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Tiger
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18/10/2020 12:35 pm  

@shiva

Russ spelled Crowley from the O.T.O.
One of Crowley’s first acts as O.H.O. was to confirm the position of Jones as X

…a glimpse of his vision (Achad) as to the way forward. Quoting a line in the 8th Aethyr of The Vision and the Voice, referring to the “great mother”
For the Great Mother is MAAT the Lady of TRUTH of whom it is prophesied in Liber Legis in a veiled manner, Chapter 3, verse 34 (see comment, Equinox Vol. I, 7 )

But your holy place shall be untouched throughout the centuries: though with fire and sword it be burnt down & shattered, yet an invisible house there standeth, and shall stand until the fall of the Great Equinox; when Hrumachis shall arise and the double-wanded one assume my throne and place. Another prophet shall arise, and bring fresh fever from the skies; another woman shall awake the lust & worship of the Snake; another soul of God and beast shall mingle in the globed priest; another sacrifice shall stain the tomb; another king shall reign; and blessing no longer be poured To the Hawk-headed mystical Lord!
(III:34)

Following him [ Horus ] will arise the Equinox of Ma, the Goddess of Justice, it may be a hundred or ten thousand years from now; for the Computation of Time is not here as There.
(Old comment)

Note the close connection between Leo and Libra in the Tarot, the numbers VIII and XI being interchanged with XI and VIII. There is no violent antithesis as that between Osiris and Horus; Strength will prepare the reign of Justice We should begin already, as I deem, to regard this Justice as the Ideal whose way we should make ready, by virtue of our Force and Fire.
(New comment)
The Incoming of the Aeon of Maat pg XIV


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Michael Staley
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18/10/2020 12:40 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

Okay, we know this Hrumachis scenario. But (co-erect me if I'm wrong) nowhere in AL is Maat or Themis or the feminine deity of the next Aeon mentioned. I guess the holy chosen one made that connection; I remember reading his explanation somewhere, but not where I can remember.

That's so, Shiva. From Crowley's 'New Comment' to AL.III.34:

Hrumachis is the Dawning Sun; he therefore symbolizes any new course of events. The "double-wanded one" is "Thmaist of dual form as Thmais and Thmait", from whom the Greeks derived their Themis, goddess of Justice... He [Thmaist] is the third officer in rank in the Neophyte Ritual of the G∴ D∴, following Horus as Horus follows Osiris. He can then assume the 'throne and place' of the Ruler of the Temple when the 'Equinox of Horus' comes to an end.

(Magical and Philosophical Commentaries on The Book of the Law, ed. Grant & Symonds; 93 Publishing, Montréal, 1974, p.272.)

So no need to "co-erect" you,

 

 

 

 


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dom
 dom
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18/10/2020 1:21 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @christibrany

Achad ... totally decries Aiwass as evil and Crowley as the devil incarnate, leading the world astray.

Yes, that was the tone of it at a certain point. Lightning Bolts flashed in the Supernal Heavens.

"Devil"?   That means someone I blame for my lot.  

https://www.lashtal.com/wiki/Aleister_Crowley_Timeline


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Jamie J Barter
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18/10/2020 7:57 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @tiger

“ Come unto me ! “ Thus luring them, not to the Highest, as might be expected, but to the lowest and most negative realm of the universe, the brink of the Black Abyss.

I find this to be drivelish No further comment.

I wonder if Achad's vehemently dismissive sentiments therefore changed towards Nuit as well (as Aiwass & the "demon devil" Crowley) in his later life, particularly those in his otherwise most beautifully-expressed work 31 Hymns to the Star Goddess?

Yours enquiringly

N Joy


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Shiva
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18/10/2020 10:06 pm  
Posted by: @tiger

Russ spelled Crowley from the O.T.O.

Reuss (with an "e" to make it sound like roost without the "t") expelled Crowley? How can this be? I suppose that fact-act (of expulsion) explain the telegrams ...

image

I suppose it also has to do with  this screenshot I captured from Hot Zones of ... and posted here, in one of these many threads  of glory and deceit, only a few days ago.

image

I forgot to mention that he had been expelled by Reuss. I'll find some place to slip it in. Thank you for connecting the dots. Probably with the 'grams (again).

So ... in the past couple days we have seen how the very beginnings of the A.'.A.'. were staffed by Ghost Adepti who did not exist, and Outer Order officers were the same physical people as the Inner Order Adepti. The Imprimatur of that era laid out the entire nine grades in three triads. No Malkuth. There were two 7=4s (Crowley & Jones). Ten slots filled with an accompanying text proclaiming a fully staffed hierarchy of ten peeps ... who were in fact TWO ADEPTS and ONE LOW-GRADE Hanger-On who went on to be a quitter in this arena. I believe this constitutes the legal definition of both conspiracy. and false advertising.

