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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/04/2010 8:28 am  

Hi there folks, you may find this amusing...(I know I do)...

I've been reading Aleister Crowley's materiel fairly seriously since 1982...and I only realized last year, that I am one of the Black Brothers...

Oh, well...


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/04/2010 9:58 am  

Greetings!

Welcome to LAShTAL family aldousworp! 😀
It took me quite a while to realize that I am everything! 😉

Regards
Hecate


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/04/2010 1:51 pm  
"aldousworp" wrote:
Hi there folks, you may find this amusing...(I know I do)...

I've been reading Aleister Crowley's materiel fairly seriously since 1982...and I only realized last year, that I am one of the Black Brothers...

Oh, well...

Crowley used that term in a very specific way. You would have to be 7=4 to qualify as a Black Brother.


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sonofthestar
(@sonofthestar)
Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 375
04/04/2010 3:47 pm  

93!

tai said :
" Crowley used that term in a very specific way. You would have to be 7=4 to qualify as a Black Brother."

Yes, one has to be a member of the A .: A.: to actually become that.
This does not mean that there are not many who have become "tools" of
the Black Brethern----those tools not having to be members.
And being a member of "The Left Hand Path"---is something all together
different in my opinion!
One can use those methods and still very much manifest " The Light of Thelema".

93! 93! 93!


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/04/2010 4:00 pm  
"aldousworp" wrote:
Hi there folks, you may find this amusing...(I know I do)...

I've been reading Aleister Crowley's materiel fairly seriously since 1982...and I only realized last year, that I am one of the Black Brothers...

Oh, well...

Hi there aldousworp, and welcome. I have some questions:

a) I am curious to hear - what led you to this point of view (ie. that you are a BB) ? Why do you feel you are a BB ?

b) which definition of the term "Black Brothers" did you find applicable to yourself?

c) is being a BB in your opinion, a "good" thing, or a "bad" thing?

best regards
N


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/04/2010 9:02 pm  

Well, see, originally, I identified the BBs with "the word of sin is restriction," which I thought was a slam on those who didn't have self-permission to do exactly whatever they wanted (which is comfortably different from me, as I have a very long leash).

But then now later I think that the BBs are those who do not want to dissipate, who have a distaste for the ecstatic self-annihilation, who would rather do Bermuda than Nirvana...and I do so want to stay exactly this clot of blood and hair for ever, if I get to vote...very earthbound, I know.

I take it as good news that there is a technical definition, involving membership in the A.A., thus rendering me ineligible...I am now pleased to have posted on here, thank you very much, yes. 😀


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/04/2010 9:39 pm  
"aldousworp" wrote:
I do so want to stay exactly this clot of blood and hair for ever, if I get to vote...very earthbound, I know.

I doubt you can keep your body forever, but science is working on it. You might enjoy Raymond Kurzweill's Fantastic Voyage: Live Long Enough To Live Forever.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/04/2010 11:13 pm  

interesting. I don't recall that Spare was a 7=4 in the A A, but didn't Crowley consider him a Black Brother?


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
04/04/2010 11:50 pm  

Crowley said a lot of things in his life. Doesn't mean anything unless studied in context. Macgregor Mathers, with his sexless marriage to Moina, was probably the archetypal Black Brother for him. A precise definition given in Chapter XII MWT.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
05/04/2010 12:39 am  
"tai" wrote:
"aldousworp" wrote:
I do so want to stay exactly this clot of blood and hair for ever, if I get to vote...very earthbound, I know.

I doubt you can keep your body forever, but science is working on it. You might enjoy Raymond Kurzweill's Fantastic Voyage: Live Long Enough To Live Forever.

Oh. I took the above as an abstract ironic comment.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
05/04/2010 8:47 am  
"tai" wrote:
"aldousworp" wrote:
I do so want to stay exactly this clot of blood and hair for ever, if I get to vote...very earthbound, I know.

I doubt you can keep your body forever, but science is working on it. You might enjoy Raymond Kurzweill's Fantastic Voyage: Live Long Enough To Live Forever.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about...that vein or current, uh-huh.
I wish to preserve my circuit, as it were.
And I had never previously heard that quote from Crowley vs. AOS...and now I have to look around and find my Magick Without Tears...around the house somewhere...very suitable responses, thanks.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
05/04/2010 1:48 pm  
"aldousworp" wrote:
I take it as good news that there is a technical definition, involving membership in the A.A., thus rendering me ineligible...:D

