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For Sale - THE SECRET RITUALS OF THE O.T.O. BY FRANCIS KING – DANIELS 1973  

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ptoner
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15/02/2016 2:07 pm  

THE SECRET RITUALS OF THE O.T.O. BY FRANCIS KING – DANIELS 1973 EDITION.
PRICE £125 PLUS P&P OF £7.50

Hardcover: 240 pages
Publisher: C W Daniel Co Ltd; First Edition edition (Jun. 1973)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0852071116
ISBN-13: 978-0852071113
Product Dimensions: 22.9 x 15.2 x 2.5 cm

The secret teachings of the occult society and its association with occultist Aleister Crowley. Some Sections Include: Birth and Development of the O.T.O., Occult Templarism, Reuss, Steiner and Aleister Crowley, The O.T.O Since Crowley’s Death, Minerval, The Council of Princes of Jerusalem, The Secret Instructions of the Seventh, Eighth and Ninth Degrees, of The Nature of the Gods, Of the Secret Marriages of Gods with Men, Of the Humunculus, And More.
A scarce occult title that would be a fine addition to any occult library. Been out of print for decades and will not be republished.
Prices for international shipping will be calculated once a secured offer has been accepted.
For sale, condition as seen in the photos. they document the worst aspects of this sale book.

To show your interest please contact me at me@paultoner.com

Check link below for images.
http://www.paultoner.com/WORDPRESS/2016/02/15/for-sale-the-secret-rituals-of-the-oto-by-francis-king/


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ptoner
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27/02/2016 8:43 am  

Can't believe that the OTO just had my auction pulled, for the above book, due to copyright infringements. Seriously, nothing like saying, hey these really aren't the actual rituals.


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Jamie J Barter
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27/02/2016 2:00 pm  

Well apart from some unnecessary minor tinkering around with the rituals this isn't really the O.T.O. either Paul, just basically a bunch of chancers who happened to have got lucky with buying up the bankrupt copyrights, which anyone could have done. (Anybody wanting further information on the post-Germer history can simply read the 2 chapters from the relevant section of the pending revised second edition of this book on Lashtal, located under 'Blogs').

Going by the restrictionist and unthelemic behaviour of the "caliphornian" o.t.o. in the past, this doesn't surprise me at all although I'm not sure they would actually be legally empowered & enabled to do such a thing in any case.

Norma N.Joy Conquest


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Shiva
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27/02/2016 2:47 pm  

And this is a book that was published before any of the current incumbents was even a Minerval. Lotsa masons have been naughty and published the masonic rites, but we don't see the core members running around trying to hid the secrets under the checkerboard carpet.

And this same book is for sale on Amazon right now ($180.00 - 2 minutes ago), and available as a pdf download (also 2 minutes ago) on the www.

Somethin' ain't right in Saladin's camp. It just gets worse and worser.


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ignant666
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27/02/2016 3:46 pm  

Whatever the legitimacy of the (c)OTO, they have no right under US copyright law to prevent resale of a used book. As the name suggests, "copyright" prevents copying of a protected work- it has no applicability to resale of used books. This may or may not apply in the UK or other jurisdictions.

See

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine


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Jamie J Barter
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27/02/2016 4:39 pm  

And this is a book that was published before any of the current incumbents was even a Minerval.

An excellent point. And in addition, the book was in print a full four years before the (c).o.t.o. commenced its activities on October 12th 1977, and as a token of its Francis King-produced veracity it is faithfully recorded that its founder and then-Head, Grady Louis McMurtry, used to conduct initiations with this very self-same publication held in between his hands.

As copyright holders the (c).o.t.o. have woefully wasted such opportuinities as they have managed to appropriate unto themselves over the last 25 years - and in fact there are less Crowley titles available now than there were back in 1991 when they took over these rights. This is an abysmal reflection on them as the supposed 'official' perpetuators & promulgators of the Aleister Crowley Legacy, and they should remain thoroughly ashamed of themsleves.

Roll on (December) 2017,
N Joy


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the_real_simon_iff
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27/02/2016 7:42 pm  

93, Jamie!

