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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3877
16/03/2011 9:25 pm  

There is an extremely good book - The Three Dangerous Magi, a comparative study of Crowley, Gurdjieff and Osho (Rajneesh) - which has been out for a few months now, by P.T. Mistlberger.

The author will be giving a talk and book-signing tomorrow evening (Thursday 17th March) 6.30pm-7.30pm at Watkins Bookshop in Ceceil Court, London WC2. Entry is free. Details:

http://www.watkinsbooks.com/review/book-signing-three-dangerious-magi-osho-gurdjieff-crowley

Best wishes,

Michael.


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alysa
(@alysa)
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16/03/2011 11:15 pm  

The author is also a member of Lashtal.com, Mahakala77, I hope you enjoy the talk, Michael!


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Palamedes
(@palamedes)
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17/03/2011 4:20 am  

Phil is a great guy and he has a lot of experience in things esoteric. I highly recommend his book and am quite certain that the talk will be both substantial and engaging. Goddess, I wish I live in London - there's never a dull moment!


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3877
17/03/2011 8:50 am  
"Iskandar" wrote:
Phil is a great guy and he has a lot of experience in things esoteric. I highly recommend his book and am quite certain that the talk will be both substantial and engaging. Goddess, I wish I live in London - there's never a dull moment!

Oh, I can normally count on two or three dull moments on a bad day in London. Good thing too - relentless joy can get tedious sometimes

Yes, the book is extremely good, and I am enjoying it immensely, and am writing a review for the forthcoming issue of Starfire. I knew next to nothing about Rajneesh before reading this book, so was pleasurably surprised to find out how substantial a figure he was. It was also interesting to read the material about Gurdjieff, especially in view of the comparative study of Crowley and Gurdjieff, Beezlebub and the Beast, which I'm preparing for publication later this year.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
18/03/2011 1:00 pm  

Greetings from an Internet cafe somewhere in the middle of this small 'country' known as London.

Enjoyed meeting you Michael last night at Watkins -- my immediate impression of you was how much you reminded me of Simon Callow as he appeared in 'Chemical Wedding'. Remarkable similarity, even if you didn't appear in mauve suit. πŸ™‚

I agree with Iskander (whom I've recently had the pleasure of meeting), London is exceptional and doubtless taken for granted by its denizens. This city appears to have at least 4 significant esoteric bookshops. My own city (Vancouver) has one, albeit a very good one, but rarely carries any Kenneth Grant, for eg., whereas Watkins has a number of his books. New York City, to my knowledge, has zero esoteric shops, if you can believe it.

The British museum trumps the MET in New York, in my opinion. Extraordinary collection, even if plundered. πŸ™‚

Enjoyed speaking at The Moot With No Name on Wednesday, and meeting Geraldine and Steve. Didn't know what to expect, but giving a talk for 35 people in a pub, all with an ale parked in front of them, made for one of the best audiences I've ever had. Steve is a character, and a rare example of a Thelemite/ex-Osho disciple.


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 Anonymous
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18/03/2011 4:51 pm  

I've found my experiences with American museums to be a touch disappointing myself. Everything is fake LOL. Makes me think of Eddie Izzard... welcome to Europe, where the history comes from... LOL


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
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18/03/2011 7:42 pm  
"Mahakala77" wrote:
Enjoyed meeting you Michael last night at Watkins -- my immediate impression of you was how much you reminded me of Simon Callow as he appeared in 'Chemical Wedding'.

Priceless!

πŸ˜‰

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
22/03/2011 7:41 pm  

Is there an account of the meeting between Crowley and Gurdjieff in the book? I remember reading something about it on this site as a lurker a while ago, I would really be interested in reading if this is featured in the book in more detail?


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 3877
22/03/2011 7:47 pm  
"cactusnick" wrote:
Is there an account of the meeting between Crowley and Gurdjieff in the book? I remember reading something about it on this site as a lurker a while ago, I would really be interested in reading if this is featured in the book in more detail?

The book records two visits by Crowley to Gurdjieff's community at Fontainbleu. On the first occasion, Gurdjieff was absent, but the two men met on the second occasion.

Best wishes,

Michael.


