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 Anonymous
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93

Last night I had my Minerval initiation - and I don't even know what I'm trying to say, but...

Definately a new found love and appreciation for the O.T.O.

Strange feelings. Emotions. Things I've never experienced before.

So much love!

It's great how things suddenly make a lot more sense now than what they did before. *click*

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
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93!
Well it's nice to hear with all these nutters running around, that someone has something positive to say. Congratulations, I hope things continue to click for you. It's good to here that your experience w/ OTO has been a good one. Best to you.
Q
93, 93/93.


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 Anonymous
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Congratulations! and welcome!


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AMTh
 AMTh
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93 Emilka.

My minerval degree was one of the best experiences of my magickal journey. I will never forget travelling to do the Degree , the nervousness I felt. Its all part of the Ritual, the sensory deprivation, the fear, the excitement, and anxiety all add to the effects of the ritual, some senses are deprived to allow the other senses to open up on a higher plane and receive the teachings of the degree. Its nice to hear of your experience.

Fraternally in LVX

Chris


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kidneyhawk
(@kidneyhawk)
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Emilka-

Welcome to Lashtal. It's perhaps ironic that I'm quite on the opposite side of the fence from the Caliphate OTO but am a Master Mason and have worked the degrees not only as an Initiate but as an Officer in every chair. What Chris writes regarding OTO ceremony I certainly felt around my "Masonic Adventure." The drive, the nerves, hoodwink, senses and symbols. And long after I had "risen" to become Master of my Lodge, that very first Entered Apprentice Degree continued to speak to me. In fact, it still does.

Congratulations and may your experiences continue to open to greater and greater depths!

🙂

Kyle


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 Anonymous
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93 and thank you all for your kind words!
I just read over my initial post, and you can't half tell my mind was somewhere off in the cosmos!

I particularily enjoyed the tactics employed throughout the intiation - certainly surpassed any expectations I had and I certainly look forward to participating in future events!

Apparently they throw some awesome parties as well. >:)


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 Anonymous
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Hi Emilka!

93

Yes, I know *exactly* what you mean. My Minerval actually felt like coming out of a desert, it was amazing 😉 🙂 I was absolutely terrified at the beginning, but somehow I overcame that and it opened out into a sense that I had found something... Absolutely wonderful 🙂

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
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93

Terrifying - definately! I don't think I'd ever been so nervous in my entire life! Well...I lie. I think the time I was just as nervous was when I first approached my local body HQ - where potential sponsors and other members were waiting for my arrival.
I remember knocking on the door thinking 'this is how young girls get kidnapped and found years later only to make newspaper headlines "I was abducted by Cult Members and Impregnated by a Goat"!

But alas! Just like my Minerval, I was pleasantly surprised and very pleased with the results!

And yes, definately found something here - don't know exactly what just yet...but I'm literally dying to find out! 😆

93, 93/93


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 Anonymous
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"Emilka" wrote:
And yes, definately found something here - don't know exactly what just yet...but I'm literally dying to find out! 😆

93, 93/93

Hopefully thats an incorrect use of the term 'literally'... If not, it was good knowing you.


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 Anonymous
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ha! Nevermind. I have a dry sense of humour.


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 Anonymous
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Greetings,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

My Minerval was preformed well, there was fear, and then bewilderment, and then the sense of belonging and the following events, some more subtle than others, that underlined this important step.
I now am among compatriots who fight for freedom and who understand the new mental levels that can be found.
Brothers, Sisters, I must relate a dream. A crowded hall, the window looked on the side of a church were was written in red 'Love is the Law.' I mentioned to a neighbour the happy synchronicity and attempted to join the queue of smiling people entering, but my tousers were falling down, so I didn't. 🙂

Love is the law, love under will.

Frater Kemet.


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 Anonymous
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"Emilka" wrote:
"I was abducted by Cult Members and Impregnated by a Goat"!

But alas! Just like my Minerval, I was pleasantly surprised and very pleased with the results!

One satisfying goat, huh? 😉

It's good to hear you had a good experience with your OTO initiation. I'm hoping to one day live by an OTO body to get to experience group work/activity. The A.'.A.'. delivers with spiritual training but I think a social aspect is important in everyone's development.