Then we find out, as if we didn't already know, that Crowley and Reuss had clashed and Baphomet got the ax. Yet, in the end, Reuss's end a short time later, Baphomet emerges as the Outermost Head of the Oriental Templars, even though he had been expelled. But he packed the jury, so to speak, by appointing Achad to Grand Master, so when everybody got together after Reuss' funeral, they simply elected Baphomet, a non-member, to the Seat in the East on the physical plane. I believe this constitutes the legal definition of conspiracy. And maybe lying or make-up.

It is important to post these telegrams and conspiracies (not theories this time) so that innocent people who drive-by will know what they are dealing with when they ask, "How can I find the A.'.A.'.?" Or "I'm thinking of joining the Oriental Templars ..."

Now I'm a great fan of the Curriculum of the A.'.A.'.. It's just this political and personal crap that seems to form the foundation of any group effort. They all seem to need to have at least one core value that is made-up.

Posted by: @tiger

Following him [ Horus ] will arise the Equinox of Ma, the Goddess of Justice, it may be a hundred or ten thousand years from now; for the Computation of Time is not here as There.

Yeah, that's the one. Or one of the ones.

Posted by: @tiger

There is no violent antithesis as that between Osiris and Horus

If we toss out the Aeons and the gods, for a moment at least, plus all the made-up stuff, we find the violent antithesis within the individual as he/she breaks free of parental control. Mama took care of us when we were 7 or less, then dada took control. The individual fledgling-adult then must break free of the family and stand on his/her own. The family does not like this. So there's usually some scuffle. I believe one term for this recurrent phenomena is Teenage Rebellion. It's usually very messy. Some people get through it more easily than others. Some live in mom's basement when they are sixty. Most get free.

Ignant entered his Horus era as an independent youth on a battlefield on the streets of New York City. I was drawn into a battle with the establishment, and the Ferocious Bureau of Intimidation chased me (et al) internationally for three years. I merely cite two examples of the real "Aeon of Horus" within the individual. See Chapter 3 for the rules governing this era or Aeon withing the person ... and the outside reflects this notion. The Aeon of Maat is already out there. It comes about when the individual walks out the other side of The Burning Ground

Ignant and I both walked out intact. So have a lot of other people around here. There are lots of people who already living in Maatland. Where are you? (anyone) ...

If mama's still running your life, you are in deep doo-doo. Your liberation is going to take a while.

If daddy, or some Guru, is calling your shots, you're living in the Asar age, where yang authority governs your acts. Maybe you are the primary yang and you tell others what to do. You, and those like you in this regard, are in the "Old Aeon."

Note: BafometR's efforts to ground Thelema on the physical plane, via a stolen ancient Osirian lineage, established an "Old Aeon"{ system that never functioned properly until the A.'.A.'. was called in to supervise. The Constitution of the Ancient Order of Oriental Templars has absolutely no provision for anyone to exercise independence (Horus), except the OHO, who gets to approve or deny anything. It is an Osirian Male Dictatorship Manifesto.

The point I'm making is that You (anyone) must be out from under any authority to be free of the "Old Aeon." I speak of personal authority, wherein parents or teachers or ministers, or popes, or gurus run your life. We are all subject to the current Establishment's authority, so don't push it.

If you are independent, and living outside (let's say above, because [yes] these zones do have a vertical component) the Horus-Osiris / Horus-Set Hot Zones, and you have no agenda (but you'll be paying attention to staying balanced), with a good relationship with the 61 concept, then you've already entered the Maat phase.

Posted by: @dom

Devil"? That means someone I blame for my lot.

In certain cases this is the usual cop-out or excuse. If folks would just take all these illusionary external beings into themselves, and realize that the Devil is the Id (who can be compared to Hadit), and the Ego is the Anima (who can be compared to Horus, when it's balanced), and the Great Void is simply the Nothing that results from  being balanced in all the spheres and triads, and understand that this is both liberation and the state of Maat . Insert the image of a perfectly balaced feather.

image

Let it first be understood that Equilibrium is the basis of the work." Remember that one? It applies to the foundation, the means of going, and getting there.


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Michael Staley
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18/10/2020 10:41 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

But he packed the jury, so to speak, by appointing Achad to Grand Master, so when everybody got together after Reuss' funeral, they simply elected Baphomet, a non-member, to the Seat in the East on the physical plane.

In one of his letters to Yorke, Achad related how after the death of Reuss he was in contact with Tränker, and in the first instance he offered to support Tränker as the new O.H.O. After Tränker declined Achad's offer, Achad switched his support to  Crowley; the rest, as they say, is history.