I don't think it's an excellent point. There is absolutely nothing strange about the fact that the book was in print before the current copyright owners had specific grades in a specific order or that they even used this very same book to maybe even restart this order. They now have the copyrights, that's all.

Of course, it might be quite disappointing to some, as well as the disappointing situation of some promised books (that's where I am totally on your side). But disappointment is not important in legal matters. The Zappa Family Trust is in some way also a disappointment.

The only excellent point raised in my opinion was by ignant666. I can't imagine that selling a used book is a copyright breach, but of course I don't know for sure.

Love=Law
Lutz


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lashtal
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27/02/2016 8:10 pm  

@the_real_simon_iff wrote:

I don’t think it’s an excellent point. There is absolutely nothing strange about the fact that the book was in print before the current copyright owners had specific grades in a specific order or that they even used this very same book to maybe even restart this order. They now have the copyrights, that’s all.

I agree completely. @ignant666 raised an interesting legal question but jamie's utterly predictable and frequently repeated rant against the OTO is, under the circumstances, both irrelevant and, frankly, rather dull.

As an aside, jamie, as usual, complains about the number of AC books in print, ignoring, as he does, the publishing history of the OTO which at least means that more books than ever before are available because new editions were put into print. In addition, we are promised properly annotated and definitive volumes of the diaries, new editions of the 'Confessions' and 'Magick Without Tears', and so on. Not as quickly as any of us would like, of course, but at least there's a commitment to publish... We need also to consider the quality of what has been produced so far: at its simplest, compare the two 'Equinox' issues containing the most important diaries, expertly edited and skilfully annotated, with Marcus Katz's hopeless unauthorised and expensive edition of just one of the Egyptian ones.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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herupakraath
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27/02/2016 8:30 pm  

@PToner:

There was a U.S. Supreme Court ruling in 1908 called The First Sale Doctrine, that states once a book is purchased it becomes the property of the purchaser, who may resell the book without violating copyright law. The only conceivable way around the ruling (IMO) is to the claim the book was published illegally, which appears impossible given the O.T.O. purchased the copyrights from the British Crown in 1991. If I were you I would inquire which copyright laws are being violated: it doesn't appear to be U.S. law.


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the_real_simon_iff
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27/02/2016 9:16 pm  

93, Jamie!

you wrote: "Roll on (December) 2017"

I am afraid that there won't be anything new in October 2017 except that we get much more useless Crowley print-on-demand editions of books than now, where there are dozens of appalingly poor pre-1923 Crowley books - clearly only to make money.

The things we are all waiting for, the (during Crowley's lifetime) unpublished or unabridged works or letters or manuscripts won't be in the public domain as far as I understand. So be prepared to get way more Drug Fiends, Equinoxes of the Gods, Ollas and what not in questionable editions.

Does anybody here really knows what will be happening?

Love=Law
Lutz

P.S. It seems it is still unclear around the world but for the UK this seems to apply:

Works that were unpublished at the author’s death and remained so until 1 August 1989 are protected by copyright in the U.K. for 50 years from 1 January 1990, or until 31 December 2039, after which they will enter the U.K. public domain.


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Shiva
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27/02/2016 9:33 pm  

"There was a U.S. Supreme Court ruling in 1908 ..."

But ptoner is not in the U.S. He's over there, over there, in Ireland.


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herupakraath
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27/02/2016 10:36 pm  

Further investigation suggests the E.U. also recognizes the first sale doctrine, but it specifies the book be printed legally, which as I suggested above is the likely crux of the O.T.O.'s argument: the book was printed illegally.


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Shiva
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28/02/2016 12:43 am  

Yes. Well, we ALL know that the book was legally printed, and there was nobody to try and prove otherwise (at the time). OTO is simply trying to gain retroactive copyright prohibition against anyone spreading their "secrets" around, long after the "secrets" have become well-known in the marketplace.

We ALL know the story about the farmer who closed his barn door after his cow escaped.

Moo!

cow

That's why they call us cowans.

1.One who does the work of a mason, but has not been apprenticed to the trade.