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 Anonymous
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"Kemet" wrote:
but my tousers were falling down, so I didn't. 🙂

Quote:
He he - going by my assumptions/guesses of First - I'm sure the less - the better!
Last year I had a dream where I was floating in utero amongst thick, clear matter. In the dream I was A.C. and it wasn't until I found myself in some strange, colosseum-like hall when this was apparent.
I was being watched by eyes I could not see - but I could feel 'their' prescence.
I was an infant and I could see a man in the distance whom I was in love with.
Unfortunately the man and I couldn't embrace like lovers because the unknown eyes were judging and dissaproving of our love - not because it was an infant and grown man - but because it was two males.

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 Anonymous
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"Emilka" wrote:
93

Last night I had my Minerval initiation - and I don't even know what I'm trying to say, but...

Definately a new found love and appreciation for the O.T.O.

Strange feelings. Emotions. Things I've never experienced before.

So much love!

It's great how things suddenly make a lot more sense now than what they did before. *click*

93 93/93

93

Congrats on taking a small step into a much larger world. May you learn much and grow to accomplish your true will. I remember my Minerval being very special as well. Thanks for sharing.

L.V.X.
93,93/93


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 Anonymous
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"kuniggety" wrote:
It's good to hear you had a good experience with your OTO initiation. I'm hoping to one day live by an OTO body to get to experience group work/activity. The A.'.A.'. delivers with spiritual training but I think a social aspect is important in everyone's development.

93 kuniggety!

Definately a satisfying goat - he even mowed the lawn!


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 Anonymous
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I'm sorry, off topic, but I have to laugh at the delicious double-entendre there, Emilka, whether intentional or not!

Ha!

.... 'lawn'....


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Tonight I do Minerval. I'm more excited than afraid.
Anticipation and curiosity for the first step on a long journey.

Jack in the Green
William Blake Lodge


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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"Emilka" wrote:
93

Last night I had my Minerval initiation - and I don't even know what I'm trying to say, but...

Definately a new found love and appreciation for the O.T.O.

Strange feelings. Emotions. Things I've never experienced before.

So much love!

It's great how things suddenly make a lot more sense now than what they did before. *click*

93 93/93

93

Fantastic!!! Congrats on your introduction to the universe.

93,93/93
Daryl 😀


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 Anonymous
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93

I do wish that people would not post information about what happens in various initiations/raisings online. Here we have someone talking in general terms about the effect of Minerval, later we have someone saying that they are shortly to take their Minerval, but by then another person has posted some details about what happens.

Not everyone reads the OTO rituals online (or in books) in advance of taking their degrees. I have avoided doing so for almost 27 years and my recent 1st degree was almost a complete surpise to me, which adds to the value - though if I knew what was going to happen in my life as a result I might have backed off 🙂

You might thinki that everyone knows roughly what happens at these ceremonies, but don't spoil it for those that don't, please.

93 93/93

Steve W


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 Anonymous
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Err, people don't exactly have to read it if they don't want to 😉 There's no harm talking about it here.


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 Anonymous
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The thing is, in this case someone couldn't tell if there was going to be something in the thread that they didn't want to read until they'd read it.

Emilka- Congraulations!
I know what you mean about the uncertainty beforehand- the 'What am I getting myself into?' moments before you knock on the door and it begins.
Talk about a leap of faith....

Have fun with it!


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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93,

So this... Minerval thing. Sounds so... spiffy. Is it a club? Can I join? What kind of club is Minerval, anyway? Anyone who has just joined the Minerval club care to help shine some light for me?

Alright, I just don't think I can post such sarcasm in a positive light. It doesn't become my style, and the few times I've tried completely rubbed everyone the wrong way. So instead, how about a more "intelligent" view...

First, a short review. The Law of the Sphinx: To Know - to Will - To Dare - To Keep Silent.

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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Nice. I'm a 37 y/o practitioner, and it never ceases to amaze me how much blabbing is done by people in 'secret societies'..... I've never joined, never will, and no one I know other than my wife and one friend have any idea what my 'spiritual philosophy' entails. It seems to me that the least enlightened, and the least attained, always manage to have some sort of 'grade' to brag about. Meanwhile I'm 'uninitiated', but have seen satori, samahdi, and my own astral body. And I've had great success with long-term will working and sigil magick. And I STILL have no need to talk to anyone about it. The quieter I (one) am (is), the better it all works.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 

And another thing - I've been reading lately about how FEW people ever make it to the higher degrees of the OTO. And after reading about the ninth degree, I wonder why anyone would bother spending years of their life trying. I just do the ninth degree in my own room once in a while.... It may have been a shocking secret in 190x, but it's just another tantric sex position now...


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 Anonymous
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"jtm" wrote:
I've been reading lately about how FEW people ever make it to the higher degrees of the OTO.