It's Reuss that appointed Achad as Grand Master, of North America, in September 1921.

Reuss doesn't appear to have informed others - including Tränker and Achad - of his expulsion of Crowley. It was Crowley's contention that in his last letter from Ruess, Reuss had asked him to be his successor, though he couldn't produce this letter.


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Shiva
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19/10/2020 12:34 am  
Posted by: @michael-staley

he offered to support Tränker

I guess Tranker was the smart one.

Posted by: @michael-staley

It's Reuss that appointed Achad as Grand Master, of North America, in September 1921.

Yes. I think I barely remember that. Thank you for reminding. So Baphomet didn't "stack the deck." It was stacked for him, and he won the title by default. And he wasn't even a member in good standing.

 


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Shiva
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19/10/2020 6:10 am  
Posted by: @michael-staley

It's Reuss that appointed Achad as Grand Master, of North America, in September 1921.

Yes. And now, a hundred years on, we look in the rear-view mirror to see Baphomet's org coming to nothing. He never opened even the first Profess House. Yet Achad, in his North American Dominion, built a Profess House (well, at least a Lodge) in Canada and got things rolling. When Achad left the OTO train, W.T. Smith carried on, right down to Holy-Wood. Then Wolfe took the helm, and finally Parsons. Did I get the lineage straight and in proper order? Did I skip anyone?

I don't count Germer because he moved away to the hills and did not participate in this stuff he regarded as "lesser magic." He was right. It was all Outer Order stuff, the lesser mysteries. As soon as Germer died (synchronized, actually), Aquarius launched the first of the new candidates on her travels with the Sun and Solar Lodge sprung up. Well, that went good for a while, and when "The Masters Bombed The Kaaba," Mcm was right there with his note from Baphomet and his hand out. He ran a cosmic, drunken circus for quite a while, but when he died his Will said, "Elect my successor via democracy."

We may now appreciate O.M.'s description of democracy ("a fatal folly") and laugh aloud, if we get the joke..

So that's the rest of the history, so to speak, and isn't it funny how that lineage survived, in working order, through, what?, six Lodge Masters or O.H.O.s, or Magi, whatever the title they adopted, and it was Achad's lineage.

Yes, I know there are orgs in Australia, and England that derive from Baphomet. They exist today. But I cite the mainstream Achad lineage that liked to drive their cars right up main street, somehow stirring controversy and public spectacles. I marched in that parade. I told you, Achad was my hero. It was easy enough to read his probationer and neophyte work in The Blue Equinox, , and then to follow up with his QBL book. But the last thing we see in that era is Therion handing over the Exam for Zelator, 2=9. The next era begins with a jumper-claim.

I was certainly in that current, because when I hit Yesod I was hurled into the Abyss. Naughty Phoenix, too muchy Fire, not enough Balance. Yes, we will let you live and keep your mind. Oh, thanks. I promise to do it right this next time.

If there is anything I should be noted for in this Thelemic Gallery, it is the fact that that I copy-cated Achad. I don't even remember the details of who did or said what, even after I read them here (in this thread, yet). But I know exactly the states that were encountered, and yes there were zones of insanity. Of course, this crap all got knocked off (me) as soon as the Guru got her hands and me, and thrust me into the Asar-style of training, which includes Do What I Say! Anyway, I always like to push the jump-claimer conspiracy theory. The one that says don't do it. I didn't do it, back then when I was pretending to be Achad. That's probably why I got to live and keep my mind intact.

 Achad never went back to "fill in" the grades he skipped. Crowley did (one one grade). McM never even had grades to go back and fill in. He jump-claimed from Expelled Probationer to Magus whose Word was "OTO" and by god, he got it. One day before he died.

I have to go recover now.

 


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christibrany
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19/10/2020 11:05 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

In certain cases this is the usual cop-out or excuse. If folks would just take all these illusionary external beings into themselves, and realize that the Devil is the Id (who can be compared to Hadit), and the Ego is the Anima (who can be compared to Horus, when it's balanced), and the Great Void is simply the Nothing that results from  being balanced in all the spheres and triads, and understand that this is both liberation and the state of Maat . Insert the image of a perfectly balaced feather.

Yes.

 

 

 

Also I will say in immature? linguistics school terms, REUSS is not as you say. Its not ROOS like you said. auf deutsch its ROYCE 

EY OO reuss 


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christibrany
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19/10/2020 11:07 pm  

Traenker was a big Saturnian.

 

We have a dual Current going on.

 

Fraternus Saturnii and A.:.A.:. 

 


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christibrany
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19/10/2020 11:09 pm  
Posted by: @shiva

So that's the rest of the history, so to speak, and isn't it funny how that lineage survived, in working order, through, what?, six Lodge Masters or O.H.O.s, or Magi, whatever the title they adopted, and it was Achad's lineage.

