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Wanted: Tarot de Marseille (Dussere Dodal)  

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einDoppelganger
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14/02/2011 2:45 am  

Hello All,

If you happen to have a copy of this deck and are willing to part with it please PM me.

Deck can be seen here
http://www.aeclectic.net/tarot/cards/dussere-dodal/

Thanks!
Scott


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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15/02/2011 7:53 pm  

How much is this deck worth?


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einDoppelganger
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15/02/2011 8:08 pm  

With most of these things what the buyer is willing to pay and the seller accept. Do you have this specific deck? PM me if you do.


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michaelclarke18
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16/02/2011 8:50 pm  

I would try The Tarot Garden, they can usually get most things.

https://www.tarotgarden.com/


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michaelclarke18
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16/02/2011 8:54 pm  

The Thomson-Leng Tarot will always be my favourite. They are a little 'dated', but in a way that makes me think of the kind of world that Crowley was living in - British Empire and all that.


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einDoppelganger
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16/02/2011 9:06 pm  

Those are lovely Michael!

Thanks so much for the lead, I will try tarot garden 🙂

Cheers

Scott


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michaelclarke18
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17/02/2011 9:49 pm  

Sorry the link should have been:-

http://www.tarotgarden.com/

You could also try Hava Getz - there are some stunning decks there.

http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~daf/i-p-c-s.org/faq/gallery.php?choice=12


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James
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18/02/2011 11:47 am  

I love the 'Chat du Marseille'!


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michaelclarke18
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18/02/2011 4:29 pm  

This looks like a funny one too:-


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
18/02/2011 7:52 pm  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
With most of these things what the buyer is willing to pay and the seller accept. Do you have this specific deck? PM me if you do.

My wife, who owns a huge collection of Tarot decks, has this deck. She found it at a street fair in south america for about $15US. Being somewhat of an expert on the subject, she was overjoyed at the find, and knows its a valuable deck, so I was just wondering what it would go for these days.

Sorry to get your hopes up, though, but there's no chance in hell that she'd ever part with it.

93
Swami Anand Nisarg


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Azidonis
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18/02/2011 8:08 pm  

93,

Ein, are you looking for an original one of these decks, or how close to it ...?

93 93/93


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einDoppelganger
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18/02/2011 11:33 pm  

Hi Azidonis,

Id love an original of this reprint edition which I believe came from the 1990s. If you have a lead or an idea definitely PM me. I will be interested in any possibilities.

Cheers
scott


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
19/02/2011 12:43 am  
"Swamiji" wrote:
Being somewhat of an expert on the subject, she was overjoyed at the find, and knows its a valuable deck, so I was just wondering what it would go for these days.

I've seen them go for a few up to several hundred US. They are very rare, and would likely go for a lot more if the Marseille market wasn't so small.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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19/02/2011 12:58 am  

I only own one Marseille deck, but I did some looking into the subject before buying it; I went with the Camoin-Jodorowsky deck, which seems to me to be one of the best available. Camoin is the heir of the publisher of one of the actual Marseille decks in the 18th century and Jordorowsky is generally considered to be a significant authority.
Just an FYI.

Although that Dussere Dodal deck does look like it would be worth owning if it was in print...


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AdoniaZanoni
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21/02/2011 7:17 am  

I am glad to see someone is interested in the traditional tarot. I certainly wish the Thomas-Leng Tarot was reprinted, this compliments the Rider-Waite Tarot.

I too have tried to find the Tarot de Marseille (Dussere Dodal).
I have various historical versions and reconstructions of Marseille from Scarabeo to Heron to Piatnik. No luck in acquiring the Dussere reproduction. I was lucky to find the Tarot of Paris and many other gems.

Camoin, Hadar and Grimaud versions are the top three reconstructions.

Below this link offers a reconstruction of the Jean Noblet and Dodal Tarot.

Jean-Claude Flornoy tries to produce how the cards would look as if they were new back in that time period. Tarot of Jacques Viéville is his next project.
http://letarot.com /"> http://letarot.com/

I have been trying to restore the tarot interruptions prior to the Golden Danwn with Aleph representing the Magician as originally intended by the French School.

This site below tries to bring traditional authenticity to the Tarot.
http://www.tarot-authentique.co m"> http://www.tarot-authentique.com

I find the comments on Crowley's and Waite's Tarot amusing.