That could be the result of group politics? Not an OTO member myself.
Though, I would say your average aspirant is not doing the ninth degree from the start

My view on orders (in a general sense) is people coming together to create a language to communicate their experiences.


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 Anonymous
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A good point, your view on orders. It's the main reason I wish I had a connection of course, sometimes. The social thing. But I can't find one I'd trust to spend my time on. The web is a blessing and a curse - I can find out about them, and also about how silly they really are (not speaking specifically about anyone there, incl. OTO). If I lived closer to an OTO body I probably would have gotten involved somehow, to some extent, as long as I had a feeling that someone there had higher attainments than I did.

But then I think Laurie Anderson said it best : "language is a virus from outer space". And I think it's LITERALLY true. The Annunaki gave us much of their genetics, but removed the direct psychic communication part. Or at least suppressed it. It still pokes through a little for some people.

There is much to be said about the direct guru-disciple discipline in practices like Buddhism, Yoga, the A.A. (how do you make that 3-dot triangle anyway?). But then again, I wish I could find a guru too. The more self-initiated you become, the more confusing and fearful it can be. My attainments have almost destroyed my marriage/family, and they may yet!


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priestofal
(@priestofal)
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Can anybody tell me if there are any great secrets at the top of any hierarchy that anybody knows of (excluding Xenu, I hope). I feel like I'm always treading around carefully lest I blow somebody's game, when what I really want to do is joyfully expound on whatever I idiotically hold to be true. If I were ever to create a secret society, the secret would be in that everything that it was even possible to combine in a formulation of words would be put up front yet there would still be something left over -- action -- that would be the product or definer of the grades. It may very obviously be seen, perhaps, that I have not advanced the grades for me to even make such a statement. I haven't a clue. But, Jesus, they're only words. Why do we hoard words when the object is to get past the words?

Come on, tell me the secret. A certain combination of letters. Put 'er down. Point!

On a related note, if you had the chance of carving only a few letters into a rock for the sake of transmitting the truth of magick into the future, what would you write? Would you write anything? Would "silence-as-a-virtue" trump all? And how do we know that we don't need that rock right now?

I guess I'm asking about the mode of teaching. If something is obvious then why not point out the obvious at the beginning? Or do you put somebody through a whole lot of rigmarole so that at the end he strikes his head and goes, "Ah! The obvious!"

If somebody were to give me a mirror at the end of my journey and say "The Truth is You," I'd demand my money back. I say give me the mirror at the beginning, tell me that the Truth is Me, and then let me spend my time proving why having that fact in my head is hardly sufficient.

I'd really appreciate a statement as to why I may be off-base on this one.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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"priestofal" wrote:
Can anybody tell me if there are any great secrets at the top of any hierarchy that anybody knows of (excluding Xenu, I hope). .

You can't "blow" a secret you were never entrusted with. Crowley himself had to explain that he hadn't "blown" the secret of the ninth degree of the OTO as he had never received in (in the Book of Lies).

But if anyone thinks that the ninth degree, or any other degree, is just a practice (in the case of the ninth, a tantric sexual position according to an earlier post) there's a point being missed.

Magical secrets come in different types, foe example:

Matters of secrecy, such as the real names of members, which should not be divulged to outsiders.
Matters of understanding given in words. These can be "revealed", but only understood at a particular stage in development.
Matters of trust, where keeping something secret even if many others know it accrues magical power. The second degree in Wicca has such a secret.

If there is a formula or word or instruction which is restricted to people of a certain degree, but you find it out during your own work, so be it. You couldn't know what degree it relates to anyway!


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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93,

I very much agree with your post, sethur. It's a hard thing to do sometimes, know the lines.

If I read something, I generally have no problem letting other people in on it, providing the document is public. If the document was given to me specifically and isn't a public document, I don't generally share.

If I learn something, I keep it to myself. Usually someone will come along whom I'll send a bit of the information their way, so they may take what they will in passing. There is no way I can know what anyone else needs to know or what will benefit them. Thus, the best thing for me is to keep my mouth shut, and at times mention little things here and there.

If I am told something by a Superior, I generally keep it to myself. Once I experience and come to a synthesis of the information, I may use it as above, but in a much more guarded sense than if I were to have figured something out on my own.

In essence, public information is public information. Confidential information is confidential information. If I discover something on my own and wish to make it public, its my business. If I am doing a specific type of assigned Task and discover something, then it is the Work of that Task, which is private, and thus not public business. I think that covers it.

