they'll do is send away the help.

So, very often, it's some kind of confrontation - with a schism after that, sometimes a drawn out affair. This is Paroketh.

image

^ Poster Child for Paroketh

Yes, an AC biography or autohag tells of the granddaddy of hostile schisms. Nobody is Nothing in this arena 'til they've retired, move on up like a rocketship, or been expelled from something.

Category A remains aloof from this distinction. Hmm. All other categories must move on (or perish) to Category A status in order to reach ...

(E) The Inner Order, which is not some designation on the physical plane, but a brother-sister-hood of people who are able to function solo on the causal plane (above Paroketh). The most commonly described virtue they possess is the ability to recognize other members whenever they meet in their worldly journey.

Poster Children are not posted for this level
but the avatars of several can be viewed in
these forum halls on a regular basis

(F) Yes, yes, there's a further level, but it's Nothing really, so why complicate the story? 

The point of all this long, drawn out, categorization is to point out that later today, or tomorrow (a metaphorical allusion to sooner or later) you (anyone) are going to have to do the Work. Why?

The arcane tradition tells us that we reincarnate - essentially by force, we get no choice. Some people try to be good according to the rules and hope to go to heaven/paradise when they die (see Osirian mortemology). Instead, they end up back here, under different conditions, but still bearing the same old load.

Alternatively, a person might "wake up" one day and realize that he/she is bearing the same old load of his/her ancestors. DNA reincarnation.

It does matter which format is true - the idea is that one has the load.

Well, some folks get so overloaded that they want to get out (of the cyclic re-manifestation of old Shinola). So they study Buddhism, or Bon, or Thelema. They find out these sects (sections, identifiable different ways) involve doing some work.

Nobody gets out without working out their old load of Shinola.

 


   
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toadstoolwe
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@shiva Okay, so I rend the veil (Paroketh) in the Holy of Holy's, then what?

Interesting dream I had last night.  I am sitting on a bleacher with a hand full of other people.  We are looking at huge bas-relief of columns and figures (I can't remember what the figures were) Cherubim perhaps?  Looking higher, the reliefs became more complex.  At the very pinnacle is a bas relief of a anthropomorphic lamb holding something in its grip.  It's the Lamb of Christ!  I exclaimed.  


   
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katrice
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Posted by: @shiva

A person wants to go to heaven while still alive ... or heaven reaches out to him/her [zap] and says, "Come here!"  Fair enough for any type of beginning.

Some may use other metaphors or approaches.  😉 

 

Posted by: @shiva

D) While Category A remains self-dependent, Categories B and C will, sooner or later, later or sooner, maybe never, find it necessary to move on ...

B and C eventually become A if they keep going. 

 

Posted by: @shiva

figures need competent assistance and the last thing they'll do is send away the help.

or in some cases they may want to hold on to their student for other benefits they get from them. 

 

Posted by: @shiva

(E) The Inner Order, which is not some designation on the physical plane, but a brother-sister-hood of people who are able to function solo on the causal plane (above Paroketh).

 

The Teacher or School coming from within or above

 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Okay, so I rend the veil (Paroketh) in the Holy of Holy's, then what?

 

Keep going.  That's just one stage. 

Crowley's Liber Collegii Sancti gives a starting point and overview of the first few grades

https://www.sacred-texts.com/oto/lib185.htm

 

Eshelman's The Mystical and Magical System of the A .'. A .'. gives a thorough account

But don't consider any single system the final word on it all, find what works for you, personally, and listen to what calls to you.    

 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

At the very pinnacle is a bas relief of a anthropomorphic lamb holding something in its grip. 

But what was it holding?   

 

Posted by: @toadstoolwe

  It's the Lamb of Christ! 

 

altered states lamb

   
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toadstoolwe
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Posted by: @katrice

But what was it holding?

I can't remember.


   
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toadstoolwe
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@katrice It looked nothing like that, it was in a profile, a lamb standing on its hindlegs. (In that sense anthropomorphic) the entire relief was marble white.  Nothing or no one told me it was the Lamb of Christ, I just knew it when I saw it.


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

so I rend the veil (Paroketh) in the Holy of Holy's, then what?

What is described in Category E - maybe you missed that part?

 


   
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katrice
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

@katrice It looked nothing like that, 

 

I hadn't thought that it would, I just couldn't resist posting the pic

 Nothing or no one told me it was the Lamb of Christ, I just knew it when I saw it.

As happens in dreams and visions too. 

 

 


   
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toadstoolwe
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@katrice Did I accidently open an Enochian key?  Sometimes when we give a cursory glance at an image, or read something, these form a basis for a dream, they are stored unconsciously in the image library of our brain. Dreams, visions, ideas, aren't these essentially the same?


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

Dreams, visions, ideas, aren't these essentially the same?

Yes - in that they all involve thoughtforms.

No - in that differences can be cited between them ... mainly in matters of control.


   
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toadstoolwe
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@shiva I see.


   
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katrice
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Posted by: @toadstoolwe

@shiva I see.

 

Dreams and visions are great, but the final questions are, what did it tell you, and what did you get out of it? 

 


   
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toadstoolwe
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@katrice Nothing really, beyond an interesting anecdote.  It seems any substantive acts of magic and ceremony only happen in my dreams.  Occasionaly a demon or an angel


   
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toadstoolwe
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....will appear in a dream.  Is it real?  Maybe, in the dreamscape.