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 Anonymous
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22/03/2011 9:33 pm  

excellent, sounds like one to put on the ever expanding reading list
thanks


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 Anonymous
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23/03/2011 12:20 am  
"lashtal" wrote:
"Mahakala77" wrote:
Enjoyed meeting you Michael last night at Watkins -- my immediate impression of you was how much you reminded me of Simon Callow as he appeared in 'Chemical Wedding'.

Priceless!

πŸ˜‰

Trailer complete with mauve suit:

http://www.moviestrailer.org/chemical-wedding-movie-trailer.html


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 Anonymous
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Posts: 0
24/03/2011 4:45 am  

Now can there be any doubt that these are long lost brothers? πŸ˜‰

This will be old news for Londoners, but concerning the treasure trove in the British Museum, my personal favorite piece is probably this:

It is the actual 'shew-stone', or scrying mirror, used by John Dee's sidekick Edward Kelley, allegedly to communicate with 'Enochian' entities, in so doing to bring forth the Enochian language. It is black obsidian (volcanic glass), and was actually plundered by Cortes' people in Mexico in the 1530s. (The Aztecs used it for divination). Dee and Kelley were using it in the 1580s.

Crowley, of course, claimed that Edward Kelley was one of his previous incarnations, and he spent considerable time in Mexico (though I'm unaware of his ever mentioning Aztecs).


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
24/03/2011 6:03 am  

Thanks Mahakala77 for that most enjoyable post! πŸ˜€

I was lucky enough to see the Dee objects whilst on Sabbatical in London a few years ago and was likewise impressed by the Aztec obsidian Black Mirror.

Whilst we're on the subjects of uncanny resemblances between wizards on and off-screen, and on the subject of Dee, I am also impressed by the clear (intentional?) resemblance between the latter in his famous portrait (below) and the particular visual flavour of Christopher Lee's "Saruman" from Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings films. Saruman's characteristic Weapon, as we all know, was the Palantir or scrying-stone through which he conversed with the Forces of Darkness. One wonders whether the history of Dee had superficially entered Tolkien's reading matter - it likely would have, given Dee's importance to Elizabethan history and Tolkien's depth of learning.


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herupakraath
(@herupakraath)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 408
24/03/2011 12:07 pm  
"Mahakala77" wrote:

This will be old news for Londoners, but concerning the treasure trove in the British Museum, my personal favorite piece is probably this:

It is the actual 'shew-stone', or scrying mirror, used by John Dee's sidekick Edward Kelley, allegedly to communicate with 'Enochian' entities, in so doing to bring forth the Enochian language. It is black obsidian (volcanic glass), and was actually plundered by Cortes' people in Mexico in the 1530s. (The Aztecs used it for divination). Dee and Kelley were using it in the 1580s.

I'm curious, do you have any idea what the dimensions of the obsidian sphere are? It also looks like there is a nipple at the top with a hole in it--do you have insight into that feature?

I have to say, the thought of two Elizabethan Englishmen traveling through Europe, communicating with Hebrew angels by gazing into an Aztec shewstone takes the cake: when compared to the account of Aleister Crowley invoking ancient Egyptian gods in the Great Pyramid, and ultimately communicating with them, Crowley's story seems quite reasonable. πŸ˜€


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amadan-De
(@amadan-de)
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Posts: 686
24/03/2011 7:17 pm  

Dee/Kelley's scrying mirror is flat not spherical. It's 'in the shape of a hand-mirror' (quoth Wikipedia) so the pierced lug at the top in the picture will probably have originally (ie by the Aztecs) been used to attach a handle or possibly suspend/hang it by.

Here's the BM's own page on it - http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/pe_mla/d/dr_dees_mirror.aspx Unfortunately they don't give dimensions but as I recall it's under a foot and more than 6 inches across :).

The little display of Dee's artefacts is a lovely thing to find in the museum - I was 'led' to it by our children who had been rushing randomly around the ground floor and then collapsed "exhausted" on the floor in front of it. Nice serendipity.


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herupakraath
(@herupakraath)
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24/03/2011 8:02 pm  
"amadan-De" wrote:
Dee/Kelley's scrying mirror is flat not spherical. It's 'in the shape of a hand-mirror' (quoth Wikipedia) so the pierced lug at the top in the picture will probably have originally (ie by the Aztecs) been used to attach a handle or possibly suspend/hang it by.

Here's the BM's own page on it - http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/pe_mla/d/dr_dees_mirror.aspx Unfortunately they don't give dimensions but as I recall it's under a foot and more than 6 inches across :).