As for secrecy... there really aren't any secrets I don't think. There is some knowledge and what-not that I've been privy to for many years, and I'm constantly using some of that material in order to grow. Its not uncommon to come across something that seemed thoroughly thought over in the past and think "aha". All of the information is out there, it seems. The difference is one's connection to one's Genius which will allow for further exposition.

When it comes to societies, grades and such, I feel that is pretty much personal information. It doesn't seem much harm to admit one's membership to any society, with the exception of the vampires and such that comes along with it. The grades and degrees however should be kept private. I much admire Israel Regardie in that respect, as he was known for the phrase "I am but a Neophyte" even later into his years, though in some of his works he openly admitted to being at least an Adeptus Minor. Guess that about covers it.

93 93/93


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priestofal
(@priestofal)
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"sethur666" wrote:
But if anyone thinks that the ninth degree, or any other degree, is just a practice (in the case of the ninth, a tantric sexual position according to an earlier post) there's a point being missed.

I guess the point being missed is what I'm missing! and I can't even be sure of that. I am assuming, though, that the point being missed can be put into words, and if not put into words, then a million, a billion words could be made to cycle around it. Perhaps this is just me being word-infected and the very thing I have to get past. But suppose that someone wrote a thousand-page book entitled The Point Being Missed and published it for all. Would he be missing the point?

Oi! I think I'm just missing being part of an Order, distance-wise. Thanks, guys, for weathering my rant.


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 Anonymous
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"jtm" wrote:
It's the main reason I wish I had a connection of course, sometimes. The social thing.

The social aspect I find to be very important. A reminder that here, we are not alone. In my opinion, too many people think the opposite, not realizing that simply verbalizing their opinions can attract like minded individuals.

Being in an order can be double edged in the fact that it is easy to limit yourself to your progress in the order.

"language is a virus from outer space"

I can definitely see language as a virus. Sometimes it seems as if the only purpose of an idea is to spread and replicate itself (just like a virus). Everything is from outer space, when you get down to it ; contextually language was originally the utterance of an objects vibrational pattern. Bah, I forgot where I was going with this :X

Oh well, in the words of Connor Oberst(a musician):
"Language just happened, it was never planned, and it's inadequate to explain where I am, in the room of my house where the light's never been, waiting for this day to end" - from the song A Scale, A Mirror and Those Indifferent Clocks


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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"priestofal" wrote:
"sethur666" wrote:
But if anyone thinks that the ninth degree, or any other degree, is just a practice (in the case of the ninth, a tantric sexual position according to an earlier post) there's a point being missed.

I guess the point being missed is what I'm missing! and I can't even be sure of that. I am assuming, though, that the point being missed can be put into words, and if not put into words, then a million, a billion words could be made to cycle around it. Perhaps this is just me being word-infected and the very thing I have to get past. But suppose that someone wrote a thousand-page book entitled The Point Being Missed and published it for all. Would he be missing the point?

Oi! I think I'm just missing being part of an Order, distance-wise. Thanks, guys, for weathering my rant.

93,

Priestofal I know I'm not saying anything new by referencing the Qabalah. We know know what its for &tc.

What I mean by that is, it suits me well in my own perosnal development to run an idea through the Tree. Whatever it is that's bugging me, I place it on the Tree with in the Spehira or Path which best suits which aspect is bugging me. This is used as a starting point, and I Ruach it around from there lol This tends to work well no matter what it is, and eventually it seems like I'll run into the Genius, as the informaiton will become clear in the right spot, under the right light.

I really don't think there are any secrets. The best secrets are placed in plain sight. He that has sight to see, let him see...

93 93/93


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priestofal
(@priestofal)
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"Azidonis" wrote:
... it suits me well in my own perosnal development to run an idea through the Tree. Whatever it is that's bugging me, I place it on the Tree with in the Spehira or Path which best suits which aspect is bugging me. This is used as a starting point, and I Ruach it around from there lol

I like that! Tree as release-valve, considerations bounding through the Tree as they reach their natural equilibrium so that one can walk away refreshed and not wishing to kill someone. 😉

This tends to work well no matter what it is, and eventually it seems like I'll run into the Genius, as the informaiton will become clear in the right spot, under the right light.

Beautiful.

I really don't think there are any secrets. The best secrets are placed in plain sight. He that has sight to see, let him see...

Image of a Roshi grabbing someone by the back of the neck and plunging his head back and forth into a toilet bowl... "You... Are... Enlightened! Get it! Koan! Slap! Whack! Punch! Stupid Americans."