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michaelclarke18
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21/02/2011 11:17 am  

I certainly wish the Thomas-Leng Tarot was reprinted, this compliments the Rider-Waite Tarot.

Copies are regularly sold on ebay. They usually aren't expensive, generally around 60 - 80 GBP (UK Pounds)


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AdoniaZanoni
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23/02/2011 4:54 am  

Copies are regularly sold on ebay. They usually aren't expensive, generally around 60 - 80 GBP (UK Pounds)

I checked on e-bay and there was an incomplete set of 74 cards available. I would prefer the complete set with the original box. I still wish US Games would reprint the Thomas-Leng Tarot along with the Knapp-Hall Tarot. I do have a complete Knapp-Hall Tarot from US Games from the 1980's, but I would want to see if they improve the printing quality to match the original since the original published in 1929 was of better quality.

US Games published in 2010 a colorized Brotherhood of Light Tarot. This was a pleasant surprise. They also reprinted Hermetic Tarot, this was different than the orginal in terms of size and cleaning. The only disappointment in the new edition is they messed up on the Hebrew of the 7 of Pentacles having the name MTzREL twice, instead of MTzREL & HRChEL. The original printing has this Hebrew correct.

Dusserre published two versions of the Marseilles. There is the Historical reproduction and the Grimaud version. The Grimaud version I have is published by Frances Cartes. I certainly would want both versions published by Dussere. See link below.

http://www.manteia-online.dk/deckreviews/dr012.ht m"> http://www.manteia-online.dk/deckreviews/dr012.htm

Also I am surprised no one found humor in "Would you trust this man with your Tarot deck?"(Aleister Crowley)
http://www.tarot-authentique.com /"> http://www.tarot-authentique.com/


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
23/02/2011 5:46 am  
"Nemoide" wrote:
I only own one Marseille deck, but I did some looking into the subject before buying it; I went with the Camoin-Jodorowsky deck, which seems to me to be one of the best available. Camoin is the heir of the publisher of one of the actual Marseille decks in the 18th century and Jordorowsky is generally considered to be a significant authority.
Just an FYI.

Although that Dussere Dodal deck does look like it would be worth owning if it was in print...

My wife has mentioned that while the Camoin deck is nice, the mentality surrounding it largely thanks to Jodorowsky is quite dubious; Jodorowsky has a strong agenda to try to argue that not only is Tarot historically magical, but also that the only really true and original mystically-inspired tarot is the Camoin, and of course that it fit into the esoteric vision Jodorowsky happens to espouse.
Thus, he ends up "reading" stuff into the Camoin that is almost certainly not there; seeing objects or symbols that are probably nothing more than quirks in art or colouring, claiming that what is probably a fold in a robe is actually an egg because said egg has deep spiritual significance, etc.

93
Swami Anand Nisarg


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michaelclarke18
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24/02/2011 9:56 am  

Jean-Claude Flornoy tries to produce how the cards would look as if they were new back in that time period. Tarot of Jacques Viéville is his next project.
http://letarot.com/

I may well purchase one of those decks - thanks for posting.


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AdoniaZanoni
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04/03/2011 8:20 pm  

I may well purchase one of those decks - thanks for posting.

Jean-Claude Flornoy ‘s Jean Dodal Tarot is available for purchase from Tarot Garden. The Jean Noblet Tarot is pending reorder from Tarot Garden.

The Jean Noblet precedes the traditional Marseille. It is smaller in size and has more detail compared to the Dodal. Jean Claude had to recreate the missing sword suit cards: six to ten of swords.

Both decks look authentic in terms of the printing production which is unique attempt to restore how these tarots might have looked new back then. See website linked in the previous posts.

As stated earlier Dusserre published two versions of the Marseilles. There is the Historical reproduction and the Grimaud version. The Grimaud version I have is published by Frances Cartes and I compared this one to the reproduction by Dusserre. I would prefer Dusserre over Frances Cartes because their production is clearer and the colors are not as muddy. Still I do not know how the original 1930 version of Paul Marteau’s appears.

Finding the Dusserre versions appears difficult, one would be lucky if one can find one at a decent price without the seller not knowing the rarity of these decks.

My wife has mentioned that while the Camoin deck is nice, the mentality surrounding it largely thanks to Jodorowsky is quite dubious; Jodorowsky has a strong agenda to try to argue that not only is Tarot historically magical, but also that the only really true and original mystically-inspired tarot is the Camoin, and of course that it fit into the esoteric vision Jodorowsky happens to espouse.