It did work. I am there and happy .

I just wander and wonder about the LHP saturn bit. 


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Jamie J Barter
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20/10/2020 1:58 am  

Korrection Korner Part 94:

Posted by: @shiva

The Space Age hadn't dawned yet (Sept '57 - Sputmick). I was 8 or 9. 

"Sputnik" was launched in Oct '57.  If you're 81 now, you would have been 19 18 then!

Posted by: @shiva

that's at Kether, which allows what's left of the participant to consciously go beyond the planetary ring-pass-not. For the dataphiles, that would be exactly (more or less) right at 4.000 Hz on your radio dial, and it would correspond to the Outer Van-Allen Radiation Belt (80,000 miles out).

What does all of this mean?  4,000 Hz, that's way off my radio dial (it only gets AM-FM).

Posted by: @shiva

This would be true "Cosmic Consciousness," not that lesser samadhi stuff. 

That wouldn't be the same as a really really deep sleep then?

N Joy


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ignant666
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20/10/2020 2:09 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

4,000 Hz, that's way off my radio dial (it only gets AM-FM).

Perhaps Shiva has left off a zero, or something? Or else he is referring to "Very Low Frequency" radio signals (3-30 kHz, 4,000 Hz = 4 kHz).

Sound-wave-wise (my first though, having a background as a sonic terrorist, and not as a radio tech), 4,000 Hz is a tad below the highest "C" on a piano (4186.009 Hz), but a bit above the highest "B" (3951.066 Hz).


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The HGA of a Duck
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20/10/2020 2:42 am  

The other day he missed a comma in my post which led to him taking it the wrong way ( 😛 ), but in this case I believe he means 4 hz and he is correct in using a full stop ("period") between the 4 and the 000.

Posted by: @shiva

4.000 Hz

He has spoken of this before and he may be onto something (brainwave frequencies), though he also seems to suggest it is all just a "trick".


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ignant666
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20/10/2020 2:56 am  

Oh, jeez, i read and pasted from JB's post and missed that "point". Thanx, Your Drakeness, and apols to Shiva.

"Trick"? We know if brainwaves get to 0 Hz, that means the body will decompose soon. The mind may well go first, a few Hz higher.


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Jamie J Barter
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20/10/2020 3:06 am  
Posted by: @duck

The other day he missed a comma in my post which led to him taking it the wrong way ( 😛 ),

Well he is sometimes a little hypersensitive touchy about being corrected, as I think he has himself conceded, but I suppose it takes all sorts (to make a box of candy the world go round)

Posted by: @duck

but in this case I believe he means 4 hz and he is correct in using a full stop ("period") between the 4 and the 000.

I stand by my original assertion: either number - a 4 followed by a comma or period - would be way off my (or any normal) radio dial.

Posted by: @duck

He has spoken of this before and he may be onto something (brainwave frequencies),

But is he onto something with his "planetary ring-pass-not" (at Kether?) corresponding with the (Outer) Van Allen belt?  If you think so, please be so good as to explain on his behalf...

Posted by: @duck

though he also seems to suggest it is all just a "trick".

I believe his actual term was that it (=everything) was (is) all a (big Spiritual) "Con" was the word.

Wondering over the identity of the neighbouring feline's mother,

N Joy


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The HGA of a Duck
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20/10/2020 3:18 am  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

please be so good as to explain on his behalf

I believe he means if you set the "radio dial" in your brain to 4(.000)Hz, your consciousness will be expanded as far as the "Outer Van-Allen Radiation Belt" and so you will commune with the rest of the universe... or something.

 

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

everything) was (is) all a (big Spiritual) "con"

Something like that. Its all just a trick to get you to notice what's already the case.


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Shiva
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20/10/2020 5:29 am  
Posted by: @christibrany

auf deutsch its ROYCE 

The auf Deutsch lingo is split into wo dialects called "High" and "Low."

Posted by: @christibrany

It did work. I am there and happy .

I was speaking of the OTO line. A.'.A.'. was tucked away inside.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

"Sputnik" was launched in Oct '57.  If you're 81 now, you would have been 19 18 then!

I can't imagine how 18 or 19 got posted by me as 8 or 9.

Yes, I had just turned 18. I will never forget that moment. Sputnik,not the birthday. I was stranding in the radio room of The United States Army Signal Corps in Fort Monmouth, N.J. A captain (no less) rushed over to me (a low-grade grunt) and said, "Listen to this!" We then listened together to Sputnik. Beep. Beep. Beep. Talk about being on the front lines.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

What does all of this mean?  4,000 Hz, that's way off my radio dial (it only gets AM-FM).