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Azidonis
(@azidonis)
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93,

"priestofal" wrote:
Image of a Roshi grabbing someone by the back of the neck and plunging his head back and forth into a toilet bowl... "You... Are... Enlightened! Get it! Koan! Slap! Whack! Punch! Stupid Americans."

LOL Gives a new menaing to the phrase "praying to the porcelain god"

93 93/93


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 Anonymous
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93

this reminds me of Ramsey Dukes' "Nez" - a Satanic form of Zen, where novices sit in front of television screens all day watching American soap operas while a master watches them carefully, hitting them with a stick if they allow their minds to go blank.....

Anyway, the social thing can be instructive and destructive. People get into very emotional states during ritual, sometimes the way that this spills over into the social part of a meeting can be good, sometimes bad. Arguments over nothing, silly behaviour, that sort of thing.

Of course, just knowing that "you are not alone" is good, but so is the opportunity of actually talking to intelligent people. Can't rely on Lashtal alone for that - until it is made available in pubs.

93 93/93

Steve W


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 Anonymous
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"sethur666" wrote:
But if anyone thinks that the ninth degree, or any other degree, is just a practice (in the case of the ninth, a tantric sexual position according to an earlier post) there's a point being missed.
...
Matters of understanding given in words. These can be "revealed", but only understood at a particular stage in development.

Lots of times, people claim that such-and-such a secret is so ineffable and exalted that it's impossible to put into words. Or even that the attempt would do more harm than good. Many times, though, I wonder if not enough creativity has been devoted to trying to craft the right words.

In the movie The Matrix, Morpheus tells Neo: "Nobody can be told what the Matrix is. You have to find out for yourself" (quote probably not exact). But, umm, what if Morpheus just handed him the script to a movie called The Matrix? Those words seem to do just fine (for the audience)! 🙂

Steve


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priestofal
(@priestofal)
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MUSHIN'S HAND

One day Mushin crept up behind a young monk who was raking in the garden and grabbed him around the throat. He placed one hand in front of the startled monk's face and said, "Quick! Tell me what you see! Is this a hand or more than a hand or less than a hand? Answer correctly and I will let you live!"

The young monk replied fearfully, "Master! I perceive only the Master's hand!"

A low growl emitted from Mushin's throat, after which he spat out: "I will give you one more chance! Now, listen! If this is only my hand before you, then whither has gone your Buddha-nature, which the patriarchs have defined as being always and everywhere apparent?"

"Ah! Ah!," cried the monk, still struggling. "I understand! I can only be aware of more than the Master's hand, since Buddha-nature must be likewise apparent, since always and everywhere existent!"

Mushin put his teeth against the young monk's ear and whispered, "You are inches from death! If Buddha-nature is likewise apparent with my hand, then how are you not thus distinguishing my hand from Buddha-nature? Did not the patriarchs say that Buddha-nature always and everywhere is?

"Ah! Ah!" cried the monk. "I was a fool, for I can only be perceiving Buddha-nature itself, since there can be nothing in all the world except Buddha-nature! Only this! Only this! -- whereupon Mushin clamped his hand over the young monk's face and drove him backwards into the dirt. "Then how was I able to perform that!" laughed Mushin, who then strode away.

Later, after hearing of this incident, an old monk commented, "That Mushin! His hand was less than an inch from that poor monk's eyes and still neither could properly appreciate it. Quick! We must cut off Mushin's hand!"


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priestofal
(@priestofal)
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"SteveCranmer" wrote:
Lots of times, people claim that such-and-such a secret is so ineffable and exalted that it's impossible to put into words. Or even that the attempt would do more harm than good. Many times, though, I wonder if not enough creativity has been devoted to trying to craft the right words.

In the movie The Matrix, Morpheus tells Neo: "Nobody can be told what the Matrix is. You have to find out for yourself" (quote probably not exact). But, umm, what if Morpheus just handed him the script to a movie called The Matrix? Those words seem to do just fine (for the audience)! 🙂

I highly sympathize with what you are saying, Steve, but I can never seem to get over the hump of merely shifting terminology. Instead, I create con-jobs like the above which may suggest that I am some sort of great master (or that Mushin is)... assuming that we are even talking about the same "thing." The alchemists had the same problem, I suspect. The weight of tradition forces me to treat crap like gold... which is nevertheless gold.

Anyway, I hope this still seems relevant to the thread... not so sure.


