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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
19/01/2007 5:21 pm  

I am looking to find a reasonably priced copy of 'The Mystical and Magical System of the A.: A.:' by James A Eshelman. I guess this was done in a limited printing and at the moment goes for astronomical prices whenever it's listed for sale. In addition I'd like to find: 'Practical Sigil Magic' by Frater UD (does anyone know if this might be reprinted any time soon?), the first few 'Red Flame' volumes by J Cornelius, 'Operation Mind Control' by Walter Bowart, 'The Early Works of AO Spare', 'Autobiography of a World Savior' by Mel Lyman, 'Secret Rituals of the OTO' by Francis King (I was lucky enough to get 'OTO Rituals and Sex Magick' on IHO Books but would love to acquire this rare King gem), 'The Devil's Avenger' by Burton Wolfe, 'Olla' by AC, 'Yoga and Magick (Orriflamme)' by Motta, anything on the Process Church by Robert DeGrimston, 'The Mysteries of Magic' by AE Waite, and any of the 'Matrix' volumes by Val Valerian.
I recently bought Magia Sexualis by Hugh B Urban and would recommend it highly.


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jdes
 jdes
(@jdes)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 61
19/01/2007 6:23 pm  

See what you mean! Quick search on Abebooks produces 2 copies of 'The Mystical and Magical System of the A.: A.:' by James A Eshelman at £208 ($400) and £626 ($1200)...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
19/01/2007 6:31 pm  

93!

"sirius" wrote:
I am looking to find a reasonably priced copy of 'The Mystical and Magical System of the A.: A.:' by James A Eshelman. I guess this was done in a limited printing and at the moment goes for astronomical prices whenever it's listed for sale. In addition I'd like to find: 'Practical Sigil Magic' by Frater UD (does anyone know if this might be reprinted any time soon?), the first few 'Red Flame' volumes by J Cornelius, 'Operation Mind Control' by Walter Bowart, 'The Early Works of AO Spare', 'Autobiography of a World Savior' by Mel Lyman, 'Secret Rituals of the OTO' by Francis King (I was lucky enough to get 'OTO Rituals and Sex Magick' on IHO Books but would love to acquire this rare King gem), 'The Devil's Avenger' by Burton Wolfe, 'Olla' by AC, 'Yoga and Magick (Orriflamme)' by Motta, anything on the Process Church by Robert DeGrimston, 'The Mysteries of Magic' by AE Waite, and any of the 'Matrix' volumes by Val Valerian.
I recently bought Magia Sexualis by Hugh B Urban and would recommend it highly.

"reasonably priced" is a very subjective concept. if a book is sought after, hard to get and of exceptional quality, then very high prices for it are reasonable. 😉 this is not to say that you cant find it cheap, but you have to be lucky & get it from someone who is not aware of the book's real value.


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spike418
(@spike418)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 216
19/01/2007 6:46 pm  

Thelema

The Eshelman book is listed on ebay today! Current bidding at 102 dollars with 6 days to go. Guessing its gonna rocket and I have enough to read at the moment 😉

ALWays

Spike


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Anonymous
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Joined: 1 second ago
Posts: 0
20/01/2007 12:55 pm  

Hi Sirius,

93

I contacted Llewellyn Publications myself and they told me that Frater
U .'. D .'. Practical Sigil Magic will not be reprinted.
I just bought a copy of the A .'. A .'. book you mentioned in hardback for $500 which was pricey for me but it does seem to have been a bargain nonetheless. Watch out for the £206 ($400) version of James Eshelman's book on Abebooks as it is a "comb binding" and not the hardcover version. This will probably be an earlier edition as they were not printed as hardbacks.
I highly recommend James Eshelman's book, I'm actually reading it just now! It has given me a deeper insight into what is actually expected in terms of the work and commitment involved, which I have not found in any other book on the subject, not even in Crowley's work.

All the best with the book finding!

93 93/93


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Proteus
(@proteus)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 243
20/01/2007 4:28 pm  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Is it unreasonable for me to think that books that are not being reprinted and are unavailable from the publisher (i.e. books that the author and publisher consciously decided to no longer make available and profit from their sale) could be made open source by people that did manage to get a copy?

I have every respect for an author's work, publishers' rights, and support the copyright laws. However, these arguments fall flat when the books are not even made available to purchase. No one benefits from this except the speculators.

John

Love is the law, love under will.


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lashtal
(@lashtal)
Owner and Editor Admin
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 5329
20/01/2007 6:18 pm  
"Proteus" wrote:
Is it unreasonable for me to think that books that are not being reprinted and are unavailable from the publisher (i.e. books that the author and publisher consciously decided to no longer make available and profit from their sale) could be made open source by people that did manage to get a copy?

Yes, it is unreasonable. On so many levels.

"Proteus" wrote:
I have every respect for an author's work, publishers' rights, and support the copyright laws. However, these arguments fall flat when the books are not even made available to purchase. No one benefits from this except the speculators.

And the author and editors.

But you know all this anyway, I'm sure.

Owner and Editor
LAShTAL


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Proteus
(@proteus)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 243
20/01/2007 7:18 pm  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

And the author and editors.

But you know all this anyway, I'm sure.

You give me too much credit, Paul! I really don't understand it... I would have thought that all people involved with the publishing of a book (the author, editor, publisher, etc.) see no benefit if the book is not being published. How do they benefit by after-market speculation? I imagine it provides them with absolutely nothing but (hopefully) the impetus to issue another printing. I'm not in that business so maybe there's something I'm missing?

This is not how it works in the technical community, in my experience. Researchers seem very happy to share their work, even at no cost, if it is no longer available in published form provided it is properly acknowledged.

John

Love is the law, love under will.