   
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katrice
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@toadstoolwe 

 

In situations like this, real is less important than useful

"In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth and the Paths; of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist. It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them."

 


   
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Shiva
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Posted by: @katrice

the final questions are, what did it tell you, and what did you get out of it? 

Ah so, and this leads to dream interpretation, which is very tricky. Dr Jung gives us the best approach I've seen ... he also warns against using Dream Interpretation Guides (books) because a symbol may mean different things to different folks.

Vision Interpretation is best found by reading V&V (a version with the footnotes and comments). Perdurabo extensively footnotes (almost) every one of the ten-thousand symbols, words, and phrases. He usually footnotes these in terms of a Vision Interpretation Guide (Liber) numbered 777.

Oh! Did you notice that Jung is flexible, while Perdurabo is Qabalistically rigid?

My recommendation, previously written along a long paper trail, is to learn the 777 stuff first - that way you'll have common ground with everybody else who did this. Then be prepared to "build your own QBL" as Perdurabo told us must be done. Then Dr Jung's advice comes into play.

While playing this game, it is generally unwise to "build your own QBL" and then reveal it publickly as a breakthrough. This results in scorn, derision, castigation with threats of castration, and possibly suicide by your own magickal dagger. Alas!

Of course, anyone having proof of some kind, other than number juggling, may disregard any hesitancy - let the herald toot the trumpet.

There is one further form of interpretation. It is what you think/feel about the direct dialog you just had (in a secondary clear light chat). The chat is direct, in the unaccented lingo of you inner brain.

Posted by: @katrice

In situations like this, real is less important than useful

Pardon me for agitating your feminine sensibilities, but AC wrote that a woman could not become a Magus as she did not have the necessary physical equipment. We must consider that AC was obsessed with sperm and manhood. The Transhimalayan stream of the White Brotherhood makes no such distinctions or denials.

Anyway, you just cited one of the key phrases of the Magushood. You must report to HeadQuarters Temple to take the proper Oaths. I don't know where to direct you, Sirius A or Sirius B. Try both.

Posted by: @katrice

"... students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them."

You know how "solutions" tend toward complexity when it's supposed to be |simple and self-evident?" This quote is also similarly overlooke a lot.

 


   
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wellreadwellbred
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Shiva: "Vision Interpretation is best found by reading V&V (a version with the footnotes and comments)."

 

Question[-s] to everyone: When did AC add footnotes ad comments to his book The Vision & The Voice. 

 

Shiva: "We must consider that AC was obsessed with sperm and manhood."

 

Yes, but with respect to his Thelema, in his most important book for it, AC does not claim himself only to be the 'conduit' via which, "... is all power given (BOTL 1:15.).", but simultaneously includes "his [replaceable] woman called the Scarlet Woman ... (BOTL 1:15.)".

And, also with respect to his Thelema, in his second most important book for it (The Vision & the Voice), in the penultimate "The Cry of the 2nd Aethyr", AC states this in an endnote:

"[70] BABALON, "in whom all power is given," is the Teh, Sakhi, ה. She is seductive and deadly, being the Disturber of the Total Equilibrium of the Absolute Zero, which considered as a positive Idea, is Existence in perfect Peace, an immutable Essence. But He cannot truly exist without Her; and through Her therefore comes Change, which is Love and Death."


   
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toadstoolwe
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Posted by: @katrice

is

Posted by: @katrice

"In this book it is spoken of the Sephiroth and the Paths; of Spirits and Conjurations; of Gods, Spheres, Planes, and many other things which may or may not exist. It is immaterial whether these exist or not. By doing certain things certain results will follow; students are most earnestly warned against attributing objective reality or philosophic validity to any of them."

 

If I am not mistaken, isn't this quote from Magick in Theory & Practice?  This is of one of the elementary building blocks that Crowley presents the novice magician to be.  I do agree, by doing certain things, certain results will follow.

 


   
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toadstoolwe
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Posted by: @shiva

My recommendation, previously written along a long paper trail, is to learn the 777 stuff first - that way you'll have common ground with everybody else who did this. Then be prepared to "build your own QBL" as Perdurabo told us must be done. Then Dr Jung's advice comes into play.

 

You have inspired me to read Israel Regardie's  777 and other Qabalistic Writings of Aleister Crowley.  Crowley's 777 is also useful and essential in establishing correspondence between an encyclopedic list of words, symbols, colors, symbols, numbers, (As you all know well). 


   
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hadgigegenraum
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Israel Regardie had a hand in The Vision and the Voice footnotes...

 


   
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toadstoolwe
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Posted by: @wellreadwellbred

Yes, but with respect to his Thelema, in his most important book for it, AC does not claim himself only to be the 'conduit' via which, "... is all power given (BOTL 1:15.).", but simultaneously includes "his [replaceable] woman called the Scarlet Woman ... (BOTL 1:15.)".

 

My feelings about The Vision & The Voice:  He who has ears to hear, let them hear.


   
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wellreadwellbred
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toadstoolwe: "My feelings about The Vision & The Voice:  He who has ears to hear, let them hear."

 

There is from the (current) O.T.O., perhaps the largest and best-known among the current Thelemic organizations, a dearth concerning (new) material covering what according to AC in chapter 66 of his autohagiography Confessions, are the two most important books of his Thelema:

Firstly his book The Book of the Law (which AC considered the most important book of his Thelema), and secondly The Vision and the Voice (which AC considered the second most important book of his Thelema).

Much can be missed or simply not understood, given a systematic lack of instruction.


   
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