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 Anonymous
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93 SteveCranmer

I've been thinking that the 'Secret', such as it is, is the opposite- not exalted and ahead but in a way behind us and deep down. But literally ineffable.
I think- and this is simply an hypothesis of course- that any revelation is going to hit the recipiant with the full force of 'But I already knew that!'
The trick is to get to the point where you realise that you already knew it.

And this is not going to happen if we get hung up on exterior ideas and words. All the rituals and words and correspondences- they're the means to an end, not an end in themselves.

The trouble is, humans spot patterns. We've created languages and images and rules and systems, and most of the time this is a survival technique.So trying to retreat from patterns is a bit of a non-starter.

The only thing to do then, is to move forwards. Build up the connections, the correspondences, until they all meld together into one solid mass, where everything relates to everything else so that there are no distinctions any more. Create so many words that the combined sound becomes a white noise blanking out everything- so much meaning that it all becomes meaningless.

I would imagine that then the logical, pattern-finding bits of the mind shut down as there's nothing for them to process any more and stop being a distraction.
And you end up approaching the start of all the ideas from the other side.


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priestofal
(@priestofal)
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"Cuvalwen" wrote:
I think- and this is simply an hypothesis of course- that any revelation is going to hit the recipiant with the full force of 'But I already knew that!' The trick is to get to the point where you realise that you already knew it.

A.C. said something like that, how everything gets driven down to the level of a platitude (wish I had the quote).

A thought-provoking (or perhaps non-thought provoking!) post!


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 Anonymous
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"Cuvalwen" wrote:
Build up the connections, the correspondences, until they all meld together into one solid mass, where everything relates to everything else so that there are no distinctions any more. Create so many words that the combined sound becomes a white noise blanking out everything- so much meaning that it all becomes meaningless.

We're getting far from the original thread, but I'll continue to be, well, a dirty Blackguard, and go with it...

First, do you think it's true that most of the "uncommunicatable secrets" are of this nature? In other words, is the information presented in an initiatory setting designed primarily to build up such "white noise," or is there some kernel of useful information in there? If one devoted 100000 words to secret X, laying out all its content and context, with interleaved prose, poetry, parable, etc., would it be something that a non-initiate could understand and find useful in living life?

I've actually heard something close to this in several places -- and I'm sure that at least one of them was Crowley (MWT or Book 4?). The idea is that there are two ways to reach a transcendent or gnostic state. One is mysticism (eliminating thought directly) and one is magick (inflaming the lower mind with so much thought that it shuts down long enough for the transcendent state to happen).

There are dangers in too much inflaming, though. Might the reputedly high percentage of magicians who suffer mental problems be a result of building up such "white noise" for long periods of time? The first time I read Liber Jugorum, I thought: "Well, here's an instruction manual for methodically driving oneself crazy!"

This reminds me of an essay by Ron Hale-Evans, who is (among other things) an enthusiast of Hermann Hesse's Glass Bead Game, and one of a few people who are attempting to create a "real-world" version of this fictional game. The Game is a way of relating any thing to any other thing with an abstract symbolic language derived from music and mathematics. Hesse's book is, in some sense, a warning against the effete ultra-academic (and world-denying) mindset that the Game Masters developed. They just analyzed; they didn't create anything new! Of course, modern GBG developers like Ron have attempted to keep their real-world Games firmly grounded in reality and to avoid the worst foibles of the book's characters. These Games can be interesting works of art in their own right, if designed in the right way.

Anyway, Ron's essay, called the Anti-GBG, talks about the madness that may come when the mind's penchance for seeking out connections between one thing and another grows in an uncontrollable way. Isn't paranoia just an excessive "seeking of connections" where none are really there?

Sorry to ramble off-topic...

Steve


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priestofal
(@priestofal)
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IN THE "SOMETIMES I SOUND LIKE A COLLEGE PROFESSOR ON CRACK" DEPARTMENT --

Perhaps Secret X (whatever it is) is being preserved only in the sense that one is refraining from using the language of today, which is the language of science. We are loaded up with concepts from the past and may fail to understand that some of them were originally direct references, not something to think about, but something to be used to see. This glorification of the concept may have lead to the obfuscations of religion in which, in an effort to preserve what these concepts originally meant (which was not the point), a central core of meaning was posited (again not the point). Perhaps what is struggling to be born today is a means of returning direct reference to the language that we know. Should this ever happen, it should be possible to collapse other systems that have used direct reference into a single system, enriching us all.

Pretty well exhausted on this issue -- bowing out.


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the_real_simon_iff
(@the_real_simon_iff)
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93!