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Michael Staley
(@michael-staley)
MANIO - it's all in the egg
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 4100
20/01/2007 10:15 pm  

Whether the publisher anticipates reprinting or not is, I think, beside the point. The work remains the intellectual property of the author, and it is for he or she to dispose of as they see fit. They may wish to issue the work in another form, or to await a proposal from another publisher. Either way, it remains their property, the intentions of the present publisher notwithstanding.

I have some sympathy with your proposals along the lines of open source material. In an ideal world there would be ready access to knowledge and information. However, until Utopia beckons, authors have to make a living like the rest of us, and their work is theirs to exploit.

Publishers, on the other hand, are clearly parasites.


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wulfram
(@wulfram)
Member
Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 137
20/01/2007 10:44 pm  

Words of pure wisdom, Mr. Staley... pure wisdom.


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Proteus
(@proteus)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 243
22/01/2007 1:32 am  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Thanks for your response, Michael.

So far, I've been lucky to get most of the works I've wanted through friends and associates - yes, legitimately. More than once, I've intoned the powerful words 'Please' and 'Thank you' and scraped up a complimentary edition of what otherwise would have cost handsomely.

Chumbley? now that's another story...

John (spare Azoetia anyone?)

Love is the law, love under will.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
06/03/2007 7:38 pm  

93

As luck would have it, I currently have Eshelman's "Mystical & Magical System of the A.A." for sale on EBay. For some reason I haven't been able to get it to list internationally, but you can find it here:

[Moderator Note: This post edited - see main forum page. "Please note that the Forums are not intended to provide publicity for Auctions: posts relating to Auctions will be deleted."]

Anyone intereted, please have a look and keep me from the poorhouse!

93 93/93

Todd


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
Tangin
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 3357
06/03/2007 10:46 pm  

93
I wanted to respond to some of the remarks about copyright above.
While given the Draconian nature of some current copyright statutes (the US DMCA, eg), it is clearly prudent for lashtal to avoid anything that might be construed as copyright infringement, it is important as an intellectual matter to distinguish so-called intellectual property from other forms of property with which we are more familiar, such as real property and personal property. While it has been argued that _all_ property rights are simply grants of authority by the state ("Property is theft" (Proudhon)), so-called property rights in intellectual works are quite clearly this: within certain limits, the state grants a temporary monopoly right to reproduce a work for a temporary period (originally 14 years in the Statute of Anne, the first (18th c.) UK copyright law), later (for most of the 20th century in both the US and UK so far as I know) 28 years, now the current life of the author plus 75 years period. But ALL works eventually fall into the public domain: after a time, anyone may freely reprint them. This should make clear that so-called intellectual property is very different than real property: if you buy land, it does not become public after a time, for example.
In US law, the purpose of all this is quite explicit: "to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries...", ie, the point is to benefit society; any gains for creators are for this purpose only. This may be different in UK law, although the underlying rationale of copyright is clearly the same.
Where the rights-holder (very, very seldom the author) fails to exploit those rights by making a copyright work available, there is a strong argument for a scheme of compulsory licensing, similar to that governing so-called "cover versions" of songs. When a song has been issued, others are free to issue cover versions, but must pay royalties at statutory rates. Some other countries allow this approach with sound recordings that are no longer available; this is the basis of many oldies compilations- if the rights holders file a claim, royalties must be paid from that date forward. Canada allows this with any copyright work that has been "orphaned".
The limits of copyright are not some sort of moral matter: they are a matter of political negotiations among the interested parties; thus the common term Mickey Mouse Protection Act for the current US copyright statute, enacted after major lobbying by Disney, because the early adventures of said rodent were about to enter the public domain. Naturally, the balance struck reflects the greater political weight of publishers, record companies, Hollywood, the software industry, etc. as against the reader/listener/consumer. The fact that this is so does not confer moral weight on what large corporations are able to achieve in the political sphere.
Having gotten all that off my chest, I cannot understand why Eshelman doesn't re-issue the AA book, given the insane prices on the used market for a book that sold for $40 4-5 years ago, especially given print-on-demand technology that makes issuing a book essentially financially risk-free (as if there's much chance of losing money publishing a book that regularly sells for $600+!!).
He never replied to an email I sent him a couple years ago asking if he had any plans to reissue it.
93 93/93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
13/03/2007 1:08 pm  

If you don't mind settling for the pdf format, I recommend you take a trip to www.sacred-magick.com. You'll have to become a member to download, but you'll find at least two of the titles there. Godspeed! 8)


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
20/02/2012 5:55 am  

Hello,

I have a copy of 'Yoga and Magick (Orriflamme)' by Motta if you are still interested.

Thanks,

S.


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Frater_HPK
(@frater_hpk)
Member
Joined: 16 years ago
Posts: 104
20/02/2012 7:00 am  
"morphon" wrote:
Hi Sirius,

93

I contacted Llewellyn Publications myself and they told me that Frater
U .'. D .'. Practical Sigil Magic will not be reprinted.
I just bought a copy of the A .'. A .'. book you mentioned in hardback for $500 which was pricey for me but it does seem to have been a bargain nonetheless. Watch out for the £206 ($400) version of James Eshelman's book on Abebooks as it is a "comb binding" and not the hardcover version. This will probably be an earlier edition as they were not printed as hardbacks.
I highly recommend James Eshelman's book, I'm actually reading it just now! It has given me a deeper insight into what is actually expected in terms of the work and commitment involved, which I have not found in any other book on the subject, not even in Crowley's work.

All the best with the book finding!

93 93/93

I have this early edition. Coil binded. not hardcover.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
23/02/2012 9:12 am  

93
The magical and mystical system of the AA is for sale on amazon for £49. It's an easy book to find cheap and there are a number of copies for sale on the Internet for less than £55.
93 93/93


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