2. One uninitiated in the secrets of Freemasonry.


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ignant666
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28/02/2016 12:57 am  

If the OTO were to claim that a book published in 1973 was published without their consent, and were to sue the publisher, they would lose because the statute of limitations has long ago run out.

They did not purchase the OTO copyrights until 1991- they were not the owner of anything in 1973, and of course did not exist yet. Having bought the copyrights, they are now in a position to prevent re-publication of a new edition, or could have (in 1991) taken legal action against infringements back to 1986.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with the rights of an owner of a lawfully-published 43 year old used book to sell that used lawfully-produced copy. If the OTO is indeed engaged in attempting to prevent such sales, they do so at their legal jeopardy. Since anyone able to do a google search can find a pdf of the complete book, it seems like a petty waste of time to me.


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Shiva
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28/02/2016 1:18 am  

"it seems like a petty waste of time to me."

It's a knee-jerk reflex. Depending on where the auction is taking place (eBay, etc), anyone can simply contact the auction house (eBay, etc) and simply say they are the copyright holder. Even then, the auction house should probably not stop the auction of a used book (for Horus' sake), but they might also have a knee-jerk reflex in place, and simply move quickly to put out a potential fire.

Who's going to hire an attorney to go up against OTO (if it was really their legal admin and not just some Minerval) in order to sell a single used book?
.


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ignant666
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28/02/2016 3:08 am  

Shiva is clearly right that few can afford to sue over being denied the right to sell a used book even in the face of a frivolous claim, especially against such a litigious organization.

I am however surprised that ebay or others would be willing to remove a 43 year old book on a copyright claim, especially only 3 years after the US Supreme Court came out strongly for a broad reading of first sale doctrine (see Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons, Inc.).

As to cows, barn doors, and "reflex actions", Shiva is certainly right about the first two, and probably as to the third.

With the OTO about to lose their main claim to legitimacy as heirs of AC with the imminent expiration of the copyrights, one could hope they would have better things to do than chase this long-escaped cow. Some might consider that the potential for reputational damage in the small world of those interested in AC's work from pursuing such petty and clearly frivolous claims may well exceed any potential benefit.


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frater_anubis
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28/02/2016 8:11 am  

93
From wikipedia:-

"King's 1973 publication of The Secret Rituals of the O.T.O. infuriated their order head Grady McMurtry, because the fraternity's secrets were being revealed. In an O.T.O newsletter McMurtry stated their policy at the time: "We do not endorse the publication of this material because the so called 9th degree section does not include the paper (titled IX degree Emblems and Modes of Use) which Aleister Crowley handed me at 93 Jermyn St circa 1943-44 e.v. without which the whole thing is nonsense." Francis King is thought to have been given the rest of the rituals (sans the missing one) by Gerald Yorke"

The pdf version which is freely available on the web does contain the IX deg Emblems and Modes of Use

Regards to you all
Johnny


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Jamie J Barter
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28/02/2016 8:29 pm  

@Lutz from # 95438:

I don’t think it’s an excellent point. There is absolutely nothing strange about the fact that the book was in print before the current copyright owners had specific grades in a specific order or that they even used this very same book to maybe even restart this order. They now have the copyrights, that’s all.

I thought it was an excellent point because it brought out the irony that the current copyright holders did not hold either the full "man of Earth" initiations, or even the actual documentation of these basic-level rituals at the time. Having then acquired them one way or another, in a display of "I'm all right Jack"ness they later make haste to try to cast aside the ladder so no one else can make the same use. But which, as has been brought out, is completely pointless as all of the O.T.O.'s "secret" documents are very easily available in pdf form on the internet anyway.

Incidentally, you can tell the deep degree of McMurtry's abiding interest & commitment (with regard to the activation of his "Emergency" power and letters) by the fact that it took him a period of 15 years from the death of his 'predecessor' (Germer) to when he finally managed to reactivate and kick-start the Agape Lodge for the third time (and which later transmogrified into the (c) OTO Inc. we recognise today.)

The only excellent pointraised in my opinion was by ignant666

Well this of course is the marvel of Lashtalk. We can disagree on points which we each find excellent, and agree to disagree with complete harmony, like perfect ladies and gentlemen. On reflection, maybe "excellent" was slighty superlative in terms of the level of my lavishing of its praise (if anyone is still wanting to cavil with me about that), but I still think it was a pretty good point to bring up, all the same.