Thus, he ends up "reading" stuff into the Camoin that is almost certainly not there; seeing objects or symbols that are probably nothing more than quirks in art or colouring, claiming that what is probably a fold in a robe is actually an egg because said egg has deep spiritual significance, etc.

93
Swami Anand Nisarg

As for Jodorowsky’s book, I am mixed. I was disappointed it did not have information of the French School pre-Eliphas Levi or enhanced Papus, Levi, Wirth, Christian and de Guaita view of the Marseille Tarot. I was more interested in his feeling of being exposed to anti-Semitism, meeting Andre Breton, owning the Arthur Waite Tarot, finding an old Marseille deck than his methodology which appears his own invention. I have had a hard time applying his methodology for my working,

As stated earlier, I disagree with the Golden Dawn attributions of the Hebrew and symbols to the Major Arcana. I am probably in the minority with this view. For example the Sun is assigned the astrological symbol the Sun, but the Moon is assigned Pisces. The Moon should be assigned the planet the Moon and the High Priestess Virgo. The Hermit should be Saturn. The Chariot should be Mars.

Also Aleph should be the magician based on his posture in MarseilleWaite. Crowley even had a rejected Magician card that had the Magician in a swastika form. Shin should be the fool. Waite has a hidden Shin in the Fool’s robe.

Here is a link of Mark Filipas’s research into this. He assigns the Fool to Tau. He also relies on the Italian decks Tarocchino Milanese.

http://www.spiritone.com/~mfilipas/Masquerade/Essays/alpha.html

A good book that compares all the symbolism French, Golden Dawn, Crowley and even Brotherhood of Light is Gareth Knight’s Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism. Papus, Levi, Oswald Wirth, and Paul Christian have their own books as an alternative on this symbolism. The Brotherhood of Light created their Egyptian system at the end of the 20th century.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
04/03/2011 10:15 pm  

93

I think that the GD or Crowley attributions of the Tarot are useful in the sense of the study of Kabbalah, but in a way can become counter-productive in terms of looking at the Arcana itself, and the way that the major arcana essentially tell a story from beginning to end of the "path to enlightenment". In that sense, the kabbalistic attributions tend mostly to get in the way.
My youtube lecture series on the Tarot focuses on that progressive aspect of the Trumps, rather than focusing on the kabbalistic symbolism.

93!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
05/03/2011 4:38 am  
"wolf354" wrote:
93,

"Swamiji" wrote:
93

I think that the GD or Crowley attributions of the Tarot are useful in the sense of the study of Kabbalah, but in a way can become counter-productive in terms of looking at the Arcana itself, and the way that the major arcana essentially tell a story from beginning to end of the "path to enlightenment". In that sense, the kabbalistic attributions tend mostly to get in the way.
My youtube lecture series on the Tarot focuses on that progressive aspect of the Trumps, rather than focusing on the kabbalistic symbolism.

93!

I completely disagree with you, to work with the Thoth Deck a solid knowledge of the Western Qabalah is a requirement, but if you have it and with practice (at least for me) most decks start to look worthless for a reading.
The Qabalah aims for much more than a technical study, it can structure your thoughts and strengthen your thinking.
In the end the reader should choose what deck he/she prefers and feels more in tune to work with.
Generalizations of how great the smurfs deck is for everyone ... oh well, lol!
Best regards,

93

I'm not sure in what sense you are "disagreeing" with me in that post.
I don't think I disagree with any of the things you said in your response, so there must be some misunderstanding going on.

93!


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einDoppelganger
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Joined: 12 years ago
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05/03/2011 9:52 am  

I purchased Jean-Claude Flornoy ‘s Jean Dodal Tarot from his website above. Its a really nice design and high quality printing. I do like some other decks with more color washes but the stark quality of this is in keeping with what I wanted. That is an unencumbered look at an original Tarot that would have been seen and worked by the Occult Revivalists who further developed it into the 19tgh century. Going a bit closer to the source to help understand where it has gone since.

Thanks for the recommendations all. Im still looking for the original deck posted above so let me know if one surfaces.