The little display of Dee's artefacts is a lovely thing to find in the museum - I was 'led' to it by our children who had been rushing randomly around the ground floor and then collapsed "exhausted" on the floor in front of it. Nice serendipity.

Thanks for the response and the link; I should have known the mirror was flat due to the hole at the top.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
24/03/2011 8:36 pm  

Its been a good while since I read the bio on Dee by Smith, so I don't remember if she mentions it or not, but how exactly did Dee and Kelley come to possess the mirror? Did Rudolph give it to them?


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amadan-De
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24/03/2011 8:49 pm  

I can't recall any story about how Dee first came into possession of the mirror. I suspect that it's unknown.

A closer look at the BM's page shows that I missed the information about the size of it (left hand side under the picture) - diameter 18.4 cm so my memory was pretty good. πŸ˜‰

Interesting link from it to a page about Obsidian mirrors in their original Aztec context too.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
24/03/2011 10:37 pm  
"MichaelStaley" wrote:
"cactusnick" wrote:
Is there an account of the meeting between Crowley and Gurdjieff in the book? I remember reading something about it on this site as a lurker a while ago, I would really be interested in reading if this is featured in the book in more detail?

The book records two visits by Crowley to Gurdjieff's community at Fontainbleu. On the first occasion, Gurdjieff was absent, but the two men met on the second occasion.

Best wishes,

Michael.

The Three Dangerous Magi is a good read. I believe they're 4 accounts of a meeting between Gurdjieff and Crowley in the book. None of them have been verified. Three of them seem to play up the "demon Crowley" myth. The one given by Nott feels to me more like an allegory on choosing a teacher ( ie not Crowley) than it does an actual meeting. The account by Suster seems the most plausible, it's the least dramatic. In that one he mentions other untrue stories that went around of meetings between the two.


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 Anonymous
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28/03/2011 8:09 pm  

I see the questions on the dimensions of Dee's skrying tool have already been answered. Here's how the mirror is placed in the museum next to Dee's famed Sigillum Dei:

These shots were taken with my Blackberry, hence the low quality.

Amadan-De mentioned their serendipitous discovery of this section of the Museum. For me it was the opposite, I couldn't find the damn thing, and actually gave up on my first visit. Returning the next day, I wandered freely, and then as so often happens in life when we 'let go', I suddenly found myself standing in front of it.

Re The Three Dangerous Magi, I've posted a page on my website covering a few errors/omissions in the book, most pointedly being my failure to acknowledge LAShTAL.com in the Acknowledgments sections (there were other omissions, the perils of producing a 714 page book in five months). Page also contains an extract from Feuerstein's writings on Crowley -- his work Holy Madness is especially recommended (I intend to add an article on 'crazy wisdom' to the site in the near future).

http://www.ptmistlberger.com/the-three-dangerous-magi.php


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 Anonymous
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30/03/2011 3:23 pm  
"Mahakala77" wrote:
Amadan-De mentioned their serendipitous discovery of this section of the Museum. For me it was the opposite, I couldn't find the damn thing, and actually gave up on my first visit. Returning the next day, I wandered freely, and then as so often happens in life when we 'let go', I suddenly found myself standing in front of it.

Well, I was upstairs and asked one of the "guards" if she knew where Dee's artifacts were. She thought a while, then we went to see a history of Britain section, but we didn't find it. Then she told me to ask downstairs.

So I went downstairs and asked another "guard". He thought a moment and said: "Oh, Dee's stuff .. you can find it here!", and then he led me to the place. πŸ™‚


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 Anonymous
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Posts: 0
31/03/2011 9:52 pm  

As I understood it, a "Museum thief spirits away old crystal ball"

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article401766.ece

Attached, a photo I took at the British Museum, while stooping for about an hour gazing into the crystals and mirrors:


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 Anonymous
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31/03/2011 9:54 pm  

PHOTO:


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 Anonymous
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31/03/2011 9:58 pm  

PHOTO:


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James
(@james)
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Posts: 251
31/03/2011 10:12 pm  

Just to add to the stories of bumping into the obsidian mirror. Being a bit English I asked one of the guards if he could direct me to the Elizabethan section. He replied "Oh, you want the Dee stuff, it's over here mate!"

Regards

Jamie


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