I'm not so sure about this. The AA grades (as I understand the matter) are simply a formal language for describing things which have nothing necessarily to do with "membership" of any kind, although they may do, of course, but the idea has no essential physical component such as an Order or a bunch of people on Earth. The grades are just particular features or stages of initiation, at which certain characteristic ordeals or crises are faced and dealt with in whatever ways, as Crowley saw the matter (when compiling the AA material), based partly on his experience in the GD (upon whose structure it is mostly based) and informed by his subsequent initiations. The essence of the doctrine, as I understand it, is that a BB is one who refuses spiritual grace, and deliberately turns away from "growth", clinging to ego and temporal illusion in an absolute, final sense, and is therefore both doomed and damned by virtue of the simple fact that only Nothing lasts "forever", and only by becoming Nothing is it possible to do so. Being a BB (or indeed an Ipsissimus) does not at all depend upon "membership" of any type of Earthly club of any kind.


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mika
 mika
(@mika)
Member
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 360
05/04/2010 7:47 pm  
"aldousworp" wrote:
Well, see, originally, I identified the BBs with "the word of sin is restriction," which I thought was a slam on those who didn't have self-permission to do exactly whatever they wanted

What, in your opinion, does "self-permission to do exactly whatever [one] wanted" have to do with Thelema? It sounds like you think "Do what thou wilt" means the same thing as "Do what you want". Is that so, or did you mean something different?

"aldousworp" wrote:
But then now later I think that the BBs are those who do not want to dissipate, who have a distaste for the ecstatic self-annihilation, who would rather do Bermuda than Nirvana...

Close, but not quite. With Thelema, there actually is no abstract or absolute difference between choosing Bermuda or Nirvana. The only relevant question is "what is your will"? If it is your will to go to Bermuda but you choose Nirvana, because you convince yourself Nirvana is the "better" or "higher" or "nobler" choice, and Bermuda is the "lesser" or "selfish" or "materialistic" choice, or whatever justifications you tell yourself, then you're just as much on the Black Brother path as if you chose Bermuda when Nirvana is your will.

There is no better or worse path, there's only your will. A person isn't deemed a "Black Brother" because they chose a path that others don't consider worthy or appropriate for a Master, a person is considered a BB when (among other things) they deny their actual will, they deny what is real and replace it with stories they tell themselves about reality.

"aldousworp" wrote:
and I do so want to stay exactly this clot of blood and hair for ever, if I get to vote...very earthbound, I know.

Well, reality doesn't care about what you or I or anyone wants. You don't get to vote on it. The best thing you can do is accept your mortality and get on with your life.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
06/04/2010 2:04 pm  

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

I am a Black Brother of the Left Hand Path too. The term Black Brother comes from the Albigensian Crusade and refers to those who opposed the church in that war. The White Brothers were a mob that went about lynching Jews and Cathars at the time, so I don't know how anybody would want to identify with them in this day and age, being something like the Klu Klux Klan or the SS. Aleister was an establishment wannabe and so perhaps he identified with the church and wanted his 'religion' to be regarded as it's natural next step. I see this as his personal weakness myself.
The term Left Hand Path comes from the Varma Maarg of Tantra, which was heavily vilified by Blavatsky and Co. on the advice of Pro British Raj high caste Indians. It means the direct path and in Indian Tantra there is much less animosity between left and right hand paths that the Black and White Brotherhoods.
I did much of the A.:A.: work but without joining them. Joining an order is not very left hand path really, there is no hierarchy acceptable in it and magickal orders seemed so dependent on pyramid scams, sorry schemes. Perhaps why Austin Spare, who disliked hierarchy, got labelled so early. I did ask if there was a Black Lodge of the A.:A.: that I could join. It seems there isn't but there may be. I got no reply of course. If you can only be a Black Brother as a member of the A.:A.: then where is the Black Lodge then one has to ask?
It is definitely my will to be a Black Brother of the Left Hand Path and whether people believe me or not is of little importance to me.

Love is the law, love under will.

Alex


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
06/04/2010 3:37 pm  

Black, white, yellow? This is most definatly a very grey area 😉


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
06/04/2010 8:50 pm  

Everyone wants to be the badguys without really being bad guys.


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alysa
(@alysa)
Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 655
06/04/2010 9:32 pm  

Might be the 'Black Lodge' of the A.A. is the most secretive . . . .


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
07/04/2010 1:33 am  

It could just as well be hiding in plain sight....


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 Anonymous
Joined: 50 years ago
Posts: 0
07/04/2010 2:29 pm  
"RemeaviThantos" wrote:
Black, white, yellow? This is most definatly a very grey area 😉

Lam would probably agree with this . . . 😉


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 1827
07/04/2010 4:35 pm  

Lam would probably agree with this . . .

LOL!!! Noctifer, you are one of my favorite posters on the forums!


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