Maybe it is not so much about language at all? But about doing it? AC had some good analogy with a game of billiards. He (and lots of others) probably knew the "secret" of the game pretty well, but the one perfect shot nonetheless won't come every time you want. So many things simply come to you - it might be arguable if it is better to be prepared as good as possible, or to be tottally unprepared. For me for example it was very good to have hit on everything in my boyhood room with a pair of stick-like devices for years before sitting down on a real drum set the first time, because I knew by then what I did - but I saw people playing for the 1st time ever without knowing what to do, but clearly having IT.

Ve - ry off-topic!

Love=Law
Lutz


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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I've been meaning to get back to this question since I read it days ago, and now I'm composed a reply.

GREAT QUESTION priestofal! It deserves a book, or several!

Bottom line is, the BIG secret is that human potential is endless. Or rather, the potential of consciousness is unlimited. Consciousness is existence. Your story above about Buddha-nature is quite apropos. Allow me to make an analogy with Buddhism. Buddhists are thankful for ('take refuge in')
the buddha, the dharma (law), and the sangha (community). Translated : That enlightenment is possible, that there is a method to attain it, and that there are others on the path both ahead of you and before you.

Buddha = Ipsissimus
Dharma = Thelema
Sangha = The Initiated (within and without any order)

The problem is, this doesn't get anyone very far in and of itself. Great, I still have a lousy job to go to and I have to find food everyday and make a house payment, etc....

But - at any given point in one's life, wherever one is at, there is at least one step one can make to move oneself closer. That step is the 'next concievable secret' for that person. It is only a secret because they haven't realized/understood/practiced it yet. Once they practice it, it makes it possible to understand the 'next conceivable secret' for that person. At a lower level the next secret might just be to eat a better diet. Or to exercise more. At a higher level it may be practice of awareness, or relaxation. Higher, perhaps yoga or meditation. Higher still, astral travel, etc. etc. etc.

So there are MANY secrets. Most of them are the same (or linguistically/culturally equivalent) across traditions. But only the meaning, or the potency of them, is the real secret. Anyone can read the secret rites of any world tradition now. You can even get a book on the Highest Yoga Tantra of Tibetan Buddhism, whether or not HHDL likes it. BUT - your average joe blow on the street would be wasting his time to comprehend it.

For example - one of the most alarming secret initiations that a devotee/sadhu/mystic will experience is samahdi/shamatha/dzogchen, etc... This is a state of blissful open-minded ego-lessness. It is a very real (neurologically/physiologically/psychologically speaking) experience and level of consciousness. Now I could write an essay on how to attain this state through some sort of practice (sex is best, used as the basis for this example). But if the practitioner does not have patience, breath control, autonomic muscle control, disinterest in result, absolute trust in a partner, absolute vulnerability to that partner, motivation based in love, etc. etc. etc, then attainment is just impossible and the practice will be an exercise in futility. IN FACT, attempting the practice can damage the practitioner in a big way - by leading to an obsession with sex or lust, or by destroying a relationship with the partner, etc. etc. etc.

If a practitioner attains something like this, however, the next thing they immediately realize is that they are a NEOPHYTE in the realm of this new attainment. They feel as though they have been allowed up to the next floor of the building, where they are the 'new guy' who doesn't know what he (or she) is doing. But one realizes that this latest attainment is not a goal - it is just the achievement of the last requisite for the work toward the NEXT goal, of which he/she was totally unaware until this attainment. Thus the next work becomes to MAINTAIN and MANAGE the state of samahdi and to do some work within it. This work will be explained and taught with language and figuration specific to knowledge of that advances state of consciousness.

But to one who has never been there, this language, and the teachings, will be meaningless. They may be beautiful as poetry, but it will be like the poetry of Ezra Pound to the average person - inscrutable for any real logic.

For instance, guiding the vibrating prana/kundalini/chi up the spine from the accumulation centers in the pelvis and hands just makes no sense to someone who hasn't felt that vibration. But to someone who has, it is unforgettable.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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And there are many other examples, by the way, including some that are wide open, specifically with AC. Some balk at his use of perverse sexual activities (anal sex, coprophagia, etc...). But that is from a lack of understanding of the point of these practices : anal sex is meant to open (or confirm/enjoy the oppenness) of the muladhara chakra, without which NO further progress is possible. Anal sex is not necessary, but it is one good way for a teacher to be sure of a student's readiness for continued work. Coprophagia confirms the conquering of fear and aversion to transgression. Again, not necessary but it does confirm. The self-initiated can find themselves past many of these rites, which is why at a certain age, many people just don't have any need or use for initiation into an 'order' where they might waste years climbing through grades governed by people who may have not even attained as high as they have.