Best,

S


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AdoniaZanoni
(@adoniazanoni)
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20/05/2011 8:51 am  
"einDoppelganger" wrote:
I purchased Jean-Claude Flornoy ‘s Jean Dodal Tarot from his website above. Its a really nice design and high quality printing. I do like some other decks with more color washes but the stark quality of this is in keeping with what I wanted. That is an unencumbered look at an original Tarot that would have been seen and worked by the Occult Revivalists who further developed it into the 19tgh century. Going a bit closer to the source to help understand where it has gone since.

Thanks for the recommendations all. Im still looking for the original deck posted above so let me know if one surfaces.

Best,

S

Good news for me. Back in April, I was able to purchase both the Tarot de Marseille (Dussere Dodal) and the Le Tarot de Marseille de Paul Marteau for around $63.00.

I now own both these decks as shown on this link below.
http://www.manteia-online.dk/deckreviews/dr012.htm

When this request was posted on Lashtal, I decided to see how I could obtain the Tarot de Marseille (Dussere Dodal) that went out of print in 1992. I tried with no luck around 2003-2004 to obtain this. In April, I e-mailed to inquire various stores one in Italy and the other in Britain. The store in Britain had one copy left that was brand new with a brand new box. They kept this in their inventory but never made it available for sale because the little white book was missing. They had both Dussere editions.

A few years ago, I noticed Tarot de Marseille (Dussere Dodal) was on e-bay which the seller posted on a tarot forum. The price was very,very high due to bidding. I am lucky to obtain this for $31.50.

Both decks are remarkable. Tarot de Marseille (Dussere Dodal) represents antiquity and the other one is a beautiful 1930 facsimile of a Paul Marteau possibly owned by Peter Hammer. The 1930 facsimile revivals Camoin-Jordorowsky in color tone and this edition is far prettier than the Grimaud Tarot of Marseille.

While you may be disappointed you have not found this, I was disappointed I lacked the funds to purchase an 1845 Suzanne Bernardin Tarot of Marseille on e-bay. It is upsetting that historical facsimile decks are not being produced. I would buy an 1845 Suzanne Bernardin Tarot of Marseille facsimile. Today’s tarot market is flooded with superfluous tarots that do not reflect the traditional tarot and represent the flavor of the month.

This Russian website lists all the occult tarots from Court de Gebelin.to Franz Bardon. This is a time when real occultists were developing the tarot for their system.
http://www.green-door.narod.ru/tarotocc.html

One deck I would want is a 2003 Russian Tarot by G.O. Mebes. Mebes was a student of Papus and took Papus’ French teachings to Russia.
http://a.trionfi.eu/WWPCM/decks05/d02318/d02318.htm

Here is an article reviewing the Jean Dodal 1701 Restoration by Jean-Claude Flornoy. It has pictures of the box and cards of the Tarot de Marseille (Dussere Dodal).

http://newsletter.tarotstudies.org/2010/01/1701-dodal-restored/


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einDoppelganger
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20/05/2011 9:57 am  
"AdoniaZanoni" wrote:
When this request was posted on Lashtal, I decided to see how I could obtain the Tarot de Marseille (Dussere Dodal) that went out of print in 1992.

Congrats on that 😛

Still looking : )


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michaelclarke18
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20/05/2011 11:57 am  

from:-
http://www.manteia-online.dk/deckreviews/dr012.htm

The Jean Dodal pack is originally woodblock printed and stencil colored in those green, yellow, red and blue colors, which are usually found in decks with this pattern.

I'd love to see a deck using the original (slightly crude) wood-block, wood print method and hand coloured....
I'm rather bored with the usual graphically perfect, slick highly professionally produced deck. I'd like something rougher, more individual.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
21/05/2011 2:43 am  

The Jean Payen Tarot is essentially the same; maybe a pack of those is available…


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AdoniaZanoni
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Posts: 72
29/05/2011 3:36 am  
"michaelclarke18" wrote:

Jean-Claude Flornoy tries to produce how the cards would look as if they were new back in that time period. Tarot of Jacques Viéville is his next project.
http://letarot.com/

I may well purchase one of those decks - thanks for posting.

I am very sad to hear Jean-Claude Flornoy recently passed away at age 60.

His reproduced antiquity tarot decks with color and printing of the most superb quality.

His Jean Noblet Tarot started new esoteric studies.

http://www.fourhares.com/tarot/letter_trumps.html
http://www.fourhares.com/tarot/noblet_tree.html
http://www.fourhares.com/kabalah/alefbeit.html


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