4.000 ... not 4,000.  Four cycles per second. The pylon entrance to the Delta brainwave frequency, equivalent to deep sleep, if you're asleep, or nirvana if you're awake, but both the same thing in Spain.

Posted by: @duck

He has spoken of this before

Endlessly. Brainwave Frequencies. You are what they are. The Path is where you do something about it.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Well he is sometimes a little hypersensitive touchy about being corrected, as I think he has himself conceded

It was you that missed the comma, four-eyes, but you caught me good with the 8 or 9. Touchy? Conceded? WTF?  This is where JB, bored, decideds to stir the pot of personas again.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

I stand by my original assertion: either number - a 4 followed by a comma or period - would be way off my (or any normal) radio dia

Yes. We have a diagnostic name and number code for that. In plain English, it means, "He doesn't get it."

Posted by: @duck

so you will commune with the rest of the universe... or something.

The human thought-sphere stops at the outer Van Allen Belt. It also stops internally at 4.0 Hz. Farther out than that, or slower than that, is the desired mystical state. For the tenth time, go to YouTube and search "Ken Wilbur Stops His Brainwaves" and you'll see how it's done.

Farther out, or slower in, is "Liberation," if you can do it. I dunno anything about communing with the universe ... that's a romantic notion, though.

Posted by: @duck

Something like that. Its all just a trick to get you to notice what's already the case.

No, it's all a Lie.

Ignant, why can't we get these people to believe us when we both recommend The Book of lies? These other books fill heads with rubbish, but Lies empties the trash.

 


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Shiva
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20/10/2020 9:50 pm  

Errata
Correction

Somewhere on this thread, or maybe another, I pointed out how the original A.'.A.'. Imprimatur ("Seal of Authenticity, Approval, and Good Housekeeping") spread a few people out over the 3 triads. I just had the opportunity to visit Equinox I, and I found that I was mistaken.

The Bible begins with, "In the Beginning, The Gods created ..."

Thelema began with a subtler phrase. Here is the very first rattle out of the box known as The Equinox I:1 ...

image

I found that highly amusing and wanted to include it here so everyone will remember that, in Thelema, stamps are not real money and you should not be sending them.

There is the "original" Imprimatur, the "authority" that launched everything else ...

image

Please note N.S.F. (Fuller) is listed as 5=6. This was (and remains) a fib.

Eventually, after getting rid of Fuller and adopting Jones (Achad), the full scale Imprimatur came into effect. This one is from The Blue Equinox ...

image

Note that Jones (George Cecil, D.D.S.) is still listed, right up there, apparently as the ranking Adept, even though we (and the then-current audience) know he slipped out of the picture a few years earlier and was never heard from again.

The group Imprimatur finally faded away, and by the time the later Libers came out there was only one name, a single letter in fact ...

N.

Which I assume stands for Nemo. I cannot find an example right now. I'm sure you (anyone) know the N. I mean. Actually, the Baphomet Imprimatur was used in conjunction with the A.'.A.'. one during the transition.

 

 

 

 


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ignant666
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20/10/2020 10:06 pm  

Here is an exhaustive examination of the imprimaturs over the years, and by different claimant groups:

https://blog.thelema.dev/the-imprimatur-of-aa

I think i have seen another version of this too.


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christibrany
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20/10/2020 10:39 pm  

@ignant666

 

This is exactly what I was looking for and I was even making a silly list of Mottoes on my borg phone. Thank you. 


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Michael Staley
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20/10/2020 11:56 pm  

Yes, an interesting document. However, my eye was caught by this:

"In 1936 he [Jones] was officially expelled from the O.T.O. after starting to publicly attack Crowley and Thelema."

This is not accurate. Here is the text of Crowley's expulsion document of 28th November 1936:

We Baphomet O.H.O. having considered for seven years the charges of larceny, fraud and embezzlement preferred against Charles Stansfeld Jones find him guilty on each and every count and We hereby degrade him from all dignities in the Order and We expel him from the Order and We sentence him to undergo the full penalties prescribed by the Statutes of the Order and furthermore to suffer the full penalties incurred by him in breaking his Obligations to Us and to the Order.

And we hereby charge our Acting Deputy Grand Master General in California the Thrice Illustrious Thrice Holy and Thrice Illuminated Frater Wilfred Smith Hon Xº with the promulgation of this judgement and sentence in all proper quarters.

And we hereby charge the Unknown Servitors of the Order with its due execution.

(Source: The Incoming of the Aeon of Maat, 'Prologue', p.37.)

It is clear from this that the reason Jones was expelled had nothing to do with "starting to publicly attack Crowley and Thelema".