@Lashtal:

Jamie’s utterly predictable and frequently repeated rant against the OTO is, under the circumstances, both irrelevant and, frankly, rather dull.

Well unfortunately nobody else seems disposed to make such comments these days. I would far rather not have to be the (only) one each time who points out the double-standards going on (at least to the extent that it becomes predictable and tiresome to some), but I can't see other people rushing forward to make the same points. Perhaps it is just one more manifestation of the ongoing lassitude & lethargy which affects so many people of action these days. It might also be the case that those who might get complimentary 'freebies' tossed in their direction as sweeteners from the said incorporation (as I myself did at one time) can sometimes unfortunately find their principled neutrality otherwise compromised. I mention no names to protect the guilty.

As an aside, jamie, as usual, complains about the number of AC books in print, ignoring, as he does, the publishing history of the OTO which at least means that more books than ever before are available because new editions were put into print.

And when they fell out of print, did not receive a further run so that they were then able to stay in print - continuously. Like, for example, currently being done with L. Ron Hubbard's, by those charged with perpetuating his legacy..

In addition, we are promised properly annotated and definitive volumes

Exactly. We have been promised (continually) for the last 25 years (at least). I suppose this rather puts some of the whingeing about the delayed appearance of RTC's final publication into perspective...

of the diaries, new editions of the ‘Confessions’ and ‘Magick Without Tears’, and so on.

The diaries reproduced in "Volume Four" of The Equinox, & the editing of Magick Without Tears, were both produced just as expertly and skilfully by Motta's team years before (which incidentallty included several who switched allegiances and went over to bat for the Caliphate side: James Wasserman, Martin Starr, J.D. Gunther...)

Not as quickly as any of us would like, of course, but at least there’s a commitment to publish…

This must qualify as the under-statement of the (last quarter) century? If we can't have the definitive volumes yet, couldn't we at least have some interim ones to be going on with?

We need also to consider the quality of what has been produced so far: at its simplest, compare the two ‘Equinox’ issues containing the most important diaries, expertly edited and skilfully annotated, with Marcus Katz’s hopeless unauthorised and expensive edition of just one of the Egyptian ones.

@ Lutz from # 95443:

I am afraid that there won’t be anything new in October 2017 except that we get much more useless Crowley print-on-demand editions of books than now, where there are dozens of appalingly poor pre-1923 Crowley books – clearly only to make money. ... So be prepared to get way more Drug Friends, Equinoxes of the Gods, Ollas and what not in questionable editions.

Well I think it has been established pretty clearly through sandyboy's personal experience that this is not a particularly straightforward or successful way to make money. And if they are "appallingly poor" and "questionable" editions, no one is going to buy them and quite rightly so - it's a simple enough rule in operation here, and therefore the incentive on everyone's part will be to produce editions which are as attractive and as academically thorough as they can be. As I put in Chapter 11 of the History of the O.T.O. myself (q.v.) looking at it from the perspective of the other angle, If the (c).o.t.o. succeed in establishing for themselves a reputation for excellence, then people will naturally gravitate towards their products as a matter of course; if on the other hand they are inferior, these same people will go elsewhere for their Thelemic materials and must be allowed to have the freedom and the opportunity of so doing.
To take one example of this freedom of choice, I quite liked the Symonds & Grant produced edition of Magick in Theory and Practice, also from 1973, which has now been suppressed by the current copyrightholder. I found it contained its own footnotes of value, and at times preferred to use this when the coto-produced Book Four proved itself to be unnecessarily wieldy and cumbersome to easily peruse. Ditto (for different reasons) with Israel Regardie's version of the Liber (A)L Commentaries, The Law Is For All.

The things we are all waiting for, the (during Crowley’s lifetime) unpublished or unabridged works or letters or manuscripts won’t be in the public domain as far as I understand.

I am beginning to doubt they will even be published at all by the coto, on past and present showing. How depressing. How much longer than 25 years do they need? Thank goodness there are mavericks such as The Naughty Nun & Black Flag prepared to post this material onto the internet.

