We all does not include me.
Surely you know what a Succubus is. They walk among us in human form. In my own demonology, I put psychic vampires in the same catalogue.
Surely you know what a Succubus is. They walk among us in human form. In my own demonology, I put psychic vampires in the same catalogue.
Oh! Those creeps. People who do a regular banishing find that this crap goes away rather quickly. When commencing this defensive fisilade, sometimes the denizens kick up and cause a commotion. The police may come. All kinds of weird stuff can leak over onto the physical plane.
Just keep banishing. Daily. If it get to smokey from the fires, or too wet from the thunderstorms, move it up to twice a day. Once you start this, and you don't fall down with tremors, and you don't quit, taking tranquilizers, and denying the praeter all together, but just keep going ... all psychic no-sense nonsense will just go away.
Howver (there's always a butt), nothing can protect the initiate who has driven the astral rabble away (Rabeleis?) and moved on to higher gradations. For at each initiation, a vampire arises, whose task is to distract one's attention ... usually towards their weakest point. AC wrote that this happens, and I have have seen it so.
So there's always that.
I didn't even realize it was an "ordeal" until Shiva pointed that out. For me, it was a just happy sequence of events. (Getting my first real job and making friends with a Thelemite all at the same time?) So, what WERE your initiatory ordeals? You sound like Seinfeld, "Don't get me started" Obviously you want to get started. I would like to hear about it.
I was being flippant about something I've mentioned here a couple of times before
But on a more serious note one of my first real initiatory experiences, in the sense of true initiation, was a psychedelic visionary experience where I found myself on a ship crossing a seemingly infinite ocean until I reached a huge wall and something large, dark and amorphous swooped down upon me, which brought me back to my physical body,leaving me in a mild state of shock. For several weeks afterwards I felt as though "I" was disintegrating, the phrase "there's nothing left of me" kept going through my mind, until eventually I managed to bring myself back together in a more functional way.
I've also had a sort of death-and-rebirth experience after a ritual involving intense degradation. I needed reviving for that one.
But what I was referencing, and have referenced before, was my first ritual initiation. I've mentioned here before I was an edgelady in high school, always looking for more extreme things to explore, though while I played with and enjoyed the shock value, I was still sincere in my interests. That and my interest in the supernatural naturally led me to magick. First Satanism, then this Crowley guy, who seemed more interesting that Satanism. That led to me meeting my first "mentor", a man who was a little over twice my age. And that led me to my first ritual "initiation".
Take one teenage Katrice. Apply to her a modified Liber Pyramidos, with special emphasis on the "Scourge, the Dagger & the Chain" part, for "he may make severe the ordeals" of course. 🙄 Add a "Baphomet ritual", actually Carroll's Mass of Chaos B, complete with goat mask, also incorporating a wooden, and then real, phallus applied to the Katrice.
93
Thanks for the synopsis and for coming through the ordeals, and coming to recognize the ordeals, as serving initiation, of indeed dying and being reborn, in what with your record; speaks to several layers of what might be deemed stations of the cross as filtered through emblems inclusive of the contribution of Crowley to the magical revival you now work...And through what has been very intense and primal in the highest sense transformation...of coming through! Your candidness and balanced perspective is well appreciated.
93/93
HG
Thanks for the synopsis and for coming through the ordeals, and coming to recognize the ordeals, as serving initiation, of indeed dying and being reborn, in what with your record; speaks to several layers of what might be deemed stations of the cross as filtered through emblems inclusive of the contribution of Crowley to the magical revival you now work...And through what has been very intense and primal in the highest sense transformation...of coming through! Your candidness and balanced perspective is well appreciated.
Oh please! Enough with the condescending goo! She had a bad acid trip and was used and abused by some creep in the name of "Occult ritual" Also, Baphomet doesn't really exist, it was an invention of 19th century Occultist Eliphas Levi.
katrice: "That led to me meeting my first "mentor", a man who was a little over twice my age. And that led me to my first ritual "initiation". "
Cold comfort to you, that what you describe in the quote from you above, is not the worst that could have happened in that particular situation.
You might already be familiar with Manon Hedenborg White's, doctoral dissertation The Eloquent Blood: The Goddess Babalon and the Construction of Femininities in Western Esotericism, where she explores issues of gender and sexuality, with a focus on the construction of femininities, in modern occultism.
And you might also already be familiar with Tim Maroney's (1998) Facts and Phallacies, (originally published in The Scarlet Letter, Volume V, Number 2.).
I recommend the latter short but informative essay, concerning how Crowley's sexism colors his legacy, and how to deal with this situation.
(Source: Essays in the Tim Maroney Web Collection[:] Facts and Phallacies by Tim Maroney (1998) (Originally published in The Scarlet Letter, Volume V, Number 2.) - - - Facts and Phallacies @ Essays by Tim Maroney )
Yes, he (she/it) did exist ... but he changed the spelling to BafometR, Grand Master of the English-speaking Templar Temple.