 

 

 


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Shiva
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21/10/2020 12:00 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

an exhaustive examination

And said exam tells us my point was already known ...

"Frater N.S.F., John Frederick Charles Fuller, as the Cancellārius. He was only a Probationer 0=0, but in order to serve as the Cancellārius, he received an honorary 5=6."

Well, of course it was known. My point really is that it is not well-known.

Also, I see ...

"George Cecil Jones was no longer involved with A∴A∴ since around 1911, but Crowley still recognized him as the source of instruction."And coming back toward the track of this thread, we see ...

"As far as 1936 (The Equinox of the Gods), this was the governing Triad of A∴A∴, although Charles Stansfeld Jones was no longer active in A∴A∴ and even joined the Roman Catholic Church in 1928. In 1936 he was officially expelled from the O.T.O. after starting to publicly attack Crowley and Thelema."

 

Oh, goodness and the bad boys!  You see what happens when you take the interior sanctuary and set it before the exterior world, and people with titles are in charge of things. The result is always the same. "The interior society retires ..."  Says so in the very first scripture in the very first Equinox.

This is compounded by noting that the A.'.A.'., the posited "interior invisible society," had no dues and no initiation fees, even while hanging out on the physical plane. There was a fee of a guinea or two for the papers, which (although rather expensive) constitutes a fair physical-plane exchange. No karma. No blame. Except maybe for profiteering on the papers. Perhaps this was the original seed that would grow into dues and entrance fees?

Anyway, over the years, the A.'.A.'. faded a bit into the background and the O.T.O. stepped forward. "Come into the secret order where you can see spiritual force being applied to material ends. I will even sell you(the fees and dues, you know, in advance please) the secret of how to conjure up money."

The Old Order is Black. I hold with Mr white who said Heaven is a State of Mind, not some distant place," and with Achad who said something about "The Aeon of Maat arriving." Put those two together and there arises a picture of balanced bliss in a sea of enmity.

"Ignorance is Bliss," they say. Yes. There are two metaphysical ways to make this one thing happen. The first is where the static of duality is reduced below the threshold of consciousness, usually by meditation, or astral projection, or whatever. This is not repression or denial (if it is, then we're takling medical-psycho diagnosis).

The second is transcendence, which is more an idea of going up or over the static. These are merely two descriptions of the same thing. TM vs Thelema vs Theosophy (why do these all start with a T? There's even a T in OTO.  I suspect a conspiracy).

This transcendence comes more naturally with the grades, the degrees. The control of the levels of consciousness, I mean. As advertised in the A.'.A.'..  Certainly not in any group formation where you PAY UP FRONT for your degrees, and no work is required. No, I mean the natural order of progression. If the progression is "forced" by initiation, or practices, or drugs, it's valid. It usually manifests as an ability to induce a transcendental state in a "touch and go" manner.

If we throw in the cycles of a lifetime, we see that these states become permanent as time goes on. Matters of great importance become but blips below the threshold of consciousness. This threshold is merely the floor of the conscious mind. In practical, everyday terms, we just don't care. You know what I'm talking about if you'll just drag up one element that you used to be all wrapped up in - one that is meaningless to you now.

I'm with Achad. Welcome Maat. Hi Hrumachis.

 


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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21/10/2020 9:47 am  
Posted by: @michael-staley

It is clear from this that the reason Jones was expelled had nothing to do with "starting to publicly attack Crowley and Thelema".

Well, when I read this [^] part, I only got a brain tic with "publicly attack." I figured (erroneously) that they knew of some open squabble. However, I have never read or heard anything about Achad acting in such a manner. A public attack would require an instrument, such as a pamphlet, a news article, a loudspeaker, a lecture hall, a youTube video (no, forget that, they didn't even have TV in those days), a radio station, the list is endless, but nothing rings the bell.

As to the expulsion document, written in the high style of the esoteric freemasony king of the hill, I see many lines that might need attention or commentary, but it must wait. I saw Kephra buzz by three hours ago.


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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
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22/10/2020 8:21 pm  
Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Well he is sometimes a little hypersensitive touchy about being corrected, as I think he has himself conceded ...

It was you that missed the comma, four-eyes, but you caught me good with the 8 or 9. ... This is where JB, bored, decides to stir the pot of personas again.

You seem to think that I derive some sort of perverse satisfaction or pleasure from pointing out corrections and have few more important things to do with my time, but this is not the case and I do so quite irrelevant of whom the poster might be: and the fact that you seem to think it's a matter of "catching you (out)" or "stirring it" shows the unhealthy & unbalanced stance you appear to give towards the issue (by comparison ignant666, for example, is absolutely sane in this regard).  But instead of calmly and dispassionately just acknowledging the correction, you prefer to call me "four-eyes" for some reason and divert attention away by extraordinary baseless illusions allusions.