Since anyone able to do a google search can find a pdf of the complete book, it seems like a petty waste of time to me.

Who’s going to hire an attorney to go up against OTO (if it was really their legal admin and not just some Minerval) in order to sell a single used book?

This is just the latest example of a decades-long policy of pointless belligerence and heavy-handedness by the (c).o.t.o.. Nobody (apart from those who have already thrown in their lot with them) is impressed by such bully-boy tactics - and cowardice, too: in that I notice the (c).o.t.o. has no inclination whatsoever to take on the might of amazon?!

N.Joy


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lashtal
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28/02/2016 9:20 pm  

Thank goodness there are mavericks such as The Naughty Nun & Black Flag prepared to post this material onto the internet.

Given that you and I both know who was behind 'The Naughty Nun' and 'Black Flag', I'm very surprised that you chose to mention that here, Jamie...

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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Jamie J Barter
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01/03/2016 7:02 pm  

@lashtal:

"Thank goodness there are mavericks such as The Naughty Nun & Black Flag prepared to post this material onto the internet."

Given that you and I both know who was behind ‘The Naughty Nun’ and ‘Black Flag’, I’m very surprised that you chose to mention that here, Jamie…

I don’t know why it should come across as surprising, but to me it was only a coincidence that the identity of the Black Flag/ Naughty Nun responsible for publishing such material in the past also happened to be known to (some) Lashtalians in the present (I myself only knew this comparatively recently.) In my opinion, though, this ‘imprint’ should be congratulated by the (Thelemic) community for providing a valuable service in making items not previously or easily available accessible to them, rather than allowing for it to be leaned upon by the musclebound ‘heavies’ of the ©.o.t.o.’s legal henchmen. There are obviously understandable reservations on the part of these johnny-come-latelys regarding the publication of the initiatory rituals themselves, but the same principle extends far wider than this to apply to cover Crowley’s oeuvre taken as a whole.

The first half of my quotation was also omitted above: “I am beginning to doubt they [= the (during Crowley’s lifetime) unpublished or unabridged works or letters or manuscripts] will even be published AT ALL by the ©.o.t.o,, on past and present showing. How depressing. How much longer than 25 years do they need?” This omission, I feel, obscured an enormously valid point: for is it, or is it not, the fact that the prime duty of an order or organization directly charged with promulgating the legacy - i.e., the writings - of Aleister Crowley, should be to keep ALL of his writings in print? This includes not only ones which have achieved previous publication, but ones which have never yet been published in any form, of which there are still many & concerning which I have previously remarked in some detail.

The period from 1991 to date already represents this (over a) quarter of a century for the ©.o.t.o. to have been doing the right thing. Unfortunately it is by no means clear whether we may have to wait until 2039 for a final resolution, or whether it might just be next year after all. There will probably be another resource-wasting legal carnival in order to establish the precedent of a test case, which in itself (and irrespective of which way the decision were to go) would hardly improve the matter of the order’s current PR. Their prime duty is not in gallivanting around and cavorting in court, but in publishing the material – with everything else coming secondary.

@Shiva # 94950:

"Who’s going to hire an attorney to go up against OTO (if it was really their legal admin and not just some Minerval) in order to sell a single used book?"

This is just the latest example of a decades-long policy of pointless belligerence and heavy-handedness by the (c).o.t.o.. Nobody is impressed by such bully-boy tactics - and cowardice, too: in that I notice the (c).o.t.o. has no inclination whatsoever to take on the might of amazon?!

Paul (Toner) - is your own, private, personal copy of this book still up for sale, or have you been forced to bow to the unacceptable pressure of intimidation & been obliged to withdraw it?

In which case: Bully for you, bully for me, bully for all of us!
N Joy


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Shiva
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01/03/2016 7:41 pm  

When OTO ecides to stop an auction, they simply contact eBay and eBay stops the auction. The seller remains passive and doesn't have to withdraw anything - it's all done for him - or her. It's like Magick!

As was pointed out, they don't seem to have the same muscle with Amazon.


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obscurus
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16/03/2016 12:20 am  

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