Granted. But the bigger issue is Aleister Crowley's relationship with Levi, both as a translator of The Key of the Mysteries, and his sincere belief that he was the reincarnation of Eliphas Levi. His admiration for Levi (aka Alphonse Constant) borders on hero-worship.
But the bigger issue is Aleister Crowley's relationship with Levi, both as a translator of The Key of the Mysteries, and his sincere belief that he was the reincarnation of Eliphas Levi.
Right. I summed all this up in one "Aha! but maybe that was too short.
His admiration for Levi (aka Alphonse Constant) borders on hero-worship.
Yes. If one's previous incorporation, Alphonse, was the pinnacle of esoteric knowledge of the previous millenium or two, and one was also Alex VI, who was a Borgia, and also Ankh-af-nu, circa 500 BC ... didn't he also claim Cagliostrio? ... what a curriculum vitae akashiana.
The Hall of Fame of Occultists! By the way, the Borgias get bad press, and yet they were highly influential in Renaissance art and patronage. Just remember Orson Welles in the Third Man and his speech to Joseph Cotton. Bulls Eye!But the bigger issue is Aleister Crowley's relationship with Levi, both as a translator of The Key of the Mysteries, and his sincere belief that he was the reincarnation of Eliphas Levi.
Right. I summed all this up in one "Aha! but maybe that was too short.
His admiration for Levi (aka Alphonse Constant) borders on hero-worship.
Yes. If one's previous incorporation, Alphonse, was the pinnacle of esoteric knowledge of the previous millenium or two, and one was also Alex VI, who was a Borgia, and also Ankh-af-nu, circa 500 BC ... didn't he also claim Cagliostrio? ... what a curriculum vitae akashiana.
Oh please! Enough with the condescending goo!
I'd consider it more condescending to be so dismissive of my experiences.
She had a bad acid trip and was used and abused by some creep in the name of "Occult ritual"
The latter I agree with. I really didn't learn anything from him I couldn't have learned from Liber O. While he wasn't a "fake", strictly speaking, he was definitely more in to it for having access to my orifices than anything else. I could be a dumb kid sometimes. I'd call my experiences there more of a life lesson.
The former was not a "bad acid trip", it was part of a structured ritual and the result was an unexpected intense dissolution and reformation of ego. Such things are part of the initiatory process, just typically not as intense. The practice of meditation helps with such things more gently, exposing the mind to the void in microdoses, which is why meditation is one of the essential practices of Thelema. I just got an unexpectedly powerful version that time.
The other one I mentioned was the result of a ritual intended to bring about catharsis through trance of loathing and intense antinomianism against the self. That was another occasion of my getting a more intense result than I'd planned.
Both of those had longer lasting, transformative effects on me.
Also, Baphomet doesn't really exist, it was an invention of 19th century Occultist Eliphas Levi.
Just because a deity is "new" does not make it less legitimate, and older deities can manifest in new forms. Even in ancient times gods were not static. New ones came in to being and older ones changed. Earlier in this discussion we mentioned Baal in this respect.
Cold comfort to you, that what you describe in the quote from you above, is not the worst that could have happened in that particular situation.
I am all too aware of that, and of sexism among many Thelemites. I've read a few works on the topic. You may recall my comment about people viewing Babalon as the spiritual version of an inflatable doll. It's a shame that all too many people want to emulate Crowley's worst features. And that so many people are drawn to Thelema as an excuse to get laid and stoned and call it religion. Or maybe I should say they get drawn to it for those reasons and never go further, certainly the more "scandalous" elements were part of what initially piqued my interest.
Also, Baphomet doesn't really exist, it was an invention of 19th century Occultist Eliphas Levi.
Baphomet was likely a misheard pronunciation of Muhammed but, whatever it was, it's first recorded use was in the 11th Century.
And that so many people are drawn to Thelema as an excuse to get laid and stoned and call it religion.
I could not agree more but, if ever the world were in need of a new religion, it's one that worships sex and getting stoned.
I'd consider it more condescending to be so dismissive of my experiences.
I wasn't being dismissive. I've been there, I know. Taking a psychedelic substance with the trappings of a ritual doesn't guarantee that the experience will be pleasant. In one instance It was a bum trip, everything was ugly and negative. Is that insight? Maybe, in some circumstance. Did it "transform" me? might have thought so, but really it is just the results of a powerful drug and eventually I got over it. It is all MAYA.
I could not agree more but, if ever the world were in need of a new religion, it's one that worships sex and getting stoned.
I agree as well, but unfortunately that attracts too many people who want an excuse for empty indulgence, rather than seeing those things as tools for initiation.