Posted by: @shiva

Touchy? Conceded? WTF? 

I can't remember where you indeed appeared to 'concede' that, and haven't the time to plough back through your multitudinous replies to find out.  It's hardly a big deal though at the time it was reassuring to see you showing a modicum of sense & self-awareness there and it's therefore a pity that you are seeming to retract that now.  The evidence, wherever it may appear, speaks for itself.  Or are you actually suggesting that, like Mary Poppins, you must remain "practically perfect in every way"!?

Posted by: @michael-staley

Here is the text of Crowley's expulsion document of 28th November 1936:

[...] And we hereby charge the Unknown Servitors of the Order with its due execution.

(Source: The Incoming of the Aeon of Maat, 'Prologue', p.37.)

Can this be the first known instance of this "Chaos Magic" phenomenon?!

N Joy


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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Joined: 15 years ago
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22/10/2020 9:30 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

ignant666, for example, is absolutely sane in this regard

Ah, if only dear old Ma had lived to see these words in print; she would have been so reassured.

Wait.... what is this "in this regard" business?!?!

Pistols at dawn, Barter!


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Jamie J Barter
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22/10/2020 10:18 pm  
Posted by: @ignant666

Wait.... what is this "in this regard" business?!?!

In that I said nothing at all about all those other times you're quite clearly absolutely insane! (note to self: insert jocular-faced emoticon here)

Posted by: @ignant666

Pistols at dawn

But your dawn is my "elevenses" (approximately)!

Fellow barkingly yours,

N Joy


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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22/10/2020 10:28 pm  

In addition to the whole tedious time-zone business, unfortunately it is the case that as Ra's bark next sails (your time or mine), i too will be embarked, on a sailboat heading from the NYC area up to Lovecraft Country, and thus unavailable for dueling. My challenge is accordingly withdrawn. My old band are re-uniting to sail the bassplayer's boat to its winter home; it is said there is some chance there will be survivors.


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Posts: 5186
22/10/2020 10:53 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

You seem to think that I derive some sort of perverse satisfaction or pleasure from pointing out corrections and have few more important things to do with my time

No. You only appear in certain time frames, indicating that you might be working to stay alive, or some other reason to not be locked in on a perpetual basis.

I only recently discovered that this @ prefix can be set to ring one's bell. I guess it comes to us from Twitter, or Twittier, but dod you know it can instantly summon Adepts or Demons by merely typing their name?

I saw it happen for the first time when Ignant summoned @... arthure..., then had to correct it by adding "the real," and Lo! La! Arthur appeared .

when people carried pagers, I did not have one. I went through a brief cell-phone period when I was moving (taking ten 1600-mile round trips while hauling heavy physical things in a big trailer). I do not have a cell-con or a phatsmone. I do not engage in Twitting or Facing or Spacing or othe vulgar "social media" (so the Borg conceals its presence). 

My warnings about the dangers of Instant Messaging have largely gone unheeded, except for some addicts to note my peculiarity. My point is: I didn't even know this @ ShT even existed until it was demonstrated for me here on LAShTAL.

So I suppose you, like myself, are not connected into the secret,real-time, inner network of the external society. We both have better things to do with our time.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

you prefer to call me "four-eyes" for some reason

It is a metaphor. People who use seeing spectacles are called "four eyes," because they employ magical instruments to examine the tiny details of things. I, myself, have to put on an extra set of eyes to properly assess the physical plane.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

and divert attention away by extraordinary baseless illusions allusions.

Then let's skip this crap and get back to Achad and The Aeon - a "study in Aeonic Divergence."

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Or are you actually suggesting that, like Mary Poppins, you must remain "practically perfect in every way"!?

Give us all a break here, Norma.

I often shift into the Praemonstrator (Praetermonster?) Mode, which is a form of sarcasm. It is a form of mimicry based on (for example) the lofty and holy lingo of the OHO as he expels Achad from Heaven forevermore. There are actually a few people around here who see it exactly for what it is. Others freak out in one way or another. 

I have learned to not give a shit. Everywhere I have gone in my personal and vocational life, I have always managed to arrange a 50/50 divisive (love-hate) reaction among my associates, my bosses, my (medical) students. It seems like this will not change. Either you (anyone) see what's really being delivered by my often self-effacing with a pointy stick, but usually pompously sarcastic with some sort of a phony accent, delivery .. or you (anyone) get irritated by the energy, or the style, or whatever it is that irritates you.

Posted by: @michael-staley

And we hereby charge the Unknown Servitors of the Order with its due execution.

This is the last line in the expulsion text. It is a form of a curse, not even concealed, although aristocratic communistic words have been overlain upon the words normally used in a magical spell.