INTERESTINGLY : I posted a question a while back in the magick forum, asking how many/who has experience advanced states of consciousness through sex magick, tantra, bdsm, etc.... and got very little or nothing in the way of positive responses from anyone. I did get a few 'yes' answers to a simple poll version of the question. Now, here on the AC society home site, I would think that any with some attainment might come forward and say 'hell yeah!', since sex magick is such a huge part of the OTO. But very little. This might mean one of two things :

1 - secrecy is taken very seriously, even on a board with a good amount of anonymity (although I realize a lot of you brits seem to know each other 😉 )

2 - very few really have attained much through sex magick. This would serve to bolster the arguments that very few advance into the higher grades of the OTO. Perhaps most modern first-world humans just don't have the time/inclination/conditioning to be qualified for that work, or maybe we've reached a point where most orders are run mostly by people who are just going through the motions; people who think all the secrets and rituals are just psychological tools for self-improvement, like soft new-age Kabbala.

I am not motivated to join anywhere, because I don't want to have to wonder who has attained what, and what kind of adept is running the show, and whether I already know more than they do.

Nowadays, EVERYTHING you need is available on Amazon.com, from whatever tradition you prefer - yoga, buddhism, thelema, wicca, tantra, etc... I personally recommend studying John C. Lilly, Christopher Hyatt, RA Wilson; and then dig deep into Vajrayana Buddhism. Well, begin with Buddhism 101 first - the 4 noble truths are really the sina qua non for any spiritual advancement IMHO.

Bottom line - learn to tame your mind and your body. Then pay attention to and observe them. Then learn to control them. Your mind is existence, controlling it is controlling existence. You are the buddha and the ipsissimus and Mushin. WAKE UP!

😎


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
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OK one more thing for priestofal - you sound like you're young (sorry if that's wrong, but just pretend it's right for the sake of this post LOL ). In my 20s I used to get frustrated and wonder the same thing. Can I really fly in space and make my own universe and become light, or is this just wasting my time? Should I just focus on my job?

Well, I can tell you that now I know there's a reason why in some cultures, advanced practices are reserved for married people of the age of 40 or higher. One simply needs to conquer (or exhaust) one's lust for result. In the meantime, one must master compassion, moderation, mindfulness; one must conquer fear of anything (especially death); one must 'see the wheels go round and round' as Lennon said. Understand how intricate it all is, and you will start to see hints that 'it' knows you're observing it. Little things, synchronicities etc. Allow your intuition some leeway. Allow nonsense into your mind, it may have a message. Most importantly, believe something differently ridiculous on a regular basis. And believe nothing at all times.

Over time you may forget your lust for the great work, but these lessons and qualities will build. And when they make up your character and you start to wonder about the great work again, you may try an old technique which you once discarded and suddenly see success.

Oh, and another major point - learn to work with the opposite sex. This is alchemy and can be practiced all along the way. Mentally, sexually, socially. If you're gay, then the 'opposite sex' may mean members of the same gender with opposite polar qualities. However, I'll just throw out here that no one's gay. No one's straight. One really must understand the alchemy of gender within and between us all. Learn to at least imaging giving head to the same sex, for instance. If you can't, you're blocking. Stop it.

OK, you're ready now. Go forth and illuminate.


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 Anonymous
Joined: 51 years ago
Posts: 0
 
"the_real_simon_iff " wrote:
Maybe it is not so much about language at all? But about doing it?

That right there is what it is all about.

Language clouds it, hiding away its rays.


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priestofal
(@priestofal)
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Joined: 17 years ago
Posts: 147
 
"jtm" wrote:
OK one more thing for priestofal - you sound like you're young (sorry if that's wrong, but just pretend it's right for the sake of this post LOL ).

Naw, not young, but I did fulfill the odd prophecy that I found myself spouting back when I was seventeen that "Everything I know now will be exactly what I will know thirty years from now, nothing lost, nothing gained." Add three years to that span (which are also the three years since my first serious introduction to Crowley) and that would make me, oh, about twenty years old. 😉

Your advice is thus appreciated and very possibly from the point of view of a twenty-year-old (I should be so lucky!). I only hope that I don't have to wait until I am eighty to get a grip on some of those "later years" recommendations that you made.

🙂 🙂 🙂


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