I wasn't being dismissive. I've been there, I know. Taking a psychedelic substance with the trappings of a ritual doesn't guarantee that the experience will be pleasant. In one instance It was a bum trip, everything was ugly and negative. Is that insight? Maybe, in some circumstance. Did it "transform" me? might have thought so, but really it is just the results of a powerful drug and eventually I got over it. It is all MAYA.
Ordeals are ordeals because they are negative, but this was an experience that resulted in long term transformation, so not just illusion or a "bad trip". And I never said I expected it to be pleasant. I just said that it was done as part of ritual work, to distinguish it from casual indulgence. Psychedelics can be useful tools under the right circumstances, usually as a shortcut to reach states that would be more difficult to reach otherwise. Naturally, though, the ideal is to eventually learn how to reach them without using substances.
I'm curious, I always hear about "transformations" due to the psychedelic experience. How were you "transformed"? If by that you mean your point of view is drastically "transformed" then I can agree. A brief experience of seeming to be able to see the myriad of levels of existence, or sensing the life-force can be highly entertaining, even awe-inspiring at the moment. But, in the long run is it just Maya. However, if that opens up a new interest or study, it is not a bad thing. Maybe even Decartes Meditations on the First Philosophy will become clearer.transformation
How were you "transformed"?
Very much the transformation of point of view that you mentioned. Expansion of viewpoint, broadening of perspective, transcendence of limiting factors of the psyche, leading to clearer, less limited experience and deeper understanding. The dissolution of "me" led to a recreation in much more expansive form. Solve et coagula. So much of maya lies within, as the filters of our perceptions distort our experience of the world.
A brief experience of seeming to be able to see the myriad of levels of existence, or sensing the life-force can be highly entertaining, even awe-inspiring at the moment.
Indeed so, and those experiences bear little fruit unless the lead to further development. Seeing pretty things is not initiation.
Indeed so, and those experiences bear little fruit unless the lead to further development. Seeing pretty things is not initiation.
Are you sure? Even if you never noticed "the pretty things" before?
Very much the transformation of point of view that you mentioned. Expansion of viewpoint, broadening of perspective, transcendence of limiting factors of the psyche, leading to clearer, less limited experience and deeper understanding. The dissolution of "me" led to a recreation in much more expansive form. Solve et coagula. So much of maya lies within, as the filters of our perceptions distort our experience of the world.
"Solve et Coagula" The writings of C.G. Jung on Alchemical psychology and symbolism is highly recommended. (You no doubt are familiar, if not an expert)
Are you sure? Even if you never noticed "the pretty things" before?
The final question are, was it useful, and what did it really do for you?
The Vision and the Voice is full of fascinating visions, but they were more than just pretty sights, Crowley's experiences were initiatory for him, and also helped shape Thelema.
"Solve et Coagula" The writings of C.G. Jung on Alchemical psychology and symbolism is highly recommended. (You no doubt are familiar, if not an expert)
Indeed. I'm quite fond of the Red Book in particular.
The final question are, was it useful, and what did it really do for you?
Of course it was! To reuse what is now a bit of a tired cliche, but nonetheless significant, "It opened the doors of perception" Once you do that, there's no going back.
And of course, there is a Crowley-Huxley connection.
Indeed. I'm quite fond of the Red Book in particular.
A stunning book to be sure, however C.G. Jungs Psychology and Alchemy Vol.12 is more direct.
"It opened the doors of perception" Once you do that, there's no going back.
This is true ... a Point of No Return.
Butt: The first problem encountered upon entering No Returnity is that one might get bogged down in the wonderful mysteries that are just on the other side ... when the actual goal is way beyond the entry portal ... maybe an eternity away, but who am I to say, this is the true way?
And of course, there is a Crowley-Huxley connection.
Of course. No butts. However, Crowley claimed to have introduced peyote to Europe - he also puttered around in the extraction/production of Mescaline. Huxley was a fan of mescaline (intravenous injection, no less - so he must have had access to the pure stuff).
Now researchers and scholarly scholars want to have a meeting between AC and Hux, wherein AC gave Hux several sterile syringes and a large vial of Parke-Davis Mescaline. This is the core of the wishful thinking scenario that apparently never took place.
Butt ... here is the causal connection in simple writ:
However, Crowley claimed to have introduced peyote to Europe
He claimed a lot of things that aren't true. Arthur Heffter (German) isolated it in the late 19th c and Ernst Spath (Austrian) synthesized it in 1919. Huxley didn't take it (supposedly) until the 50's.
isolated it
"It" being mescaline, in 1897.
And Louis Lewin (as in "Anhalonium lewinii", the outdated scientific name for peyote used by AC, usually abbreviated as "A.L."), who published the first scientific article re peyote in 1888, was German, as far as "introduced to Europe".