You (anyone), do you see see cosmic messengers at war here? If so, then we are not watching cosmic messengers. We are watching boys arguing over who will be King of the Hill and who will be Dunce of the Dung-hill. After a while, Baphomet still had no OTO Order of his own, except on paper, and never would. But Achad's OTO manifested on the physical plane and trotted along for decades ... even though he had been expelled and no longer had his hand on the tiller. 

 


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Jamie J Barter
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Member
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22/10/2020 10:57 pm  

@ignant666 If it's not too far off topic, and quickly:

May your em-bark-ation be a safe one, might you also survive, & bon voyage!

"So mote it be",

N Joy


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ignant666
(@ignant666)
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22/10/2020 11:21 pm  

How kind, and after i just challenged you to a duel!

Humbled in NY


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Shiva
(@shiva)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5186
23/10/2020 2:33 am  
Posted by: @ignant666

Pistols at dawn, Barter!

He doesn't have a pistool. They are ferbidden where he lives. Once upon a time, the king's armoured men were arrow&sword-proofed. People obeyed or died. The crossbow slowed them down, but gunpowder and lead balls brought an end to right-wing knightly powers.

The King said, "Screw this!" and took everybody's pisstols away. Today, if you mention "gun." many Brits have thoughts of cringing and fear. It's a cultural thing.

Posted by: @ignant666

to Lovecraft Country

To shoot tentacled horrors?

 


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Jamie J Barter
(@jamiejbarter)
Member
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Posts: 1624
23/10/2020 11:53 am  
Posted by: @shiva

You only appear in certain time frames, indicating that you might be working to stay alive, or some other reason to not be locked in on a perpetual basis.

I don't have any set times (or days), am currently "working from home", and am capable of posting anytime 24/7 & do so in practice. (Just so you know!)

Posted by: @shiva

I only recently discovered that this @ prefix can be set to ring one's bell. I guess it comes to us from Twitter, or Twittier, but do you know it can instantly summon Adepts or Demons by merely typing their name?

Yes; (even) I knew that.

Posted by: @shiva

People who use seeing spectacles are called "four eyes," because

I see.

Posted by: @shiva
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Or are you actually suggesting that, like Mary Poppins, you must remain "practically perfect in every way"!?

Give us all a break here, Norma.

I often shift into the Praemonstrator (Praetermonster?) Mode, which is a form of sarcasm.

No, that wasn't quite the point I was trying to make, but yes, let's "skip this crap" and move on/ get back.

Posted by: @shiva

There are actually a few people around here who see it exactly for what it is.  Others freak out in one way or another. ... Either you (anyone) see what's really being delivered by my often self-effacing with a pointy stick, but usually pompously sarcastic with some sort of a phony accent, delivery .. or you (anyone) get irritated by the energy, or the style, or whatever it is that irritates you.

I'm not sure that's quite what it was there, either.  For some reason, I'm put in mind of a spot-on assertion made by the sage Kurt Vonnegut in his excellent (nearly all of his books are excellent) novel about the holocaust Mother Night: "We  must be very careful abut who we pretend to be, as one day we might wake up to find out that's who we really ARE". (I paraphrase everso slightly).

Posted by: @shiva

You (anyone), do you see see cosmic messengers at war here? If so, then we are not watching cosmic messengers.

I don't understand... Doesn't "see" mean basically the same thing as "watch"?

Posted by: @shiva

After a while, Baphomet still had no OTO Order of his own, except on paper, and never would. But Achad's OTO manifested on the physical plane and trotted along for decades ... even though he had been expelled and no longer had his hand on the tiller. 

Interesting... Agreed.

O=O,

N Joy


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Tiger
(@tiger)
Member
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Posts: 1607
23/10/2020 12:16 pm  

@ignant666
“ embarked, on a sailboat heading from the NYC area up to Lovecraft Country “

Do you have the Silver Key ?
Quotidian guard on the coast ?
No worries.
The strange bounty you carry will only register as fish in their comprehension of normal space.
Feast !


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Shiva
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 5186
23/10/2020 7:54 pm  
Posted by: @jamiejbarter

Yes; (even) I knew that.

But, my point is, I didn't!  I am beginning to think that I am separated from the bulk of humanity not only by age, but by DNA-differences. I have not been hardwired to digital devices and processes. A lot of people around here, including yourself, are younger than I, but not by a great number, and so they are "iffy" (not to be confused with "ippy") and their souls may be saved. It depends on the level of addiction.

Posted by: @jamiejbarter

I don't understand... Doesn't "see" mean basically the same thing as "watch"?

It (the whole twisted sentence) means we are seeing illusion ... not messengers at all.

 


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