But i think AC does in fact get credit for "introduced to bohemian/recreational, and also entheogenic, use in Europe".
Huxley didn't take it (supposedly) until the 50's.
1953, according to Doors of perception, published the following year.
But i think AC does in fact get credit for "introduced to bohemian/recreational, and also entheogenic, use in Europe".
I'd love to see evidence of it out of purely historical curiosity. If only Crowley's own account could count.
We have documented Euro-boho-religio use with Rites of Eleusis in 1910, maybe someone else was in there before that, in the 22 years since Lewin's article. But i never heard of them.
But the real date to beat would be 1902, when AC returned from the Mexico trip, where he apparently first tried peyote.
Have you read Patrick Everitt's work on AC and peyote?
If not, you will be interested; do so. Very good scholarly work, with much eye-opening stuff (like "AL" = peyote before that was the name of any books) that i did not know after more than 40 years of Crowleying when he first published.
Arthur Heffter (German) isolated it in the late 19th c and Ernst Spath (Austrian) synthesized it in 1919.
Isolation is not introduction to the masses.
1919 would have been after AC introduced it 1900-10, or so.
It was in 1910 that The Rites of Eleusis were presented to the public - a bucket of (foul-smelling) peyote soup stood in one corner. The public was invited to "drink up."
This part does not appear in the sterilized Wiki article on the Rites, but it does qualify for introduction status ... pending any discoveries of earlier introduction(s).
Crowley's experiences were initiatory for him, and also helped shape Thelema.
I would suggest that nothing "shapes Thelema." Thelema is Will and Will IS.
Do you mean Crowley's experiences shaped how he molded his (psuedo) Religion? I would agree. His experiences manifested neurotic tendencies-and these he built into his "cultus."
(like "AL" = peyote before that was the name of any books)
What do you mean by this?
Here's a quick lecture from Everitt that hits the bullet points of his thesis:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll41StGTTxc&ab_channel=OPENFoundation
I would suggest that nothing "shapes Thelema." Thelema is Will and Will IS.
I thought what I typed was rather clear but maybe I should have typed something like "the Thelemic religio-magickal paradigm"? I have been under the impression that the word "Thelema" is commonly used to refer to the belief system itself too, and have seen little to contradict that impression even here.
Do you mean Crowley's experiences shaped how he molded his (psuedo) Religion?
Religion, philosophy, magickal system with religious overtones.
I would agree. His experiences manifested neurotic tendencies-and these he built into his "cultus."
You could probably make that argument about many, if not most religions, particularly those that incorporate some kind of "spiritual journey". The Book of Coming Forth By Day, The Bardo Thodol, Pathworking the Tree of Life, etc. Someone translating their experiences, filtered through their perceptions and interpretations, and passing them on to others.
A stunning book to be sure, however C.G. Jungs Psychology and Alchemy Vol.12 is more direct.
Indeed so.
... something like "the Thelemic religio-magickal paradigm"?
Thelema, as pure Will, is self-existent prior to anything else (except Kether and Ain states). KHawk is correct, from a Chokmah point of view.
As soon as we (anybody) puts a name on it, the spell is broken and the relio-magickal paradigm arises (in Perdurabo's mind). He writes about this, and it becomes a contagious thoughtform in print. It spreads. Some people adopt it as their scaffold. They explain it, they argue about it, they further define it, and all this is below the Abyss and useless mumbling. But it's what we have ... and it points us in the proper direction for getting out.
Thelema, as pure Will, is self-existent prior to anything else (except Kether and Ain states). KHawk is correct, from a Chokmah point of view.
True enough but I'm pretty sure most everyone here knew what I meant, and I'm pretty sure that we don't normally communicate on the level of Chokmah here.
As soon as we (anybody) puts a name on it, the spell is broken and the relio-magickal paradigm arises (in Perdurabo's mind).
Indeed, the direct experience of gnosis in inherently transrational and therefore cannot be communicated by mere language. For example, nobody can "profane" the true mysteries by writing about them.
we don't normally communicate on the level of Chokmah here.
Speak for yourself, young lady.
Well, i suppose you are really right, as we must make out speech comprehensible to passing trogs and normies. Never mind.
Speak for yourself, young lady.
I am! 😉
Well, i suppose you are really right, as we must make out speech comprehensible to passing trogs and normies. Never mind.
And for the poor, unfortunate benighted members who haven't reached 9=2 yet.
@shiva According to the rules of grammar, snoring is indicated by one upper case Z followed by lower case z's. Merry Christmas!
snoring
Whose Grandma?
Usually, when a person gets bored with what others are saying, and they complain about it, someone else comes along and says, "If you don't like it, don't read this thread."
Everything in this thread is now so off-topic that Balanced Iaga has turned over and repented, but graffiti like z's tends toward condescension.